From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V4 #52 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Sunday, February 21 1999 Volume 04 : Number 052 Today's Subjects: ----------------- re: RAINN on 20/20 [Shannon ] RE: Tori on HT radio [MoneekaEWF@aol.com] Re: Music and Lyrics [Richard Handal ] Re: technical elements of Tori's music? [Jennifer Lynn Roth ] Re: Rasberry Swirl Necklace ["Cor.ab.ella, the mookie faerie sushi raspbe] tori ramble bamble mamble lamble camble ramble ["sex monkey...that funky ] lunchroom manor?? [Talulagrl1@aol.com] Re: Tori on HT radio [Erinita@aol.com] Re: tori ramble bamble mamble lamble camble ramble ["Hanna Paulus" ] Re: tori quote [Blood4Rose@aol.com] Re: tori ramble bamble mamble lamble camble ramble [Sarah ] Re:Re:Re:tori and trent ["spark" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:33:41 -0600 From: Shannon Subject: re: RAINN on 20/20 <> the address of my site is http://www.angelfire.com/ns/barbados7/index.html Shannon - -- "do you know what this is doing to me here in my head?" - -tori amos ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:23:46 EST From: MoneekaEWF@aol.com Subject: RE: Tori on HT radio Our cheesy store radio station generally entertains us with typical muzak and opera. For the past two nights, it's played Raspberry Swirl and Cruel. Terrifically shocking.>> just a quick note, one night about a year ago (yeah, this is old) i was at Frische's Big Boy and I heard a very cheesy instrumental version of CFG. it was in the background pretty low and I knew that I knew the song, and I finally figured it out and was laughing real hard. I asked the waitress who picked their music, but she said it was just a tape that got sent to them. it didn't really do the song any justice though. heh. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:41:10 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: Music and Lyrics Heather Parsons said: > Dammit, Richard...you always post the best stuff on this list, and you > get me thinking... ;) I've been letting this thing stew for > DAYS now...let's see if I can articulate... [...] > And Richard, you're right, as always... You're very nice, Heather, but I can't let that go by without objection. I may not always be right, but it's good to believe some folks might be prodded a bit to think a bit more than they would had I not posted about something. > Anyway, I don't think I've explained myself very well, but that's okay. You're wrong, Heather. I enjoyed that post more than any I've seen in a long time. :-) Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 02:18:06 -0500 (EST) From: Jennifer Lynn Roth Subject: Re: technical elements of Tori's music? I am a serious student of music and I completely appreciate Tori's music and the importance and beauty of it, so please don't generalize. She is taught in music classes about music in pop culture, but since she does not fall into a category of tonal or 20th century or new age, she isn't taught in music classes. Niether are Elton John, Jerry Lee Lewis, or Bob Dylan OR The Beatles - Not in classic theory courses. So before you complain, put it in persepective. No offense meant, no offense taken. Faery blessings, Jenn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:33:35 EST From: Blood4Rose@aol.com Subject: Re: Rasberry Swirl Necklace In a message dated 2/19/99 8:27:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, rahvin@wam.umd.edu writes: << Hey, has anyone seen any of the Rasberry Swirl necklaces being sold anyplace? I've looked at Here and eBay. -Bob >> I saw the necklaces being sold at Hot Topic a few months back for $10.00...I'm not sure if they are still carrying them or not...I hope this helps.. *~~~*~~~*Blood4Rose*~~~*~~~* ************************************************************ THE BEST IN DALLAS GOTH ***GROPIUS*** http://www.skinny.net/ "I wear make-up and dress this way because I think it makes me look better. I am not doing it to get people to stare at me. If I wanted to do that I could just put a pot on my head, wear a wedding dress and run screaming down the street" ~~Boy George~ Sadness lets you wear stilettos, sadness lets you dance in the moonlight. She just has dark rims around her eyes." - -Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:56:19 PST From: "Shaigirl 19/f" Subject: Re: Rasberry Swirl Necklace Try at the wanna-be goth store, Hot Topic! The one around here (W.Lafayette, IN) still has 'em a few weeks ago! Let me know if you still can't find it! I'll check out my store and see. ~ SHaigirl - ----Original Message Follows---- Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:01:17 -0500 From: Bob Moyer To: Precious Things Subject: Rasberry Swirl Necklace Reply-To: Bob Moyer Hey, has anyone seen any of the Rasberry Swirl necklaces being sold anyplace? I've looked at Here and eBay. -Bob "So don't give me respect don't give me a piece of your preciousness... I can be cruel I don't know why." -Tori **~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~** Shaigirl 19/f * shaigirl79@hotmail.com AOL IM: Vampgirl79 * ICQ#: 7032035 My So-Called Life * http://glenmar.com/~mmb **~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~** "The one person who really knows me best, says I'm like a cat. The kind of cat that you just can't pick up and throw in your lap. No, the kind that doesn't mind being held