From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #264 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Saturday, September 20 1997 Volume 02 : Number 264 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: OkToriFest question [Lu101@aol.com] Re: Tori on new comp. CD [Richard Handal ] Re: Happy Worker ["Ashre, Ashre" ] Re: Tori on new comp. CD [dee zed stroke zero one five ] Re: Crucify [Douglas Hitzel ] Re: Tori On Religion!! [dee zed stroke zero one five ] Re: Happy Worker [MsSakamoto@aol.com] Re: Happy Worker [RAINN18@aol.com] Re: Tori on new comp. CD ["Ray Bailey" ] Re: What? [Jenn0312@aol.com] Re: What? [Jenn0312@aol.com] Tori CDs to buy... [Mike Gray ] CDs for trade [Lance Windom ] Re: Tori's House ["Karen, Goddess of the Groove" ] Re: Tori's House ["Karen, Goddess of the Groove" ] happy worker [Jeannie Cook ] Re: Tori's House ["Karen, Goddess of the Groove" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 01:15:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Lu101@aol.com Subject: Re: OkToriFest question could someone fill me in on what the torifest is and when it is and where it is?what is the torifest?!?!?!?!?! - -alexa ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 03:13:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: Tori on new comp. CD K. Fischer informed us: > When I was in Tower today I saw a CD on one of the listening > stations that features a radio broadcast of Tori singing Hey Jupiter. The > CD was put together to benefit breast cancer research. It is a collection > of on-air performances by various artists. Ahh, and so it is. Many thanks to K. Fischer for the heads up on this! I went to Tower Records on my break a few hours ago, and picked up a copy. It had a sale price on it of $15.99 instead of $17.99. The discographical information is-- Title: WLIR-KIVES Pulls the Plug! Label and issue number: Restaurant Records 1003-2 It says the Tori version of Hey Jupiter that's on it was recorded on February 5, 1996. I find it a little odd that with all the information about the promo tour and everything else last year that I never saw anything about this New York City area radio show, but Tori was not far from WLIR that day for a show on WNEW in New York, so it certainly all adds up. The New York Area Music Radio Guide says that 92.7 WLIR is an Adult Contemporary format station out of Garden City, New York, and that they are carried in simulcast on 98.5 WDRE, which is out of Westhampton, New York. Now, Tori did a radio program on WDRE on January 31 of last year, so all this strikes a bit of curiosity in me. (But I won't bore anyone else with more on that for now.) Anyhow, the other titles on this CD (most recorded at WLIR's studio) are: Jewel: Who Will Save Your Soul, from VH1 Crossroads, August 11, 1995 Dishwalla: Counting Blue Cars, from May 2, 1996 Leah Andreone: It's Alright, It's OK, from September 4, 1996 Joan Osborne: One of Us, and Pensacola, from October 19, 1995 Dog's Eye View: Everything Falls Apart, from September 10, 1996 No Doubt: Excuse Me Mr., from January 23, 1996 Duncan Sheik: Barely Breathing, no date given Squeeze: Pulling Mussels from the Shell, no date given There are *complete* Real Audio files of *all* the songs on this record at: http://www.ent.net/wlirkive.htm You can also check out the station's web site at: http://www.wlir.com/index.htm As K. Fischer told us, part of the proceeds from the sales of this album are are going to a breast cancer organization, Breast Cancer Grassroots Organizations for a Unified Purpose . Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 05:07:24 PDT From: "Ashre, Ashre" Subject: Re: Happy Worker I have the Toys Soundtrack. I love the Happy Workers song. I also like the Mirror song. ATTENTION: To anyone who doesn't have it, it is deffenitely worth buying!!!!!! Go ahead, go get it (you know you want to)!!!!!!! If you haven't seen the movie "Toys" you should see it and listen for Tori. "Toodles, Mr. Jim" - ----Original Message Follows---- I just bought the promo copy of the Toys soundtrack with Tori's Happy Worker song on there. Does anyone else have this?? I like the song I dont know why Tori was so dissatisfied with it. Its funky :) angie Don't loose your cracker jacks, Staci ``````````vVv``````-ICICLE-``````vVv`````````` "He's in my pumkin PJ's." ```vVv`````````-TORI AMOS-`````````vVv``` Ashre8@hotmail.com ~*-Staci-*~ the *proud* owner and creator of: _*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Ashre *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/6271 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:05:59 -0400 From: dee zed stroke zero one five Subject: Re: Tori on new comp. CD also sprach Richard Handal: >It says the Tori version of Hey Jupiter that's on it was recorded on >February 5, 1996. I find it a little odd that with all the information >about the promo tour and everything else last year that I never saw >anything about this New York City area radio show, it's correct. in addition to "hey jupiter", tori also played "toodles mr. jim", "thunder road" (the springsteen song), "doughnut song" and the now-infamous "gary's girl" -- a slight adjustment to "cornflake girl" which transformed it into an ode to the deejay who hosted tori for this