From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #220 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Thursday, August 14 1997 Volume 02 : Number 220 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Ashre ["Lanna Chidester" ] Asherah, Muhammad, etc. [Richard Handal ] Re: Fiona: anorexic or really drugged out [Karen Whyte ] Flying Dutchman [WeirdyBoy@aol.com] Re: Tori in therapy? [WeirdyBoy@aol.com] Re: Flying Dutchman [Nadyne Mielke ] Re: China O'Brien soundtrack [agentorange2@juno.com (Rusty M Shelby)] What is "Ashre"? (was "Re: mohammed my friend") [Richard Holmes ] oops [bluegirl ] Any Tori fans in Berkeley? [China ] Re: Asherah, Muhammad, etc. ["Mark Biscomb, or so they say..." ] Re: Asherah, Muhammad, etc. [Richard Handal ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 22:41:03 PDT From: "Lanna Chidester" Subject: Ashre hello all- I found this on the Tori Lexicon section of a web page called Dew Drop Inn ( http://www.shef.ac.uk/students/el/ela95pgb/lexicon.html ) ashre- Hebrew for "we are one" Just my 2 cents Lanna/gemenai - --------------------------------------------------------------------- ICQ UIN=1289667 Page me with ICQ- http://wwp.mirabilis.com/1289667 Gemenai's Little Pad on the Web- http://www.angelfire.com/ok/gemenai "And here I stand with this sword in my hand" - Tori Amos - --------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 05:03:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Handal Subject: Asherah, Muhammad, etc. Hi, Gang: About the word "ashre" which is in the published lyrics for Muhammad My Friend, Lanna/gemenai said-- > I found this on the Tori Lexicon section of a web page called Dew Drop > Inn ( http://www.shef.ac.uk/students/el/ela95pgb/lexicon.html ) > ashre- Hebrew for "we are one" I'm afraid this misinformation has been kicking around for a while, and seems to be well-ensconced in some areas of Online Toriville. I've been trying for a while to find the time to get something definitive on this together, but the demands of life rear up and continue preventing that from happening. I think it's time to get *something* out about this though, so here we go. First of all, according to one Hebrew dictionary, the word ashre actually means "blessed, happy, praiseworthy." The word is used in some religious Hebrew songs, even in their titles. There's more to be said about that, but that's the short of it. Okay. That said, I am convinced that the word ashre as printed in the lyrics of the Boys for Pele booklet and the sheet music for Muhammad My Friend is a typo, and that the word Tori really means is Asherah. There have been some rather glaring typos in Tori's album booklets in the past, including the misspellings of the names of two of her best friends in the LE booklet (Rantz and Beenie are misspelled as Ranz and Beene), and I happen to know her to be a--well, let's just say that Tori won't be winning any spelling contests anytime soon. :-) But that's okay. I find it charming in its own way, and she has more important things with which to concern herself. It certainly doesn't make it terrible easy to get to the bottom of things such as this kind of question, though. Below are a few quick references from the web for Asherah. Most are merely small excerpts from the web pages referenced, so I suggest you visit the URLs in question for a little more context. It fascinates me that the Asherah concept even overlaps somewhat with the topic of female circumcision, which Tori touches on elsewhere. As much as Tori came to know from her family about the Bible and religion in general, she seems to have further delved into it on her own to the extent that for one to really understand most of these kinds of references, one would nearly require some sort of a degree in theology, or at least in the history of world religions. Although little more than yet another tangential road down which to travel while piecing together some of this Tori Amos puzzle, it seems to be a fascinating one, and I'm looking forward to taking a little excursion down it as soon as I get a chance. At this rate, I suspect that might be at least three or four years from now. :-) In the meantime, if anyone else has something to add in all of this, I'm sure folks here would be interested in hearing it. I know *I* would, so please share. If someone thinks I'm all wet about this, let us know what the real deal is as *you* see it. [Personal to those I owe private mail--is it any wonder? And to Eric in Germany: you're welcome, and thanks for the kind words.] Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ___________________________________________________________________ http://matu1.math.auckland.ac.nz/~king/Preprints/book/torah/tor.html Fulfilling the Torah of Moses in the Shekhinah and the Asherah [...] The path of the seed, the male principle of the godhead is preserved in its ancient form - El the masculine progenitor of the Elohim of Abraham, who coupled with the ancient moon god Yaho is manifested in the dyad of the Kabbalah, alongside the Shekinah - the 'Blessing of the Deep' to whom Miriam gave a song of thanks after the crossing of the waters, and the Asherah - the 'Blessing of the Breasts and Womb' the Garden of Israel. The Path of the Seed is the very Elohim in its quantum-mechanical form. Healing the angsts of Yahweh The episode of Jesus is but a shadow of the second angst of Yahweh - the killing of the Asherah of fertility, whom Hilkiah and the Yahweh-only movement desecrated and destroyed in their ignorance and chauvinism in the Destruction of the Sanctuaries. [...] The Shechinah is defined, in traditional Jewish writings, as the "female aspect of God" or the "presence" of the infinite God in the world. She is introduced in the early rabbinical commentaries as the "immanence" or "indwelling" of the living God, whose role as the animating life force of the earth is to balance the transcendent deity. She may be distinguished from the 'Canaanite' Mother Goddess Asherah who the ancient Hebrews honored until about 800 B.C.E. when King Josiah removed the Asherah from the Jerusalem temple and destroyed the outlying shrines. [...] The Four Blessings of Israel and Palestine (Genesis 49) The Blessing the God thy Father: The path of Yahweh is clearly Path of the Seed. He truly is the god of history. He is here to stay, jealous soul though he may be in his incompleteness. The Blessing of Heaven Above: Do not forget Thoth-Yaho the God of Moses. He is the lunar wisdom aspect of the Godhead, from whom the depth of understanding and the logos of the Jewish tradition was inherited, jealously diminished by Yahweh and lost by the waters of Qadesh. He is the ancient aspect of the Elohim who is prepared to journey to the ends of the earth to rescue the Goddess of Fertility, so that peace and abundance will become eternal, so does he love the Asherah, and so shall he avenge the fate of Moses. The Blessing of the Deep: The Shekinah - 'the Indwelling' - is the goddess of the future - the ethereal, aniconic feminine aspect of the Elohim. She is the manifestation of deity on Earth, as manifested in the burning bush and all the successive visionary manifestations of deity through the apocalyptic visions of the angels. Respect her ways and learn her synchronous nature. She will always surprise you. She is the spiritual manifestation of the Asherah - the tree of immortal fertility. And in her hand she holds the key to the Garden - immortal wisdom. Not just for the 'chosen people' who gave her name, but for the whole human race. The Blessing of the Breasts and Womb: It is to the Asherah to whom we finally turn in the fulfillment of the Garden of Israel. Without the Asherah, the Land of Israel remains fragmented, just as the king who has not consummated his sacred marriage to the land cannot govern. The Palestinian problem is Canaan revisited. The notion that the Asherah is merely a Canaanite Goddess is a supreme form of cultural and gender prejudice. She is as Jewish as Yahweh. Through the Asherah, unity among the people of Israel and Palestine can be naturally achieved because the Asherah is the ancient ummah. These male and female blessings are complementary manifestations of the One Elohim - the Tao. [...] * It is time to open again to the Shekinah, that manifestation of the burning bush, the Ark of the Covenant itself, and all that will manifest the holy of holies in this physical life, for in her you will find the true faith and the healing of humankind. * It is time to recognise the Asherah and the ancient line of the Jewish matriarch from time immemorial. The Queen of the Land is the key to the future fate of the Israeli nation. In her and through her you will find your eternal resting place in peace - the Asherah of the Land of Israel. * It is time to recognise the source of the tradition of Moses in the God of Wisdom and avenge his death on Mt. Nabo. * It is time to come to terms with the blood sacrifice of circumcision and stay the mutilation in the protection of womankind from like mutilation. Worship in your own tradition, for it is the ecosystemic way to know the Elohim, but worship in acknowledgment of the Shekinah and of the spiritual equality of the matriarch and the Asherah that resides in every Jewish woman, for in her the men of Yahweh will find the complement of your own seed line. ___________________________________________________________________ http://matu1.math.auckland.ac.nz/~king/Preprints/book/hieros/hieros.html The Holy Harlot was also a Virgin because she remained unmarried. Ishtar-Asherah-Mari-Anath was both the Great Whore and the Great Virgin Mother (Walker 822). Mary Magalen was the penitent Holy Whore and Mary Mother of James and Joses and Jesus was the Virgin. Ishtar the Great Whore of Babylon announced "A prostitute compassionate am I" (Walker 820). [BTW, this is a wonderful website pertaining to history of women, goddesses, patriarchies, matriarchies, and to women's roles in history and religion. --Richard] ___________________________________________________________________ http://www.jmas.co.jp/FAQs/mythology/canaanite-faq Athirat (Asherah, Ashtartian - 'the Lady of the Sea', Elat - 'the goddess') - Goddess of the Sea and mother of the gods. She is El's loving consort and is protective of her seventy children who may also be known as the gracious gods, to whom she is both mother and nursemaid. Her sons, unlike Baal initially, all have godly courts. She frequents the ocean shore. In the Syrian city of Qatra, she was considered Baal-Hadad's consort. While washing clothing with a female companion by the sea, she is spied by El, who roasts a bird and invites the two to choose between being his daughters or his wives. They choose to become his wives and in due course give birth to the gracious gods, the cleavers of the sea, including Shachar and Shalim. The new family builds a sanctuary in the desert and lives there for eight years. Baal and Anat hope to use her to influence El on the issue of Baal's palace. Initially suspicious and fearful of them on behalf of her children, but she warms up when she see that they have brought gifts. She and Anat successfully intercede with El on Baal's behalf for permission for Baal to build a more suitable court. When Baal is found dead, she advocates her son Athtar be made king. Her sons, the "'pounders' of the sea", apparently colluded with Mot and were smited by Baal with sword and mace upon his return. Baal-Hadad's creatures devour her handmaidens, so she sends them to El. El tells them to go into the wilderness and there birth horned buffalo, which will distract Baal-Hadad. She and Anat serve as nursemaids for Keret's son Yassib, but reminds Keret of his pledge of wealth for Huray, perhaps causing his decline in health because of its lack of fulfillment. ___________________________________________________________________ [This one's pretty interesting. You can see a clay sculpture of Asherah, and even order one for your mantle. --Richard] http://jblstatue.com/pages/asherah.html pictures/t_asherah.jpg Get the large version of the image of Asherah. (26 Kbytes) Asherah (5 inch #ASH; $20) - The original bread of life. Hebrew and Canaanite women molded loaves of this figure which were blessed and ritually eaten, the precursor of the communion wafer. Her idols were found under every green tree, were carved from living trees, or erected as poles or pillars beside roadside altars. Crude clay images of her as tree of life later evolved into the more refined Syrian Artemis. Ancient sexual rites (dismissed to this day by male scholars as cult prostitution) associated with worship of Asherah insured that matrilineal descent patterns, with their partnership rather than dominator values, would continue. Hebrew priestly iconoclasts finally uprooted Asherah, supplanting matrifocal culture with patriarchy. Our Judeo-Christian inheritance of this law of the Levites, passed on by the Roman Empire, is one source of present-day sex inequality. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 05:56:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Karen Whyte Subject: Re: Fiona: anorexic or really drugged out First off, I just wanted to say that I've met Fiona and she's tiny, both thin and short. I didn't think she looked sickly or whatever. She just has a small frame. And I agree with Paul Tweedy - it's sort of weird to speculate about this... On Thu, 7 Aug 1997, bluegirl wrote: > BTW, i saw her on Unpluged & i thought she was rather terrible, she didnt > even play except on one song. her music is a lot simpler than tori, they > are very different. i remember when someone first told me to try Tidal > beacause he said she was like "a bluesy Tori Amos", i did & well... it she > isn't. she is not in the same class as artists like Tori & Ani Difranco. > and i do not believe that that is so because of her youth... but she is > still ok. Re: Unplugged - AFAIK, Fiona played on more songs than they actually broadcast. The set list looked VERY similar to the one in Cincinnati and was taped to the pianos and the carpet in front of her mic. I'd say that she did the whole