From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #101 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Friday, April 11 1997 Volume 02 : Number 101 Today's Subjects: ----------------- tori hate page [Jeannie Cook ] Tori Haters Anonymous [Figg ] Re: tori hate page ["profesora shoelace" ] Hi, I'm an obssessed Tori Amos Worshipper!!!!!!!! ["Mickey Sun" ] Re: Angie Dickensen [A Wee Little Girl With a Can of Gasoline ] Re: Boys and the other Girls [A Wee Little Girl With a Can of Gasoline ] Re: Tori sell-out [Delirium ] Re: Tori sell-out [John Casey Sherrell ] Tori "Sell-out" [Bob Moyer ] That Guy Who Hates Tori ["Heather Willis" ] Re: Tori sell-out [Delirium ] Re: That Guy Who Hates Tori [Bob Moyer ] dearies . . . ["profesora shoelace" ] Bootlegged Tori [Doron ] Damage [Doron ] Re: Tori sell-out [John Casey Sherrell ] The Tori Hater's web URL (fwd) [Delirium ] Can of worms... [Mark William Biscomb ] Re: BfP rules [Figg ] Re: dearies . . . [Douglas Hitzel ] Fwd: Hi, I'm an obssessed Tori Amos Worshipper!!!!!!!! [RabbitWkey@aol.co] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:55:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeannie Cook Subject: tori hate page man...the girl who made that page is seriously bitter. most of my friends dislike tori...and i usually find the reason for that dislike is they (esp females) are uncomfortable with her "rawness" and her honesty. women in society are taught to conceal their emotions, sexuality, and just about everything else. and tori rejects all of that. in a weird way i almost *like* it when someone critizes tori b/c it just makes me feel like im special in some way for seeing the beauty in something that they cannot. i know im beyond them in some ways, and i know that if/when they ever reach a time in their life when they can be who they really are they'll understand, if not love, tori's music. "she's been everybody else's girl, maybe one day she'll be her own" "cause they can't be...what they can't believe..." i'd like to email this girl, but i dont want to contribute to her misjudgement of tori fans. i know that a lot of tori fans are a tad obsessive, and will overly defend her. but the whole idea behind tori, i believe, is acceptance of not only yourself but others too. so when we attack someone for disliking her music i feel like we are betraying the whole tori concept. but still, id like to write this girl and ask her why tori offends her so much? if you don't like someone, fine. but why waste your time berating them on a webpage, looking through books about them? what is she getting out of it? it seems she has a lot of anger...but my guess is something about tori makes her realize something inside herself she doesn't want to face. thereby invoking this hatred. i dont know the girl, this is just my guess. i wish so many tori fans hadn't jumped all over her and made some of the silly comments i see on her page. id like to think some of us are sane people. i don't like to hear people belittling her anymore than any other fan, but i see it as a inability in that person to understand or comprehend the rawness and purity and depth in tori's music. ok now that i've vented, toodles all ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 00:12:34 -0700 From: Figg Subject: Tori Haters Anonymous Okay folks, just two things: (1) Somebody hates Tori - OHMYGOD! Call the Taste Police and get out the hoses because we have to burn this heretic. Everybody, and by that I mean *everybody* has the right to dislike Tori, what she stands for, what she writes, etc. Even Roseanne and this woman. I have read the page and read what she said and can honestly ask, "What's the big deal?" So what, she thinks Tori is a disgrace to women singers, etc etc. You have your opinion of Tori, she has hers. Nobody said that you had to take hers (or that you would have to take it personally). (2) Tori Sells Out - Most musicians don't sell out intentionally, and I honestly don't think Tori was trying to sell out when she sings about sniffing sharpie pens with Bill and Ben. C'mon folks. :) But contrary to popular belief, I think that BFP is a step towards the "poppy" direction *musically* (not lyrically). When you insert some programmed drums (ala CALS, the remixes, etc) and remix the songs, you are aiming for the so-called "pop crowd" or the mainstream. LE I would classify as pop as well, UTP was a step away from it (specifically Yes, Anastasia, the Waitress, The Wrong Band, Bells For Her, Cloud on My Tounge, Space Dog). (3) Okay a third thing. Pop Music - pop music, IMO, is something with a hook and a chorus. Simple as that. Tori's music I would classify as pop? Crucify, Remixed Talula, Caught a Lite Sneeze, Tear in Your Hand, God, Pretty Good Year, Cornflake Girl. Most of the singles. I'm sure we could go through her albums and notice "pop" halves and "not-so-pop" halves, especially most of the last half of UTP, the pre-Mr. Zebra portion of BFP, Little Earthquakes (the song). Pop, by no means, is something