From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V6 #122 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Sunday, July 22 2001 Volume 06 : Number 122 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Wouldn't it be cool if...? [Twinkle018@aol.com] Re: precious-things-digest V6 #121 [Dracovixen@aol.com] Crappy songs ["Ryan -" ] Strange Little Girls & The Confused EWF ~ [Mysterilady2001@cs.com] Re: Wouldn't it be cool if...? ["Strangest Little Boy" ] Re: is there a .....? ["Richard Austin" ] Re: Strange Little Girls & The Confused EWF ~ [ToriLiscious@cs.com] Re: Strange Little Girls & The Confused EWF ~ [Judas658@aol.com] PS ["Richard Austin" ] Tori Does Dallas [Stephen ] Re: crappy songs [Icicle1139@aol.com] Re: Crappy songs [Soma Holiday ] Re: Strange Little Girls & The Confused EWF ~ [Mysterilady2001@cs.com] Re: Strange Little Girls & The Confused EWF ~ [David Mobley ] Re: Crappy songs [Finney2567@aol.com] Re: Tori Does Dallas [ToriLiscious@cs.com] Re: PS [Richard Handal ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:27:16 EDT From: Twinkle018@aol.com Subject: Wouldn't it be cool if...? You know, looking at all of these cool pictures of Tori in all of these different characters that belong to the songs, I couldn't help but think of how interesting a movie would be w/ Tori playing all of these different characters. Kind of like one long video... almost "The Wall-ish"... I would love that. And, you know how she toys w/ movie ideas... it could become a great piece of artwork- sonically and visually. Just a thought... Desiree ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 02:03:00 EDT From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: Re: precious-things-digest V6 #121 I could see and hear the woman's perspective in 97 Bonnie and Clyde, but not so much with the other two songs...But, I'm going to wait and see. I will buy the album, just at least to support my favorite artist, you know? But I sincerely hope that the rest of the album gets better. I like the covers, but I expected more from her. Black Dove In a message dated 07/21/2001 10:33:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: > and personally I hope I'm not the only one who thinks these covers are > a load of crap. I thought they were going to be re-interpretations, > and not just attempts to clone the songs. Out of the three songs so > far I don't think I've been able to find the "woman's perspective" in > them at all. WTF? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 03:41:21 -0400 From: "Ryan -" Subject: Crappy songs Yep, I'm totally with you. These are a poor excuse of "new work" and a poor excuse of a "reinvention" with the exception being Heart of Gold, where the appropriate word would be "mess." I'm not going to blindly approve anything she does simply because she's Tori and tears are supposed to well in my eyes when I hear her voice. A bad song is a bad song, and it is quite a feat to take such a gorgeous song like Heart of Gold and turn it into such a wreck. If these are the stand-out tracks, then God help us all. >and personally I hope I'm not the only one who thinks these covers are >a load of crap. I thought they were going to be re-interpretations, >and not just attempts to clone the songs. Out of the three songs so >far I don't think I've been able to find the "woman's perspective" in >them at all. WTF? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 09:13:35 EDT From: Mysterilady2001@cs.com Subject: Strange Little Girls & The Confused EWF ~ Hi ya ToriGloss & EWF ~ I'm sorry, this is really long. Feel free to do an Evelyn Wood or skip all together if you are not in the mood for long. :::I think what I have to say is valid tho, so you may want to read anyway::: I ask that if you do read what I have to say, please read it *all*. Don't stop til you are past my signature Toodles, k? It all comes full circle I think. Though I do tend to jump around, its how my brain works, if you stick with it I think it will make sense. Some of what I say will be controversial, I ask that you please read with an open mind. Thanks muchly :-) :::MysT places asbestos hat squarely on head::: What I am writing is in response to: In a message dated 7/7/01 10:30:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org writes: << Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 10:21:13 EDT From: ToRiGLosS@aol.com Subject: Re: Bonnie & Clyde-Empathy for Her Husband How can ANYTHING be conveyed if, as the Time Magazine article says, she changed NONE of the lyrics.. Does this seem strange to anyone else? >> YES! ME! If the Time article is correct I'm afraid I don't see how she can, in an audio recording, express the thoughts, feelings, words of the murdered wife in "97 Bonnie and Clyde". I can see, possibly, how a video can express a different point of view, but we are talking about an audio