From: owner-precious-things-digest To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V1 #221 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Wednesday, 6 November 1996 Volume 01 : Number 221 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re Red Baron Introduction/Alamo question Hey there, hi there, ho there Re: Agent Orange Re: precious-things-digest V1 #220 Not The Red Baron not the red baron, i'm sure, not charlie's wonderful dog "Stuff" has moved.. Not the Red Baron Re: Not the Red Baron Re: not the red baron, i'm sure, not charlie's wonderful dog Re: not the red baron, i'm sure, not charlie's wonderful dog Re: not the red baron onto Baker, Baker Re: not the red baron, i'm sure, not charlie's wonderful dog Boulde tics.... Re: not the red baron, i'm sure, not charlie's wonderful dog Hy guys & The Anastasia connection... Re: not the red baron, i'm sure, not charlie's wonderful dog Re: not the red baron, i'm sure, not charlie's wonderful dog Red Baron/Angie Dickinson related songs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kerry White Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:40:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re Red Baron Hi, > > Maybe you guys can help me?!?! In "Not the Red Baron" what does the guy > in the begining say to Tori? It really bothers me I can't understand him. Two dutch engineers in the recording area: Tori hears: Tori has them repeat it. Stay tuned for those with the transcript and translation.8-) KrW Help wanted? Inquire within ------------------------------ From: Ewald Katherine Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 2:44:15 EST Subject: Introduction/Alamo question Hi everyone! My name is Katherine and I joined the list a couple of hours ago, and this is my first posting. Here is my question: What are those foreign words that Tori sings in Alamo? Are they Spanish? I love that song and I want to know their meaning. Thanks, Katherine ************************************* but I can see that star when she twinkles and she twinkles ************************************* ------------------------------ From: Traumachik@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:36:00 -0500 Subject: Hey there, hi there, ho there Hello all! This is my first post to this particular Tori list, and I had a bunch of questions I wasn't sure if anyone knew the answer to. 1) A while ago I got a photo of Greg Dulli (from the Afghan Whigs) hugging Tori. Since my boyfriend and I have been mistook for Greg and Tori at different points. We want this for our Christmas cards, and if anyone knows where this picture came from, I would love to know. 2)I just got a bitchin' disc by The Blue Up? and on the inner label the lead singer thanks Tori. Did this band open for Tori at some point, or is there another connexion to Tori? 3) How do I get in touch with the publicists for Pet? Okay, so it was by no means a bunch, but if anyone knows the answers, please let me know! - --Chelsea.xx ------------------------------ From: agentorange2@juno.com (Rusty M Shelby) Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 10:31:00 EST Subject: Re: Agent Orange >Does anyone know the full words for Agent. Orange?? >Its not in the CD >Scott i feel it most appropriate that i answer this question! :) for what ever reason, the words are not in the cd booklet, they are however, in the song book. this is what is printed on page 14: Agent Orange gotta tell you what i heard from Agent Orange Mister Suntan Mister Happy Man Mister I know all the girls on all the world tours Mister Agent he'd my favorite and they don't understand he's got palm oil fans yes he's down and there and everywhere he's getting an A to Z an underwater city where he swims and swims - -rusty ------------------------------ From: "J. Hustadt" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:38:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: precious-things-digest V1 #220 O.K guys.. this is what it is.. or at least this is what I've heard. Tori had some studio guys bringing in some equipment, and in the background she thought it was a good intro for the song. So she recorded over their background voices. They asked her what language they should talk in and she says "dutch" to match up with the song. So the guys are babling in english talking about equipment or what have you. What is everyone's opinion about this song? It's my favorite from BFP. It think it's about A.I.D.S. ... the pretiest red ribbons... Jen. ------------------------------ From: Ewald Katherine Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 10:49:02 EST Subject: Not The Red Baron I too think Not The Red Baron the most beautiful song....a lot of people have told me that they think it is boring, but it is so sad and ties for my favorite song off of BfP with "Twinkle." I never really thought about it as being about AIDS, though...but that is a good way to look at it. I think of it was a song about tragedies that aren't supposed to happen, bad things that happen to good people. "Not Judy G," the "All-American girl" and "Not Charlie's wonderful dog." I think that this song is for her beloved Poppa, and I think of my own. :) Katherine " ------------------------------ From: Laurie-Wan Kenobi Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:19:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: not the red baron, i'm sure, not charlie's wonderful dog On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, J. Hustadt wrote: > What is everyone's opinion about this song? It's my favorite from BFP. > It think it's about A.I.D.S. ... the pretiest red ribbons... Well, hello