appearance. mikewhy's index lists it: . >The New York Area Music Radio Guide >says that 92.7 WLIR is an Adult Contemporary format station out of Garden >City, New York, and that they are carried in simulcast on 98.5 WDRE, which >is out of Westhampton, New York. once upon a time, wlir was a good radio station on long island -- they were one of the first stations to get into what eventually turned into the "modern rock" format. eventually, they got slick and, sometime along the way, turned into wdre. more recently, in what was probably a marketing move, they changed their call letters back to wlir. the wdre call letters were retained for a translator station farther out on the island. >Now, Tori did a radio program on WDRE on >January 31 of last year, so all this strikes a bit of curiosity in me. are you sure about that date? the only thing i remember happening on 1/31/96 was the world cafe interview (which i never figured out if it was live or taped). woj ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 09:12:31 -0400 From: dee zed stroke zero one five Subject: Re: OkToriFest alexa asks: >could someone fill me in on what the torifest is and when it is and where it >is?what is the torifest?!?!?!?!?! it's a yearly gathering of tori amos fans hosted the really-deep-thoughts fanzine folks (richard and missy caldwell) at their home in columbus, ohio. also sprach Charlie Poole: >For more information check out the web page at >http://www.concentric.net/~rdtzine unfortunately, they haven't added any information about oktorifest to the web site yet. so, the best way to get information about attending and directions is to mail them at rdtzine@concentric.net. woj ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:12:30 -0500 From: Douglas Hitzel Subject: Re: Crucify Anything UtP or LE is good. Doug ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:41:08 -0400 From: dee zed stroke zero one five Subject: Re: Tori On Religion!! also sprach rain: >well from what i understand, tori believes in a god but she dissagrees >with many aspects of christianity. i think that the word "believe" is too charged a word to use in tori's case. the focus of the big three religions (christianity, judaism, islam) is faith -- belief in a specific god and whatever specific activities (past and planned) are attributed to him. it's fairly evident that tori is a very spiritual person, so i'd be more inclined to think that she is more likely to recognize and co-exist with divinity rather than *believe* in it. also sprach violet: >She also believes that Jesus had a sexual relationship with *and a child >by* Mary Magdalene and that, in a literal historical sense, the "Holy >Grail" actually was Mary Magdalene's womb carrying the child (the blood) of >Christ. So she believes that there are direct blood descendents of Jesus. richard shindell has written a song titled "the ballad of mary magdalene" which deals with this subject in a really lovely way. it can be found on richard's album _blue divide_ on shanachie records. here are the lyrics. get a sniffle rag before reading them though. The Ballad of Mary Magdalene Written by Richard Shindell (ASCAP) My name is Mary Magdalene I come from Palestine Please excuse these rags I'm in But I've fallen on hard times Long ago I had my work When I was in my prime But I gave it up, and all for love It was his career or mine Jesus loved me, this I know But why on earth did I ever let him go? He was always faithful, he was always kind But he walked off with this heart of mine But I remember nights we spent Whispering our creed Our rituals, our sacrament The stars our canopy There beneath an olive tree We'd offer up our plea God's creation innocent His arms surrounding me Jesus loved me, this I know But why on earth did he ever have to go? He was always faithful, he was always kind But he walked off with this heart of mine A love like this will come but once This I do believe And I'll not see his like again As I live and breathe And I'm sorry if I might offend But I will never see How the tenderness I shared with him Became a heresy Jesus loved me, this I know But why on earth did I ever let him go? He was always faithful, he was always kind But he walked off with this heart of mine for more info about richard's music, check out >She's not alone in this belief -- there is quite a bit of fascinating >historical study that's been done on this (the leading book on the subject, >and one of Tori's favorites, is "Holy Blood, Holy Grail". I would give the >name of the author, but I'm too lazy to go hunt for it on the shelf at the >moment. But it's very good.) _holy blood, holy grail_ by michael baigent, richard leigh and henry lincoln. i have not read this, but have read other words by baigent and leigh. i'm not knowledgable enough about these things (the history or early christianity, hewbrew culture around the beginning of the common era, etc.) to make a judgement about their scholarship, but i can say that those whose scholarship i know is respected usually do not hold baigent and leigh in high esteem, so tread carefully when reading their stuff and cross-check against other works. that said, i don't think the yeshua/mary magdalene liasion is that far-fetched. the jesus of history