album, since it's only 10 songs long, plus the cover "Angel". They cut it to fit the half-hour. Not a big deal. I wish they'd shown more, but oh well... I also agree that she wasn't that great. She sang wonderfully at the Cincinnati show last spring and I've heard from others that they really enjoyed her live show. Maybe it was a big case of nerves... - -Karen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 08:39:04 -0400 (EDT) From: WeirdyBoy@aol.com Subject: Flying Dutchman "Flying Dutchman" can be found on the UK "China" single. It is now out of print, but you might be able to order it from someplace... The song is also on the "Precious Things" promo CD, which can be found at some weird places for no less that $100. A live version of "Flying Dutchman" is on the part 1 of the UK single "Past the Mission," which was a limited edition, but can still be found somewhere, I'm sure. -jason http://members.aol.com/WeirdyBoy/Toriphoria.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 08:45:45 -0400 (EDT) From: WeirdyBoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Tori in therapy? Tori has never been to a psychiatrist. This quote is from "Next" from January 1996: "I've begun to work with the extremes of my own personality, not with any shrink. It's real simple, I just observe... I observe when I feel like an idiot and I try to crack a joke. But I'm not an idiot; why do I need to see [psychiatrists] to see that? F*** that, I'm not an idiot. I don't think it pays in a week or a year for me. I don't want to live that way anymore." That's the only time I can remember Tori mentioning psychiatrists. I don't think she ever talked to a therapist about her rape incident, either. -Jason http://members.aol.com/WeirdyBoy/Toriphoria.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:55:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: Flying Dutchman On Wed, 13 Aug 1997 WeirdyBoy@aol.com wrote: > "Flying Dutchman" can be found on the UK "China" single. It is now out of > print, but you might be able to order it from someplace... > The song is also on the "Precious Things" promo CD, which can be found at > some weird places for no less that $100. > A live version of "Flying Dutchman" is on the part 1 of the UK single "Past > the Mission," which was a limited edition, but can still be found somewhere, > I'm sure. It's also available on "More Pink", a special Australian release of UtP, a two disc set. These places have had it in the past: http://www.abcds.com http://www.cdnow.com http://www.cdconnection.com I haven't done business with any of these folks, though, so I can't speak for 'em. /nad *************************************************************************** * Nadyne Mielke, CS majour, Southern Tech, Marietta, GA * * * * "I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of * * oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate * * commerce. " -- J. Edgar Hoover * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:55:35 -0400 From: agentorange2@juno.com (Rusty M Shelby) Subject: Re: China O'Brien soundtrack the song tori did for the "china o'brien" soundtrack has never been released. there is no soundtrack for the movie. however, the movie is available for purchace for around $10.00 at any given blockbuster (music or video). the song is basically dialog free, and plays during a driving sceen about 20 to 30 minutes into the movie. - -rusty you can reach RUSTY at: agentorange2@juno.com or rusty@poe.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:43:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Holmes Subject: What is "Ashre"? (was "Re: mohammed my friend") Nikki M Pill, damfoxy@juno.com, writes >what does "ashre" mean??? Well, there is somone on *this* list who goes by this name - perhaps something from this direction will clear it up. I did find a song called "Ashre" (and another one with "Ashre" in the title) in a Jewish liturgy list. Not knowing Hebrew, I'm somewhat clueless. "aSHRE" is also a fairly common transliteration of some Russian word as well. Before tracking down this info, however, I had always assumed something along the following: In biblical times (Hebrew bible, sometimes called "the old testament"), a very common Goddess for the prophets to rail against was called Ashera or Ashira (here we're transliterating from the Hebrew as well). In the cases where the prophets are burning villages, killing people, and destroying temples of the "other gods" (in King James, etc), the Hebrew version(s) often specifically call out "Ashera" as the one they are condemning. Her altars were on the tops of hills, and the tree was sacred to her, as was nature and wild things. The worshippers did not buy into the