From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #103 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Sunday, April 13 1997 Volume 02 : Number 103 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Comments: how we feel about tori now & more [agentorange2@juno.com (Rusty] Re: Comments: how we feel about tori now & more [autumn ] BFP/THE WOLF [Sam Free <106247.2224@compuserve.com>] YKTR, lyrics, no melody, annoying & more.... [AstroKitty@aol.com] Re: cute page on the internet... [Master Guru ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 01:34:49 EDT From: agentorange2@juno.com (Rusty M Shelby) Subject: Comments: how we feel about tori now & more i am not one who normally comments (because when i do it gets me in trouble) but, as someone mentioned in the last digest about tori "over doing it" a bit on BfP and the DDI tour....... i would have to say that i do not feel this way. yes, tori has learned to control her audience and get what she wants from us, but we also get what we want.. i have never been to a tori show (6 of them) and been dissappointed.... the best show i saw was on the DDI tour in chattanooga, tn in august. about bootlegs... someone mentioned they bought a wonderful bootleg cd recently... i own 2 of these cd's... i do mostly tape trades.. it's more fun that way, doesn't cost as much money, and you make new friends. i can not stop and do not condone purchasing bootleg cd's.. however, don't be selfish with them please... please tape them for your toriphile friends and distribute them freely among the list... i personally would love to hear that cd.. i believe it was "tori, berlin 96" (?) i have since met a girl on this list who now works with me at a blockbuster music in atlanta (hey jenn!) and we always seem to be finding new tapes to trade with each other every week.... i would now comment on the tori hate web page, but i have yet to see it... when i have nothing better to do i may go see it, but until then.... have you heard about the spice girls hate web page where you can smack them up side the head? i have heard, not seen. oh well.. so, tell me what you want what ya reallly really want.. whatever. and finally, i HIGHLY recommend the new "tori amos collectables" book! if you are a tori collector, you must own this book... there are a ton of helpful hints on how to keep yourself from buying counterfits, etc..... and the is a picture for EVERYTHING! reatils at $29.95, but if you have a tower records near you, they are on sale for $20.97. - -rusty you can reach rusty at: agentorange2@juno.com or rusty@poe.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 04:31:21 -0700 From: autumn Subject: Re: Comments: how we feel about tori now & more >i would now comment on the tori hate web page, but i have yet to see >it... when i have nothing better to do i may go see it, but until >then.... have you heard about the spice girls hate web page where you can >smack them up side the head? i have heard, not seen. oh well.. so, tell >me what you want what ya reallly really want.. whatever. Um... the URL is: http://194.112.40.4/Urban75/spicebelt.html Happy Slapping! autumn (who is embarrassed that this is all she has had to add in a really long time) could you just pretend that you love me the night would lose all sense of fear ~Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 09:53:52 -0400 From: Sam Free <106247.2224@compuserve.com> Subject: twinkle Hi guys Does anyone know what Twinkle is about? Being the last track on a long album it totally passed me by until I heard Tori play it live - she did it with such feeling and the piano playing on the album is so restrained but live it just soared and Tori sang it as if everything was so hard and it really touched me. If Horses is the introduction to BFP then Twinkle is the conclusion so something tells me it could be the key to the whole thing? My take on it (for what its worth) is its a reference to Mozart and the child prodigy thing and how hard it is to live up to everyones expectations. The music says as much as the lyrics - all the way through she's using so few notes (like Twinkle Twinkle Little Star) - its almost one finger stuff - and she sustains it all the way through - but it really gives the feeling of someone holding back who is capable of so much more. Isn't Twinkle Twinkle Little Star traditionally one of the first songs everyone is taught to play on a piano? Maybe when Tori first went to Peabody they made her go back to playing basic 3 note stuff when really she was capable of plaing concertos by ear? So the little girl did what they said to try to live up to everyone's expectations and please everbody. And now she's grown up and she's a star but to sustain it she still has to live up to everyone's expectations and its so hard? The first half of the song is like staying in touch with the little girl with the piano - so when she was little she wanted to be a star and now she is and she knows the girl that tried so hard to get her there is watching...but by the end of the song she's still that girl but she's also the star and being a star is hard but she can do it? But this woman in Iona bugs me? Is she real or is she metaphorical? I used to think that the killing a man and hiding in an abbey bit was referring to breaking someones heart and not wanting to get involved in a relationship again - but that doesn't fit with the rest of the song? Anyway my interpretation is probably totally wrong and its really about some mass murderer in Iona but I'd still love to hear everyone else's opinions on it too :) Sam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:14:16 -0400 From: Sam Free <106247.2224@compuserve.com> Subject: BFP/THE WOLF BFP has always struck me as being almost a cross - on maybe the missing link - between "pop" music and classical music. I know very little about classical music but its somehow the way BFP becomes so much more rewarding the more you listen to it and the way it seems to flow naturally rather than following a set pop structure. Little earthquakes seems to me to be Tori's "I want you all to like me and know me" album - the lyrics are very attention grabbing and catchy while the song structures are very conventional verse/chorus/verse/brigde/chorus type. BFP is like the real Tori doing what she wants to do and trusting us to like it if we give it a chance. If I were recommending a Tori album to a first time listener I'd go for Little Earthquakes every time but ultimately I think BFP is her best and most rewarding album - but it has certainly taken me ALOT of plays to realise this! As for Tori selling out - I thought the record company were horrified when she brought them BFP!! RE: THE WOLF - someone asked about this a while back? I think I remember Tori saying in a UTP era radio interview that the wolf was Eric. Sam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 16:19:32 -0400 (EDT) From: AstroKitty@aol.com Subject: YKTR, lyrics, no melody, annoying & more.... <<>> I'm not going to send a ranting and raving e-mail to the chick who has the Tori page because that would be stooping to her level... But I will post here, getting out the facts. I urge anybody else who visits the page & gets mad to *not* e-mail this lady. She doesn't seem like she'll be converted to the First National Church of Tori anytime soon, so don't bother. She also seems to get a big kick out of reading irate letters from ewfs. If you write her, you're "feeding the beast", so to speak. - -------------- YKTR (excerpts from the Mick St. Michael book) "Some of [YKTR] is awful," she now insists. "It wasn't really representative of what I do or how I was." Even so, she had to admit that her tactics had won her the attention she'd always craved. "It's hard not to notice a girl with 2 foot hair and plastic snakeskin boots up to her thighs, unfortunately. That's what my band, YKTR was all about. I left home at 21 and was off to the races." The sleve of the album, released at the end of May 1988, which showed Tori heavily made up and pouting as she held a sword across her shoulders, "was a good dartboard for pinning the tail on at a bachelor party. There was a pat of me that really wanted to be in snake pants-- although they were plastic-- and walk around feeling like a bad girl. But now my insides are strong and i don't need my hair sprayed out ten inches and my bra showing through." Tori recalls walking into a restaurant in LA and being publicly humiliated by 2 tables of music business aquaintances. "One was a publisher-- and you know he would give one of his balls to have my publishing now-- and the other was an A & R person. One of them turned away and pretended I wasn't there. And the other one turned away and was sniggering with his girlfriend. And she was laughing at me." Hiding her tears, she walked out with what little dignity she could muster. "A few days later, I was still on my kitchen floor-- you know, you're in shock. All my ideas: coming to LA, wanting to be... it's not about music anymore, it's about approval." This whole negative experience that was YKTR would inform her future attitude toward the music business, and ensured that when her career finally tok off it was built on the right foundations, ones she felt comfortable with and could rely on. Putting on a false front had not only prved unsuccessful, it had made her doubt herself. It wouldn't happen again. - ------ Given all that, how is this Tori-hater eligible to judge Tori for YKTR? Tori admits that the music was crap and that she looked like a fool. And really, I'm sure everyone has gone through some minor identity crisis or another and done things that really weren't "themselves". So the hell what if she was in a bimbo-cheap-heavy-metal-sellout band? I don't really care. I've heard the music, and according to Tori herself it's not really "her". She didn't even play tha piano on the record (Kim Bullard did). Even a devout Tori fan can look back and laugh at what she "was" during that time period. But that's all. Just laugh. You can't effectively criticize Tori now for what she did then; she admits she was a "sleazy, big-hair rock chick". You can't justify hating Tori because of that. - ------------------------- Lyrics that don't make sense: The lyrics from all the LE songs are pretty much cut & dried. Most people can grasp them if they take a little time to think about it. The lyrics from UTP are less clear, but they weren't written for the fans. Tori wrote the lyrics for herself, and only she know exactly what she means in the songs. It's sort-of the same way for BFP; only Tori knows what she means. And especially in Talula and a few other songs from this album, there are a million biblical references. I had no idea what she was talking about until someone pointed out the biblical allusions. But she writes for herself and she writes what she knows... 