was most certainly not the jesus that matt, mark, luke and john portray in the gospels. trouble is, we just do not have enough independant sources from that time period which refer to jesus to dry any conclusions. there are a number of popular non-fictions books about this subject. if anyone is interested in a reading list, let me know and i'll see what i can find on the bookshelves. this is the first i've heard that tori liked _holy blood, holy grail_ though. interesting. has she mentioned it in any interviews? >Something that I'm not sure Tori is aware of and that I've always meant to >talk to her about is the fact that there *is* a Christian Goddess. This >female aspect of the Christian trinity was stamped out by the patriarchal >fathers centuries ago, changing Her into the "dove" that is the Holy >Spirit. i don't disagree with you about this violet, but i do want to put what you have said into perspective for others who may not know much about this kind of thing. early christianity was made up of a myriad number of groups with wide variation in how they interpreted jesus' words. some groups (most notably, some of the what we now call "gnostics") did believe in sophia. others did not. over the 4 or 5 centuries after jesus' death, there was much heated haggling and arguing about what constituted "proper" christianity, mostly spurned on by the mainstream churches in urban centers. eventually, the core christian beliefs came to be what they are now, through the efforts of bishops like ignatius and athanasius. please note that the bishops did not "stamp out" established churches where services honoring sophia were conducted. rather they discreditted groups of people who, the bishops felt, misinterpreted jesus' words. it was not terribly difficult to do so since these groups tended to be on the fringe, small, and hermitic. "mainstream" christianity, at the time, was based in the cities and villages, and much more appealling to the average joe. (amazing how much some things have not changed since way back then, huh?) also, it's worth mentioning that these struggles were not aimed only at curtailing sophia -- there were other "heresies" which were targetted as well. okay, ehough for now. woj ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:11:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Jenn0312@aol.com Subject: Tori CD's to Buy << >Are there any other CDs out there that >you guys would recommend buying? >> I have a suggestion ~ buy *any* tori cd you can get your hands on! they are *all* worth the price! (of course..they're all tori!) the "winter" single is probably my fav, with the "talula" single including "frog on my toe" being close behind. i'm proud to say i own every tori single from here in the us (except for one pesky "talula" single that i have never seen, but i know it's out there somewhere...), and i do not regret buying a single one! good luck on your quest! torihugs, ~*jenn*~ ~*:~*:~*~:*:~*:~*:~*:~*:~*:~*:~*:~*:~*:~*:~*:~*:~*~:*:~*:~*:~*:~*:~*:~*:~*:~*: ~*:~*:~* "We are all faeries living underneath a lily pad" ~ *Tori* The Faerie Ring has undergone a facelift! http://members.aol.com/jenn0312/tori.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:03:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: Crucify Chris axed: > Hey Richard, I've been wondering and wondering and wondering... what > does the H.G. stand for at the end of your signatures? Enquiring minds > want to know! ;) Oh! Okay. :-) A little over a year ago I asked a girl I know--and she was seventeen at the time, and the girliest girl I know--if there might be some way that I could qualify to be an Honorary Girl. I didn't know what kind of reply to expect from her, but she told me that I deserved to be one, and that I could call myself an Honorary Girl, just so long as I always capitalized it. :-) I was genuinely honored and deeply touched by this, and still use the honorific to this day. She tells me I still deserve it. I hope to never disgrace girldom, and always treat it with proper respect. Epilog: In response, another friend of mine began signing her email with an A.G. after her name--Actual Girl. :-) The End. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:24:59 -0400 (EDT) From: MsSakamoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Happy Worker In a message dated 97-09-20 04:27:27 EDT, RAINN18@aol.com writes: > I just bought the promo copy of the Toys soundtrack with Tori's Happy Worker > song on there. Does anyone else have this?? I like the song I dont know why > Tori was so dissatisfied with it. Its funky :) Oh, I have that CD! I love it! Tori's song and Thomas Dolby's song are my favourites. What do you think of Let Joy and Innocence Prevail? It usually makes me cry... I love that CD! