From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V7 #59 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Friday, March 15 2002 Volume 07 : Number 059 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: precious-things-digest V7 #58 [Dracovixen@aol.com] Re: radio [Dracovixen@aol.com] Re: precious-things-digest V7 #58 [JNe9027355@aol.com] Re: first listen of Tori [Dracovixen@aol.com] Re: precious-things-digest V7 #58 [JNe9027355@aol.com] Re: Tori marketing [Richard Handal ] Re: How I got into Tori... [echoes@atlantic.devin.com] Re: Tori marketing ["Mike Gray" ] How I was introd' to Tori ["Missy" ] How I found Tori ... ["centaur" ] Re: Tori marketing ["William Wilson" ] Re: precious-things-digest V7 #58 ["Tom xxxxx" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:39:08 EST From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: Re: precious-things-digest V7 #58 In a message dated 3/14/02 1:22:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: << To go mainstream does not always mean a change in the way tori writes or performs her music. Many artists simply "catch on" with the general public without changing their tune. I cannot stand it when people automatically assume underground artists to be "sellouts" should they hit it big and get a #1 record, and it sounds like a few people on this list would be disgusted if Their Tori turned into Everyone's Tori. personsally, i think it would be great for tori to break into the mainstream and reach the minds of young girls (and young boys, let's not be sexist here) who are currently singing along to britany spears. ~~jb >> This is exactly what happened with Garbage. No plans to make it big, the public just went to them, and boom, they were mainstream. And despite the obvious talent on their latest release, they have fallen back, unlike their contemporary "female-fronted-band-who-hit-it-big" No Doubt...who...well...maybe I'm biased, but even though I respect the crossover attempt they've made, the album makes my stomach sour. Black Dove ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:35:12 EST From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: Re: radio In a message dated 3/14/02 1:22:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: << Well, radio is, for the most part, mainstream. We know that Tori is not (and presumably does not want to be) mainstream. >> Don't forget college radio! College radio is made for playing underground music, and is often where every big name is first heard. Even the Beatles were a college radio staple before they made it big. At my station, Tori's latest album was in rotation, and this year, it will be so again! :) Black Dove ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:50:04 EST From: JNe9027355@aol.com Subject: Re: precious-things-digest V7 #58 In a message dated 3/13/02 10:22:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > > How do each of us measure success? In terms of having > a big name, in terms of worldwide success - Madonna, The > Beatles, Michael Jackson are the biggest fish in the pond. Tori > is a small fish. But she is IN the same pond. Those three have > proven themselves powerhouses, they are stars. Good for them. > But at what cost? I must wonder if T would like that level of > success? No privacy. Cameras, fans (some unstable), follow you > wherever you go. They follow your children wherever they go. > That's scary. At what cost do you achieve success? Tori has been > happy playing her piano, writing her music and singing her songs; > Is it enough to be able to do that AND have a peaceful private > happy home life? I think so. In Cornwall T can come and go as > she pleases, she and the clan are left alone. That sounds so much > better to me than paparazzi hiding in trees hoping to catch Guy > Ritchie taking baby Rocco for a walk in London. (People mag.) I > am fiercely protective of my privacy. I've seen T play to 50 people > and play to packed arenas. I enjoyed the intimacy of the small > venue - but - I was also so proud of her filling those huge arenas > that I was in tears. Do we really worry about what will happen > success-wise? Hell, the Spice Girls were a big ticket name a few > years ago, now they can't even get tickets to attend the Grammy's. > However she is marketed all I care about is that she stays true to > the Muse. Her true success is IN her music, not in the number of > albums sold. Lots of fly-by-night shooting stars, like Britney, sell > lots of records but will they be remembered for their craft? I don't > think so. Tori will. She is revered by her peers. You can't get better > than that. In the end it comes down to this - She puts out her music. > Some get it, dig it, revel in it and some don't. That's how it is. What > will be, will be. If T is a happy person in her personal life and in > her career then I call her successful. > > The rest is Wavy Gravy Toodles~ MysT totally agree. plus, look how many creeps these celebrities attract. they're constantly under weird scrutiny and respect for them is nearly non existant. its either they're worshipped/under intense infatuation or slandered. AJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:54:16 EST From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: Re: first listen of Tori I vaguely remember the song "Crucify" on the radio. I never knew who it was, and at the time, was listening heavily