patriarchal god thing with his denial of pleasure, which is why "Jerusalem" always "played the harlot" and went "backslid" to these "old ways" -- Some scholars believe that the "whore of babylon" was derived from the role of the priestesses to Ashera who performed a "sacred marriage" (ritual sex) as a blessing with her followers. It was a high honor to be a participant in this rite, not a demeaning act of "harlotry" as described in the "good old" testament. Speaking of the old testament, the root of the word is (of course) from testes; the story goes that men used to pledge oaths while holding one another's testes, as a sign of trust - -- which later came down as the American custom of putting one's hand on the bible (rather than grasping the judge's balls, a dangerous thing to allow in this day and age, with angry defendants and long fingernails) and taking the oath prior to giving *testimony*. - -Richard. @ \@/ Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) @ | @ \|/ " 'The Book of History has many missing pages' @ | Murmurs the Madonna of the Middle Ages @ , , | , , But in between her cracks you can read between the lines @ ' ' ' ' ' She'd love nothing better than to rob the Louvre blind @ Baroque and complicated, her lovers never stay @ It looks like Mona Lisa is having a bad day... " @ - Michelle Shocked, "Looks Like Mona Lisa.." (on Captain Swing) @ @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra / Laura Love @ Susan McKeown \ Sarah McLachlan / Libana \ Danielle Dax \ Dog Faced Hermans @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush \ Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Ingrid Karklins \ Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:59:32 -0700 (PDT) From: bluegirl Subject: temporary goodbye i would just like to say goodbye to all in the list. i have to dissconnect my summer internet server today. i should have internet again around the time i get back to school on friday.... i hope that i don't miss too much :) thanks for the info & other stuff... and i will talk to you, see you soon nikki! ~marissa at---->mlverma@odin.cmp.ilstu.edu ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ uM. whAt'S the Name oF tHe wOrd fOr tHinGs nOt beIng tHe saME alWayS. YOu KnoW. I'm SUrE thEre IS onE. IsN't tHeRE? :::::::: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:58:26 -0700 (PDT) From: bluegirl Subject: oops i am not going bye bye after all i found the # for my school account so i can still check my email. cool huh? but i still would love plenty of emails. ~marissa at---->mlverma@odin.cmp.ilstu.edu ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ uM. whAt'S the Name oF tHe wOrd fOr tHinGs nOt beIng tHe saME alWayS. YOu KnoW. I'm SUrE thEre IS onE. IsN't tHeRE? :::::::: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 11:08:59 -0700 From: China Subject: Any Tori fans in Berkeley? I'm moving to Berkeley this weekend for school, it's my Freshman year... anyway, wanted to know if any of you guys are around that area :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 12:55:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mark Biscomb, or so they say..." Subject: Re: Asherah, Muhammad, etc. Hey Richard-- How did you get so Tori-smart? I want to be like you when I grow up... except I never *will* grow up so I guess it's moot point. But anyway. Seriously! All of you *really* Tori smart types, how did you find all this out? I've read everything I can find and still don't feel like I know 1/8 of what you do! Peace, Love, and the Goddess-- Mark ______________________________________________________________________________ | increase | |visiBIlity!| "You know that whole ------------- "God help you if you are a concept that God is not phoenix, and you dare to rise going to make it with up from the ash. a babe... what? A thousand eyes will smoulder Does that make him with jealousy as you are just more holy or something?" flying past..." - -Tori Amos -Ani DiFranco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 03:03:00 -0700 From: violet@slip.net Subject: The dirt on Tubular Bells Oh, dear!.... jason wrote: > Hmmm... confusion.... The theme from the Exorcist *IS* Tubular Bells > *BY* Mike Oldfield. and Richard responded: >That's what I thought I knew too, until Violet posted to say otherwise. >Violet knows what she talks about much more than most people. I wish >someone would clear this up. Maybe Violet will finally explain, if no one >else does. Okay, I knew I'd have to admit this sooner or later, and I think the time has finally come: I Am Fallible. There, I've said it. Ouch. About the Tubular Bells thing.... At the time of the original conversation on ToriNews, I was coming from two