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:54:34 -0400 (EDT) From: RAINN18@aol.com Subject: Re: Happy Worker Do you have the promo copy cause i heard she pulled the song out because she hated it ...... or maybe she just didnt let a single be made of it. I dont know, I got the promo copy for only 4 bucks at this music mart place. I also got the song books beesides and little earthquakes for only 10.00 each brand new. i just love finding bargins angie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:34:54 PDT From: "Ray Bailey" Subject: Re: Tori on new comp. CD >Title: WLIR-KIVES Pulls the Plug! >Label and issue number: Restaurant Records 1003-2 Thank you both very much for this information!! - -Ray (aka Cochese) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Because I CANTNOT win without losing my dear." -Alanis Morissette - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Years go by, will I still be waiting for somebody else to understand?" -Tori Amos ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:01:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Jenn0312@aol.com Subject: Re: What? << Whoever's stalking Alanis better hurry the f*ck up and do the civilized world a favor! *s* >> I don't like Alanis either, but this is a *TORI* mailing list, not an "I hate Alanis" list. I'm sure there's one out there, so go find it and tell them that. ~*jenn*~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:00:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Jenn0312@aol.com Subject: Re: What? << Whoever's stalking Alanis better hurry the f*ck up and do the civilized world a favor! *s* >> I don't like Alanis either, but this is a *TORI* mailing list, not an "I hate Alanis" list. I'm sure there's one out there, so go find it and tell them that. ~*jenn*~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:13:14 +0100 From: Mike Gray Subject: Tori CDs to buy... My personal reccomendations would be: God (UK Version if possible) for the brilliant dharma kaya mix. Any of the singles from LE - especially considering the songs "Mary", "Take To The Sky", and "Here In My Head". Just my thoughts.. Mike E-mail : michael@pta15.u-net.com (\o/) then visit my web pages at http://www.pta15.u-net.com/mike/index.html /_\ For Gloria Estefan, Peach and Erasure information and Links! e.d.a. Erasure/Wonderland stuff at http://www.pta15.u-net.com/wonderland/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:58:44 +0200 From: Lance Windom Subject: CDs for trade I've got two singles: In the springtime of Voodo and Professional Widow. I'd swap them for anything of value, esp. live performances or Tori shirts. Lance ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:51:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Karen, Goddess of the Groove" Subject: Re: Tori's House Sorry it's taken me so long to respond to this, but here I am nonetheless. On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Jennifer Gerbi wrote: > On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Karen, Goddess of the Groove wrote: [snip] > > They have had a hard time keeping up, because they have been so deluged > > with requests, but they have an explanation on their web site and AFAIK, > > working towards getting things settled with everyone involved. The > > Caldwells are the only ones that work at RDT, in their spare time and > > IIRC, with little compensation. Give 'em a break. > > HEY. calm down there. Then they weren't the ones I was thinking of. The > OTHER fan club.. in florida.. run by the guy who flaked out or something.. > that's the one I was thinking of. I'm looking on Mikewhy's site now to try > to find the name... ach it isn't there anymore. it's in the cd booklets. Umm...are you thinking of Upside Down, run by Tom Richards from Clearwater, FL? In my 3+ years on rmta and my 5 years as a Toriphile, I've only seen one thing about/by Upside Down. I think Upside Down was a fanzine, right? I think I saw one in a local record store, but I didn't buy it 'cause I was broke. I'm so stupid. ;) > > They try to refer fans asking for help (to get out of an abusive > > relationship or after a rape or something like that...) to RAINN or to > > other services that can care for those individuals. I remember reading > > that Tori is in contact with the folks at RDT and I'm sure that they > > forward notable letters and gifts along. There's just no way that Tori > > could answer everyone's letters personally. So she lets Richard and Missy, > > who she trusts, read them and do what they can. I don't think this is > > unreasonable. > > It is unreasonable for someone to think that something they write for tori > is automatically going to get to her. I agree that some sort of situation > has to be set up by which the mail can be received and hopefully read, and > people referred to places, etc. But honestly, I'll bet cha tori really > doesn't get much of that. She's writing, moving, recording. Exactly. And that's *why* the fan club is there. They *do* read the mail and forward some of it to Tori. She knows we love her. She just cannot respond to all her mail, as well record and tour. > > At least if you write a letter, you know that someone related to Tori is > > reading it and that they understand and can help you if you need it. It's > > much better than wondering if your letter got thrown away. > > I think that if more people *knew* exactly who was going to read it, and > how it is handled, that that would be a better thing and people could > taylor their messages and questions that way. I just know from posts on > rmta, etc, that there are a lot of kids out there that think when they > write to Spivak or something, that tori automatically reads it. I don't > think it is