to Aerosmith, Queen, The Doors, and then some Green Day and Soundgarden. It just didn't catch with me. I can remember "Cornflake Girl" a couple years later, and though I totally dug the song, I still didn't learn the name of the artist. By now I was getting more into Bush and Alanis Morissette, The Cranberries, and Billy Joel, though Aerosmith and Queen were still there. Then, my friend Katie was listening to an album at her house, and I remember hearing some part of it, and I was just like "Who the hell is this?" And she says "Tori Amos. She's a goddess." And I was like..."Ok, whatever floats your boat." Ah, and then the gem, "Caught a Lite Sneeze". This time, I learned the name of the artist. Tori Amos, the one my friend had been listening to. I said "Ok, I'll give her a try." And, I marched down to the record store, and there, I saw three albums. I recognized the titles "Crucify" and "Cornflake Girl", and I was like, "Oh cool! She did all three." Then, I couldn't decide which album I wanted. 3 albums, 3 songs. And, I put the albums back on the rack, since I couldn't make a decision. ::ducks her head in shame::: The next I heard any Tori Amos, it was 1998. My boyfriend at the time bought two Tori cds, LE and BFP. The music was so different, that though I loved some of the songs, others were just too weird for me. But, the more I listened, the more I liked it. Eventually, I was standing in front of a cd rack at Borders. I had 8 bucks on me. I saw the Raspberry Swirl/Cruel single, and I bought it on a whim. And, I fell DEEP in love. I began buying singles ravenously. I probably had most of the isngles that weren't rare or limited edition before I had a single album. And though none were like my beloved Raspberry Swirl single, I loved every one just as much. And, so, I bought the albums, and by the time she released To Venus and Back, her music was my obsession, and still is. All the songs that had rubbed me the wrong way, I came to love. No one, person, musician, artist, whatever, could evoke so much emotion from me as her music did. I learned more of her as a person, and more of the hows and whys of her music, and everyday, I am more in love. :) Black Dove ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:56:47 EST From: JNe9027355@aol.com Subject: Re: precious-things-digest V7 #58 In a message dated 3/13/02 10:22:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > To go mainstream does not always mean a change in the way tori writes or > performs her music. Many artists simply "catch on" with the general public > > without changing their tune. I cannot stand it when people automatically > assume underground artists to be "sellouts" should they hit it big and get > a > #1 record, and it sounds like a few people on this list would be disgusted > if > Their Tori turned into Everyone's Tori. personsally, i think it would be > great for tori to break into the mainstream and reach the minds of young > girls (and young boys, let's not be sexist here) who are currently singing > along to britany spears. > ~~jb > those types of peple are the types that, since they seem to have no interest in discovering more intelligent artisticlly unique music, truly don't care to know anything more. they seem to like being spoon-fed the next new thing in music, like they are classically conditioned. if tori were to impact media the way Spears has, she probably could influence there people--but for all the wrong reasons. these people are recieving her becuz they are spoon fed and don't care to know any better. i think u should understand the psychology of the people who are easily influenced by the media more --its sickening to think of bombarding them with more shit so they can be entertained. the big idea here should be to ENCOURAGE people to grow and expand and find their own musicalities or different ones without the help of mass-marketing in media, which most of us know is harmfully influential and keen on brainwashing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:05:37 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: Tori marketing Violet said: > Well, radio is, for the most part, mainstream. We know that Tori is not > (and presumably does not want to be) mainstream. > > And this is where we hit the brick wall. > > The solution would seem to be either 1) for Tori to go against who she > is and write more mainstream music so that she will fit into the formats > more easily and get played more frequently, or 2) for Tori to not give a > crap about radio and be content with a small fiercely devoted following > and rely on word-of-mouth to spread the news to new people. I'm hoping there is a third possibility; that perhaps Atlantic *was* guilty of not doing much to promote her to radio stations, and that with standard, aggressive radio promotion the new music will get some regular rotation going on, and that some people who might feel a resonance with the music will discover it for the first time. > Tori's music as it is right now just isn't commercial enough to garner a > lot of radio airplay. We don't know what the new stuff is gonna sound like, but beyond that, I think some songs from the last few years could have been much better taken advantage of commercially. I think She's Your Cocaine could have been a good radio song. It even has some overtones of the Talking Heads song Burning Down the House. I think