only when it's her idea. Yeah, the kind that feels what she decides to feel when she's good and ready to feel it." -Ani Difranco ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:41:51 EST From: "Cor.ab.ella, the mookie faerie sushi raspberry swirl girl" Subject: Re: Rasberry Swirl Necklace The raspbery swirl necklaces are still being sold for $10 at Hot Topic. Their website is www.hottopiconline.com , and they should have it there. Hope this helps! Debi >Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:01:17 -0500 >From: Bob Moyer >To: Precious Things >Subject: Rasberry Swirl Necklace >Reply-To: Bob Moyer > > >Hey, has anyone seen any of the Rasberry Swirl necklaces being sold >anyplace? I've looked at Here and eBay. > > -Bob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 03:18:32 -0500 From: "sex monkey...that funky monkey!" Subject: tori ramble bamble mamble lamble camble ramble I suppose you could say that certain e-mails to this mailing list lately have provoked my thoughts of Tori. There's something about this mailing list that makes me feel very comfortable, and has for quite a while. Unlike some other lists I've been on, I don't think I've seen one non-Tori related e-mail, yet all of them are very personal. This list is like one big cup of tea in front of the fireplace while Tori plays on the stereo. My point? I think that it is a mailing list like this (if I'm not mistaken, isn't this the "official" Tori Amos mailing list) that makes our appreciation for Tori grow. Before I moved all of this mail over to this name, I was ToriPyro on AOL, and I would delete and delete e-mail after e-mail. I think it was for that reason I felt uninformed, and unattached. It's very strange when you think about it. I suppose in everyone's life there is this one artist that surpasses another. It's when you're in that cd store and you have only enough money to buy one, and you buy this artist's cd without question...or you see their face on tv and your heart begins to race. This is what Tori is to me. She is not a artist to me anymore...or a woman, or a philosopher, or a healer, or a food-lover, or a mentor...if there is a word to combine every one of those qualities and then some...then you have my personal definition of Tori. She once said how when you make love, you're like beams of light. That's kind of how I would describe Tori...an essence, a light...yet she is darkness. My sTori is somewhat strange, you can read it at: (http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/8057/mystori.htm) I don't know why I've written this e-mail. It seems lately there have been just massive e-mails that have just nooked a little chunk out of me. It's not only the artist, but it's the fans too. There's this sense of unity between us all. Yes, I've met some Tori fans who are nasty people, but these are the people who kind of look at me as if I have three heads when I try to describe the depth of her lyrics...or they've just bought the four albums because they though "that Tori chick was cool." I'm not putting these people down, but I'm glad to know who really appreciates Tori, and I think I can say that for everyone on this list. My room contains over 20 Tori posters, I have 46 cd's of her, I have many books and vinyls, and my friend decides to call me obsessed? What do you guys on the list think? ARE we obsessed? I'm beginning to think I am, considering how much care I put into my Tori stuff and referring to her and talking about her...hmm. I've managed to ramble...yes yes...I hope this pointless e-mail doesn't piss anyone off...if it does..........the name's lucifer - mother lucifer *plays james bond theme* much love, Vicki http://travel.to/desolate.winters ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:12:47 EST From: Talulagrl1@aol.com Subject: lunchroom manor?? i was watching this crappy mtv special today well.....because i have no life and there was this show on talking about that new movie Jawbreaker and they were having these little contests as to who has the nicest boobs for example(whatever)and one of the little contests was who has the nicest lunchroom manor....and tori was like #3 or something...whats with that.... i didnt really understand it....what do they mean by that?rachel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:27:32 EST From: Erinita@aol.com Subject: Re: Tori on HT radio In a message dated 2/20/99 9:33:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, MoneekaEWF@aol.com writes: << precious-things@smoe.org >> Also, the Taco Bell I frequent plays "Blue Skies" all the time from the Party of Five soundtrack. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:12:49 GMT From: "Hanna Paulus" Subject: Re: tori ramble bamble mamble lamble camble ramble Yes, I've met some Tori fans who are nasty people, but >these are the people who kind of look at me as if I have three heads when I >try to describe the depth of her lyrics...or they've just bought the four >albums because they though "that Tori chick was cool." I know exactly what people you're talking about, people will tell me, "oh, I love tori amos," and I'll say yeah me too...but then I realize we aren't talking about the same love after about 5 minutes into the the conversation, it usually doesn't even take that much time. >My room contains over 20 Tori posters, I have 46 cd's of her, I have many >books and vinyls, and my friend decides to call me obsessed? What do you >guys on the list think? ARE we obsessed? I'm beginning to think I am, >considering how much care I put into my Tori stuff and referring to her and >talking about her...hmm. It's like, I think in a sense we're all a little obsessed, my friends all think Tori is all I care about...and to some extent she is...ha...I mean the first thing you see when you walk into my room is this giant Tori collage I made, I have the tour book framed on my wall, and pictures of her on my bulletin board. Tori is the only artist I would buy a $50 bootleg on without thought or concern...sure the one thing I would have trouble deciding was which one to choose. I'll buy anything I see--Tori-related without question, and if I don't hae money, it will be put on hold for me. I think that kind of constitutes as obsessive. I buy about 4 CD's right away when I get paid every 2 weeks, and most of the time Tori is included, I'm totally building my CD collection right now, and I have like 60 CD's I like....27 are Tori...and that's what I listen to most of the time. Tori is so amazing with her music, she has so many songs, and none of them sound the same, you know?--There is one to match every mood I'm in and then even songs that match my inbetween moods. This is enough rambling from me. I just wanted to say, that this list make me feel really comfortable as well, you guys are all great people and everyone on this list is honestly absolutely fabulous. Bye. Love, Hanna "...Definition of the plague of undivinity And we're always hiding Beneath anothers definition of self Beneath the rightiousness of being It's purely based on addiction..."--Always Hiding--By Me. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:57:14 EST From: ToriGalore@aol.com Subject: New Tori Video I don't think this has been mentioned, but yesterday on Vh1 I saw a new Tori video... much like Sarah McLachlan, VH1 has made a video out of Storytellers footage. They made a SATY video. It was lovely, btw. ^_^ Love Always, Lissa ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 03:15:34 -0800 From: Becky Now Subject: Storytellers I'm having a huge problem... tori is on storytelllers this sunday at 10:00pm and my VH1 goes off at 6:30. so I'm not going to be able to see it. I feel like crying, so can someone please volunteer to tape it or make a copy of it for me and I will send you like ten bucks or something? Please, I am desperate for my Tori, Love and hoping, Becky The Screaming Bluebells: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Nook/5435/index.html ICQ #: 30446403 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:41:56 EST From: Blood4Rose@aol.com Subject: Re: tori quote In a message dated 2/20/99 3:31:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, Erinita writes: << Hey! Normally, I recognize all the quotes people include in their postings (If they are from a song.) But I don't recognize the above, I like it a lot, if it is from a song, what song is it? >> Actually I'm not sure what the quote is from, I subscribe to a couple Tori Amos Quote of the Day mailing lists and thats where I got it from... *Blood4Rose* ************************************************************ THE BEST IN DALLAS GOTH ***GROPIUS*** http://www.skinny.net/ Sadness lets you wear stilettos, sadness lets you dance in the moonlight. She just has dark rims around her eyes." ~~Tori Amos "CONFIDENTIAL TO LETTER WRITERS: Thanks for trying to reassure me, but it's really not very comforting when you tell me 'I'm not a stalker'- cuz all my stalkers say that." ~~Poppy Z. Brite ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:48:30 -0800 (PST) From: Sarah Subject: Re: tori ramble bamble mamble lamble camble ramble well, i totally agree w/ you. i love the bonding i can have w/ people i've never met b/c of tori. i get all excited seeing the preview for storytellers and anything else tori on tv. i freak out if she comes on the radio even though they've never played anything i don't have. my mom says i'm obsessed and so do some of my friends (the non toriphiles). ok so what if i have a thousand pics and 30 cd's. ok my walls look kinda obsessive but... tori makes things click w/ me sometimes. once my aunt asked me what it was i liked about tori's music b/c she had never heard her. that left me speechless b/c i just couldn't think or course the lyrics and the piano but it's just the whole essence of tori. the whole aura she radiates. her music has this effect on me that i can't really even try to explain. it's just i'm in a state of bliss when she's playing even if i'm sad i just "dance w/ sad" and actually sometimes enjoy it. her music has helped me to really savor the moments when i really feel b/c of the music b/c of a situation b/c of a person it doesn't matter. tori has also helped me understand different things about myself and society(s). the concerts have enabled me to meet many amazing people and of course the list has done the same. well i think i'm prob mumbling b/c i just read a couple of sentences and can't grasp what i've written but i'm going to leave it b/c it may have been something buried deep in my unconscious. sarah - ---"sex monkey...that funky monkey!" wrote: > > > I suppose you could say that certain e-mails to this mailing list lately > have provoked my thoughts of Tori. There's something about