From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V7 #190 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Saturday, August 24 2002 Volume 07 : Number 190 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Copy protection [Nadyne Mielke ] Re: RAINN fundraisers [Nadyne Mielke ] Re: Ftch vs TVaB vs SLG (long!) ["cdrv" ] Re: Ripping MP3s ["*** Vicki ***" ] RE: Ripping MP3s ["ForgottenSecret" ] Re: Ripping MP3s [mikegray@btinternet.com] more radio tori [guapo stick ] copy protection, play protection, and magic markers [Abbe J Cohen ] growin' up mp3 [guapo stick ] Re: copy protection, play protection, and magic markers [Brian K Tanaka <] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:26:15 -0700 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: Copy protection At 00:02 23-08-02 +0100, Mike Gray wrote: >I can only hope that they realise it's more trouble than it's worth. Which means that we, as consumers, have to make sure that it's more trouble than it's worth. If you buy a CD and it turns out to be copy-protected, make sure you call everyone involved with that disc and complain. Call the record store, and call the record company. Write letters to 'em too. (Email is good, but snailmail gets more attention.) The more of a fuss we kick up, the less likely it is that they'll continue to do it. /nm {who owns both an iPod and 700 CDs ... } ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:21:16 -0700 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: RAINN fundraisers At 12:59 22-08-02 -0400, Gidefab@aol.com wrote: >Bottom line: it's a lot harder and less rewarding than expected. If you have >advice, send it to Kelley to share with next year's hosts. If you want to >help, get a group of people in your area. There was also some articles in Little Blue World's fifth issue. If you're thinking of doing a birthday party next year, whether it's a big bash or a small get-together, you might be interested in checking that out. We would also welcome reader submissions from people who ran parties and would like to offer tips up to folks who host a fundraiser next year. You can get more info about how to make a submission at the website above. Nadyne. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 02:35:04 -0300 From: "cdrv" Subject: Re: Ftch vs TVaB vs SLG (long!) funny! :) The same here, after reading Peter post I listened to TV&B again, after a really long time... :) Daniel - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew DeWaal" To: "'p.m.'" Cc: "Precious Things" Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 10:25 PM Subject: RE: Ftch vs TVaB vs SLG (long!) > peter, > > you made me listen to choirgirl again today. thank you.* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 03:22:17 -0500 From: "*** Vicki ***" Subject: Re: Ripping MP3s Hey All, I haven't tried this myself so please take this with a grain of salt... I'm sure most of the time this works just fine, but I have heard that sometimes it will actually ruin the CD and make it completely unplayable. So, I guess depending on if you are willing to possibly lose a CD this may or may not be the way to go. *sigh* When did listening to music become soooo complicated. :( Vicki >From: "micah b" > >Ok here's how to rip the MP3s off of the protected CDs without buying >another program. The outer rim of the CD contains information that the CD >keeps checking and what is stored there is causing the ripping to screw up. >You can go down to the store and buy a magic marker and scribble out the >outer rim of the CD, place it in your drive & Blammo! You can now play it >on your Mac or rip mp3s for your own enjoyment! (had to throw in the Mac >reference, because Macs are awesome!!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:55:48 +0100 From: "ForgottenSecret" Subject: RE: Ripping MP3s Even though Strange Little Girls was protected I still managed to rip my copy onto my hardrive with Musicmatch BUT if you rip the songs into WMA format, when you try to play the song it will try and go to WMA website to make you buy a liscence to own the rights to rip and play it on your computer Strange how it was ok with MP3 and not WMA though! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:31:16 +0100 (BST) From: mikegray@btinternet.com Subject: Re: Ripping MP3s Attempting to copy a CD *cannot* physical harm it, be that copying it to MP3 or any a straight 1:1 copy. The rumour is probably derived from the problem that Imacs have with Key2Audio discs, which can lead to them being unable to eject the disc, requiring the machine to be serviced. I think there's a software workaround, but I'm not certain. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:09:41 -0700 From: guapo stick Subject: more radio tori couple upcoming radio thinigies gleaned from the dent: pittsburgh's wyep will be debuting "a sorta fairytale" today, august 23rd, around noon eastern time. as far as we know, tori will not be making an appearance on wyep. the netherlands' kinkfm will be broadcasting a 2 meter session with tori on sunday, august 25th. it's unknown if this is a new session or a repeat of a previous one. according to kinkfm's website, the program airs from noon to 3pm local time (cet, i presume). i doubt the entire program will be tori. kinkfm has an ogg vorbis stream (ogg is a open source alternative to mp3; lots of information about it at ). woj ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:56:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Abbe J Cohen Subject: copy protection, play protection, and magic markers one minor point and one major point on this whole enhanced and copy-protected thing: 1) Mike Gray just said that attempting to copy a CD can't harm it, but I think the person who said that you could risk damaging your CD wasn't talking about attempting to copy it by some digital means, but about attempting to get around copy protection by drawing on the rim of the CD with a magic marker before you put it into the computer in the first place. I think Mike will agree that if you scribble on the wrong part of a CD with a Sharpie marker then you can pretty easily ruin the CD. :) But simply putting the CD into the computer and trying to get data off of it can't damage the CD... 2) It drives me nuts that the record companies and media and music consumers keep calling it copy protection, as if somehow the scheme can magically tell whether you're trying to copy the CD or to listen to it. Guess what? both copying the CD