Concertina, Lust, 1000 Oceans, and Glory of the 80s could have been pushed for radio with some success. I think Atlantic MAJORLY missed the boat by not pushing a single of Merry Little Christmas around Christmastime in 1998. I just gave a non-Tori friend of mine a copy of that recently and she was absolutely overwhelmed by how moving it is. > It was more commercial when it was more accessible, back during LE and > [slightly less so] during UtP. It got more enigmatic and hard to peg > after that, and people [who aren't already fans] have a harder time > understanding and connecting with it now. Despite having said what I just did, I honestly can't begin to imagine getting into Tori other than through Little Earthquakes. I imagine it would be like sitting down in a movie theatre halfway through the film. I know people do it and I know it can be done and *is* done, but it's beyond my ability to understand what that would be like. > Even being the hardcore Toriphile that I am, if I were discovering Tori > now, I don't think I'd be drawn to her the way I was when I first heard > songs like "Crucify" and "Mother" ten years ago ... What that was like for me is something I couldn't remember. It would be like trying to remember the first time I put shoes on or something. I've put on far too many pairs of shoes since then to separate out the first time. All I remember is hearing LE twice from the next room at work, and deciding to buy a copy for further investigation. As the first time I heard those songs I was distracted with work and in the next room, I can't claim to have had a pure first-time listening experience with the music. I knew there was something there for me, though, and it was enough to plunk down my cash for the album. > Personally, I would like to see Tori not give a crap about radio. I > would rather she continue just doing what she does and not care about > all that bullshit. If it comes, it comes, if not, oh well. But I > realise that's easy for me to say. I don't know how much freedom she > has to be that blase. It depends on whether her record contract is > riding on how "popular" she can be and how fast. Everything I've heard has strongly given me the impression that radio promotion is THE main reason she signed with Epic, and she expects them to deliver the goods. I don't think she anticipates selling five million records with the next album, but neither do I think she expects the new music to be left dying on the vine in the record bins with little or no radio promotion. Remember how she would do stuff like the 7 May 1998 Breakfast with Tori on LA's KROQ? Either the rare regional exception to the lack of Atlantic's radio promotion was in the LA area or KROQ and/or Kevin and Bean had special interest in promoting her in special ways (which seemed not to include much regular airplay, BTW), but I have to think if she wasn't interested in doing radio promo she wouldn't play a mini concert in a parking lot in LA at 8am. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:13:06 -0800 From: echoes@atlantic.devin.com Subject: Re: How I got into Tori... Just briefly: I had a friend in high school whose music tastes I trusted implicitly - most of the stuff he turned me on to, I loved then and still love. (Joe Satriani and Edie Brickell most notably). He showed me the cover of "Little Earthquakes" one day and although I didn't feel like listening to it at the time, I made a mental note to keep an eye out. Within a few days I caught MTV playing the "Crucify" video, which must have been a stroke of luck since I don't think they've played any of her videos more than a few times each. :) I then did something I never had done before: I drove the 12 miles to the music store and bought the album on the spot. I actually hated "Under the Pink" when it came out and it took me a long time (about a year) before I started to like it, and that in the context of the More Pink set my friend Alison had. She dubbed it for me and IT was the album that was my "companion" like LE had been for so many others. I can't tell you what that album did to me... Anyhow, I've been hooked ever since, of course. :) Beth - -- "This country has a deep fear and mistrust of strong, smart, accomplished, outspoken women unless they are sexy 22-year-olds killing vampires on television." -- Dennis Miller _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._ music reviews + stories + poetry + photography + collage + Watchers selkies + froud-faeries + esoterica + links = http://echoes.devin.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:49:50 -0000 From: "Mike Gray" Subject: Re: Tori marketing > Despite having said what I just did, I honestly can't begin to imagine > getting into Tori other than through Little Earthquakes. I imagine it > would be like sitting down in a movie theatre halfway through the film. I > know people do it and I know it can be done and *is* done, but it's beyond > my ability to understand what that would be like. Personally I got into Tori when I saw MCM (now defunct, I think), a French satellite music video channel broadcast the Crucify video on a Sunday afternoon. I remember going into town from school on the Monday lunchtime and buying Earthquakes, and I remember annoying the hell out of everyone by playing it constantly while we were rigging some lights for a production for the next few weeks... the rest is history. :) As for people getting into Tori with other albums, I know of at least two people who did that. One got into Tori with Choirgirl but only *really* got into Tori when I played her Earthquakes (although amusingly, her first purchase was the "Spark" cassette single which she played on auto-reverse for about six hours straight which drove her mother to distraction), while another (and he's just joined this list, so William, please step forward and tell it how it happened!) got SLG and then saw a show, which converted him. Now he's more Tori hungry than anyone else I know! Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:45:00 -0800 From: "Missy" Subject: How I was introd' to Tori No, I haven't actually Met her, unfortunately. But my boyfriend got to the front of the meet and greet in San Diego, soo we almost could have met her...alas I didn't know he was calling my cell phone to lemme know where he was so we could go meet him, so he had to leave the line. Maybe someday. So anyhow. I was introd to Tori by my friend who always seems to find the most unusual music that is really awesome. We used to go into Virtual Places ALL the time, and play battleships with each other, or chat with our "families." Well, they had little animations you could play that had music. And she sent me two Tori Amos ones. Parts of Caught a Light Sneeze, and Spark, I think. I fell in love with CALS, but never bought her albums coz I was broke. Well, I DL some songs of hers, and finally bought To Venus and Back as my first album. Yes I know most Toriphiles are probably cringing at the thought of me listening to that first. BUT I adored it! I listened to it every night for like..half a year. I finally managed to get her other cds, but getting into them was a bit harder since they are all so different. I bought the Spark Single and really liked it..so that helped bridge the gap. I loved UTP, didn't like LE at all. I didn't get into little earthquakes until after I saw her in concert. After that I realized what an awesome cd it is. Soo now I am introd people to her. hehe. I got my other friend into her music. and my boyfriend was surprised at the concert becuase she really plays well and sings so beautifully. He was bummed that they amped the piano though, cuz being into music, he could hear the distortions and it really bothered him. Soo there is my story! bye for now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:06:03 -0500 From: "centaur" Subject: How I found Tori ... First time caller, long time lurker... It was around 1996 and I was reading email from the Paula Cole mailing list here at smoe.org. There was a big discussion on the group at that time about Tori Amos - specifically how bad her new album was (Pele). They particularly liked to make fun of the "Tuna rubber, little blubber" line from Marianne. I had never even heard of Tori at all. Fortunately, one brave person went against the group consensus and raved on for several days about how incredible Tori was in general, and specifically about how people should give Pele more of a chance, that it would grow on them. Although I'm not a person who normally buys a lot of CD's, especially from an artist I've never heard of, something about the sincerity of that one person's love of Tori made me take a chance and I bought Little Earthquakes. I thought that if I'm going to get into this Tori person, I'd rather start at the beginning. I'm so glad that I did. From the very first line of Crucify I was hooked. The next day I bought both UTP and Pele. Totally loved UTP just as much as LE. After a few more days I took the plunge and listened to Pele for the first time. Uh oh, the critical folks were right, I thought. This is really different. I didn't care much for it the first play through. It only took about 3 days though, before I was crazy about Pele too. It just takes a little getting used to and a different mind set that all Tori albums don't have to sound the same. These days I have all of Tori's albums, singles, and b-sides, and I love them all, but I think BfP is actually my favorite album, if I was forced to pick only one. I'm still amazed sometimes that several of my closest friends and relatives who I've tried to introduce to Tori's music just don't get it. These people are intelligent and normally have decent musical taste, but they just can't understand what's so great about her, or get past her unusual lyrics. The worst reaction I get from them is if they see me playing a boot CD or video from one of her concerts. To me , the live performances with the different ways that she stretches the songs out, or pronounces things differently is so cool and unique. To others it just confirms their "She is weird" philosophy. Oh well, to each his own, I guess. P.S. - Btw, don't hold any of this against Paula Cole. Although she's not quite the goddess that Tori is, her first two albums, Harbinger, and This Fire are also excellent. Similarly to Tori, Paula is an intelligent and thoughtful song writer. The song Where Have All the Cowboys Gone? is actually quite atypical of her body of work, so don't hold it against her :) If you're interested, the best album to start with is This Fire , imho. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:17:16 -0000 From: "William Wilson" Subject: Re: Tori marketing Hi, I'm William, as referred to below. This is my first post to the list, so please don't judge me too harsh... Basically, I picked up on Tori last October via mention of Little Earthquakes, which I'd never heard of, on Nerina Pallot's website. Via Google, found out this was a TA album. Tori was scheduled to play Glasgow in December, so, without hearing her, decided to take a chance - something new after all. So, got tickets, half expected to see an acoustic guitar type show, & bought SLG to familiarise myself with what might be played. When I heard SLG, my first thought was 'What the hell has she done to 'Rattlesnakes'? (An 80s classic, after all). Then - 'That's 'Heart Of Gold?'. Curious, I ordered 'Little Earthquakes', got torn apart by 'Tear In Your Hand' (which I just put on repeat on the car cd player driving to & from work one day), 'Crucify' & 'Me & A Gun' still chill me even now. Anyway, with that basic history I went to see Tori in Glasgow in December last year. I left shellshocked. One woman, 3 pianos, all that power? All that intensity? All that feeling? & yet she tells stories about diapers! Ok, for those of you with TA histories, maybe this was just another show, for me it was a wake up call. So, shortly after devouring the official albums, now where's the boots? First boot I heard opened with a medley - 'American Pie/ Smells Like Teen Spirit' - seemed a bizarre coupling, but it works perfectly, you can *feel* that show without being there. Another - 'Wrapped Around your Finger' - well, I don't like the Police, never did, but hey, this version has something... So now, waiting on the 1st Epic album, I collect Tori boots. I love the intensity of her own work, & I love the way she takes other people's songs & reconstructs them, & that's not a specific reference to SLG. I've listened to gorgeous live versions today of 'Daniel' (Elton), 'River' (Joni), & 'Famous Blue Raincoat' (Leonard Cohen, & the only covers of his I've ever had time before for were the John Cale & Jeff Buckley versions of 'Hallelujah'). I've never heard Joni's original 'Case of You', but I bet Tori's version is better. Goddammit, she 's even covered Hendrix (If 6 Was 9)! To conclude - I listen to a lot of music, but there's only 3 who can take me to the highest places, where the music reaches the heart, the mind, the soul, where I think 'yeah, it'll all turn out right', where a bad time can be transcended - Bob Dylan, Van Morrison & Tori Amos. Not a bad gang of 3 imo... Thanks for your time guys. About to hit the sack to the strains of 'Twinkle'. Apologies if I'm rambling... William - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Gray" To: Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 3:49 PM Subject: Re: Tori marketing > As for people getting into Tori with other albums, I know of at least two > people who did that. One got into Tori with Choirgirl but only *really* got > into Tori when I played her Earthquakes (although amusingly, her first > purchase was the "Spark" cassette single which she played on auto-reverse > for about six hours straight which drove her mother to distraction), while > another (and he's just joined this list, so William, please step forward and > tell it how it happened!) got SLG and then saw a show, which converted him. > Now he's more Tori hungry than anyone else I know! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:39:53 +0000 From: "Tom xxxxx" Subject: Re: precious-things-digest V7 #58 > > How did everyone else come to know Tori's music? This is a cool question and I've enjoyed reading the answers. I was in my senior year of college--1993/1994. Somehow, I knew "Crucify." Maybe I heard it on the radio, or maybe a someone played it in the dorm (I was an RA). I liked it, thought it was saying some cool things. I was hanging out in a friend's room and noticed she had a CD by Tori Amos. I thought I remembered that she sang that "raising up my hands" song. I looked at the CD, was surprised to see large penises on the back, and noted it had "Crucify" on it. I asked her if I could borrow it, and she agreed. I was not impressed at first. I loved "Crucify" and "Winter" but was unexcited by the rest of it. I taped those two songs and gave it back to her. Those two songs just got better and better with every listen. Then another friend recommended Tori to me. I mentioned the two songs I like and she admonished me to give the CD another chance. Well, I wanted CD versions of those two songs, so I just went and bought "Little Earthquakes." It took a few listens, but I found the songs more and more compelling. I then acquired "Under the Pink" and tried to get tickets to The Dew Drop Inn tour. I finally bought "Boys for Pele" the summer of 1996, during the shittyist time of my life. That summer I ended up pummelled, broken-hearted, homeless (only briefly but it was scary), dependent on the kindness of my friends, disbelieved by police and judges, and bereaved for some pets that passed on. "Boys for Pele" was my soundtrack, my solace, and my therapist. I loved her music before then; afterwards I was a devoted fan. OK that was heavier than I intended, but it goes to show how deeply effecting music in general and Tori specifically can be. blue skies to you all, Tom "All the carnage of my journeys makes it harder to be livin' He said, 'It's a long road to be forgiven." Amy Ray, "Chickenman" ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V7 #59 ************************************