bad. Figg ==================================================== David Salazar garbage@pacbell.net Drawn to the Rhythm. Sarah McLachlan! http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/8532/sarah.html "With the light in our eyes it's hard to see" Heather Nova, "Walk this World" - ------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 02:20:02 CST From: "profesora shoelace" Subject: Re: tori hate page I looked at that page today, and I was so stuck on what to do, because, in truth, I knew getting angry and writing her wouldn't solve anything. She would not back down. I found her bitterness for many things besides just Tori very disturbing, especially since she seems to be so gung ho about treating abuse, and wants to become a professional in that area. She MUST be able to realize the people Tori has reached through her musical abuse 'ministry'(RAINN), ya know? This is what disturbs me the most, I think. After I read this web page, I was more upset than I had been in a long time, and I felt almost silly for letting someone manipulate me into feeling down on myself the way she did. But I guess I wanted to read to see what I could find, and if I could find something redeeming or concrete for her negative passion fetish. A big reason for people doing such things has alot to do with attention, I think. The simple fact that she would devote so much time into making known her dislikes is a good sign. Maybe we should all get in a group and send her a nice letter(not condescending or anything) stating something we might have in common, or something simply showing respect for our fellow human on Earth. I think it might floor her. Or just heap burning coals onto her hot little head. I guess I'm just a compassionate slob, but thanks for listening. :) (if you like my humble idea, I give you full faerie permission to pass it on) Kerriloo^ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ " You're already in there . . . I'll be wearing your tattoo . . . " ((((((((((MEA)))))))))) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 97 07:19:41 UT From: "Mickey Sun" Subject: Hi, I'm an obssessed Tori Amos Worshipper!!!!!!!! Hi! Before I start, let me say my prayers to the almighty Goddess Tori. My Goddess Tori, Please forgive for my sins today. I've only listened to you for six hours straight non-stop. I stopped because I have not eaten in five days, and my vision is starting to blur. Please forgive me for I have sinned. I shall listen to you for 24 hours non-stop in repent for my sins. In her Goddess's name. Amen As you might have guess, I'm a "PISSED OFF TORI AMOS FAN". Actually, I'm just a fan... I'm not pissed off. I'm writing to you because I wanted to set some things straight. On your site, you stated that: "Is there anyone who likes her music that actually has a mind of their own?" Well, the last time I checked, I still have a mind of my own. No, Tori has not influenced me to go out and buy a pair of pink Nikes (although I do admit that I do look kinda cute in pink Nikes). No, I still do not believe in fairies. No, I not emulate Tori Amos in anyway. Well, actually the last statement is somewhat false. I do emulate Tori Amos. I am kind to everyone I know. I spare whatever I have to people in need. I try to keep an open mind about all things in life. I have realized the shit females go through in a male-dominated society (amazing enough, I'm a guy). So if that makes me a mindless zombie who worships the ground Tori walks on, so be it. I'm not here to defend Tori. I'm not here to flame you. I'm just here to say that you are stereotyping her listeners. I think I'll stop wasting your time (and mine) by saying that. 1. I have a mind of my own (thank you very much) 2. I can actually comprehend her lyrics!!! (really.. I can!!!) 3. I don't care about how what Tori "looks" like 4. I am not living my life for Tori 5. I think the comparison between Tori and Alanis is somewhat laughable 6. However unlikely, I think you should give Tori a try I have you will have a nice day. I respect your opinion, but then again, it's your opinion and your opinion has no bearing on my opinion that Tori's one of the more talented musicians in the music industry today. Have a great one. Mickey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:05:13 -0400 (EDT) From: DanKitti99@aol.com Subject: Re: pop In a message dated 97-04-11 03:35:57 EDT, you write: > "pop" is short for popular. I keep seeing that, but, no, that's not correct. The original phrase was "pop off on a jaunt to see some music" and it was shortened to pop music. Most people take it to mean that pop is short for "popular". As for pop music being "a musical style characterized by melody-heavy, relatively short songs" as per Mr. Bean Jeans, this is kind of true for Tori. Think, Cornflake Girl, SATY, etc., usually with a part that stands out a bit, usually called a HOOK. like, "I believe in peace, bitch", or similar. But, Tori can also have more adventurous pieces like Yes, Anastasia or more poetic