From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #9 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Saturday, January 11 1997 Volume 02 : Number 009 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: vote Tori? (playboy magazine poll) Playboy Small Laugh... Top of the Hill possible rainn benefit simulcast Re: vote Tori? (fwd) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:34:17 EST From: agentorange2@juno.com (Rusty M Shelby) Subject: Re: vote Tori? (playboy magazine poll) ok guys & girls.... like it or not... playboy is a magazine... like it or not... this magazine is having a poll... like it or not... tori is nominated... like it or not... vote if you wish. - -rusty you can reach rusty at: agentorange2@juno.com or agentorange@mindspring.com come see me (& poe) and the pictures i took of her: http://www.enter.net/~husselman/poe.html please help support R.A.I.N.N.: http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/xenomorph/rainn.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 08:55:45 -0600 From: "Bailey, Doug S" Subject: Playboy > Michael L. Whitehead (mikewhy@iglou.com) writes by way of > Delirium's forward about > the playboy vote thing. I tend to agree here. It is > good to see men and women standing up to this kind of > shit. There's so much garbage we're forced to swallow by > the media, etc., and we certainly don't need to have > playboy readers validate tori. If you want "in" on the Playboy debate, look to the RDT list, where it's thriving like few other threads have. Let's not bore this list with more debate on the subject... Doug ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:05:51 -0600 From: mangold Subject: Small Laugh... has anyone ever listened to the very last part of Talula? at the very end Tori gives this little laugh, it's sooooo cute, i love it! listen to it, it makes the song even better than before. ~UnderTall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:23:12 BST From: Doron Vidavski Subject: Top of the Hill Good day! Watch out for Top of the Pops tonight (Friday, 7.30pm, BBC1) because Tori is going to be on it! On Radio 1's chart hour, Mark Goodier said that Tori was going to be on it, due to her recent No.2 chart entry, though he didn't specify whether it was going to be a screening of the video or a performance via sattelite (though I think we can make a pretty safe guess about which one it is actually going to be). Further, could anyone please advise me whether Tori actually did cover Kate's "Running up that Hill" sometime on the Dew Drop Inn tour? Toodles, Doron, Manchester. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:38:54 -0500 From: mr bean jeans Subject: possible rainn benefit simulcast forwarded from torinews. if anything comes of this, i'll be sure to forward the details here as well. woj >From: Mike Harris > >Guys, > >I thought you might want to know that the people at Lifetime Online are >hoping to simulcast, using RealAudio, a few songs from the Madison Square >Garden concert on their Web site. It is still tentative, however, because >they are still working out some copyright issues. > >Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:29:01 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Holmes Subject: Re: vote Tori? (fwd) Whoa, I must have touched a nerve here! Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes, and I think everyone's entitled to their opinion! I did want to offer encouragement and support for those who were brave enough to voice "feminist" opinions on a list which isn't explicitly for this topic. Most people who hold these opinions are afraid to say what they feel, for fear of getting flamed into oblivion. So often people like myself feel that they can't really say what we think of society, and just keep to our own little social groups. I don't want to incite a flame fest - I was rather impressed with the handling of this topic on the list. I didn't think what I said was *that* radical or obnoxious, really. Bear in mind that I am an outcast from popular culture (I do hang on some lists where my ideas are more accepted), and I'm aware that as a result of withdrawing from the bulk of what I consider to be trash, my tolerance for BS is very low. I've spent a lot of time trying to peel away the effects of the stereotyping, hyper-scientific rationalism, manipulative spirituality, consumer mentality, you-name-it -- from my psyche. I know I'm weird, please bear with me ... I believe that the world we live in systematically desensitizes us to other's pains (among other things)... and since tori is so involved with anti-abuse efforts, well, I didn't think my opinion would be that off-base (or controversial) for discussion. Playboy is not a special peeve or my personal devil, it is simply part of the cultural philosophy I choose to reject, as are many of the other things James mentioned (e.g., Soldier of Fortune, MTV, VH1). I see Playboy as an *example* of the philosophies, stereotypes, and indoctrination which I reject. I see artists like Tori as breaking cultural indoctrination, seeking sources of deep inspiration and sharing them with their fans. I'll now clarify a few points that I guess James was confused or upset about -- ***THIS IS NOT A FLAME*** -- just a small attempt that people may understand where I'm coming from. I certainly don't *expect* people to agree with me (hey, I've been around a while). > If Playboy magazine makes you uncomfortable in any way I urge > you to get over it and find something actually *worthy* of > your discomfort. _True Action Detective_ anyone? How about > _Fangora_? Or _Soldier of Fortune_? There is always a greater atrocity; "Don't sweat the little things" is the mantra used to maintain the status quo. It is a well known diversionary technique to point to the "greater evil", or that the real problem is somewhere else, some other time, and not here and now. Beleive me, I'm used to being uncomfortable with things as they are. I'm also used to celebrating the ecstatic fires of life and inspiration that this world *does* provide with all my heart and soul. Such is life ;-) > Bullshit! > > I'm *ABSOLUTELY* certain that this phenomenon would not be > even *REMOTELY* affec ted by whether or not there existed a > Playboy magazine. Yes, sadly, Playboy is but one manifestation of the greater social consciousness (well, one aspect of it). I'm agreeing with you here. > It is rude & sexist to leer at women on the street. It is > *not* a victimization of women that MILLIONS of people > worldwide like to gaze at the image of _woman_ uncovered. > > Richard> On the flip side, if you're not a barbie / playmate > Richard> clone, or past a certain age, you're "invisible" despite > Richard> your credentials... > > Playboy has absolutely nothing to do with this effect either. > > Sorry. Find a new (_real_) enemy. Playboy isn't it. Alas, I don't need to *find* an "enemy". They are often uninvited. I will say that as far as "the media" is concerned, it is a chicken-and-egg effect. It is not precisely correct to state that "Playboy has absolutely nothing to do with this effect", just as it is not correct to state that Playboy caused it. But the effect is there, nonetheless. James, I apologize if I offended you in some way; it was unintentional. I was merely sharing an opinion. Later, - -Richard. @ \@/ Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) @ | @ \|/ " 'The Book of History has many missing pages' @ | Murmurs the Madonna of the Middle Ages @ , , | , , But in between her cracks you can read between the lines @ ' ' ' ' ' She'd love nothing beter than to rob the Louvre blind @ Baroque and complicated, her lovers never stay @ It looks like Mona Lisa is having a bad day... " @ - Michelle Shocked, "Looks Like Mona Lisa.." (on Captain Swing) @ @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush / Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra @ Laura Love / Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros @ Sarah McLachlan \ Libana / Danielle Dax \ Dog Faced Hermans ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #9 ***********************************