From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #333 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Tuesday, November 25 1997 Volume 02 : Number 333 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Great Expectations Release ["Planet Tori" ] Angels and Visitations [Wednesday ] Re: Prom date [Nina Miller ] Re: Prom date [Ken Tough ] Tori and catchy music ["Ray Bailey" ] Re: me and a gun [Urucyon@aol.com] Re: Tori and catchy music [Shirley ] Re: Re: queries/couple of questions ["Raven" ] Standing Stone [Urucyon@aol.com] There is Higher Learning yet in my Losing of My Religion [forsythia_in_th] Re: Tori and catchy music [Lady Eorann ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 18:35:35 +0000 From: "Planet Tori" Subject: Great Expectations Release Gday All Toriphiles, OK, Nicki at 20 Century Fox here in Sydney tells us that the film Great Expectations will be released nationally on FEB 5th 1998. For those EWF that live in downtown Sydney, Hoyts are displaying the advance POSTER! We will try to get our hands on a smaller version to scan to our site. There is still NO news of the 2 Soundtracks to the film, but will have an Australian release date for you soon :) RDT Maria and Terry PLANET TORI http://www.geocities.com/~planettori - --------------------------------------------- She's a Beauty Queen, my sweet bean bag in the street - ---------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:22:01 +0100 From: Wednesday Subject: Angels and Visitations Well, *I* love the book... a lot. Actually, I take it with me wherever I go. Nothing makes me laugh more than "Being an experiment upon strictly scientific lines".. And "Murder Mysteries" is the first and only angel-crime-story I`ve ever read.. The only thing that.."disappoints" me is Neil`s lack of..."love".. Oh, well, anyways, I think it`s a great book, and .. so check it out... =) Lisa, the EWF in Norway "Music is the best medicine for everything" Jim Jarmusch Visit Lisa`s Room - ramblings, tapelist, poetry, Tori Amos, Claire Danes, Jeremy Irons, Nicole Blackman, Jim Jarmusch, The State of the Day.. and more junk. http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Stage/8416/lisa.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:44:15 +0000 From: Nina Miller Subject: Re: Prom date > Yes, Tori was a nerd :(, but she's not now!!! I read that she was in > the All These Years bio vol. II. She *was* also voted prom queen, but > she was still a nerd. How is this possible, you say? I don't know, but > some people think nerds are very attractive... and we all know Tori is Tori has said that she wasn't *quite* a nerd....in a UK radio interview in 1994 she said that she used to sit in the middle of the school bus - not at the back with the cool people, but not right at the front with the total nerds either :) Nina *************************************************************************** "Most people would rather be sheep with company than to stand out with antlers on." - -Tori Amos **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 18:27:50 +0000 From: Ken Tough Subject: Re: Prom date Nina Miller wrote: >Tori has said that she wasn't *quite* a nerd....in a UK radio >interview in 1994 she said that she used to sit in the middle of the >school bus - not at the back with the cool people, but not right at >the front with the total nerds either :) Hey, that was the Radio 1 session where she did a couple of live tunes (Cornflake Girl & Pretty Good Year among others, from memory) wasn't it? I'd love to get a transcript or even better, a tape of that. Do you happen to have one? Thanks, - -- " Ken Tough " talking Jesus, riding on the grille Cornwall " blessing every road kill United Kingdom " giving points for good behavior ken@objectech.co.uk " i have been redeemed by the 75mph Savior... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:30:32 PST From: "Ray Bailey" Subject: Tori and catchy music I agree with a lot of what the most recent messages have been saying... I don't really think, though, that Tori EVER really wrote to try to make some chart or anything. I mean, look at when LE was published... was piano music all that popular? Not really. Try Mike and the Mechanics! =) So, I don't think she was ever really in it to please anyone, in that sense. I DO think that she tries to please us (her fans) by opening herself to us, but that's another topic! ;) My $.02! BKman, Ray ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 16:54:38 -0500 (EST) From: Urucyon@aol.com Subject: Re: me and a gun In a message dated 97-11-24 02:33:02 EST, you write: << it's positively disgusting to hear from a good portion of all you that tori's rape wasn't a real "rape". That remark reminds me, in a painful way, who is calling the shots in the U.S., and arguably, the world: men. It's attitudes of such that make it diffucult for many of our sisters to make rape a serious issue in the media, and the courts. >> even though i'm a man, i'm afraid i have to agree with you. the country does in general have a poor attitude concerning rape issues. a lot of men just can't relate to how it feels to be a victim of a sex crime, or any kind of terrible assault for that matter. people tend not to take a victim seriously unless she practically stumbles into the police station bleeding, beaten, and halfway dead- as if the emotional pain that a woman will have to live with forever is insignificant. i think attitudes are changing though, very, very slowly, but they are changing. that's evident in the amount of new laws being