specific frames of reference: 1) the theme from The Exorcist (which I really *had* been playing for over 20 years), and 2) the taped copy of Tubular Bells that my mother had recently given me (which had a song on it titled "Sentinel" that caused me to exclaim, "Hey!...this guy is blatantly ripping off the theme from The Exorcist!"). It was "Sentinel" that I thought people were refering to when were talking about "Tubular Bells," and that was what lead me to say that Tubular Bells was only a hybrid of The Exorcist theme. When one of the TN subscribers responded that Tubular Bells *WAS*, in fact, the Exorcist theme, I did some research. I discovered that there were several different CDs titled Tubular Bells (I, II, and III) and each had totally *different* material. I had not known this from the copy that my mom gave me, as she simply called it "Tubular Bells." I mean, I'd known that there were several CDs with the same name, but I thought they were all the same complete work done in different ways (i.e., one recorded in-studio, one recorded live, etc.) I never imagined that the reality would turn out to be that Mike Oldfield named practically EVERYTHING he ever put out "Tubular Bells." Go figure. And to make things even MORE confusing, on the first Tubular Bells, he lumped everything under the headings of "Part 1" and "Part 2" instead of using song titles. Sheesh. So anyway, the copy I'd received turned out to be Tubular Bells II with "Sentinel," which sounded similar enough to the theme from The Exorcist to twist me around pretty well. I wrote to the person who corrected my information and apologized, telling him he'd been quite correct; since ToriNews is just for news and not for going back and forth, I didn't feel it necessary to say that there -- I felt leaving his correction of my post to stand as the final word without my rebuttal would be enough. Needless to say, I also did not realise that Mike Oldfield had *written* the music that was used as the theme for The Exorcist (against his wishes, apparently). So, if anyone would like to hear just how I might have made this mistake, you can listen to a MIDI of "Sentinel" at this URL: ftp://ftp.icm.edu.pl/vol/a5/www/midi/lib/pop_rock/oldfield_mike/tubular_bells_2_ sentinel_the_bell.mid Now, if you didn't know it was written by the same guy who wrote the theme used for the movie, wouldn't YOU have thought it was a rip-off too? So there's the big answer. Wasn't that fascinating? ;) Violet xoxox * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * One seventh of your life is spent on Monday. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 14:39:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Holmes Subject: Re: Asherah, Muhammad, etc. Richard Handal writes: [ A bunch of stuff about Asherah which was posted before my post on the similar topic of Asherah was written, but before I had seen it yet!] Thanks for the web-based info on Asherah, I'd been relying upon my memory, not having any sources at work -- that's why I was brief, allusive (alluding but not telling specifics), etc. > First of all, according to one Hebrew dictionary, the word > ashre actually means "blessed, happy, praiseworthy." The > word is used in some religious Hebrew songs, even in their > titles. There's more to be said about that, but that's the > short of it. Although I have not looked into it, it seems that "ashre" (particularly with this meaning) may be related to "Asherah" in a way more than just similar sound/spelling. Asherah was certainly "blessed, happy, and praiseworthy". > Okay. That said, I am convinced that the word ashre as > printed in the lyrics of the Boys for Pele booklet and the > sheet music for Muhammad My Friend is a typo, and that the > word Tori really means is Asherah. Aah, confirmation of my suspictions. If you and I thought of this independently, perhaps it is true! > It fascinates me that the Asherah concept even overlaps > somewhat with the topic of female circumcision, which Tori > touches on elsewhere. As much as Tori came to know from > her family about the Bible and religion in general, she > seems to have further delved into it on her own to the > extent that for one to really understand most of these > kinds of references, one would nearly require some sort of > a degree in theology, or at least in the history of world > religions. I can see the connection between Asherah and female circumcision, since worship of Asherah was met with heinous atrocities by the Levite priests. I would suspect that the history of world religions would do more good than the theology degree, unless it was one of these non-christian, world-conscious theology degrees. From what I understand of Catholic