everyone. This is my first post, so i'm not sure if i'm doing it right, but i guess i'll find out. Tori said, in numerous interviews, and i believe, that the song is about compassion. You know, when you're breaking up with someone and you just wanna hit them, because they've hurt you so badly--that would be Precious Things. Then after Precious Things comes Baker Baker, when you (well, okay, Tori) realises that you are also doing stuff to the other person, hurting them. Then the song after that would be Not the Red Baron, when you can realise that the other person is in pain too, and that they need to deal with their pain, and they have to go off to do that. Okay, here the part where i bring the lyrics in. "think i got the message figured, another pilot down" She's finally figured out what they've been trying to tell her, and the pilot is a metaphor for the man in the relationship. Another one has been shot down. "and are their devils with halos taking them into the flames?" She's not the only one with devils... "not Judy G, not Jean Jean Jean with a hallowed heart i see that screen go down in the flames with every step, with every beautiful heel pointed" You know those old movies with the beautiful women who would prey on the men, with the men who never realised that such a thing could be done? She imagined (i'm taking this from lots of interviews) these beautiful women coming and taking these very sad men off into their own personal hell. Think of it as Hollywood fantasy, everything's ridicuously prefect, and then the illusion crumbles, and you're left seeing things as they really are, a burning screen, and the flames are licking at their heels, and the picture fades. But it ends with these lines: "maybe i'll just sing him a last little sound" which means (to me) that she's singing them to sleep, sort of, a lullaby. i mean, you can't do anything to make it better once they get to that place where they have to deal with things, but you can do your best not to make it worse. This is my interpretation of the song, and i think it's _pretty much_ what Tori meant, because i've more or less taken it directly from interviews (i said that already! agh! 8) ). hi everybody! -=-laurie ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: I love the dream that you've begun :: :: beneath the evergreen :: :: I love the pebble and the sun :: :: and all that's in between :: :: -=-Leonard Cohen :: :: Into the air, into the earth, into the fire. I am with you. :: :: -=-Orson Scott Card :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ------------------------------ From: Grendel The Reduplicated Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:14:54 +0000 (GMT) Subject: "Stuff" has moved.. If anyone reads this still! .. "Stuff Is The Issue" has both moved servers and gained a new host name. If you're linked to it, please update the link to.. http://toristuff.home.ml.org This is an alias. If you have trouble connecting to it, you can go direct using the rather more long-winded... http://www.cus.umist.ac.uk/~grendel/tori/tori.html Cheers Paul ============================================================================ "Ah'm comin' home Newcastle, ah wish ah'd nivvor been away, ah'd waalk the streets aal day, aal neet for a bottle of your own brown ale" - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- O O St Aidan's College, University Of Durham, UK. | Revamped homepage : http://www.dur.ac.uk/~d550du \___/ Official net.toriphile ' "Stuff Is The Issue" : http://toristuff.home.ml.org/ ============================================================================ ------------------------------ From: "we go at eachother like blank ettes..." Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 13:19:53 EST Subject: Not the Red Baron I had always figured that the song was about death. Not of someone you know, but of someone that you never really looked at before, someone that you never knew...soldiers dying in war, people dying of AIDS, that you just happened to read about in the newspaper or see on television ~not anyone i really know, just another pilot down~ i could be wrong, and i probably am...just the way interpreted it...i never really liked this song until i found it going through my head one day when i wasn't feeling all too happy with the way my music was going, or my classes were going...and it pulled me out of it i think that its a song, somewhat - maybe, about selfishness and realisation of things that you wouldn't normally be thinking about...and death of a stranger being the biggest thing ~and are their devils with halos in beautiful capes~ nothing is as it seems, you see...and you never really knew what was going on at all..so they could be anyone really that's all ~jordan~swimming with butterflies~ ******************************************************************************** inside my head my dog's a bear she was significant, and i'm insane --sonic.youth-- ******************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Jewpiter Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 19:37:23 +0200 Subject: Re: Not the Red Baron > >Maybe you guys can help me?!?! In "Not the Red Baron" what does the guy > >in the begining say to Tori? It really bothers me I can't understand him. > > I've always wondered about it too. The extent of my knowledge is that there > is not actually a person talking to Tori (that we can hear) but that there > is a recording of two dutch pilots speaking (in dutch). Tori seems to be > talking to someone in the background about the recording (Tori says: "What > Language?" Person who we can't hear suggests something and then