written to punish perpetrators of sex crimes, and the amount of programs like RAINN that help victims deal with their assults. don't worry, we're getting there. sooner rather than later i hope. - - my thoughts Bryan Sniffen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:55:15 -0800 From: Shirley Subject: Re: Tori and catchy music Actually, I think with her very first album, Y Kant Tori Read, she was trying to please everybody else around her, rather than herself. That's probably why it was such a "flop" Little Earthquakes is the album when she started writing for herself toodles, shirl At 12:30 PM 11/24/97 PST, Ray Bailey wrote: >I agree with a lot of what the most recent messages have been saying... >I don't really think, though, that Tori EVER really wrote to try to make >some chart or anything. I mean, look at when LE was published... was >piano music all that popular? Not really. Try Mike and the Mechanics! >=) So, I don't think she was ever really in it to please anyone, in >that >sense. I DO think that she tries to please us (her fans) by opening >herself to us, but that's another topic! ;) >My $.02! > >BKman, >Ray > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:04:44 -0700 From: "Raven" Subject: Re: Re: queries/couple of questions >I don't remember what the article was called, but I -do- remember what Tori >said. And I don't think she'd make a specific reference to a rape, >especially hers, if a rape didn't actually happen... > >Andrew And who are we to saw that "rape" only exsists as something physical? Maybe people who experience "close to physical rape" (myself included) know that during the time when you "could" be raped physically, the attacker usually does things that can emotionally and mentally "rape" you and leave you scared for a LONG time. Note that in Baker Baker Tori sings about running from Eric "in all kinds of ways", referring that it wasn't just the physical part that she was afraid of. Raven Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:29:48 -0700 From: "Raven" Subject: Re: Re: Prom date >just heard from somebody in England who says he lives near her boyfriend that >Tori is really small, like 5' 2". Anybody else seen her? > I met her after a concert once. I'm 5'2" and it was really weird cause she was so tiny. My height but just so petite looking! She looked so fragile too but I'm guessing mainly she was just really tired. :) I play piano and have small hands. I don't understand how she does some of the stuff she does with such small hands!! Goddess knows I've tried but my fingers say no way! Raven Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:59:20 -0500 (EST) From: Urucyon@aol.com Subject: Standing Stone by the way, straying away from Tori for a moment, did anyone else happen to see "Standing Stone" on A&E last night, performed by the London Symphony Orchestra? it was 100% excellent! it was composed by Paul McCartney- he can't read a lick of sheet music, so i don't know how he managed to pull it off, but it was genious. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:08:57 -0600 From: forsythia_in_the_spam@juno.com (DUST A BUNNY) Subject: There is Higher Learning yet in my Losing of My Religion Hello you little waxen ears with athletes foot, Sorry, just had to do it since the little sore in my mouth is attacking me. The mothership burns it on my lack of a certain nutritional value. Little did she know it burned when I urinated too. No, not really. That was my kitty with the urinary tract infection. Anywho, I just have this one question? WHAT DOES TORI SING ON THE HIGHER LEARNING SOUNDTRACK? I know Butterfly is on it, but is Losing my Religion? I don't think the religion on is on there, but it was played while the chick was getting raped. Hm, kinda scary, since Tori was "raped" (I, myself, consider it rape, she was violated, wasn't she?) as well. Anywho, my mind wanders, sorry. All I know is the Higher Learning Soundtrack is only 99 cents plus shipping and handling. I will get it anyhow. Well if anyone has the time, please answer me. Take care. Buh-bye. LORD OF THE SPAM "The biggest myth about fame is that it's gonna take away the pain." - -Tori Amos R.I.P. MICHAEL HUTCHENCE ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:22:05 -0500 (EST) From: Lady Eorann Subject: Re: Tori and catchy music On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Ray Bailey wrote: > I don't really think, though, that Tori EVER really wrote to try to make > some chart or anything. I mean, look at when LE was published... was > piano music all that popular? Not really. Try Mike and the Mechanics! > =) So, I don't think she was ever really in it to please anyone, in > that > sense. I DO think that she tries to please us (her fans) by opening > herself to us, but that's another topic! ;) Okay, I think I was the first one to say something about Tori evolving to the point where she no longer cares about charts or things like that. Let me clear up what I was talking about. I wasn't implying that she was going that route (in fact, I think it's safe to say she tried that years before LE with Y Kant Tori Read, and she failed at it). I was saying that perhaps at first she was more keen on trying to create an image, or something more marketable... Not totally sell out, because I don't think LE is what you could call typical mainstream material. But I'm sure that like any artist she wanted her music to get some amount of airplay, etc. Whereas later in her career she's come to terms with the fact that airplay is not what she's out there