pieces like Horses. I should mention, I grew up in the 70s when groups just *had* songs like Stairway To Heaven, the 7 or 8 minute epic. It wasn't all 4-minute or less Top 40 hits. Then, it was the 80s with goofy looking MTV people. Boy George. Now, in the 80s, we have Tori Amos, writing actual SONGS that, like, SAY things. But we still have the Spice Girls too, so pop music fluff still rules. Not that I'm complaining about the Spice Girls. :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:11:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Delirium Subject: Re: tori hate page The funny thing about this girl is, if you look at the female musicians she likes, Polly Jean Harvey is among them, and PJ is a good friend of Tori. THe two are mutual admirers... And how anyone can equate Tori to Allanis... it just makes me sad. Closed mindedness is not punk rockness. Later:) Kristina Smegma, Dogmatagram, fishmarket stew Police in the corner, Gunnin' for you Apple toast, bedheated, furblanket rat laugh when they shoot you, say "Please don't do that" -Tom Marshall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:15:03 -0400 (EDT) From: A Wee Little Girl With a Can of Gasoline Subject: Re: Angie Dickensen On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Douglas Hitzel wrote: > WeirdyBoy@aol.com wrote: > > Angie was abused by her husband and she hid it well. > > I think that's what Tori was referring to in the song. > > maybe...? > > exactly correct. Tori is pretending that she is not being beaten in > this song. It's about a woman trying to get out of an abusive > relationship. I think it's quite a jump to say that Angie D. was in an abusive relationship, and this means that the song's about someone in an abusive relationship. I think it's also a bit of a stretch to assume that Tori knows that AD -was- in such a relationship, unless she's mentioned it in an article somewhere, in which case i'd like to see it, if anyone has a copy. :) The lines in the song go: I say her skinny legs could use sun but now i'm wishing for my best impression of my best Angie Dickinson Now, like Dan said, AD had really great legs. My interpretation of these lines is this: Tori was looking at another person, criticising her legs. But then she realised that her legs weren't all that great either. Interpretation: she was taking another person down, but then realised that her life wasn't in such great order either, ie that's she's not better than anyone else. Then when she says "now i'm wishing for my best impression of my best angie dickinson" she's so sad that she can even do an impression of angie d--that is, act like a strong person with her life in order--she has to do an impression of herself doing an impression. I don't think this relationship is abusive, because the song has such a feeling of acceptance and sadness and grace about losing someone you really love. like the lines "there's a light in your platoon/ i've never seen a light move like yours can do to me"--no one's ever affected me the way you have. On the other hand, if you want to see it as such, and if that's what it means to you, then that's all good. I'm not going to claim that my interpretation is the only valid one. It's just what it means to me. -=-laurie ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: You live your life like a canary in a coal mine :: :: You get so dizzy even walking in a straight line :: :: The Police :: :: reason let others give and realness bring :: :: ask the always impossible of me :: :: eecummings :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:26:55 -0700 (PDT) From: horse Subject: Re: BfP rules Attn: As the toriphiles we attempt to call ourselves, its good to discuss this stuff. I see both points of view, yet, I hardly agree with the pop theory. BfP is far more complex than any album I've encountered in '96 or '97...it is the album whereby tori is giving us a tour through her personal, emotional landslide after losing a big part of herself, her lover. The album is divided into different sections (if you notice the liner notes)...theres's the "Beauty Queen" section, "Mr. Zebra" section, "The Way Down", and "Agent Orange"...each section builds off the one before it...beauty queen implying tori's identity, image of a complete being; Mr. Zebra being one manifesting many different identities and confused as to where she fits in; the Way Down is tori's breakdown after parting from her lover, parting from a part of herself (if you notice, 'Hey Jupiter' is the song before this one, and in the song she talks about losing her lover, and not knowing if she should take a "shower or bath", love is strong shit); and finally, the Agent Orange section, where the soul and energy that her lover gave her cannot easily be detached and torn away from her identity, the metaphor is excellent if you ask me, she is scarred by love... well, this is my take of BfP, and i might be off a little, but the more i listen to it, the more it reveals itself to me...this is deep