recording at this point. Yes, I may see it in some of the other songs. Maybe not. Some things about "97' Bonnie and Clyde" that strike me are the inclusion of Will Smiths hook "Just The Two Of Us" which was, by Smiths account, written to his Son as a means of bonding because Smith had married Jada and they were expecting a child. A noble & sweet *fatherly* thing to do. Then Eminem uses the hook in a song about a father & daughter. Daughter coos, father kills, song is named "97' Bonnie and Clyde". According to his lyrics the toddler daughter is Bonnie to his Clyde? Partners in crime. Oy, is that freaking sick or am I just terminally uncool? OK, don't answer that. I'm stressed enough already planning our wedding & honeymoon in October - PLUS Jim's and my trip to Ireland next month & the kids summer camps. I might get all emotional & burst into tears. Not kidding. I am hella relieved that Tori did not use the version that included Will Smiths hook. "97 B&C" is about violence & control, through & through - Whatever coooing takes place, in the voice of a child, OR ghostlike Whooooooo's in the voice of OUR Tori are not to distract from this truth. It may be just a song, but the song does strike a cord of truth in our society. As someone who knows firsthand about abusive, controlling, violent ex-husbands, a song like this - where the murder of an ex-wife is seen as play - sickens me. Music influences our culture. Someone like Eminem is seen as a hero, young men want to be like him. I seriously thought Tori was going to portray the wife and her pain - she did not. I am saddened & disappointed. Shall this be a case of Emperors New Clothes or what I like to refer to as the Stanley Kubrick/Eyes Wide Shut phenomenon - Let's all stand around and *pretend* to get it when, in fact, its simply NOT THERE! Tori released statement(s) saying these songs are from a woman's viewpoint. Uhhh, OK... with no lyric change in the two songs released so far I hear no changes at all - content, tone, message - *nada*. Or is it just me? What I *hear* is a woman singing, or speaking, in the case of "97 B&C" - THAT'S the only changes I hear. (Playing the part of Lucy today is MysT - "Yes, 'splain it to me Ricky") Eminem's "97 Bonnie and Clyde" lyric addy below. http://www.angelfire.com/de/eminem/97bonnieandclyde.html While your at it read the "Public Service Announcement" Eminem reads at the beginning of the album. It's good for a chuckle. http://eminem.8m.com/lyrics/public.htm Oh yeah and one more thing about Eminem's versions - To clear up any confusion the song containing Smiths hook was put on an EP & renamed "Just the Two Of Us" for purposes of radio listeners seeking to purchase the song. (Eminem's, not Tori's) OK, slight subject shift - (that moves back into previous subject to fit like a puzzle) I was confused about is this aspect of Tori's word-for-word recording of each of the 12 tracks scheduled to be on SLG. So I looked into it. What I learned was this - To record a song, word-for-word, the secondary artist needs to apply for what is called a Mechanical License. (See quoted material below) http://www.nmpa.org/hfa/mechanical.html "Under the United States Copyright Act, the right to use copyrighted, non-dramatic musical works in the making of phonorecords for distribution to the public for private use is the exclusive right of the copyright owner. However, the Act provides that once a copyright owner has recorded and distributed such a work to the U.S. public or permitted another to do so, a compulsory mechanical license is available to anyone else who wants to record and distribute the work in the U.S. upon the payment of license fees at the statutory "compulsory" rate as set forth in Section 115 of the Act. The current royalty rate as of January 1, 2000 is 7.55 cents per use for compositions that are 5 minutes or less; for songs over 5 minutes, the rate is 1.45 cents per minute or fraction thereof of playing time, whichever is greater. Please see the Statutory Royalty Rates for additional information. It should be noted that a mechanical license does not include the right to reproduce an already existing sound recording. That is a separate right, which must be procured from the copyright owner of such sound recording." OK, so from what I understand this is how this thing reads - Once the copyright owner has recorded and distributed the song, the song is then available for another to record GIVEN they apply for a mechanical license and have agreed to pay the current royalty rate, which is 7.55 cents PER USE for songs under 5 minutes in estimated recording numeration's of 2,500 or more. (As in Tori's case) Has anyone looked up the timing of the originals? Are they, in most cases, under 5 minutes? In the case of Eminem, he does not give permission for a certain song to be recorded by another artist, that falls to the