for. I don't think I'm expressing myself properly. :| Argh. Let me try again. Tori has always done something that is *not* mainstream. To begin with, she's put much of herself in her music (which is something most musicians don't ever do--I mean, do you honestly believe Mariah Carey when she sings about always being her baby or whatever? No offense to anyone on here who likes Mariah Carey.). But somehow I feel that especially with BfP she almost kind of gave a symbolic finger to the record company in particular (I remember reading a quote where she said that BfP was not about the record company. It was about herself and us: the fans--she said this at a concert... I wish I could remember where I read this... it was on someone's webpage that I saw it most recently--ARGH! I hate it when my brain is on the blink!), saying: "This is not about you. This is about me and my girls and my EWFs." Whereas LE was not so way out there. Yes it was pushing the boundaries of "pop" music (still don't understand why she's classified as Pop or Rock or even Alternative, for that matter.), but then she pushed the same boundaries farther and farther with each album, until she sort of fell outside the acknowledged boundaries and just shrugged and said, well, here I am, and it feels great! Anyway, I hope some of this makes sense to someone out there... Man, I can't wait for the semester to be over! :} Bright Blessings and Lollipops! Yvette. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Definitions are limiting. Limitations are deadening. To limit oneself is a kind of suicide. To limit another is a kind of murder. To limit poetry is a Hiroshima of the human spirit." --Tom Robbins ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:42:41 -0800 From: autumn Subject: Re: There is Higher Learning yet in my Losing of My Religion Hello... >WHAT DOES TORI SING ON THE HIGHER LEARNING SOUNDTRACK? She sings Butterfly and Losing my religion. Actually, the soundtrack is a really unusual mix of music... bye! autumn ___________________________________________ i am a work in progress dressed in the fabric of a world unfolding offering me intricate patterns of questions rhythms that never come clean and strengths that you still haven't seen -ani difranco "the slant" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:26:39 -0500 (EST) From: Lady Eorann Subject: Re: There is Higher Learning yet in my Losing of My Religion On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, DUST A BUNNY wrote: > WHAT DOES TORI SING ON THE HIGHER LEARNING SOUNDTRACK? She's got two songs on the HL soundtrack: "Butterfly" and "Losing My Religion" (and they used Butterfly quite a bit in the film... I remember it striking me--and it kind of hurt, come to think of it...eek.) It's also got a song (maybe two, I can't recall) by Liz Phair, which is pretty cool too... :) BTW, hope that sore gets better real soon... Oh, one more thing... do you like Veruca Salt? (I was just noticing your address, that's all) :) Bright Blessings and Lollipops! Yvette. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Definitions are limiting. Limitations are deadening. To limit oneself is a kind of suicide. To limit another is a kind of murder. To limit poetry is a Hiroshima of the human spirit." --Tom Robbins ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:45:17 -0500 (EST) From: Elizabeth Lauren Perry Subject: Re: There is Higher Learning yet in my Losing of My Religion >Hello you little waxen ears with athletes foot, > Sorry, just had to do it since the little sore in my mouth is >attacking me. The mothership burns it on my lack of a certain nutritional >value. Little did she know it burned when I urinated too. No, not >really. That was my kitty with the urinary tract infection. > Anywho, I just have this one question? > >WHAT DOES TORI SING ON THE HIGHER LEARNING SOUNDTRACK? Butterfly and Losing My Religion is on the soundtrack. Elizabeth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:54:57 -0500 (EST) From: JEDAS1@aol.com Subject: Re: There is Higher Learning yet in my Losing of My Religion In a message dated 11/24/97 8:11:38 PM, forsythia_in_the_spam@juno.com wrote: <> Yes it's on the Higher Learning Soundtrack. I hate the word "chick" julie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:25:05 -0500 (EST) From: LEQ@aol.com Subject: Re: a lil' fiona question.... Don't be so negative about Fiona Apple. For one thing, this as NOTHING to do with tori. Second, i'm not trying to start anything just wanted to voice my opinion since you (marissa) felt the need to. If this rude comment is about the poster rape child thing, then i think you need to move on. No one really knows what she meant by that. Maybe on a large scale, she's just jealous of Tori, who wouldn't be! Anyway, Fiona is a vegetarian and i respect her for that. She is currently helping PETA against butterball meats. Anyway! Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 00:29:28 -0500 From: "Michael L. Whitehead" Subject: Special Offer From RAINN & The Dent My web site, A Dent In The Tori Amos Net Universe, has joined with RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network) to offer to you a special edition Tori Amos/RAINN lithograph. This black & white print was created by artist William Fuentes. It is imprinted with Tori's signature, is 20'' x 24'' and printed on high quality, acid-free paper. Besides receiving a beautiful Tori collectible, you will be supporting the invaluable work of RAINN, the organization that Tori founded in 1994. The prints are $19.95 plus shipping and handling. You can see the print and read more details at my web site. You can order the print using a credit card by phone using an 800 number, or through an online order form at my site. You can also order the print by snail mail if you want to pay by check or money order. People who know me or who are familiar with my web site know that I fully support RAINN. Debbie Andrews, who is the Executive Director, contacted me about this fund raising effort, and I agreed to help. They are really a great group of people, and you can be assured that all the money from your purchase will be used to fund RAINN's vital activities. I have included below a letter from Debbie that explains this offer in more detail. If you are interested in a nice Tori item and want to help RAINN, please go to the Dent and order this litho! You can even order more than one and have them sent to different addresses as a gift, complete with a personal note to the people receiving it as a gift. Everyone says that the holidays are too commercialized. This is a way to not only get a great gift, but really do something that really counts for the holidays. Thanks for listening. Yours in Tori, Mikewhy http://www.aye.net/~mikewhy/toriamos.html TO: Ears With Feet FROM: Debbie Andrews RE: A Special Notice from RAINN Three short years ago, Tori co-founded RAINN. I couldn't let this landmark anniversary go by without a heartfelt thanks to all of you who have been there for us over the years. You have helped make Tori's vision -- support for sexual assault survivors all day, every day - a reality. Most importantly is what we have accomplished with your support: RAINN has helped more than 170,000 survivors in those three years, and the hotline continues to be there for rape and incest survivors. To mark the three-year anniversary of RAINN's founding and this year's cK Calvin Klein Unlock the Silence campaign, RAINN is producing a limited run of a spectacular pencil sketch of Tori. Because of the part Tori's fans have played in the life of RAINN, we wanted you to be the first to know. I invite you to place an order and be among the first to have this special edition RAINN collectible. 100% of the proceeds from the sale of each print you purchase will support the RAINN hotline. Many thanks to William Fuentes for capturing the essence of Tori in this wonderful sketch which he has generously donated to RAINN. Thanks also to those of you who have supported RAINN in other ways and helped make it a success. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. Whitehead mikewhy@iglou.com My Dent In The Tori Amos Net Universe => http://www.aye.net/~mikewhy/toriamos.html "Moses I know, I know you've seen fire, but you've never seen fire until you've seen Pele blow..." Tori Amos - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:45:16 -0800 From: Shirley Subject: Me and a Gun - Liberal definitions? This post isn't directly related to Tori, but to the language and attitudes of the posts that have been made recently... A lot of posts have been made about whether Tori was or was not raped. I agree with a lot of the opinions that have been aired; that yes, we are in a patriarichal society, and yes, many have a poor attitude toward rape as a result. For example: "she was asking for it", or "she shouldn't have dressed like that." It's comments like that that disgust me grossly. On the other hand, I do disagree with the liberal use of language. There is a line between sexual assault and sexual assault taken to the extremes of rape. They are not the same thing, as close as they are. I'm sure that someone who has been sexually assaulted can empathize with someone who has been raped, because it is the same type of violation. But, I think it is wrong to stretch definitions in such a way that it is becomes hard to discern what the original intent was. Because, if you stretch it on one thing, you can stretch it on another, and that can lead to gross misperceptions. Let's say someone makes a sexist joke. Sexist joke? Why not call it sexual harassment? Wait, isn't sexual harassment the same thing as sexual assault? But, if you take sexual assault one step further, isn't it rape? I'm not condoning sexist jokes - I am merely pointing out what misperceptions the misuse of language can lead to. I am sure Tori empathizes fully with those who have been sexually violated. I don't doubt her sincerity at all. I think it's wonderful that "Me and a Gun" has helped so many people, including herself, overcome their past experiences. On the other hand, many people have said, that even if she wasn't raped, she was still "raped." Of course, it isn't our business whether or not the deed was committed, the fact that she was violated is enough. I don't think Tori lied in her song. She wrote it to overcome her past experiences, and if she used some creativity or symbolism or what not, she is entirely entitled to as an artist. Someone wrote: << it's positively disgusting to hear from a good portion of all you that tori's rape wasn't a real "rape".... ... It's attitudes of such that make it diffucult for many of our sisters to make rape a serious issue in the media, and the courts. >> I tend to disagree. It's the women who cry wolf, unfortunately, or rather, sexual harassment/assault, at the slightest provocation or no provocation that make the case of women who have really been sexually assaulted more difficult. toodles, shirl ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #333 *************************************