work here folks, its not pop. dominick olivas horse@cats.ucsc.edu ******************* you really had (a million hearts) to break now it's time that i left you in the moonlight out comes someone else driving your car taking you to different places in the sunlight still cold like the stars that's just the way you are still cold like the stars you used to say your heart felt like a stone now everything you ever wanted is .. still cold like the stars ---- -Mazzy Star, Still Cold ******************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:41:11 -0400 (EDT) From: A Wee Little Girl With a Can of Gasoline Subject: Re: Boys and the other Girls On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Nicolas Neubauer wrote: > That's exactly what I think. If somebody had asked me what style of > music Tori's is *before* the release of BfP, I'd have had difficulties > saying that it was pop- meanwhile I think it's pretty right, and I don't > thing that's a change for the better. Like many others on the list, i also disagree with you. When i go back and listen to Little Earthquakes, i'm also really jarred by the conventionality of the arrangements on some of the songs. It's not the songs themselves, but the way the other instruments come in. It sounds so.... normal.... to me. I mean, listen to songs like Mary and Crucify and Happy Phantom. They're -jangly-. This isn't a bad thing, of course. Then i put Boys for Pele on again, and it seems far more experimental. I don't know where you are, but i've never heard songs anything like Caught a Lite Sneeze or Little Amsterdam or Blood Roses on the radio. > Of course the more "modern" songs > show how many, many musical possibilities Tori has to express her message > and I wouldn't call them bad (I do like the groovy ones like LA & > ITSOHV), but they've lost something touching the earlier songs had. > Remember listening to Yes, Anastasia and feeling this incredible relief > when you finally heard her scream this high-pitched "WEEEELLL > SEEEE-EEE-EEE".. I don't find many moments like that on BfP - Ah, i find them all the time. In Horses when she says "your pansies in my hosies/ then opened my hands and they were empty then" And all of Blood Roses. And all of Professional Widow. And all of Mr Zebra. And the part of Marianne when she says "pesters and lesters and jesters and my traitors of kind". And the part in CALS when she switches from harpsichord to piano, and then the part where she switches back. And.... well, i'll spare you. ;) On another note, how many of you have ever played a harsichord? My boyfriend's parents have one, and i was playing it, and it was fun. It's really different from playing the piano! -=-laurie ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: You live your life like a canary in a coal mine :: :: You get so dizzy even walking in a straight line :: :: The Police :: :: reason let others give and realness bring :: :: ask the always impossible of me :: :: eecummings :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:52:48 -0500 (CDT) From: John Casey Sherrell Subject: Tori sell-out Here's my feeling on Tori's "selling out." The only way I can see why people might feel this way is because, well, for one the dance mixes. I'm not getting into the "Tori/appeal to gay crowd" thread or whatever, but the fact that almost all of her singles have been remixed does say a lot about her popularity. Granted, Tori has recently taken an affinity for this kind of music (has she always?), but dance remixes aren't created for truly artistic purposes. Their purpose is to get Tori's music to appeal to a wider audience and/or to give the Tori collecting fanatics something else to hunt for. All in all, the remixes aim to bring in more revenue. The majority of the songs on BfP are not meant to be dance songs -- I wonder why BfP was reissued after however-many copies with the Tornado Mix of Talula. Another aspect I wanted to point out, and this may or may not be related to the subject here, is that, I *personally* feel like Tori is becoming more, well, how can I say this.. I noticed this with the DDI tour: Tori knows she is good, and knows she has a strong, devoted following.. she uses this energy (whether it is good or bad in nature) and recycles it into her audience, and it's like this vicious circle of twisted emotion. (What a run on.) It seems to me like she has in a way gone overboard with BfP, in every sense. I feel like she is straying away from her roots and what has made her the person we admire so much. I suppose she has always know she is "good" and she has even told us that she recycles the energy of the audience (Little Earthquakes video), but I feel now like either she or the audience is losing sight of things. This is my best attempt to convey my feelings on Tori right now.. hope it makes some kind of sense. :) John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:59:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Delirium Subject: Re: Tori sell-out The thing about