this mailing > list that makes me feel very comfortable, and has for quite a while. Unlike > some other lists I've been on, I don't think I've seen one non-Tori related > e-mail, yet all of them are very personal. This list is like one big cup of > tea in front of the fireplace while Tori plays on the stereo. > > My point? I think that it is a mailing list like this (if I'm not mistaken, > isn't this the "official" Tori Amos mailing list) that makes our > appreciation for Tori grow. Before I moved all of this mail over to this > name, I was ToriPyro on AOL, and I would delete and delete e-mail after > e-mail. I think it was for that reason I felt uninformed, and unattached. > It's very strange when you think about it. > > I suppose in everyone's life there is this one artist that surpasses > another. It's when you're in that cd store and you have only enough money > to buy one, and you buy this artist's cd without question...or you see their > face on tv and your heart begins to race. This is what Tori is to me. She > is not a artist to me anymore...or a woman, or a philosopher, or a healer, > or a food-lover, or a mentor...if there is a word to combine every one of > those qualities and then some...then you have my personal definition of > Tori. > > She once said how when you make love, you're like beams of light. That's > kind of how I would describe Tori...an essence, a light...yet she is > darkness. My sTori is somewhat strange, you can read it at: > (http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Atrium/8057/mystori.htm) > > > I don't know why I've written this e-mail. It seems lately there have been > just massive e-mails that have just nooked a little chunk out of me. It's > not only the artist, but it's the fans too. There's this sense of unity > between us all. Yes, I've met some Tori fans who are nasty people, but > these are the people who kind of look at me as if I have three heads when I > try to describe the depth of her lyrics...or they've just bought the four > albums because they though "that Tori chick was cool." I'm not putting > these people down, but I'm glad to know who really appreciates Tori, and I > think I can say that for everyone on this list. > > My room contains over 20 Tori posters, I have 46 cd's of her, I have many > books and vinyls, and my friend decides to call me obsessed? What do you > guys on the list think? ARE we obsessed? I'm beginning to think I am, > considering how much care I put into my Tori stuff and referring to her and > talking about her...hmm. > > I've managed to ramble...yes yes...I hope this pointless e-mail doesn't piss > anyone off...if it does..........the name's lucifer - mother lucifer *plays > james bond theme* > > much love, > Vicki > http://travel.to/desolate.winters > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:51:26 EST From: ToriBoi@aol.com Subject: Re: Songs that Tori could cover my boyfriend always thought Tori should cover "Paradise City" by Guns N Roses! HAHAHAHA. He actually mentioned it to her once at a meet and greet and she gave one of those half smiles that said "i don't fucking think so!", but to tell ya the truth, I think it would actually be pretty good :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:14:00 EST From: Tasha325@aol.com Subject: Where should we go in N.O.? Well, a friend and I are spring breaking for a few days in New Orleans and I would be very grateful for any Tori leads there. I have been to Virgin and such, of course, so am looking for some out of the way places that would likely have rarities. If you are familiar with the area and know of any other cool places (even if non-tori related) let me know as well! thanks, tasha ------------------------------ Date: 20 Feb 99 18:21:13 MST From: the Subject: vh1 i visited the vh1 website to see if they have anything tori since storytellers will be coming soon... they do have a little blurb...after clicking on the storytellers preview on the first page you go to another page and then have to click on the ftch pic (or at least i did cause clicking on the words beside it led me to something with rugrats pictures....) i read the thing they had about her...and though it had many small mistakes (like Y Kant instead of Y Kant Tori Read...and Iiiee instead of iieee...) what surprised me was this: *1994's Under the Pink was a self-described "impressionistic painting" that sprang out of her battle with cervical cancer and the loss of her voice* what?? is that true? i've never heard or read about it before... ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 01:16:01 +0100 From: "spark" Subject: Re:Re:Re:tori and trent http://members.aol.com/dangalee/toriphoria.html here,i copied the address for ya. now ,i agree with you with most of the things:i think(i know!!!) that it's shallow to analise lyrics like that:putting them in a box with a tag on it- that's childish.i know that 'listening' to the lyrics without listening to the song itself is ...at least boring. i remember when i read the lyrics to Purple people (when i never heard the song) and it wasn't interesting for me at all.BUT ,when i manage to got that single and heard it i was like...WOAH!!!