From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #118 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Monday, April 28 1997 Volume 02 : Number 118 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Tori Stories [Katharine Silvia ] Secret of Joy [Doron ] Re: Secret of Joy [Tori0907@aol.com] she knows whats goin on... [raisngrl@inreach.com (cornflakegirl)] Rabbit [Richard Handal ] Re: she knows whats goin on... [Rayoooosh@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 01:32:29 -0500 From: Katharine Silvia Subject: Tori Stories Hello all!! I have been reading this list for quite some time and now want to trade A copy of my four CD "Tori Stories" for a copy of her ever famous videos from UTP. If anyone has these I will either trade or send cash Please help a massive Tori fan out....... Thanks...... Kas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:25:17 BST From: Doron Subject: Secret of Joy I have not actually read "Possessing the secret of joy", but a friend of mine did, and I think she mentioned that normally after the circumcision, the "superfluous" flesh would be thrown to the chickens. This proves that this book not only influenced "Cornflake Girl" but also "Blood Roses"- "...When chickens get a taste of your meat, girl". Someone also mentioned that "Rabbit" in cornflake girl was a symbol, but I don't think that's what she meant in this song. If I'm not appallingly mistaken, then Rabbit is one of Tori's best friends' nick- name, who falls within the category of Raisin Girls. Thus, "Rabbit where d'you put the keys girl" is asking that raisin girl to get the keys to "the other side". Jesus. With the songs in "Little Earthquakes" we didn't have to do so much analysing. Anyone care to open a discussion about "Doughnut Song" or "Voodoo"? Doron. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:55:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Tori0907@aol.com Subject: Re: Secret of Joy In a message dated 97-04-27 08:26:54 EDT, you write: << Someone also mentioned that "Rabbit" in cornflake girl was a symbol, but I don't think that's what she meant in this song. If I'm not appallingly mistaken, then Rabbit is one of Tori's best friends' nick- name, who falls within the category of Raisin Girls. Thus, "Rabbit where d'you put the keys girl" is asking that raisin girl to get the keys to "the other side". >> "Rabbit... where'd you put the key girl?" I read somewhere that Tori said the Rabbit is a symbol for fear. She is facing her fears by taking control of the situation. Tori ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 12:08:37 +0100 From: raisngrl@inreach.com (cornflakegirl) Subject: she knows whats goin on... here, this might clear somethings up. its an interview from the The Baltimore Sun... TORI: So "Cornflake," "Bells" and "Waitress" are a triangle together. Part of this record is dealing with the betrayal of women, between women. These three, "Cornflake" is, I've been reading "Possessing the Secret of Joy" by Alice Walker. I don't know if you read that. It went in depth of just women betraying women, and how the mothers really sold the daughters to the butchers, and had their genitalia removed, et cetera. A lot of memory came to me. Just social memory, not necessarily personal memory -- collective memory of how women have turned on each other. And the concept of a sisterhood is not real. I think that hurts me more than most concepts, because the idea that -- we've been, women have had obviously very little say in their lives, and it's been a difficult road. See, I believe in past lives, so I've been a man making it hard on women also. Just if we look at it from objective viewpoints, just the history of woman has been very lonely, and when you think that we should support each other, understand each other, that makes sense to me. You would think. SUN: One thing being oppressed teaches you is how to oppress others. TORI: Yes. It's been -- again, it's the victims become the abusers, it's that whole -- which is explored in "Waitress," too, where I become the one who wants to slice this person's head off. But the thing is, it's been, it's so disappointing for me when I feel betrayed by another woman. So "Cornflake Girl" is that disappointment. "This is not really happening, you bet your life it is. Never was a cornflake girl, thought that was a good solution." Cornflake being white bread, closed. "Hanging with the raisin girls," you know, whole wheat, multicultural, open, a little more going on. "She's gone to the other side, giving us the yo heave ho. Things are getting kind of gross." I think that's clear. "And I go at sleepytime, this is not really happening. You bet your life it is." The second verse, it just supports that whole thing. "Rabbit, where'd you put the keys, girl?" Rabbit, in certain Indian traditions, it represents fear. "Rabbit, where'd you put the keys, girl? And the man with the golden gun thinks he knows so much." Well, those are my God references again. SUN: There seems to be a small but growing movement of young women who realize that the trouble with feminism was that it was articulated as politics, and it's not about politics. It's about being feminine, and all that being feminine entails. Some of the stuff that you've dealt with is very much of the same cloth that [singer] Liz Phair and [comic book artist] Julie