dance mixes and thing like that is that techno is the NEW alternative, just like how grundge was a few years ago, but is now mainstream. techno, is however, rapidly becoming mainstream. Lollapalooza is even revamping to include artists like Prodigy & Tricky... who are hardly 'pop'ular music. Tori isn't popular either, at least as far as MTV and 99% of radio stations. And if anything, I also hear the 'popiness' of LE and songs like 'God' much more then anything on BFP. If anything, she now appeals to less of the masses... except that her cult following is getting larger and more devoted. This doesn't mean that she is selling out. Artists like Tori get passes around... just think of how many people you have turned on to Tori... I can think of at least 6 or 7 people that are now Tori fans because I said "Hey, open your ears and listen to this" These people are now Tori fanatics with collections that rival mine. Also- Talulah's Torinado mix isn't dance, its just the version that Tori preferred... Peace, Kristina We're just two lost souls swimin' in a phish bowl.... Smegma, Dogmatagram, fishmarket stew Police in the corner, Gunnin' for you Apple toast, bedheated, furblanket rat laugh when they shoot you, say "Please don't do that" -Tom Marshall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:25:44 -0500 (CDT) From: John Casey Sherrell Subject: Re: Tori sell-out On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, Delirium wrote: > The thing about dance mixes and thing like that is that techno is the NEW > alternative, just like how grundge was a few years ago, but is now > mainstream. techno, is however, rapidly becoming mainstream. Well, still, techno remixes are not what Tori's music is about. > and more devoted. This doesn't mean that she is selling out. Artists I *personally* don't think Tori is selling out. I just mentioned the dance remixes (perhaps I should have mentioned the "Voodoo" remixes rather than "Talula") because I have seen this happen to other artists, i.e. The Cure. I guess what happens is when an artist's following grows, the record company sees this and assumes that producing recycled versions of the songs will be appealing. The remixes themself have very little musical worth -- they are meant to bring in more money -- squeezing every little drop out of the record they can. > Also- Talulah's Torinado mix isn't dance, its just the version that Tori > preferred... Like I said perhaps I shouldn't even have mentioned Talula, because I don't know the full story behind it (Tornado Mix).. but I don't understand why she would have replaced the original.. it is so much better (but then again that is my opinion). John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:52:04 -0400 From: Bob Moyer Subject: Tori "Sell-out" I'm confused. Does Tori do these re-mixes? Is she suddenly a groove or ambient DJ? No, of course not, I own most of them- and they're done by DJ's Tori trusts. It's no more a sell-out than Trent Reznor allowing people he trusts to try re-mixing his stuff. Second, a lot of techno bashing goes on in this email group. Admittedly, there is a lot of bad techno (esp. here in the US), but there is also A LOT of bad "i'm-a-girl-who-can-sort-of-play-an-instrument-and-i've-got-a-lot-of-angst" around. Tori is talented enough and poetic enough to get her message across in a manner that approaches genius. Likewise, techno labels such as Eye-Q, have artists like Earth Nation and Cygnus X to convey not just an excellent beat- but an symphonic emotional gist as well. The Tori remixes are all together above-average American techno, and if making people feel good is "selling out"... Deal. - -- -Bob rahvin@wam.umd.edu Portfolio: http://www.glue.umd.edu/~ruiner Homepage: http://horatio.dorm.umd.edu *)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*) "sometimes you make me feel like i'm living at the edge of the world like i'm living at the edge of the world "it's just the way i smile" you said" -The Cure ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 14:02:58 From: "Heather Willis" Subject: That Guy Who Hates Tori I've been lurking on this mailing list for awhile, but I now feel compelled to write and voice my opinion. I visited the web page of that guy who hates Tori. My first reaction was: Why is this guy wasting his time making web pages about things he doesn't like? Does he have no life? If I don't like something, I just don't like it. I don't feel the need to waste web space bitching about it. I mean, if I made a web page about every artist or group I didn't like, I'd be wasting a lot of space on something that few people are even interested in. Why does he think any of us care that he doesn't like Tori? And why is he so hostile towards her? The only reason I went to his site is because I wanted a good laugh, and boy did I get one. It's pathetic what some people choose to do with their time. Venus Anastasia "Maybe I'm a witch, lost in time..." - Tori *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:52:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Delirium Subject: Re: Tori sell-out Right on. The thing about remixes is, there are good & bad remixes just like there is original inventive music (tori) and "garbage" like 'the spice girls' for instance. Unfortunaltly, many of the remixers who are doing Tori's music do not do it well. BT's talulah mixes are wonderful, IMHO, but you're right, the Voodoo single is pretty bad. I still have it though, love the artwork:) Later, Kristina On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, John Casey Sherrell wrote: > On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, Delirium wrote: > > > The thing about dance mixes and thing like that is that techno is the NEW > > alternative, just like how grundge was a few years ago, but is now > > mainstream. techno, is however, rapidly becoming mainstream. > > Well, still, techno remixes are not what Tori's music is about. > > > and more devoted. This doesn't mean that she is selling out. Artists > > I *personally* don't think Tori is selling out. I just mentioned the > dance remixes (perhaps I should have mentioned the "Voodoo" remixes > rather than "Talula") because I have seen this happen to other artists, > i.e. The Cure. I guess what happens is when an artist's following grows, > the record company sees this and assumes that producing recycled versions > of the songs will be appealing. The remixes themself have very little > musical worth -- they are meant to bring in more money -- squeezing every > little drop out of the record they can. > > > Also- Talulah's Torinado mix isn't dance, its just the version that Tori > > preferred... > > Like I said perhaps I shouldn't even have mentioned Talula, because I > don't know the full story behind it (Tornado Mix).. but I don't > understand why she would have replaced the original.. it is so much > better (but then again that is my opinion). > > John > > Smegma, Dogmatagram, fishmarket stew Police in the corner, Gunnin' for you Apple toast, bedheated, furblanket rat laugh when they shoot you, say "Please don't do that" -Tom Marshall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 14:07:51 -0400 From: Bob Moyer Subject: Re: That Guy Who Hates Tori Heather Willis wrote: > > My first reaction was: Why is this guy wasting his time making > web pages about things he doesn't like? Seems kind of pathetic. What's that address? - -- -Bob rahvin@wam.umd.edu Portfolio: http://www.glue.umd.edu/~ruiner Homepage: http://horatio.dorm.umd.edu *)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*)*) "sometimes you make me feel like i'm living at the edge of the world like i'm living at the edge of the world "it's just the way i smile" you said" -The Cure ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:34:47 CST From: "profesora shoelace" Subject: dearies . . . I do believe we're dealing with a GIRL who is frustrated with Tori, here. Just a friendly correction . . . Hey- I'm going into Chicago tomorrow . . . Anyone know of some good record stores to pick up Tori merchandise? Just wondering. Hope your weekend is filled with glitter and fruit-roll-up fun kerriloo^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 17:31:52 BST From: Doron Subject: Bootlegged Tori Well... I have recently bought an AMAZING 17-track bootleg called "Berlin 96". The photo on the cover is the same one as on the new SATY single (with the RAINN t-shirt) and it not only has good sound quality to reccommend it, but also that incredible version of "Father Lucifer" incorporated with Mike Oldfield's "Tubular Bells" and Jimmy Sommerville\Bronsky Beat's "Smalltown Boy". Further attractions include the harpsichorded version of "Bells for her" (which I have, thanks to this bootleg, heard for the first time) and yet more grief- stricken adaptations of "Losing my religion", "Smells like teen spirit" and "American Pie". And guess what? No screaming fans in the background (well, maybe just a couple...). Paid 12.99 British Pounds for it (unless my memory has decided to fail me again) and it is worth every penny. Toodles, Doron, Manchester. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 17:48:17 BST From: Doron Subject: Damage Phew...all that discussion about Angie's legs. Listen! It's not about abuse, OK? "Putting the damage on" is some sort of a natural progression from "Hey Jupiter". It's a "break-up" song. Anyone who has heard Kate Bush's "You're the one" (from "The Red shoes", 1993) will identify it to be so immediately. When she refers to Eric's (it's only a wild guess that she's talking about Eric, but how would I know?) "Putting the damage on", methinks she means that by leaving, by going away he is damaging the love they had (cliches aside, please). Her best impression of Angie Dickinson is, as was already said correctly, trying to put on a brave face, to look strong, despite the mental havoc inside. But then again, I may be talking complete rubbish. Good day, Doron. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:45:49 -0500 (CDT) From: John Casey Sherrell Subject: Re: Tori sell-out On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, Delirium wrote: > Right on. The thing about remixes is, there are good & bad remixes just > like there is original inventive music (tori) and "garbage" like 'the > spice girls' for instance. Unfortunaltly, many of the remixers who are > doing Tori's music do not do it well. BT's talulah mixes are wonderful, > IMHO, but you're right, the Voodoo single is pretty bad. I still have it > though, love the artwork:) Actually.. you may find this revolting.. But I like the Voodoo mixes better than any of the others! (running and ducking for cover) ;) John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 15:06:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Delirium Subject: The Tori Hater's web URL (fwd) for all of you asking me for this URL- here it is. Smegma, Dogmatagram, fishmarket stew Police in the corner, Gunnin' for you Apple toast, bedheated, furblanket rat laugh when they shoot you, say "Please don't do that" -Tom Marshall Here is the URL for the Tori hater's web site. I refuse to place the link on my page...this is really really nasty stuff...but I wantd you to have it. But be warned, this girl is really sick! http://users.accessus.net/~sunflwr/dumbass.html Yours in Tori, Mikewhy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. Whitehead mikewhy@iglou.com My Dent In The Tori Amos Net Universe => http://www.aye.net/~mikewhy/toriamos.html "Moses I know, I know you've seen fire, but you've never seen fire until you've seen Pele blow..." Tori Amos - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:13:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark William Biscomb Subject: Can of worms... Wow. Looks like I really opened up a can of worms when I said Tori was selling out! Since it's been responded to so many times, I thought I'd just do a little bit of clarifying... "Selling out" may have been the wrong words to use (silly me). I think my biggest problem is what SOMEONE pointed out in regards to the singles. Remeber bringing home say the Winter single and you had maybe 4 new songs that weren't on the LE album? Cornflake Girl had Sister Janet and Honey? (You get the idea) Now, I go out and look for Tori singles and the only thing I can find are Twilight remixes, Quiet mixes, Sugar dub, etc. of the SAME SONG! This is probably why I said she was starting to sell out. I know it can't be easy coming up with girls as powerful as those Tori produces, but come on! I KNOW (and so should all of you) that she can do better than that. Someone else also brought up the point that it's not Tori who's responsible for the mixes, but (from my relatively uneducated knowledge about the music industry) Tori has to have SOME say in what happens to her music and what gets published. I totally agree that her songs are getting more and more complex and layered (which is a very good thing). I guess I let my problems with the singles take over my mind for a bit. BfP is certainly a powerful album (though I still think it's the weakest--I'm entitled to an opinion) and I don't want to sell the ALBUM short. It's just what she's done WITH the album that bothers me. By the way, I also joined the crowd of "mindless fanatics" and checked out the anti-Tori sight. While I couldn't disagree more with whoever made that page, she does have one point: she IS entitled to her own opinion. As came up in the whole Roseanne "controversy", if people were allowed to squelch anyone they didn't like, Tori would have been canned a LONG time ago. Make sure you keep that in perspective if you choose to write her back. (The last thing we need to do is give her a real reason to dislike us) Peace, Love, and the Goddess-- Mark "Maybe I Should've Kept My Mouth Shut" Biscomb "Butterfly, they like you better framed and dry..." -T.A. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:31:20 -0700 From: Figg Subject: Re: BfP rules > >As the toriphiles we attempt to call ourselves, its good to discuss this >stuff. I see both points of view, yet, I hardly agree with the pop >theory. BfP is far more complex than any album I've encountered in '96 >or '97...it is the album whereby tori is giving us a tour through >her personal, emotional landslide after losing a big part of herself, her >lover. The album is divided into different sections (if you notice the >liner notes)...theres's the "Beauty Queen" section, "Mr. Zebra" section, >"The Way Down", and "Agent Orange"...each section builds off the one >before it...beauty queen implying tori's identity, image of a complete >being; Mr. Zebra being one manifesting many different identities and >confused as to where she fits in; the Way Down is tori's breakdown after >parting from her lover, parting from a part of herself (if you notice, >'Hey Jupiter' is the song before this one, and in the song she talks >about losing her lover, and not knowing if she should take a "shower or >bath", love is strong shit); and