fair that they are led to believe that. Well, I think it's also about being a certain age and not realizing that that Tori is not talking *just* to you. As heartless as that sounds, Tori is talking to *everyone* and to herself at the same time. When I was younger, I wrote George Michael a letter, thinking he would receive it and write back. I never got anything, not even a fan club registration form. And it finally dawned on me that maybe GM did not have time to write me a letter. It hurts, but you learn. It's one of those things... > > Like I said, I think she reads as much as she can and as much as is made > > available to her, by Spivak or the fan club. > > well, sure, I'm not knocking tori or the fan club. I'm saying it is > probably not humanly possible to deal with fan mail when you are recording > an album and living a life. At least when she is touring maybe a fun > letter or gift given to her can give some smiles when she's hanging out in > a hotel somewhere. And I'm sure there are fans aware of her presence wherever she is that are able to do that, on behalf of the rest of us. [snip] > > that. You can't send a fan letter off these days assuming that a) it will > > be read or b) that it will be read by the person it was intended for. If > > you assume this, you are just naive. > > > > Well there are a heck of a lot of kids assuming that, that's why I sent > this note to make sure people knew what was most likely really happening. Here are the reasons these kids assume that, at least IMHO. 1) They are young and naive. 2) They believe Tori is talking directly to them. 3) They do not understand how the music industry works. That is NOT to put these fans down. It's just a fact of life. [snip] > > I don't think so. How many people are capable of getting that address? I > > mean, her parents are older and may not have the time to deal with a > > fury of requests. I say unless it's just life or death, don't bother them. > > Let them live in peace. > > No- you're wrong here. someone posted a little while ago that she did a > film project to "butterfly". she went through some people because she had > to get the rights to the *song* (not pictures or anything). The person she > was referred to, and had a very pleasant phone conversation with, and who > she faxed the agreement she made up to, was TORI'S DAD who acts as the > manager for that stuff, and said that "we always try to help out students > working on things like that. It might not have been posted to this list, > maybe it was to the RDT list. So, my point was if the message is for > a reason like that, you will probably end up dealing with her dad to get > the rights to use the song in that way. From what you say, spivak people > probably deal with all the other stuff, pictures and RAINN included. Ah, I see. It would make sense for Tori to sign "her girls", her songs, over to her father, whom I'm sure she trusts greatly. If it were me, I certainly wouldn't want some record company to own the rights to my treasured creation and sell them to Pepsi or something. > And may I just say that it really, really sucks that he was such a jerk to > you, and kudos for you to keep trying and putting the time into getting > those shirts made. its amazing how hard it is to give to charity > sometimes, isn't it? I'm sure Tori would ahve been peeved. I'm sure of that, too, and that's what kept me going. I had some problems organizationally with the person I worked with, but in the end, people loved the shirts and ToriCon raised more money for RAINN than anyone could have forseen. :) [snip story] > > 1) Spivak is not *able*, both willing or capable, apparently, to deal with > > fan requests. They work for Tori and they work with big shots. Their > > attitude, in my opinion, is that we were not NBC, Atlantic, Pepsi, or MTV. > > We were not important. We were *just* fans. This is depressing, > > considering Tori's love for her fan base and her attitude that we are > > friends, "ears with feet", not *just* fans. > > Absolutely, and I'd even say that if you ever get a chance to talk with > Tori, maybe get a word in edgewise a) about the Con, since I'm sure she > loves to hear about that, and b) how he was a big jerk to you, because > she's the only one with power to get HIM in line. Well, I don't know that would ever just go off about her management, but I think if I were given the opportunity to talk with Tori at length, I would mention that they are not very supportive of her fan base, they do not want to honor requests from us, even the smallest one, and that they are not representative of her attitude towards us at all. I don't think Tori would immediately get on the cell phone and fire them. She obviously has a good, long-standing relationship with Arthur Spivak, who could be a completely different person than the people that work for him. I'm sure that she would listen and take it into consideration, but I don't think it's something she would act on, nor could I ever ask her to do that. [snip] > > It's almost easier to just use what you need and deal with the > > consequences later. But the ToriCon organizers are trying to establish > > much-needed ties with Atlantic and Spivak, so they have to keep in > > contact. > > Absolutely, and the