theological thought, this would not even be discussed. Now, Jewish, maybe. Perhaps study of the Kabbalah (the original Jewish version, not to be confused with the western Quabala, which is, unfortunately, derived from Lurianic Kabbalah which imposes even more negative female gender stereotypes than its predecessors). An interesting tie-in to the "whore of babylon" theme is that part of traditional Kabbalistic thought was to re-unite God with his bride, and the sexual union on Sabbath between husband and wife was thought to do this. This seems to be an obvious remnant of the hieros gamos (sacred marriage). > If someone thinks I'm all wet about this, let us know what > the real deal is as *you* see it. Well, I certainly think that Asherah is a good possibility for what she's saying. Given that, the websites should be looked at.... > http://matu1.math.auckland.ac.nz/~king/Preprints/book/torah/tor.html > > Fulfilling the Torah of Moses in the Shekhinah and the Asherah This site seems like a modern conglomeration of various aspects of the Kabbalah, Jewish/Hebrew religion and folklore, and the author's ideas. I can't speak to specifics, but I'd bet that someone somewhere's said somthing like this -- but whether it was a levite priest, a later rabbi, or a member of the Golden Dawn in the late 19th / early 20th century I haven't a clue. > http://matu1.math.auckland.ac.nz/~king/Preprints/book/hieros/hieros.html > > The Holy Harlot was also a Virgin because she remained unmarried. > Ishtar-Asherah-Mari-Anath was both the Great Whore and the Great > Virgin Mother (Walker 822). Mary Magalen was the penitent Holy Whore > and Mary Mother of James and Joses and Jesus was the Virgin. Ishtar > the Great Whore of Babylon announced "A prostitute compassionate am I" > (Walker 820). > > [BTW, this is a wonderful website pertaining to history of women, > goddesses, patriarchies, matriarchies, and to women's roles in history and > religion. --Richard] Looking now, at this, it seems like our web-master has done the proper homework -- though many conclusions in this area are open to dispute. But this part seems to reflect what I've read on the subject, after a brief perusal. > http://www.jmas.co.jp/FAQs/mythology/canaanite-faq This one is a fairly reliable, if brief, intro to various mythologies. One can look at the resources listed in these faqs and find more details, as well as lots of disputing opinions. > http://jblstatue.com/pages/asherah.html > pictures/t_asherah.jpg Get the large version of the image of Asherah. > (26 Kbytes) This looks like one of the asherah statues -- a good archeology or goddess book will show several variations on this. Thanks again, Richard (Handel) for the info on this subject, and for confirming my suspicions. - -Richard (Holmes) @ \@/ Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) @ | @ \|/ "In the name of Annah the Allmaziful, the @ | Everliving, the Bringer of Plurabilities, haloed @ , , | , , be her eve, her singtime sung, her rill be run, @ ' ' ' ' ' unhemmed as it is uneven!" @ - J. J. @ @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra / Laura Love @ Susan McKeown \ Sarah McLachlan / Libana \ Danielle Dax \ Dog Faced Hermans @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush \ Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Ingrid Karklins \ Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 20:17:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: Asherah, Muhammad, etc. Hi: > All of you *really* Tori smart types, how did you find all this out? > I've read everything I can find and still don't feel like I know 1/8 of > what you do! Oh, the deeper I go into all this the more frustrated I become, as I realize how much I need to quit my job to be able to study all this ten and twelve hours a day if I'm ever gonna stand a chance of really knowing anywhere near the amount that I would *like* to know about it. That realization genuinely pains me. These lists are for sharing, though. And it certianly is not about having a contest as to who's a bigger fan or anything like that. The competitive thing some people have put on this for them is disturbing to me, to say the least. I can't abide that. I just leave all that alone. Let them compete with themselves. But honestly: when all is said and done, the main thing about Tori for me is the feeling. I get an overwhelming amount of the feeling by simply listening to the music. Understanding gained from knowing all that other stuff is pretty much icing on the cake for me. I say as long as you keep hold of the feeling, you're doing alright. Never let anyone tell you otherwise. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #220 *************************************