Doucet deal with ... but their most vituperative critics tend to be women. TORI: I know. That's "Cornflake Girl" right there. It's that incredible -- "All the sweeteaze are gone, gone to the other side, with my encyclopedia. They musta paid her a nice price. She's putting on her string bean love." Anorexic. They just put it on. If you go to their side and take up their cause, then you're a strong, independent woman. Well, you know, I'm so tired of strong, independent woman equals. And there's a list. Instead of - -- well, hang on a minute, the most interesting word here is vulnerability, that's getting left out, because it's associated with weakness. You don't dress a certain way to be a strong independent woman. It's fascist, and it's the same -- they're no different. They're just the other extreme. I don't feel a part of any kind of sisterhood. Again, it's the most disappointing thing, where I get criticized by women more than men on how I play the piano. They find it offensive. They find it offensive. I'm just going, well, this is how I choose to express myself, so if you're truly a strong, independent woman, then how could you possibly find me being a strong, independent woman offensive? SUN: If you're playing the game, which they are, it threatens you to discover there are people who realize you don't have to play the game. TORI: That's the core issue. It's just another set of rules. They're no different than the men that enslave the women in the first place. They're enslaving women. That's this triangle of women enslaving women. If we sit down, to have a cereal is no coincidence, because cereal is a very interesting word to me. To go to breakfast and to go to grains, all those things, and to segregate me as a cereal, especially since I did do a cornflake commercial, and since I do call the song "Cornflake Girl," and I say "Never was a cornflake girl," there's a real rub there. ABOUT ME: home.inreach.com/raisngrl THE BEST RADIO STATION IN THE WORLD: sorrel.humboldt.edu/~krfhmail ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ alone in a crowd is how I see me, but is this reality I am a beautiful flower blooming on a desert plain on an island in the sea, wishing to be discovered, yet cowering at the thought of being seen -cmh '93- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:32:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Handal Subject: Rabbit Hi, Gang: It's nice to see actual learned discussion on the internet. :-) I just wanted to add that as with a number of things mentioned in lyrics, Rabbit seems also to have more than one meaning, or at least more than one reference. No small part of why it's so interesting to study this stuff. I'm gonna repost something which came in on the RDT mailing list a long time ago. I also wanted to point out that in the thanks list in the booklet for Pele Tori thanks "rab and fox." That Rabbit is a person has already been mentioned, I just wanted to make it a bit more specific. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. <>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<> >From rdt-owner Sun Apr 17 17:34:27 1994 >Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 17:25:07 EDT >From: ATRJ33A@prodigy.com (MS CHRISTINA A DAVIDSON) >Subject: Rabbit ok. I don't know what the reference to Rabbit is for, but if you don't know already, one of Tori's really good friends is named Rabbit. She is married to Fox. They roam all around the country. I know where (approximately) they live but I can't exactly say where. But they travel everywhere to visit friend and the sort. If you want to know more about Fox and Rabbit (whom Tori says she wishes she was because 'she has such a cool life') find Issue #3 of Upside Down.. They both wrote something for it.. It's fairly interesting. Maybe I'll post it if there's enough demand.. They're really neat people, though, and I really hope that I get the pleasure of meeting them someday. =) Cornflake Girl (temporarily Black Swan.. =) ) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:49:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Rayoooosh@aol.com Subject: Re: she knows whats goin on... I hope none of you mind but I part of my web page http://members.aol.com/ZSpaceDogZ/Amsterdam.html has a page called here. in my head which is a collection of various interpretations of Tori lyrics. I haven't published anything on this page yet, because I didn't know what to start off with, but Bells for her, Waitress, and Cornflake girl would be a good group to start off with. I am writing this to let you guys know that if you have anything to say specifically about these three songs write to me, or the list, or both and if it's pretty valid I'll include it on my page. Also Raisngrl's post and the interview I'll be using. All of you will be given credit for your sayings and stuff and I'll even include a mailto so the visitors who visit can send mail if they have any questions specifically pertaining to your comments. Also if any of you have objections let me know because I won't start working on this page until May 14th. Thanks Ray PS: If you want to find out more about the page or offer lyrical interpretations to future songs or suggest future songs email me privately at Rayoooosh@aol.com ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #118 *************************************