work you guys were/are doing is really cool, and they > really should be trying to help not hurt you. And considering that we got permission from the photographer to use the photo and the proceeds were going to RAINN, we should not have been treated with such distaste. I must say that $2000 is not a small amount of money for a small, private fan meeting to raise. It *must* mean something to Tori and her management. I'm sure that if/when Tori is given that information, it will really touch her heart that people contributed to RAINN by participating in ToriCon, buying items during the silent auction, and just writing checks to RAINN. I mean, we are an aware group of people, we Toriphiles, and we put our money where are hearts are. :) > I mean, I think they forget > who buys the records/tshirts/mugs/window accessories. They forget that > people do these things... well this unique extremely strong grass-roots > support is what makes Tori successful, not radio or videos or anything, > and it is obvious Tori knows this (re: quote from Boulder show) but > obviously he doesn't, and i think Tori needs to whoop his ass. I think these things move Tori and I think sometimes when she has a bad day or doesn't want to go on, she must think of the fans she's met who have been so impacted by her music and her words. It must be quite a lift. [snip rest of mail] - -Karen *-*-*-*-*- karenjw@one.net *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* * there is a level of the vampire in me, which is ok - tori * *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* http://w3.one.net/~karenjw/welcome.html -* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:16:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Karen, Goddess of the Groove" Subject: Re: Tori's House Once again, sorry for the delay... On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Charlie Poole wrote: > On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Karen, Goddess of the Groove wrote: > > > That does *not* mean that we, her fans, have to approve of that or take > > advantage of it just because it's out there. Just because we can *get* > > information like that DOES NOT mean it's ok to use it. > > On the other hand, it doesn't mean that it's NOT ok to use information > that is "out there" either. Well, I guess it's just a judgement call on the part of her fans. I, for one, would not write Tori a letter and send it to her personal address. I would not try to get her telephone number and call her. I would not drive to the city in which she resides to sit in front of her house, wait until she left or arrived, and then run up and hug her. I believe strongly that Tori, and other famous people, deserve down-time away from fans. This is my point: if you *care* about Tori and her well-being and her creative process, you will not try to contact her personally, unless she *specifically* asks you to. You will let her be and wait until she tours to contact her. When she's in your city, go to the sound-check or wait around the stage door after the show. You can meet her there, most likely. She makes herself very available to the fans while she's on tour. You shouldn't have to seek her out. > > We should be *against* reposting it or using it. Many of us don't want > > *our* addresses put on the WWW or Usenet or whatever, so we should extend > > the same courtesy to Tori. > > Not trying to be obtuse here but just why should we "extend the same > courtesy to Tori?" For one thing Tori has made herself a "public" person > unlike you and I. So the same standards don't necessarily apply. Do > they? She became a musician and became famous. And yes, those were her choices. But if she *really* wanted us to contact her privately, don't you think she would print her home address and phone number in the CD booklet? Don't you think her phone number would be listed? Well, it's not and that's so that she can have some privacy. My number is listed. My address is easy to get. But that does not mean that I put it on my web site for everyone to use. It's on a need-to-know basis. > > Would you want someone showing up at your front door, someone you didn't > > know, asking to speak with you when you were busy or whatever? Would you > > want someone getting your phone number without your knowledge and calling > > you? No. You want your privacy. > > I can't agree with your comparison of Tori with we, her fans. 1) If Tori > is living in a place where her address or phone number _can_ be made > public there's simply no way you could just walk up to her door, knock, > and have Tori open the door. The door would be answered by someone else. You don't know that she wouldn't answer her door. I don't think Tori has reached the point of like, Madonna, where she has a person to wipe her nose. I mean, come on. Tori seems to have minimal staff. She typically gives a vague reference to the place she's living or recording. Last I read, she said she was recording in the Tropics. How vague is that? I doubt there are many people who know of Tori's exact location at any time, besides family and friends. > 2) If she and her new boyfriend are living somewhere by themselves, > without servants or intermediaries, neither you nor I can find out where > unless Tori