Harry Fox Agency, Inc. If the person wishing to record the song can produce the greenbacks the song can be theirs to record. This makes sense since he has been quoted that he *had heard* that she was recording "97' Bonnie and Clyde". That statement doesn't come from someone in the know. In other words he didn't get a phone call from Tori's *people* asking Em's OK, rather he likely got the news that she WAS indeed doing it. Period. Like it or not, she's paid and its set. The deal works out good for him, why would he complain? He stands to make 7.55 cents per CD PLUS any live performances where she sings the song. If I am correct in my calculations .91 cents from every CD will go to royalties for the 12 song copyright owners. Not a bad gig. Plus, lest we forget, Eminem gets press exposure and that adds up to mui :::KACHINGS!::: I looked up all the songs and the record company supporting the specific albums involved to find a possible tie-in to Atlantic. Basically there is none that I can see. The 12 songs are all over the place from such record companies as: EMI, Capitol, Columbia, Warner, A&M... so no definitive $ tie to Atlantic there. Total bummer - there goes my Atlantic is an E V I L money monger slant :-/ What threw me was something by Scott Campbell in the TAC. On page 118 he states that Kim Fowley was "unsuccessful in obtaining permission" to cover two Tori songs - "Past The Mission" & "Leather". Unless Mr. Fowley asked to record the songs without having to pay the royalties I don't understand why he was *unsuccessful* - We have many others who have recorded Tori (some are: Jemma Price, the newbie multi-artist Goddess CD, Faye Wong, plus samples of MAAG by Mad@Chris & Eugina - all of which collect royalties for Tori). It is also possible that Mr. Campbell was misinformed because this doesn't fit with what I've learned about mechanical license. :::shock, horror::: Could something in TAC actually be wrong? (I just HAD to throw that in, Jim, Richard & more - myself included have known of its Uhhh inaccuracies for a long time. I've often referred to it as the Tori Amos bible. This is not a far off statement as many of us believe the bible, too, is full of holes. Sorry Jim, I love you hunny) More info on song license can be found at the addys below: http://www.nmpa.org/nmpa.html http://www.nmpa.org/hfa.html What I don't know is what royalties are paid if a secondary artist uses the music and idea of a song but changes the lyrics - what think many thought Tori would be doing in these covers, or at least in some of them, like Eminem's. Can an artist just change the lyrics at will? Seems I read it could be legally done. But Tori did not change the words - not one word from what we know so far. The press releases claimed that we would be hearing a female slant on these male written and performed songs. Uhhh... I've only heard two tracks but face it folks, its Tori singing the male part, pure & simple. Tori's voice speaks the voice of the murderer NOT the victim in "97 B&C". NOW we have heard two tracks from SLG's. I will always say what I feel. Those that want to jump me in the hall after I've said all this - grow up! I am a big fan of Tori and have put my money where my mouth is in support of her. I also have a brain and can think for myself, no need to be a blind follower. She's a person, not a Goddess to be put on a pedestal who can do no wrong. (Albeit an extremely talented person.) I believe she is saying something by the release of this recording. (As a thinker I couldn't just go jelly brained and accept. I needed to think, research, listen to my gut & talk about it.) NO ONE and I do mean no one will convince me that Tori does not have original songs waiting in the wings ready to be recorded - but instead she has recorded this album of other peoples work. ODD. The BIG question is *W*H*Y*??? I believe she is leaving Atlantic/ew, that's why. Now this is pure speculation on my part but see if this doesn't make sense. I think she has an 8 album contract with them and I believe its up with this album. 1) YKTR, 2) LE, 3) UTP, 4) BFP, 5) FTCgH, 6) TVAB - CD1 (new material), 7) TVAB - CD2 (live stuff) - each CD on TVAB counts as one. SLG will be 8. As with George Michael & Prince before what do you do when you are unhappy or your contract is about up & are leaving your record company? You release a: 1) Greatest Hits album, &/or 2) Live album &/or 3) album of COVERS. So why do performers do this? I'm so glad you asked! Because to release new material would mean that the record company has their hand in the cookie jar with Tori's. They get a percentage of Tori's money - for 50+ years! A performer doesn't want this. Record company wants to hit on some BIG :::kachings::: as Tori jumps ship and what better way to do this than release a cover of an extremely controversial song! Not only will this cause