finally, the Agent Orange section, where >the soul and energy that her lover gave her cannot easily be detached and >torn away from her identity, the metaphor is excellent if you ask me, she >is scarred by love... > >well, this is my take of BfP, and i might be off a little, but the more i >listen to it, the more it reveals itself to me...this is deep work here >folks, its not pop. One little note: I could write about any deep and inner secret I had, any personal moments, regardless of my lyrics, if I have a nice little musical hook (say, the boomp-boobooboomp in CALS or the duhduhduhduhhduhduhduh in Professional Widow, or the doo doo doo doo doo doo doo in In the Springtime is His Voodoo) it is going to catch on with the mainstream crowd--that's what they're looking for. It's pop music. (Tori's will be, of course, unless Tori doesn't want people dancing to her music, which is definitely not true b/c of the remixes and Blue Skies). Regardless of the source of the word 'pop,' what it means today is angsty guitar-driven alterna rock, with the angsty synth-driven techno stuff coming up. Hey, it's about love as well and that's something *everyone* can relate to. David/Figg ==================================================== David Salazar garbage@pacbell.net Drawn to the Rhythm. Sarah McLachlan! http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/8532/sarah.html "With the light in our eyes it's hard to see" Heather Nova, "Walk this World" - ------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 14:33:02 -0500 From: Douglas Hitzel Subject: Re: dearies . . . > Hey- > I'm going into Chicago tomorrow . . . > Anyone know of some good record stores to pick up Tori merchandise? > Just wondering. ME TOO!!! It's for our band trip. We'll be touring the city Sunday though. I want to find some good Tori merchandise too! Help someone? Doug ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:07:22 -0400 (EDT) From: RabbitWkey@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Hi, I'm an obssessed Tori Amos Worshipper!!!!!!!! In a message dated 97-04-11 04:44:26 EDT, MickeySun@msn.com (Mickey Sun) writes: << 2. I can actually comprehend her lyrics!!! (really.. I can!!!) >> Some of the meanings of her lyrics (mostly those w/ an intended obvious meaning) can be understood by us...the "ears with feet," but a lot of Tori's music is symbolic to only herself...or a select few. A mood and even an interpretation of the meanings can be inferred, but no one will ever have the same feelings and experiences as anyone else. Jeff P.S. I agree with the rest of your post. :o) - --------------------- Forwarded message: From: MickeySun@msn.com (Mickey Sun) Sender: owner-precious-things@smoe.org Reply-to: MickeySun@msn.com (Mickey Sun) To: sunflwr@accessus.net CC: precious-things@smoe.org Date: 97-04-11 04:44:26 EDT Hi! Before I start, let me say my prayers to the almighty Goddess Tori. My Goddess Tori, Please forgive for my sins today. I've only listened to you for six hours straight non-stop. I stopped because I have not eaten in five days, and my vision is starting to blur. Please forgive me for I have sinned. I shall listen to you for 24 hours non-stop in repent for my sins. In her Goddess's name. Amen As you might have guess, I'm a "PISSED OFF TORI AMOS FAN". Actually, I'm just a fan... I'm not pissed off. I'm writing to you because I wanted to set some things straight. On your site, you stated that: "Is there anyone who likes her music that actually has a mind of their own?" Well, the last time I checked, I still have a mind of my own. No, Tori has not influenced me to go out and buy a pair of pink Nikes (although I do admit that I do look kinda cute in pink Nikes). No, I still do not believe in fairies. No, I not emulate Tori Amos in anyway. Well, actually the last statement is somewhat false. I do emulate Tori Amos. I am kind to everyone I know. I spare whatever I have to people in need. I try to keep an open mind about all things in life. I have realized the shit females go through in a male-dominated society (amazing enough, I'm a guy). So if that makes me a mindless zombie who worships the ground Tori walks on, so be it. I'm not here to defend Tori. I'm not here to flame you. I'm just here to say that you are stereotyping her listeners. I think I'll stop wasting your time (and mine) by saying that. 1. I have a mind of my own (thank you very much) 2. I can actually comprehend her lyrics!!! (really.. I can!!!) 3. I don't care about how what Tori "looks" like 4. I am not living my life for Tori 5. I think the comparison between Tori and Alanis is somewhat laughable 6. However unlikely, I think you should give Tori a try I have you will have a nice day. I respect your opinion, but then again, it's your opinion and your opinion has no bearing on my opinion that Tori's one of the more talented musicians in the music industry today. Have a great one. Mickey ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #101 *************************************