and listening to the CD require the computer to read the data on the CD, and what they call copy protection is really play protection - they're selling CDs that won't play on a computer. I've never copied data off of any record-company-copyrighted CD using my computer, but I put officially released CDs into my computer all the time - to listen to the CDs I own and purchased. It's not copy protection, it's selling CDs that intentionally can't be played by a good percentage of the devices that are designed to play them, and it annoys me that they've managed to get the world to think that they've found some magic bullet that keeps people from copying the CD but will never affect any of us well-behaved citizens. - --Abbe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 18:30:39 +0100 From: "Mike Gray" Subject: Re: copy protection, play protection, and magic markers > 1) Mike Gray just said that attempting to copy a CD can't harm it, but > I think the person who said that you could risk damaging your CD > wasn't talking about attempting to copy it by some digital means, but > about attempting to get around copy protection by drawing on the rim of the > CD with a magic marker before you put it into the computer in the > first place. I think Mike will agree that if you scribble on the > wrong part of a CD with a Sharpie marker then you can pretty easily > ruin the CD. :) But simply putting the CD into the computer and trying > to get data off of it can't damage the CD... Correct. The key to using the magic marker trick is to make sure you *don't* scribble on the final audio track. The problem is that more recent Key2Audio protected discs don't seem to have the obvious circle round them which shows where the data track and audio track end. (I'm taking Aerosmith's 'Oh Yeah' Greatest Hits CD as my example, as for various reasons I happen to have a Key2Audio protected UK copy hanging round the place) - I'm unsure whether this is deliberate to stop the magic marker trick, or it's just because this is a particularly long playing couple of discs. If you've got a PC, as I say, the magic marker trick is unnecessary, even if you don't have a writer - just use CloneCD from www.elby.de to read the disc to an image file, making sure that you select "audio CD" and then from the properties menu "only read first session", you can then use Daemon Tools (www.daemon-tools.com) to mount the image as a virtual CD and rip the audio files off the virtual drive as you would with any CD. You can then unmount the virtual drive, delete the image and have your MP3s as normal... Feurio CD writing software can also be told to ignore the second session, incidentally. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 13:12:04 -0500 From: "*** Vicki ***" Subject: Re: Ripping MP3s Hello again, >From: mikegray@btinternet.com > >Attempting to copy a CD *cannot* physical harm it, be that copying it to >MP3 or any a straight 1:1 copy. > >The rumour is probably derived from the problem that Imacs have with >Key2Audio discs, which can lead to them being unable to eject the disc, >requiring the machine to be serviced. I think there's a software >workaround, but I'm not certain. Oops, I guess I didn't clarify what I was refering to. I meant using a marker to line the outside edge of the CD could harm it. Sorry if I confused anyone. Vicki "Even a genius can have an off day." - Wile E. Coyote ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 15:05:17 -0700 From: guapo stick Subject: growin' up mp3 so, i've been listening to the old tori shows i recorded lately and stumbled across the october 22, 1994 show at storrs, ct. for a number of dumb reasons, i don't think i've ever listened to it since the show itself (long story) so i'd completely forgotten that this was one of (if not the only) show where she played bruce springsteen's "growin' up"! so, i cooked up a mp3 which you can now get from diagnosed sounds: http://www.hereinmyhead.com/sounds/utp.html a million thanks to audrey for the webspace! woj ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 17:43:56 -0700 From: Brian K Tanaka Subject: Re: copy protection, play protection, and magic markers Abbe J Cohen typed the following words: ... > It's not copy protection, it's selling CDs that intentionally can't > be played by a good percentage of the devices that are designed to > play them, and it annoys me that they've managed to get the world > to think that they've found some magic bullet that keeps people > from copying the CD but will never affect any of us well-behaved > citizens. ... Right. Which brings up an important component of the larger controversy: "fair use". If you saunter down to your local record store and shell out $18.00 or so for a CD, how much freedom should you be able to exercise over playing the music and how much should the record industry be allowed to define the boundaries of that freedom? Can you play it in your home? In your car? On your portable player? On your computer? Someone once told me that the artist receives only a very very small percentage from the sale of each CD. (They make a larger chunk of their overall income from, say, touring.) I don't know if this is true, but if it is then this is a very strange situation indeed. In the course of the record industry protecting its profits, not "the interests of the artists", we, the consumers, lose what could be argued the rights for fair use purchased when the happy (or glum) clerk rang us up at the register. One way of looking at all this is: the cat's out of the bag and it's big and crafty and won't go back. Instead of trying to shove the cat back into the bag (cd copy prevention, limited-use downloadable music, blah blah blah), the record industry needs to figure out how to adapt to a world that has changed around them. Fighting a guerilla war with many thousands of increasingly technically-savvy and, um, enthusiastic music fans is doomed to failure (or rather a never-ending series of failures as barriers come up and then are subverted) and will just piss off the very people to whom they want to sell stuff. What would this new, better adapted, world of music distribution look like? I don't know, but I would hope it would be generous to the artists and it's looking an awful lot like we're far from the right track so far. Um, now will someone please help me down from this soapbox? ;-) - -- - -- -bt - -- ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V7 #190 *************************************