massive airplay, press & record sales for SLG's, BUT it will get people buying her previous released catalogue as well. Atlantic/ew say: Yumm, Yumm as the $$$$ comes rolling in. In my opinion SLG is a commercial record, plain & simple - its entire purpose is to bring in money. I reserve the right to change my view as we hear the rest of the album, I certainly could be wrong - it's happened before :-)~ It's possible even the acts chosen to cover were chosen for their fan base's intense buying habits. (For instance: I buy anything & everything with Tori on it. I have compilations far & wide, paid bucks where she is sampled, been guest vocal, as well as covers of her music. If the roles were reversed and Eminem were covering Tori I'd buy the CD.) This is show *business* folks and its all about the Benjamin's $:::KACHING - KACHING:::$ Is Tori a puppet? No, I don't think so. We have LE, UTP, BFP, FTCgH & TVAB to remind us who she is - Let's remember that. No, Tori knows what she is doing, she has her reasons. I'd love to know - Does Spivak stick with Tori as she moves to another record label or is he Atlantic employed? He guides her career, with as I would think, her, Marks & possibly her Dads input as well. I'd love to sit with her, have a cup of tea, some apple cake and pick her brain. Oh, the questions I would ask! I've spoken at length to several friends - & my very intelligent fiance - about this, and we all feel that this record will alienate *some* fans. I challenge us all to stay tuned and wait to hear of Tori's move from Atlantic &/or another reason we haven't hit upon yet. We are a smart bunch, we guessed at the *touring in a way she hasn't in a long time* riddle. (I'm proud to say I guessed touring solo piano :-) Whatever the move is, It could be a quiet move and we may not hear of anything until the tour has ended or she is ready to record again. (Please don't make us wait 2 years Tori! I really want to hear your thoughts and growth that motherhood has brought about :-) I encourage all EWF to enjoy this record for what it is: An album of covers. We know Tori holds some covers dear to her - "American Pie" for instance - its possible that some of these are sweet to Tori. Yes, I will buy this album and I will attend as many shows as I can. I still love Tori, nothing has changed. We get to hear her wonderful talent weave new colors in another's tapestry, that's very cool. I am still looking forward to hearing her do the 10cc, Beatles and Boomtown Rats covers. Though I am less enthused about songs like "Rattlesnakes" & "Heart of Gold" I also realize that they may very well become a cherished friend later. Who among us hasn't disliked a Tori song out of the gate & come to love it later? Though I severely doubt I will ever love, like or enjoy "97 B&C" :::sigh:::, I'm sure I will love something on the album, I always do :-) OK, so that's it. Thanks for reading. YES, MysT is One Strange Little Girl Toodles ~ Uhhh... MysT *Please post your thoughts but I ask all to keep your expletives to a minimum, it kinda annoys woj a tad - he's sensitive like that. **Hate mail can be sent to: yadayada@kissmyarse.com *** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 10:32:24 -0500 From: "Strangest Little Boy" Subject: Re: Wouldn't it be cool if...? > You know, looking at all of these cool pictures of Tori in all of these > different characters that belong to the songs, I couldn't help but think of > how interesting a movie would be w/ Tori playing all of these different > characters. Kind of like one long video... almost "The Wall-ish"... I would > love that. And, you know how she toys w/ movie ideas... it could become a > great piece of artwork- sonically and visually. > Just a thought... > Desiree Natalie Merchant did that with her last album, Ophelia. It was really interesting. She was pictured as different characters from each of her songs in the liner notes of the CD. And then she was all of those characters in the movie called "Ophelia". She wore all their costumes and did the accents. It was very entertaining. Anthony ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:30:25 +0100 From: "Richard Austin" Subject: Re: is there a .....? David Mobley wrote :- "and personally I hope I'm not the only one who thinks these covers are a load of crap. I thought they were going to be re-interpretations, and not just attempts to clone the songs. Out of the three songs so far I don't think I've been able to find the "woman's perspective" in them at all. WTF?" Hi folks, One of my rare posts to PT ! I've been thinking on what we've all heard so far and whilst chatting with a good friend I got to wondering ... Does anybody know what the original terms of Tori's deal with Atlantic were ? If it was a "one album with option on the next six" type deal then SLG will be the last one (TVAB was two). If you were an artist