From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V6 #126 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Thursday, July 26 2001 Volume 06 : Number 126 Today's Subjects: ----------------- random thought on SLG [Soma Holiday ] Re: Re[3]: crappy songs ["becka" ] Re: mama vs. dada [Dracovixen@aol.com] Re: men and women are different (I forgot something) [Dracovixen@aol.com] Re: men and women are different [Dracovixen@aol.com] Re: "lust for a while" [Dracovixen@aol.com] maybe we interpreted Tori wrong... [Dracovixen@aol.com] Re: Tori Does Dallas.. sounds like a porno [earthsis@spindle.net (eart] The new album & the trying to be enlightened EWF [Cindy2Love@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:39:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Soma Holiday Subject: random thought on SLG i just realized, as i sat here listening to my playlist, that strange little girl reminds me a lot of YKTR, "Fayth" in particular, especially the beginning of Strange little girls. weird. :) - amy A is for attitude I can't help but wield A is for arrogance; emotional shield A is for acting, A is for abhorrently A is for asshole, which is what I am, how rude of me. - ami@blue.netnation.com - http://blue.netnation.com/~ami ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:02:01 -0400 From: "becka" Subject: Re: Re[3]: crappy songs I hardly think that a female uttering the exact > same words that a man wrote qualifies as perspective in any dictionary > definition. It may sound creepy, it may sound different, but come on, > stop trying to put something in a song that isn't there. stop trying to put something in a song that isn't there.. well isn't one of the points of artistry and music is to convey emotions and thoughts? to each his own in what they find in a piece of music... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:28:55 EDT From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: Re: mama vs. dada Dada spoke about himself in the third person...why can't mama? Did you think that maybe she's mama speaking about dada, and then herself in third person just like dada did? Black Dove In a message dated 07/23/2001 10:35:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > could have helped if she'd changed the lyrics to not call herself > 'daddy' in 97 bonnie and clyde for starters. If the songs are sung > from the perspective of a man, then singing them as written doesn't > convey much but a different delivery, and hardly a perspective. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:23:39 EDT From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: Re: men and women are different (I forgot something) Oh yeah, when I said biological before, I was also referring to mental capabilites and thought process. The mental actually stems from the biological, though it is affected by social nurturing. However, from the start as babies, men and women are different. Black Dove In a message dated 07/23/2001 10:35:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > threatening to those of us who transgress the rigidities of social norms of > sex > and gender. men and women aren't these inherenlty and vastly different > creatures > and we don't need tori's help upholding absurd ideas of sexual difference. > > over and out > adam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:18:29 EDT From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: Re: men and women are different You'd be amazed at how different men and women really are. I'm fairly certain that the only reason why the human race continues to exist is because we have such strong sex drives. :) We were hardwired differently for different occupations since the beginning of humankind. Biologically, we are vastly different. However, that does not make one sex better than the other, we're just different. People have to understand that men and women ARE in fact different, and that they even learn things and interpret things differently. It's just the way it is. No big deal. I don't think she is trying to uphold anything but what is biological fact. And, it is inherent. Black Dove In a message dated 07/23/2001 10:35:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > men and women aren't these inherenlty and vastly different creatures > and we don't need tori's help upholding absurd ideas of sexual difference. > > over and out > adam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:35:11 EDT From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: Re: "lust for a while" Thank you! That was part of what I was trying to say!!! Black Dove In a message dated 07/23/2001 10:35:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > i've been on this lust for a while and am usually one to just kinda lurk > about and listen to everyone's opinion, but i just thought i'd share my > feelings on this one. > personally, i think tori misspoke when she said these songs were done from > a > "female perspective." i agree with those of you who don't quite see it in > these songs. what i think tori is really doing with these songs is just > getting us to maybe hear the message a little differently by having these > songs sung by a woman. does this make sense? she's not necessarily > showing > a female perspective, just showing how different the song can be when done > by > someone of another gender. b+c is a big example of that. i don't see a > female perspective in that song. all she did was strip it down and make > the > listener hear how disturbing a song it is when eminem's upbeat background > is > replaced by her creepy strings and whispering. > any thoughts? > toodles, > The Rayzengirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:10:47 EDT From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: maybe we interpreted Tori wrong... Maybe our interpretation of what Tori said went in another direction than what it should have been... I wonder if what she meant by all that she has said (and remember that we are only getting bits and pieces of entire interviews), is that she's singing these songs, giving them a woman's voice, to kinda let more people have the ability to identify with songs she considers fabulous, and to see that some of them are really messed up. I mean, on average, and don't start arguing with me about this because being a radio DJ, having frequented plenty of clubs, and having tons of friends who are into music, and being a music freak herself, I have seen this to be the average thing: women generally can identify more easily with songs done by women, and men do that with songs done by men. However, there are exceptions, so don't start sending me the e-mails about how you're a girl and most of your music collection is male. That's peachy for you. Or vice versa for the guys. Anyway, she's giving these songs a new voice, and with "'97 Bonnie and Clyde", I think she is just trying to show us how fucked up the song, and the world, really is. And remember all that talk of how women allow themselves to be "defecated" on? This was during the porn article. The woman in the Eminem song is empathic to the man in the song. She's kinda allowing him to do all that, and at the same time accepting his reasons for doing so, and then trying to tell her little girl that it's all really ok. That's fucked up, but that's the way some women really do think. She's allowing herself to be defecated on, and we all know that's fucked up and wrong, but sometimes people need to be shocked in order to see that. Of course, she did it in her confusing Tori way. I'm not sure that I am explaining my thoughts very well here, but I'm just saying that maybe we took her words too literally or something. Black Dove In a message dated 07/23/2001 10:35:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > > Out of the three songs so > > far I don't think I've been able to find the "woman's perspective" in > > them at all. WTF? > > Her woman's perspective is in lieu of saying what it really is : a myopic > take on some songs she really likes, probably. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 01:58:30 -0500 From: earthsis@spindle.net (earthsis@spindle.net) Subject: Re: Tori Does Dallas.. sounds like a porno Hey Micah and all, I'm a big lurker, but I thought I'd throw some cents in about the Bronco Bowl in Dallas. I saw Tori perform there on the BFP tour. Compared to the Starplex Amphitheater (or Smirnoff center now), it's much better for her, acoustically. It's indoors and large enough, but not ridiculous like a football stadium. I think (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the name came from the fact that there is an adjacent bowling alley in the building...? I don't believe smoking is allowed in the building..neither are the usual cameras, etc.. (had mine confiscated..dangit..) It's all seating, but I do agree with the person who described the horseshoe shape and how that can be a disadvantage...if you get seats dead center or to the right of the stage, you're good cuz you can see her.. But if you're on the left, you'll just see her back. For the BFP concert, I was a little to the right, so I was lucky. And I had what I considered to be bad seats, until I got there. I thought the place was going to be bigger than it was, so my seats weren't that far. I could actually see her and what she was doing.. a rarity, I hear, at other venues. I'm actually somewhat relieved to hear she'll be at the Bronco Bowl this time..the past 2 concerts have been outdoors at the starplex amphitheater and it was very difficult to get any kind of intimate feeling with the music since it was outdoors and acoustically, it lacked a lot. At least with the Bronco bowl, the sound will be much, much better.. Oh yeah, just had a thought...if she brings along the keyboards again, the seating may not be so much of a problem since she'll be pivoting from one side to another..something to be hopeful about..? :-) Take care all, Angela~ > "The Bronco Bowl isn't a stadium. It seats about 3,500 people. I've seen > her there at least a couple of times and it's the right size for a Tori > show. " > well thank freakin god. whoever that is. > "The only problem is, since the seating is sort of horseshoe shaped, > you can get seats on the wrong side of the stage and just have a view of > Tori's back for most of the concert cause her piano is facing the other way." > that many people, and there's sitting room only? is it all indoors? smoking > allowed? > sorry.. whenever i hear something called a "bowl" i think of football. > (football season's almost here, and rice is a raider! yay! - sorry) > ok, ok sorry about the cursing at first.. it's just.. well.. tori's just > making me "V" my eyebrows.. and, well.. > stuff, > micah ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:42:13 EDT From: Cindy2Love@aol.com Subject: The new album & the trying to be enlightened EWF Hi everyone, I think I'm just an unevolved EWF. I want to like this album so much because it's Tori... I'm just wondering how long it's going to take to grow on me. Did everybody immediately love it who loves it now? I know. I know. I'm a poor excuse for an EWF. I'm really trying to like it. I think I just need time to absorb it and then I will love it like all of Tori's other albums. Although, I am one of those tori fans who thinks L.E. was her greatest masterpiece and nothing will ever compare to that. I'm so out of the loop. Is there a site where I can hear every tori song from the new album or I am dreamin'? Also does anyone know if she'll be doing meets and greets this tour? I apologize if this has already been covered and I missed it or if it's too early to be even asking. Is there a site where I could read some tips about attending a Meet and Greet? Like Do's and Don'ts for a first timer? Or could someone give me some tips? I want to be prepared. I've been to a lot of tori concerts, but I've never wanted to meet her just because I adore her way too much (it's complicated) and now that I want to maybe try to meet her I'm worried she won't be doing any more meet and greets. Well anyway, I'm sure this album is absolutely fantastic. I've only heard 3 songs from it so I shouldn't form an opinion this soon, but I do have to admit I'm scared about it. Then again every cover I've heard Tori do has been a bazillion times better than the original version IMHO....Every one of her covers moves me to tears....I've even witnessed non - tori fans moved to tears by her covers....I remember being a sophomore in high school ( ...oh so long ago... ) and I knew the biggest Led Zeppelin fan in one of my English classes. I was just mentioning to my bestfriend in class one day that Tori's cover of "Thank You" was sooooooo beyond beautiful that she just had to hear it as soon as possible and maybe even sooner than that and he overheard and was like "A woman covers Led Zeppelin?!?! Noooooooo. Ugh." And I was like "Yeah. And it's awesome." So I brought my discman the next day so he could listen to the song....And he put on the headphones and he was just staring out and after a few moments of listening time had passed he said "This version is so f*cking good, Cindy. I can't believe a woman did it." And I was like "I told you it was good." Then I swear he started to tear up, but quickly denied it and said there was something in his eye... My absolute favorite cover of all time that Tori has done though is "Landslide." The version on Tori Stories disc 3 -- words can't even describe how much I love it. Describing it as beautiful wouldn't do the version justice IMHO. Just the way she says before starting the song : "I play this sometimes when I'm sad. It doesn't mean I'm sad. I just like to be sad." is just so........ So I'll try to be optimistic and think the rest of the songs I haven't heard from this album will move me like those do...I only hope... Best wishes to everyone, ~~*Cindy*~ "My heart goes out to where that song comes from. It's very much about thinking you were loved for who you were, and realizing you weren't, and realizing maybe you don't love yourself. The line 'I guess you go too far when pianos try to be guitars' is just about never being enough. I felt that with my instrument sometimes, wanting to be Jimmy Page. You can only be you. A lot of times that's not enough for some people." ~~ Tori Amos ~ ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V6 #126 *************************************