'Nuff said. - ---------------------- No melody? It's hard to pick out a "melody" in many Tori songs, but when you get down to it, who cares? It's beautiful music nonetheless. And her songs are unconventional to a degree; the divisions aren't always that clear, and in general the songs are very impressionistic and romantic. Many of her songs are impromptu pieces that make more sense if you think about them as individual thoughts or moments. Speaking of which, I only recently heard "Thoughts"... (The story behind it: "'Girl' was being recorded and I couldn't get a take. I was freaking out. Eric was in the booth playing air ball encouraging me to take a 10 minute. Glued on the bench I started this thing coming from nowhere singing nonsense into the mic. When i finished Eric said, 'It's a take.' I said, 'What?' --he had left the machine running.") I was so impressed at what a gorgeous song it was... The lyrics by themselves don't make much sense, but combined with the music itself and the story behind it, it really makes sense and it's a gorgeously opulent song. - ------- Annoying? Sure, Tori can annoy anyone. I'll admit that. For that matter, *anyone* can annoy *anyone*. (And the lady who made the page annoyed me.) She's entitled to her opinions, though and I don't want to sink to her level by devoting time to criticizing her. It's not worth that much to me. - --------- Ahhh..... Now that I've vented, I feel somewhat better. I'm not here to defend Tori and her music; I wanted to post so I could get the facts straight. But this lady *is* entitled to an opinion and if she wants to waste her time on a page for someone she hates, so be it. Megan Violent & Delicious Souls: Tori Amos http://members.aol.com/AstroKitty/Tori.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 11:58:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Master Guru Subject: Re: cute page on the internet... On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, Layne Mateuszow wrote: > Well, I have just enlightened myself in the world of stupidity. I checked > out that awfully cool web page completely devoted to hating Tori & > boy, did I learn a lot! I learned how incredibly naive some people > actually are in the world today. I also learned that the freedom of > speech act should be restricted & only be utilized by those who don't > abuse it. One thing I did notice & perhaps others of you have noticed it Restrict freedom of speech? I sincerely hope a hint of sarcasm is involved here. > as well, this person has really done his/her research on Tori & for > someone that seems to hate her so much, I find this very bizarre. I > must admit, I tried my hardest not to get offended, but it was a little > hard to keep my cool at times. I ended up laughing at the ignorance I > saw before me. This oh, so intelligent person referred to Tori's music as I don't think someones opinion can be classified as ignorance, especially when you yourself admit they have done their research on the matter, as not to be ignorant. Webster's Unabridged English Dictionary: Ignorant : Lacking knowledge or experience; uninformed I personally do not agree with MANY things in this world. But i am far from classifying anything as ignorance, especially when it comes to free speech, and the opinions of others. If not for free speech, we wouldn't have our wonderful Tori to listen to. :) If someone doesn't like something, that is thier opinion, and that's fine with me. It's not my opinion, as i love Tori's music very much, but hardly to insult someone based on those opinions. Just my .02 Master Guru mguru@mindport.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 20:22:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jodi \"with the nose ring\" Johnston" Subject: new here....questions about the list (NTAC) I'm new to the list, so please don't get mad if I do something wrong...I just wanted to ask a few questions... First of all, what are "ewfs"? I was also wondering what we're allowed to discuss....does it _all_ have to relate to Tori in one way or another? (I'm on another list where you can talk about the artist, but you don't have to exclusively talk about her *Ani DiFranco*) I think that's all for now....sorry to disrupt anyone..... JODIO I don't like marshmallows. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 00:02:51 -0400 From: "Jacob" Subject: Honesty I can't imagine how allowing your songs to be remixed can be considered "Selling out". Up until this came up I could see every one elses point of view. But what could be less honest and "sticking to your own guns" than putting "Tori Amos: Remixed by DJ Whatever" on the back of a CD. Selling out would be if Tori suddenly started writing Drum and Bass Songs or something like that. It isn't what she's about, so it would be like lying, just to make money. But If she likes Dance music (or D&B) then what could be a more honest way to go about liking it than to let others remix her stuff. Thanks for the tread on Angie Dickenson, the whole thread, not any individual post, showed me something that I hadn't seen before. ..j "Maybe I'm the afterglow, 'cause I'm with the band y'know. Don't you hear the laughter on the way down?" - -Tori, "Way Down" PS: Anyone who underestemates the potential of remixing should go out and buy both Bjork's "POST" and "TELEGRAM". TELEGRAM is all remixes of POST tracks, but each version goes places the origional track couldn't. These aren't a bouncy beat put over the origional, but are complete overhauls that, somehow, remain in character. Exploring the cracks and crevaces that are so often over looked. PPS: I have yet to see someone do the above with a Tori track, but there's lots I haven't heard. (Tori did it herself with "Merry Widow". That song is unsurpassable.) ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #103 *************************************