looking to better your terms or go to a new label (maybe your own), wouldn't you want the last album on your current deal to be a seller, but also one that sells without giving away any/too much new material to the old label / deal terms ? capital "S") rather than be a "pure" vehicle for Tori (much like YKTR). It will still be a valid artistic statement with her interpretation of the songs and I can't say I feel as "let down" by it as some posters have indicated. Looks like good old common sense to me ! It does appear to follow the pattern of "Live Album"/"Covers Album"/new deal that so many other artists at the end of their contractual terms have followed and I can understand that - We've all got to eat. Let's just be thankful she chose not to do a "Metal Machine Music" instead. It would explain the commercial slant of the single too. I'm tending to think of the whole album & tour as pre-publicity for the NEXT album - a "Big Hit Single" will certainly help that on it's way and I think she deserves it. I will wait until the tour. Then we will see if there's a lot of new material being debuted and all will probably become clearer. SLG was possibly my all time favourite Stranglers track and it's interesting to hear a new slant on it (even with the "Corrs" arrangement!) and it's a good choice of songs all told. I'm still looking forward to the rest of the album as some of them intrigue me as to how they will be done (Slayer ?). Tori has always been different and never one to short-change the people that buy her recordings. I think we will get a good album of interesting songs regardless, even if it's not "Tori" enough for some tastes. We may even be rewarded with another album of new material very quickly too. Can't be a bad thing, can it ? Go for it, Girl ! :-) Just a few thoughts .... Richard _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:56:39 EDT From: ToriLiscious@cs.com Subject: Re: Strange Little Girls & The Confused EWF ~ oh, myst.. ditto. i'm too pissed to even write. I'm making myself wait till the frustration wears off. stuff, micah ::sigh:: ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:46:02 EDT From: Judas658@aol.com Subject: Re: Strange Little Girls & The Confused EWF ~ that was written so well. You bring up a lot of points i have thought of before. thank you. The Sun Is Warming My Man Is Moistening - --- Chain Me To Your Cross ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 17:19:48 +0100 From: "Richard Austin" Subject: PS Hi again, Follow up to my last post having listened to "Heart of Gold" now too. As Johnny Lennon once said "Here's another clue for you all" ... Anybody played "Spot the Piano" on the new tracks ? And the tour is .... Solo Piano. RTA _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 10:48:51 -0500 From: Stephen Subject: Tori Does Dallas Tori is scheduled to play the Bronco Bowl in Dallas, TX on November 3rd. Tickets go on sale Sept 15th with ticket prices to be announced later. I didn't know she had a tour planned but I guess she does :) Stephen Wiener Dallas, TX. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 12:45:15 EDT From: Icicle1139@aol.com Subject: Re: crappy songs Hello all... I don't post on here much, but I think this is worthy of responding. I have been on the Dent posting and basically everyone there would love it if she made an album of burps, so I am starting to think this is the missing intelligent faction of the Dent. Anywho...hope I didn't offend. The songs, so far, pretty much blow. SLG is poppy and bubbly, B and C sounds like Jaws (the strings in the background, I keep expecting Jaws to pop out of the murky depth), and Heart of Gold is...heinous. Hopefully, these are not representative of the best work on the album. I mean, right now Riot Poof is looking good, and all who know me know how much I DETEST Riot Poof. I am shocked and disappointed at the lack of quality, as well as that I hear exactly NO female perspective in these songs. Sad days people. At least we have the solo tour! **kari ***take a trip on a rocketship, the sea is the sky*** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:35:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Soma Holiday Subject: Re: Crappy songs quick message before i'm off to work -- i had the same feelings about not understanding the how she was trying to put a "woman's perspective" on these songs, but i do have to say her cover of 97 bonnie and clyde was chilling. it disturbed me, highly, heh. and i think the great thing about it was that you could probably have heard eminem's version of this song, with him rapping the lyrics, at any party or on any rap station, and very few people would've had a problem with it, hell, i probably wouldn't have had a problem with it, just laughed and thought "ah, that crazy eminem!" but with this little twist on it tori's brought