wants us to know. And what is *wrong* with that? > You also ask about someone getting your phone number without your > permission. If you have an unlisted number you might find that call > intrusive. However, if you do have an unlisted number and call me your > number will show on my caller id unless you block it. OK...I realize that. > If you think you or anyone else really has any privacy you're living in a > delusion. Let me have your SSN (most people have it on their checks) and > I can find very detailed information on you and your finances. The older > you are the more information is available. I am not that naive. I realize that it is fairly easy to get and use information like that. What I'm asking is that people take the high road and NOT use her address, to write or to visit. Just because we *have* these capabilities does NOT mean we have to *use* them to *our* advantage. > Have you ever used Yahoo, > Excite, Alta Vista, Webcrawler, and Four11 to do a search on your own > name? Try it, you might find the results interesting. I've done it. I'm only mentioned on a few Tori pages. That's it. I obviously haven't made my mark on the world yet. ;) > > Give Tori the privacy she deserves. > > This is a statement of your opinion which you, of course, are fully > entitled to have and express. The same with me and everyone else on this > list. Why do you believe that Tori "deserves" privacy? I know that > sounds kind of dumb when asked that way, but why does anyone "deserve" > privacy? I don't remember the "right to privacy" being a part of the Bill > of Rights. Privacy is not mentioned in the Bill of Rights, but it is one of those sometimes unspoken and almost-always assumed rights. It's also mandated by LAW. There are anti-stalking laws, there's a law that prohibits other people from opening and reading your mail, there are laws against recording conversations with others without their knowledge. All of these examples fall under the heading of privacy laws. Just because it's not in the Bill of Rights does NOT mean it is not a right protected by law. I deserve the same right to privacy that Tori does. It would be easier to get her address than mine because she's more well-known than I am. But that doesn't mean that I'm more entitled to privacy than her just because I didn't put myself into the spotlight. > > Geez...I am not trying to sound like a bitch here, but I really feel > > strongly about this. > > That's ok Karen, you don't sound like a bitch and it's ok that you feel > strongly on this issue. I wish more people felt strongly period! And > were willing to express their opinions. This is true. :) > Please don't think that I disagree with you. I'm just curious as to the > reasons for your feelings. No, I don't believe that Tori would appreciate > someone knocking on her door uninvited. But, again, I don't believe that > she can be "found" that easily. Well, we all know that leaks happen and I think that it would be possible for someone to use their connections to get to her, but I agree that it's not likely. We're all arguing theory, really. > In another message you wrote: > > > I agree with you, Jennifer. Give the woman some rest. She gives of > > herself > > more than most musicians EVER do. Let the albums, the interviews, the > > TV/radio appearances, and the pre-sound check meetings be enough. > > I, too, agree. Tori gives so much of herself. How many other musicians > with Tori's popularity do "meet-and-greets" before (and especially after) > their concerts? I don't know of any although there may be some. I've met a lot of really nice musicians who are willing to talk to fans as long as they can - Fiona Apple and Paula Cole come to mind. I've also met some up-and-coming musicians who already think they're the shit and can't spend one second to discuss anything with someone who is not carrying a big-label contract. So it's really about that person's character to begin with. I think it shows that Tori is a caring person and has always been that way. > But I > don't think we need to worry about "giving" Tori some rest. Tori is very > much a person who attends to her own needs. If she needs rest she'll both > demand and get it regardless of anything we do. During the LE tour it was > common for Tori to speak with her fans after a concert for three or four > hours. When that became a burden she cut the time she spent chatting. Good point. :) > Don't take me wrong, please. I appreciate your concern for Tori and I > think your feelings are well placed. However, if there's a person > anywhere who can take care of herself, it's Tori. This is true. My arguements have not been out of some sort of need to protect her, I just want people to change their attitudes on how they treat celebs. We are not entitled to their private lives - we should accept what we are given and not beg for more info. If they want us to know, we will know. They *know* how to use the media, too. to you, too, Charlie. :) - -Karen *---- karenjw@one.net ------------------* * what is an angel but a ghost in drag? * * - tori amos * *---------------------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 16:30:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeannie Cook Subject: happy worker i didn't know tori was dissatisfied with happy worker! i mean...its not her normal thing...i guess it must have felt a little odd to JUST sing instead of sing AND play...but i think its cool. im very glad all her stuff isnt like this...but i like this song. it makes wanna dance...and other stuff :) anyone know why she didn't like it? oh...side note. gloria steinem came to speak at my school this week. she is awesome. she talked about how christianity had misrepresented and mistreated women...something tori has talked about more than once. just thought i'd mention that... jeannie jlc9@netdoor.