(this happened with Radiohead lyrics also and more) THOSE ARE SO FUCKIN' GREAT LYRICS!!!!!!. so my point is (tadaaa!) we can analize the lyrics (and tori's are sure worth it -i never heard such deep words(when it's related to music,but,even wider -e.e.cummings is great and all but tori's still like...) except when i got some translations of the Einsturzende Neubauten- if you get it on english ever ,read them - it's like better than Goethe or Handke. mike mills once said why REM never print lyrics on the insides of their booklets.cause Stipe's lyrics can't be devided from the music.that's so true.i already talked about it.WORDS EWOKE EMOTIONS ,BUT EMOTIONS ARE NOT(!!!!!!!!) RACIONAL!!!!!(!!!!!)! "he didn't saw me watching from the airplane he wiped the tear and throw away our appleseed" are the most beautyful lyrics i've ever heard.really.i really can't explain what,the fuck, they mean,i can just sence them and i always imagine pictures.like ,i see BfP like tori's chanelling(here's that word again) stories about this village and every song reprasent this one home/family or better ,a girl.i've only listened about how Faulkner's books have that beautyful,south(tori is from south aaand ...(melodramatic pause) a great fan of Faulkner) mellow atmosphere,but i FEEL BfP like that.especially PW because it (she) has that barn,drained grass(what's the word fot it?-horses eat it)and cow-shit smell and all but in giving myself those pictures lyrics helped me,gave me leads and allusions (slag shit,stag pit,...whatever) ,so as a you see ,lyrics help in EXPIRIENCING the music.there's was an interesting exchange of oppinions in the list called 'composing and its appreciation' by my good friend,paul wren and richard handall that i would like you to read-it has some interesting points. now,back to father lucifer.i think that sigh "hey" on the begining of the song is giving us the whole atmosphere of it(pardon me ,her) and that's what makes tori so talented in(i should know-i play the piano for over 10 years) : giving us the whole feeling through one single sigh.and with that children-song-like piano chords i'm imaging Lucifer(which is not a destructive force,but the dark side that horses rode her to explore) sitting on her oiano ,feeling lost ,sad and melancholic,and she's like :oh ,whats wrong,dear. UtP is all like snowy and small (cornflake side) and i imagin it without those bursts like 'god' ,'waitress' ,'space dog' and all like 'cloud on my tongue and 'icycle'(i guess i'll put it in one concept when i listen to it more),like songs that are dissapearing,are hardly there. i searced for that kind of sound of piano,so small and fragile,and receantly heard Ravel's 'Gaspard de la nuit',and his one sonata for piano and violin in which the piano has this long intro and reminds me on tori SO MUCH.there's ,btw, this Rachmaninoff's prelude that has almost the same riff like 'icycle'... ...now i continue writting this ,it's been a few days and i was so bussy reharsing and practising this Bach two violins and piano d-minor(one of the best pieces ever wrutten!!!) with this girl and this guy and we played it in my school and we past for the 'public class' which is like we play in tuesday in the same little hall,only it is more...glamurous(they turn on more lights!how 'bout that?) or 'i don't know the words' like. so,about tori's lyrics, in these couple of days i listened Laika (silver apples of the moon) for the first time and i listened it all the time in my walkman while being in a bus,walking and stuff,and i learned something:the words and poetry should just give you allusions,images and that's all,then everybody can slip in that vision with their own asociations and feelings.Laika's words are like that:seems like just a bounch of words mixed up together , but they give you such deep visions -it's not explainable (that is the beaty of it).i always wanted to write,but i didn't have the'subject',and now ,i realize this channeling thing is essential:just let it go!Let it go OUT of your mind!!! i have 239 unread messages in my post (those creeps really gave all og them self about the 'beer' topic on toriandmore list-and i think of unsubscribing from it,cuz that people don't talk of ANYTHING interesting)but i read these girl who talked about how it's the music that makes you feeeel tori,and words are not as powerful as they would be w/out it.and YESSS,that bridge on "Spark"(in video that is that helicopter shot-done really great) is soooo powerfullllllll!!!!! btw,i didn't see anyone nodesing that there is a line in 'CALS' that goes 'make my own pretty machine',so i'm just reminding that that phraze is the name of the first NIN album,so if that makes anyone happy and torivan-ish ....yes it could be refering to trent,but there's more to it,of course. music is a mystic expirience and it takes olace in metaphisical,and unfortunally,we can't send our images and all that tender,sofisticated emotions we don't have words for into each others brain. but,that is possible if we expirience it together (this sounds so hippy),and don't think in words that are limits to our minds-that's why i don't have any ,i must say,fascist prejudice toward alchohol or pot,or even drugs,cuz i don't have a dependence-complex,i don't run from reality or any pain it gives to me, and yes,hell,i have my psychoanalasyst. i'm gonna send this letter to the list too so if anybody reads it whole(which i doubt) can enter into this discussion,cuz it's NEVER over! spark@eunet.yu ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V4 #52 ************************************