Tori says > "No, Dutch."). Has anyone managed to translate the tape or at least figure > out what it is generally about? > > Will The two Dutch pilots r actually Rob Van Tuin & Marcel Van Limbeek who worked on BfP. They talked from the other side of the studio's looking glass mirror to add a special effect. They supposidely just babbled in Dutch, seeing's how they're Dutch and all. Jewpiter. Sig file lost due to Win95 collapse. Thanks Bill! ------------------------------ From: Kristina L Goetz Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:43:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: not the red baron, i'm sure, not charlie's wonderful dog I've always thought and heard that Baker, Baker is the "sequel" to Me and a Gun, that it is about healing and finding your whole self again after a violent experience. Kristina ------------------------------ From: Laurie-Wan Kenobi Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:58:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: not the red baron, i'm sure, not charlie's wonderful dog On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Kristina L Goetz wrote: > I've always thought and heard that Baker, Baker is the "sequel" to Me and > a Gun, that it is about healing and finding your whole self again after a > violent experience. Well, yes. All the songs seem to lead into the others. I think of Not the Red Baron as the sequel to Baker Baker as the sequel to Precious Things, but that's only my opinion. It would be interesting to hear what songs everyone thinks are sequels. Ones i can think of now: Ode to the Banana King, Pretty Good Year (i have no idea HOW these two are related, except that they both have Lucy in them) Mother, God, Father Lucifer, Muhammed My Friend I can't think of any more right now. But i would be really interested in hearing what you think! -=-laurie ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: I love the dream that you've begun :: :: beneath the evergreen :: :: I love the pebble and the sun :: :: and all that's in between :: :: -=-Leonard Cohen :: :: Into the air, into the earth, into the fire. I am with you. :: :: -=-Orson Scott Card :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ------------------------------ From: "Gogo Dodo, the unofficial Wackyland goodwill ambassador" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:26:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: not the red baron onto Baker, Baker > On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Kristina L Goetz wrote: > > I've always thought and heard that Baker, Baker is the "sequel" to Me and > a Gun, that it is about healing and finding your whole self again after a > violent experience. Kristina, Talking about "Baker, Baker" reminded me of the "Tea with the Waitress" interview (courtesy of The Church of Tori website) that Tori did on the radio with Bob Waugh, at WHFS FM in Baltimore. I won't say that the song _doesn't_ have to do with what you say it does, but this bit below is just an add-on, another interpretation: - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob: The other extreme, "Baker, Baker" is another song from _Under_the_Pink_ that is a beautiful ballad; kind of in the "Silent All These Years" vein, would you say? Tori: I mean... I think my ballads kinda' come from the same girl. So, you know what I mean? She shows up and says, "Ok, I'll kind of give you one." And this girl... "Baker, Baker" is something I haven't really explored before. Because it's me letting down a male. Usually I'm talking about men letting me down. And this is another thing that I had to be honest about. Which is that I've been emotionally unavailable to certain men in my life that are very, very loving and very giving. You know, we talk a lot about how women are so giving and men are emotionally unavailable. Well, that's not always true. "Baker, Baker" kinda makes me really sad. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- - - Maria ------------------------------ From: Kristina L Goetz Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:15:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: not the red baron, i'm sure, not charlie's wonderful dog I really can't think of any off hand. I know that the Banana King songs are related because of the Lucy factor, so what aboit Neil? Tear in Your Hand, Space Dog and Horses???? On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Laurie-Wan Kenobi wrote: > Ones i can think of now: > Ode to the Banana King, Pretty Good Year (i have no idea HOW these > two are related, except that they both have Lucy in them) > Mother, God, Father Lucifer, Muhammed My Friend > > I can't think of any more right now. But i would be really interested in > hearing what you think! > -=-laurie > > > ------------------------------ From: Drewkt@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:09:28 -0500 Subject: Boulde tics.... If anyone is interested, I have 6th row tickets for the last show for sale...e-mail me directly... kate drewkt@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "J. Hustadt" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:34:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: not the red baron, i'm sure, not charlie's wonderful dog O.K -- I see your point. I heard from an interview that BFP was going to have an A.I.D.S song.. and the red ribbons gave it away. "not anyone i really know... just another pilot down" as in I don't know anyone with A.I.D.S but the pilots (strong people) are being shot down. "taking them to the flames" dying. maybe it is a mixture.. there may a hint of what I'm saying..., and