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 17:28:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Karen, Goddess of the Groove" Subject: Re: Tori's House More apologies for the delay. Blah blah blah. ;) On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Richard Handal wrote: > Karen, Goddess of the Groove said: > > At least the people at RDT *care* and are fans themselves. Who says that > > they are NOT going to pass your letter on to Tori? You just don't know > > that. You can't send a fan letter off these days assuming that a) it will > > be read or b) that it will be read by the person it was intended for. If > > you assume this, you are just naive. > > > > Care to jump in here, Mr. Handal? ;) > > Hey, why am *I* being put on the spot? :-) 'Cause you have so much knowledge. :) > Seriously, I would generally > stay out of this kind of stuff, and was planning to stay out of this > thread specifically, mainly because all this stuff about how to get > something to Tori was not even responsive to the question Joe asked in the > first place, which was, and I will now quote his entire post: > > Does anyone know where Tori lives? > --JOE > > <>====<> <>====<> <>====<> <>====<> <>====<> > > The question clearly was one asking if anyone knew where Tori lives. The > initial response to this question that crossed my mind was, "Of *course* > someone knows where Tori lives. Obviously *she* knows, her family knows, > her friends know--those who need to know, know. But I did not think very > seriously about posting such an answer, as some people would likely get > pissed, and I would come off as being even more of a wag than I already > do. :-) Well, I would hope that people who consider themselves *human* could relate to Tori's desire for privacy, at least on a very basic level. And if you had made that comment, I would have totally agreed, as I think most of her fans would have. (I hope.) > Anyhow, back to the discussion as continued by Karen, Goddess of the > Groove. (Who I don't really know, but whose name I love.) Well thank you! I got the name from a good friend of mine. It was given to me 'cause I love to go clubbing. :) > I never saw anything to indicate that the Caldwells had anything to do > with Tori's fan mail. Tom Richards of the Florida-based fan club Upside > Down was doing that, from what I've heard and recall from posts he made > some time ago on RDT. Caldwells = fanzine, Tom Richards = fan club. Really? Wow...my impression was that RDT *was* the fan club, UD was a fanzine, and Missy and Richard handled fan mail. I guess I was wrong. > I know this is kinda confusing, especially since Upside Down is or was > *also* a fanzine. This fanzine was published *by* Tom Richards as well, or was a seperate thing than the UD fan club? (I'm sorry if I'm just NOT getting this whole thing. ;) ) [snip] > And as for Tori's dad and his relationship to any of her professional > business is concerned, he is indeed in charge of her publishing rights. > That's one reason he retired from the clergy when he did, so he could > devote more time and attention to that. He's relatively enfeebled these > days--I haven't seen him since last October but at all of the shows where > I saw him last year he was walking laboredly with a cane--and I'm sure > it's all he can do to keep up with his responsibilities with Tori's > publishing. I have incredible admiration for him and for all he's done for > Tori's life and career, but half a dozen or more strokes have visibly > taken their toll, and one must wonder how much longer he'll be able to > continue in his current position with her publishing. Tori's dad seems to be so cool. Umm...I'd say that Tori was smart to give a family member the rights. What will happen when Rev. Amos passes away? What happens legally? [snip] > And BTW, it's been standard practice for decades for fan clubs to handle > fan mail. If it was left to the record companies it would all probably end > up in the dump. Thank you! I remember writing letter upon letter to movie stars or TV stars when I was a kid, and most of the time, I received a letter from a *fan club*. [snip] > I'll go back to work, now. :-) (Single *me* out by name, will ya'?) Well, it was just 'cause you're a Man in the Know. :) - -Karen * * * * * * * * karenjw@one.net * * * * * * * * * * * i wanted to see you walking backwards * * and get the sensation of you coming home * * i wanted to see you walking away from me * * without the sensation of you leaving me alone * * - counting crows * * * http://w3.one.net/~karenjw/welcome.html * * * * ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #264 *************************************