about, it takes it from a trivial little song to an absolutely terrifying story. anyway, just my take. i'm looking foward to hearing the other tracks on the cd. :) - amy A is for attitude I can't help but wield A is for arrogance; emotional shield A is for acting, A is for abhorrently A is for asshole, which is what I am, how rude of me. - ami@blue.netnation.com - http://blue.netnation.com/~ami ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:35:17 EDT From: Mysterilady2001@cs.com Subject: Re: Strange Little Girls & The Confused EWF ~ Hi ya Anthony & EWF ~ Ahhhh, I thought I'd heard that before! Thank you Anthony :-) It does strike a Smith cord in that Eminem's version contains the hook made famous by Smith's version - without the *we can make it if we try* part and is about a parent/child rather than a man/woman as I recall the Bill Withers song being about. Do I remember the original correctly? Soaking up information like a sponge Toodles ~ MysT *Psst! - Thank you to the 6 people who have personally written me so far today concerning my controversial post. All 6 have been supportive. I feel so light... I could jump in a field of daisies whilst singing .... ahhhahhh... *** In a message dated 7/22/01 8:42:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mb083176@gte.net writes: << > songs. Maybe not. Some things about "97' Bonnie and Clyde" that > strike me are the inclusion of Will Smiths hook "Just The Two Of Us" > which was, by Smiths account, written to his Son as a means of > bonding because Smith had married Jada and they were expecting Actually, that whole thing, "just the two of us we can make it if we try" is sampled from an old Bill Withers track from the '70's called "Just the two of us". Will Smith's entire music for the track was sampled. And just for the record, I like Tori's covers so far...but if the rest are like this, the whole concept album IS complete bullshit. She's not challenging any politics at all. Anthony >> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:09:33 -0500 From: David Mobley Subject: Re: Strange Little Girls & The Confused EWF ~ for the most part, I agree with what you said. :( about the mechanical license part, I think it, like with the case of eiminem, depends more on the agency who "cares for" the publishing rights to the artsts works. New artists usually have to give that right up to lawyers or the record companies until they "understand the business" or whatever and get their rights for anything after that first album(s) established to a "friendly" party that's out for the artists intrest, rather than the dollars that could come into play. I think that Tori being a rather adept student at the music business, and conversely Eminem being an accidental "success" and having probably something close to no knowledge of the music industry, and an admitted desire to make boatloads of cash, doesn't have his lyric rights secured by anyone but someone out to make money. I'm thinking that in the case of Tori, she may have had the foresight to make sure that anyone who wished to use her lyircs, music or anything else would have to seek her approval or at least the approval of someone who liked her, and I think mostly all the covers that people have done with Tori songs have been well done? Just a guess, I really don't know much about the specifics. Sunday, July 22, 2001, 8:13:35 AM, you wrote: Mcc> before what do you do when you are unhappy or your contract is about up Mcc> & are leaving your record company? You release a: 1) Greatest Hits album, Mcc> &/or 2) Live album &/or 3) album of COVERS. So why do performers do Yeah, i think that's the best answer here. And it also (besides the fact that Tori has a little kid now to think about) explains why it's going to be a "short" tour. Why give the record company a LOT of revenue from a new tour, when you could jump ship and make more elsewhere. (Think tori could be in the process of starting her own label?) Mcc> & TVAB to remind us who she is - Let's remember that. No, Tori knows Mcc> what she is doing, she has her reasons. I'd love to know - Does Spivak Mcc> stick with Tori as she moves to another record label or is he Atlantic Mcc> employed? He guides her career, with as I would think, her, Marks & Mcc> possibly her Dads input as well. I'd love to sit with her, have a cup of tea, Mcc> some apple cake and pick her brain. Oh, the questions I would ask! see, that's why I think that Tori's music is "safe" from people covering it at random, she has good management that actually cares about her career and doesn't want to just cash in on success. Mcc> motherhood has brought about :-) I encourage all EWF to enjoy this Mcc> record for what it is: An album of covers. We know Tori holds some Mcc> covers dear to her - "American Pie" for instance - its possible that Mcc> some of these are sweet to Tori. Yes, I will buy this album and I will this is where I have the most problem. She's done well over a dozen covers in the past with her live shows, and she's done them well. I'd have given anything to finally have a fully studio done version of Landslide, but I guess I'm still going to be waiting. bummer. I bet Tori takes a good while off after this honestly. I think she just wanted to get an album out of the way so she could "retire" for a few years to spend time with her child. I know if I was well-off enough to be able to afford it (and surely Tori is) I'd probably take a few years off work to raise a child properly. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:52:08 EDT From: Mysterilady2001@cs.com Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: is there a .....?] Hiiii Richard & EWF ~ LOL OK, I guess you all can figure out who one of my partners in crime is. He just says it so much *nicer* than I. It's 'cause he's a British Gentleman, like my Jim. Do you want the asbestos hat back or can I keep it awhile longer? It's really comfy & gets satelite TV. Sooo glad you posted, now I don't feel so freaky Toodles ~ MysT *** In a message dated 7/22/01 8:43:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, my *utterly cool* friend Richard writes: << RTA being brave again .... :-) Richard Austin wrote: > David Mobley wrote :- > > "and personally I hope I'm not the only one who thinks these covers are a > load of crap. I thought they were going to be re-interpretations, and not > just attempts to clone the songs. Out of the three songs so far I don't > think I've been able to find the "woman's perspective" in them at all. > WTF?" > > Hi folks, > One of my rare posts to PT ! > I've been thinking on what we've all heard so far and whilst chatting with a > good friend I got to wondering ... Does anybody know what the original terms > of Tori's deal with Atlantic were ? If it was a "one album with option on > the next six" type deal then SLG will be the last one (TVAB was two). If you > were an artist looking to better your terms or go to a new label (maybe your > own), wouldn't you want the last album on your current deal to be a seller, > but also one that sells without giving away any/too much new material to the > old label / deal terms ? > >From what I've heard so far, this is an album designed to Sell (with a > capital "S") rather than be a "pure" vehicle for Tori (much like YKTR). It > will still be a valid artistic statement with her interpretation of the > songs and I can't say I feel as "let down" by it as some posters have > indicated. Looks like good old common sense to me ! > It does appear to follow the pattern of "Live Album"/"Covers Album"/new deal > that so many other artists at the end of their contractual terms have > followed and I can understand that - We've all got to eat. Let's just be > thankful she chose not to do a "Metal Machine Music" instead. It would > explain the commercial slant of the single too. I'm tending to think of the > whole album & tour as pre-publicity for the NEXT album - a "Big Hit Single" > will certainly help that on it's way and I think she deserves it. I will > wait until the tour. Then we will see if there's a lot of new material being > debuted and all will probably become clearer. > SLG was possibly my all time favourite Stranglers track and it's interesting > to hear a new slant on it (even with the "Corrs" arrangement!) and it's a > good choice of songs all told. I'm still looking forward to the rest of the > album as some of them intrigue me as to how they will be done (Slayer ?). > Tori has always been different and never one to short-change the people that > buy her recordings. I think we will get a good album of interesting songs > regardless, even if it's not "Tori" enough for some tastes. We may even be > rewarded with another album of new material very quickly too. Can't be a bad > thing, can it ? Go for it, Girl ! :-) > Just a few thoughts .... > Richard >> Return-Path: Received: from rly-yh03.mx.aol.com (rly-yh03.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.35]) by air-yh04.mail.aol.com (v79.27) with ESMTP id MAILINYH410-0722114356; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:43:56 -0400 Received: from protactinium (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by rly-yh03.mx.aol.com (v79.20) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYH310-0722114322; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:43:22 -0400 Received: from [213.122.140.20] (helo=virgin.net) by protactinium with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15OLNz-0001zS-00 for Mysterilady2001@cs.com; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:43:18 +0100 Message-ID: <3B5AF3FD.DE707E94@virgin.net> Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:40:46 +0100 From: RTA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tessa Subject: [Fwd: is there a .....?] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RTA being brave again .... :-) Richard Austin wrote: > David Mobley wrote :- > > "and personally I hope I'm not the only one who thinks these covers are a > load of crap. I thought they were going to be re-interpretations, and not > just attempts to clone the songs. Out of the three songs so far I don't > think I've been able to find the "woman's perspective" in them at all. > WTF?" > > Hi folks, > One of my rare posts to PT ! > I've been thinking on what we've all heard so far and whilst chatting with a > good friend I got to wondering ... Does anybody know what the original terms > of Tori's deal with Atlantic were ? If it was a "one album with option on > the next six" type deal then SLG will be the last one (TVAB was two). If you > were an artist looking to better your terms or go to a new label (maybe your > own), wouldn't you want the last album on your current deal to be a seller, > but also one that sells without giving away any/too much new material to the > old label / deal terms ? > >From what I've heard so far, this is an album designed to Sell (with a > capital "S") rather than be a "pure" vehicle for Tori (much like YKTR). It > will still be a valid artistic statement with her interpretation of the > songs and I can't say I feel as "let down" by it as some posters have > indicated. Looks like good old common sense to me ! > It does appear to follow the pattern of "Live Album"/"Covers Album"/new deal > that so many other artists at the end of their contractual terms have > followed and I can understand that - We've all got to eat. Let's just be > thankful she chose not to do a "Metal Machine Music" instead. It would > explain the commercial slant of the single too. I'm tending to think of the > whole album & tour as pre-publicity for the NEXT album - a "Big Hit Single" > will certainly help that on it's way and I think she deserves it. I will > wait until the tour. Then we will see if there's a lot of new material being > debuted and all will probably become clearer. > SLG was possibly my all time favourite Stranglers track and it's interesting > to hear a new slant on it (even with the "Corrs" arrangement!) and it's a > good choice of songs all told. I'm still looking forward to the rest of the > album as some of them intrigue me as to how they will be done (Slayer ?). > Tori has always been different and never one to short-change the people that > buy her recordings. I think we will get a good album of interesting songs > regardless, even if it's not "Tori" enough for some tastes. We may even be > rewarded with another album of new material very quickly too. Can't be a bad > thing, can it ? Go for it, Girl ! :-) > Just a few thoughts .... > Richard > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 14:43:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Kenneth Mayer Subject: New Cd Where are you guys hearing the new songs? I thought the CD doesn't come out to the fall. Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 18:21:44 EDT From: Finney2567@aol.com Subject: Re: Crappy songs In a message dated 7/22/01 10:14:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bleepo@hotmail.com writes: << . A bad song is a bad song, and it is quite a feat to take such a gorgeous song like Heart of Gold and turn it into such a wreck. If these are the stand-out tracks, then God help us all. >> Yeah and also...speak for yourself.. I actually like what I have heard already. :P God help me. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 17:14:29 EDT From: ToriLiscious@cs.com Subject: Re: Tori Does Dallas i'm sorry, but why the fuck is tori playing in a freakin stadium? what the G** D*** Fu**??????????????????? i mean the starplex (now subtley-named smirnoff center) was bad enough! great now i have to win tix off the radio to get good seats. thanks tori. some really pissed of stuff, micah ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 19:23:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: PS Richard Austin said: > Anybody played "Spot the Piano" on the new tracks ? > And the tour is .... Solo Piano. The tour is Tori solo with keyboards. The Atlantic press release said the "shows will feature Tori alone at her keyboards . . ." I am expecting a panoply of synthesizer activity, but that's just guessing. And when she did that handful of piano shows at the end of 1999 she showed she is perfectly capable of creating valid new arrangements for band songs using only piano--even if she had to bang the strings with her bare hands to do it. One thing I've well learned over the years is there is often a twist to things that makes many prior assumptions moot once all the facts are known. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V6 #122 *************************************