From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #100 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Friday, April 11 1997 Volume 02 : Number 100 Today's Subjects: ----------------- need info ["Mickey Sun" ] Re: Boys and the other Girls [Rayoooosh@aol.com] Re: need info [Delirium ] Re: Boys and the other Girls [DanKitti99@aol.com] Re: Angie Dickensen [DanKitti99@aol.com] Re: Boys and the other Girls [Mark William Biscomb ] Re: Angie Dickensen [Sam Free <106247.2224@compuserve.com>] Re: pop?? [mr bean jeans ] Re: pop?? [Richard Handal ] pop [Sean Gambrel ] Tori becoming less normal. [WeirdyBoy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 07:19:52 UT From: "Mickey Sun" Subject: need info Hey All, This past weekend I had a *little* trouble with my #$#@ computer. As a result, I haven't been able to keep up with anything. I've just heard that a new "Tori Hating" website has popped up. Does anyone have the URL? I'd like to see what this person has to say about Tori. Many thanks in advance. Mickey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 03:35:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Rayoooosh@aol.com Subject: Re: Boys and the other Girls I could not totally disagree with you more. From the four Tori Amos Albums that are mainstream I think Boys for Pele is her most thought out album, and the most mature of them all. Musically it is the most complex, and most ingenious and unique compositions I've ever encountered. Lyrically it is very provacative, and it is a side of Tori which has matured and I think her fans should appreciate that. Even though I regard Silent all these years to be her most provacative songs, boys for pele explores a lot of societal insecurities and reveals a lot about Tori on a deeper level. I think the difference with BFP and LE is that Little Earthquakes had a strong message and a clear delivery. Now Tori's lyrics have become more archaic, but they still have stronger meanings. I think Tori herself said that the songs on BFP are meant to be interpretted by the listener, and that those songs for her have a strong meaning and she expects the reader to find the meaning they want to find. I really like Boys for Pele, and I think that PTDO, Horses, CaLS, and Muhammad my Friend are among Tori's best. The only reason some of you may express discontent with Tori is because you may fear change, but Tori is definately not mainstreaming. I would think she is deviating farther from it. I mean how can someone write a song called Father Lucifer, or something as religiously controversial as Muhammed my Friend and be called a conformist. Tori is creating her own genre, and I think we should all appreciate it, and consider it one of her finest works. Ray ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:58:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Delirium Subject: Re: need info that url is: users.accessus.net/~sunflwr/dumbass.html On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, Mickey Sun wrote: > Hey All, > > This past weekend I had a *little* trouble with my #$#@ computer. As a > result, I haven't been able to keep up with anything. I've just heard that a > new "Tori Hating" website has popped up. Does anyone have the URL? I'd like > to see what this person has to say about Tori. Many thanks in advance. > > Mickey > Smegma, Dogmatagram, fishmarket stew Police in the corner, Gunnin' for you Apple toast, bedheated, furblanket rat laugh when they shoot you, say "Please don't do that" -Tom Marshall ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:31:19 -0400 (EDT) From: DanKitti99@aol.com Subject: Re: Boys and the other Girls In a message dated 97-04-10 06:15:00 EDT, you write: > That's exactly what I think. If somebody had asked me what style of music Tori' > s is > *before* the release of BfP, I'd have had difficulties saying that it was > pop- meanwhile But, how could you classify anything as being 'pop'? How would you define that? > I think it's pretty right, and I don't thing that's a change for the better. > Of course > the more "modern" songs show how many, many musical possibilities Tori has > to express > her message and I wouldn't call them bad (I do like the groovy ones like LA & > ITSOHV), > but they've lost something touching the earlier songs had. Of course, Tori just can't do songs the same way every time. I see what you mean about the big We'll seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee thingie, and it has been suggested that Little Earthquakes is one of the best CDs to have sex to because (as one rmta-er put it) there's an orgasm in every song. You just can't expect every Tori CD to be a carbon copy of the ones that came before it. And of course I agree with the different musical possibilities Tori has to express, altho' it is a LITTLE ironic to talk about "modern" music in an album featuring the harpsichord. :-) But I know what you meant. I don't see BfP as being the weakest of the Tori albums, and I don't see it as the strongest either. I just like all of Tori's albums. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:31:59 -0400 (EDT) From: DanKitti99@aol.com Subject: Re: Angie Dickensen In a message dated 97-04-10 06:15:00 EDT, you write: > WeirdyBoy@aol.com wrote: > > > > Angie was abused by her husband and she hid it well. > > I think that's what Tori was referring to in the song. > > maybe...? > > exactly correct. Tori is pretending that she is not being beaten in > this song. It's about a woman trying to get out of an abusive > relationship. I disagree. And I am surprised at all the people think the song is about abuse. There is really nothing to suggest the song is about a woman who is IN a relationship. More like a woman who is recently out of a relationship. I keep reading things by people who think that 'putting the damage on'means (a) abuse (damage) of some kind, or some kind of put-on, someone pretending to be hurt. The song does not seem to have anything to do with the fact that Angie Dickinson has great legs. I'm just mentioning that because, um, well, she DOES!!! :-) Angie Dickinson, and this has been said before, as Police Woman, er what was her name, Ginger, Paprika, Allspice, was a very strong woman at a time when women on TV were not as strong as her. She was not the stereotypical frail female. (ok, Pepper. She played Pepper!). THAT is what Tori is trying to emulate. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:02:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark William Biscomb Subject: Re: Boys and the other Girls On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Nicolas Neubauer wrote: > Remember listening to Yes, Anastasia and feeling this incredible relief when you finally heard her scream this high-pitched "WEEEELLL SEEEE-EEE-EEE".. I just had to respond back to this one... Nic, RIGHT ON!!! I shuddered even just looking at that on the screen! YA is certainly one of the reasons UTP has become my favorite album. Tori is the Goddess, and... that's all I have to say about that. Peace, Love, and the Goddess-- Mark "Butterfly, they like you better framed and dry..." -T.A. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:12:28 EDT From: sylvia4@juno.com (Amber S Phinney) Subject: pop?? Tori pop? that's weird. she's not classifiable. pop is Gina G and the Spice Girls, frothy, pithy music that appeals to a large mass of people. and i mean freakin' HUGE! not "we can sell out the Fox Theater" but "we can sell out the OMNI" ok? top 40 and shit. and what is it about BfP that makes people think she's "selling out"? she had bigger hits on UtP and LE than BfP (let's not count the dance mixes). she's gotten more obtuse - it takes more work to uncover what her songs really mean. and somehow i just don't see the same people who buy Hootie en masse LIKING BfP!! which is why i am continually confounded by the screaming teenybopper girls at Tori's DDI concerts. i had read about the politeness of Tori's audiences, and when i saw her on her UtP tour, they WERE polite. to quote someone, "you could hear a pin drop." now, MaaG is the time to profess love to "ELLEN." ugh. Dream ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 17:55:55 PDT From: Layne Mateuszow Subject: cute page on the internet... Well, I have just enlightened myself in the world of stupidity. I checked out that awfully cool web page completely devoted to hating Tori & boy, did I learn a lot! I learned how incredibly naive some people actually are in the world today. I also learned that the freedom of speech act should be restricted & only be utilized by those who don't abuse it. One thing I did notice & perhaps others of you have noticed it as well, this person has really done his/her research on Tori & for someone that seems to hate her so much, I find this very bizarre. I must admit, I tried my hardest not to get offended, but it was a little hard to keep my cool at times. I ended up laughing at the ignorance I saw before me. This oh, so intelligent person referred to Tori's music as "mindless babble," well, what, my friend, do you consider your page to be? It certainly isn't made up of complete thoughts or complete anything. Well, enough of my "mindless babble" at least for now. ~Layne * ----------------------------------------------------------------- * | "Caught a lite sneeze, dreamed a little | | dream, made my own pretty hate machine." | | ~ Tori Amos | * ------------------------------------------------------------------ * Layne Mateuszow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:44:12 -0400 From: Sam Free <106247.2224@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Angie Dickensen On th Angie Dickinson topic people have said... > > Angie was abused by her husband and she hid it well. > > I think that's what Tori was referring to in the song. > > maybe...? > Angie Dickinson, and this has been said before, as Police Woman, er what was > her name, Ginger, Paprika, Allspice, was a very strong woman at a time when > women on TV were not as strong as her. She was not the stereotypical frail >female. (ok, Pepper. She played Pepper!). THAT is what Tori is trying to >emulate. I wonder if doing your best Angie Dickinson is pretending you're OK when everything is not OK....so professionally you act out the part of a strong woman and even in your normal life you're still expected to be strong so you hide it well but inside you're really being torn apart? Also its kind of interesting that Angie Dickinson can be remembered as a strong woman rather than the steroetypical frail female or as someone with great legs who was abused by her husband... Hmmmm.... Sam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 21:30:19 -0400 From: mr bean jeans Subject: Re: pop?? also sprach sylvia4@juno.com (Amber S Phinney): >Tori pop? that's weird. she's not classifiable. pop is Gina G and the >Spice Girls, frothy, pithy music that appeals to a large mass of people. "pop" is a term that means many things to many people. to some, it does mean top 40, the mainstream, what's popular. but to others (including me), it is a musical style characterized by melody-heavy, relatively short songs. (yeah, that's a fairly wide category which includes a *lot* of music, but hey....) in this sense, a significant number of tori's songs are "pop". woj ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 21:57:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: pop?? I have no problem with calling the vast majority of Tori's music pop music. Calling it that takes nothing away from it. As in most categorizing and pigeon-holing, though, I don't see how it adds to anything to label it. (Didn't we have this discussion a few short months ago?) I consider Tori a musical titan of this century though, and as with another musical titan, Duke Ellington, (who for the most part during his long and illustrious career which traversed six decades, also composed what most people would consider forms of pop music), I think Tori clearly qualifies as being beyond category. Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:07:09 -0400 From: Sean Gambrel Subject: pop "pop" is short for popular. Sometimes pop is defined by Huey lewis, sometimes by Vanilla Ice, sometimes the Spice Girls. It continually changes with the top 40... Whether tori is "popular" or not is as of yet to be decided. thanks! {}{}{}{}{}{}{SEAN}{}{}{}{}{}{} http://www.geocities.com/vienna/6481 [make sure to check out my Pee-Wee Herman Page!!] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:33:51 -0400 (EDT) From: WeirdyBoy@aol.com Subject: Tori becoming less normal. OK, i'm responding to the post about Boys for Pele being weaker then the other albums and Tori selling out. I think that's insane! Pele is a very hard, raw album, and is nowhere near normal pop music. With songs like Blood Roses, Muhammad My Friend, Little Amsterdam, Talula, Voodoo, Professional Widow, and Mr Zebra...how can anyone think Tori is becoming normal or selling out?????? Pele goes right into the human unconsciousness, it's dripping with Jung. I'd even guess that Jung psychology was Tori's biggest influence on Pele. And he's not mainstream by any means. Anyway, I just think a lot of people, even some of Tori's biggest 'fans' don't comprehend the levels Pele goes to. So it's often dismissed and people lessen it's value or say she's selling out, which is so so far from the reality of it all. ok, that's all for now. ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #100 *************************************