I appreciate what you're saying. JEn. ------------------------------ From: Carla Carmelo Rosa Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:37:03 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Hy guys & The Anastasia connection... Another Toridependent on the list... First of all HY! Tori Post following is being a really pleasure. I have to explain I'm also very dependent on mailing lists. Why?, you may ask, the fact is being a Tori lover on the other side of the Atlantic, specially in Portugal, it's not very easy. You see, I just can follow her by your descriptions; the bee-sides thing, except for Nice NetFriendships I've made, the concerts, the gossips, it wouldn't be the same without them. You know, Tori is not going to come back to Europe with her Dew Drop Inn tour. And we have to wait two years, right? It's true, she deserves the best rest in the world :) OK, now the question: I've been meditating about 'Anastasia'. I love this particular song, for the mysticism i can't find. Is there any connection with the so called American Anastasia Romanov? I know her story was cleared, but the references... 'thought I've been trough this in 1919, counting the tears of ten thousand men...' Any suggestion? Thanks, again. I'll be by here... "sometimes i hear my voice, and it's been here, silent all these years..." Carla:) *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* 0/'''\0 "... I really like Human beings who have suffered. | o o | They're kinder. I mean. If you've suffered and done \_~_/ some work on it." ->Emma Thompson O== o ==O ( ] [ ) "...show me the ways to button up buttons that have () () forgotten they're buttons..." ->Tori Amos *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* Carla Carmelo Rosa ---------------------------- L36658@alfa.ist.utl.pt *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* ------------------------------ From: "J. Hustadt" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:36:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: not the red baron, i'm sure, not charlie's wonderful dog I think space dog , winter and frog on my toe are a trio of sorts. It took me a year to figure out space dog. I think Mr. Microphone is her father. JEn. ------------------------------ From: "J. Hustadt" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:39:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: not the red baron, i'm sure, not charlie's wonderful dog I think Neil is just a character (a source) that comes in when he needs too. Can you make the same analogy with Precious Things, Past The Mission and Caught A Lite Sneeze (i.e. TRENT REZNOR NIN?) These songs are all different and yet they all have trent. I think the same goes for neil. Jen. On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Kristina L Goetz wrote: > I really can't think of any off hand. I know that the Banana King songs > are related because of the Lucy factor, so what aboit Neil? Tear in Your > Hand, Space Dog and Horses???? > > > On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Laurie-Wan Kenobi wrote: > > Ones i can think of now: > > Ode to the Banana King, Pretty Good Year (i have no idea HOW these > > two are related, except that they both have Lucy in them) > > Mother, God, Father Lucifer, Muhammed My Friend > > > > I can't think of any more right now. But i would be really interested in > > hearing what you think! > > -=-laurie > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From: Sam Free <106247.2224@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:40:14 -0500 Subject: Red Baron/Angie Dickinson Hi everyone, This is my first go at this so I hope its OK :) What is the Angie Dickinson reference all about? I'm from London so I've heard of A.D. but don't know anything about her. This has been bugging me for ages. I asked an American friend who told me she played a detective in a 70s TV show but now she campaigns for the rights of avacados ??? Sorry if you've all discussed this before. On the Not the Red Baron topic, when Tori played Portsmouth here in the UK she segued Red Baron into an improvisation about the Dunblane shooting (on the day of the show a tragedy occurred in Dunblane, Scotland where a gunman broke into a kindergarten class and killed many of the children) which would suggest that Red Baron is, at least in part, about the death of someone you never really knew. What she sang was beautiful. The lyrics were: "Just another pilot down Children down in the village town Just another down Yesterday they were playing somewhere safe yes Just another down And the teacher in her pretty gown" She then segued into Amazing Grace followed by Happy Phantom. Precious Things is great! - I only joined yesterday. Is there any kind of archive? Thanks Sam ------------------------------ From: Sam Free <106247.2224@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:59:35 -0500 Subject: related songs There are too many related Tori song to list! What about Bobby - he gets around - and then there's those bees and gumdrops and Saturdays and cherry trees that seem to crop up with him...that'll get you Girl, Sugar, Black Swan, Butterfly, Sister Janet, Marianne, Toodles Mr. Jim and probably a few others. Do you think songs with purple things are all related ? Purple panties (TTTS), monkeys (Marianne) and are those purple garters?? in the background in Father Lucifer? I wonder if songs are related musically as well as lyrically - Girl and Father Lucifer seem to go together musically and what about China/Jupiter/Damage? Sam ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V1 #221 *************************************