From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V3 #399 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Monday, November 16 1998 Volume 03 : Number 399 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: CALS - Delerium's ["Luna 17" ] ohhhh [kytiara ] Karen carpenter ["Daisy Dead Petals" ] Re: compelation confusion [Beth Coulter ] Fw: suggestions appreciated.....respond privately, thank you :) ["Daisy D] Tori questions... [Corusca812@aol.com] Tori News [Greg Burrell ] Oakland 9/15 comments [Beth Winegarner ] Re: Ithaca show 11/8 [Freque79@aol.com] Re: CALS - Delerium's "'til the end of time" [Freque79@aol.com] Tori coverage in the UK and Europe ["Mike Gray" ] what i would choose but thats just me [Bobdel123@aol.com] Re: CALS - Delerium's "'til the end of time" ["Lynne Toussaint" [Nadyne Mielke [desmond in a tut] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:04:53 PST From: "Luna 17" Subject: Re: CALS - Delerium's >> Does anyone else listen to >>Delerium? This is on their newest album, "Karma." It's the last track, "'til >>the end of time." Is that indeed the same beat as CALS? I think that it's virtually the same, but there's less to it than the beats that Tori used...almost like the drums are softer or something like that. I haven't listened to the song in a long time, so I could be remembering this incorrectly... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 02:13:05 -0500 From: kytiara Subject: ohhhh amhearst was incredible. in no particular order, and not complete by a long shot: frog on my toe precious things bells for her leather waitress sugar iieee doughnut song spark graveyard muhammed my friend (with band!) raspberry swirl hotel past the mission pretty good year oh wow, was it amazing. she talked a lot to us, gave us a cute little intro to sugar where she talked about her and her husband, sex and trying to write a bside... She told us about her five year old nephew, and how she cussedright back at him when he swore at her, then laughed and said, "Just a good christian aunt. heh." :p ohh, it was so good. more details to follow, but this show was astoundingly good. - -vanessa- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 07:57:51 -0600 From: "Daisy Dead Petals" Subject: Karen carpenter ok, Walking with you could be a good wedding song too, but i dont happen to like that song. Baltimore would work...just insert name of husband/wife instead of Baltimore--that would be funny. Etienne maybe would be ok. Bagpipes are a nice touch if they are played right. Im just partial to song for eric cuz it was so perfect at my wedding...it is one of the VERY FEW "love songs" tori has done. If you like the Cure, Love Song would be good. Daisy Melanie & Lenny Green lgreen@coredcs.com "Faeries wear boots & you gotta believe me I saw what I saw and I tell you no lies" - -Black Sabbath "Remember me? You know, the tomato from upstairs?" - -Marilyn Monroe in Seven Year Itch ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:41:36 -0500 From: Beth Coulter Subject: Re: compelation confusion The tape wasn't pushed back. The local Farmer's Mart had it this weekend and they always recieve the sat. ahead of release. hmm, guess that means I'll be getting the RS/Cruel single next Sat. :) At 04:34 PM 11/15/98 PST, Phillip Garcia wrote: > >Hello EWFS, > i went to the music store by my house today and walked in and heared >"IIEEE" on the sound system. It reminded me to ask the guy at the >counter about the compelation video tape. And he said " we were >supposed to get it on this tuesday, but it got pushed back to next >tuesday" god, everything tori makes gets pushed back all the time!!! >phillipg > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 07:42:29 -0600 From: "Daisy Dead Petals" Subject: Fw: suggestions appreciated.....respond privately, thank you :) ahh hungarian wedding song is not good unless you really dont want to be getting married...the words are anti wedding--who wants to hear about maggots at your wedding??? - -----Original Message----- From: Talulagrl1@aol.com To: glyttergrrl@hotmail.com ; TypeOTori@aol.com ; precious-things@smoe.org Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 10:14 PM Subject: Re: suggestions appreciated.....respond privately, thank you :) > >the Hungarian Wedding Song is good >but really short....you could loop it >Over It and All The Girls Hate Her are great......no words >Never Seen Blue would be great too. >hope that helps. >rachel > ><< > hi....i would like to hear the same....typeotori if yyou would share or > anyone else with ideas share with me also in private email...i;d love to > hear them..thanks! > becka > >theres a little wedding in the planning. not for a while, but still... > > > >any suggestions for fitting tori wedding songs... >> > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:33:35 EST From: Corusca812@aol.com Subject: Tori questions... Hello all, I am wondering if anyone can give me an immediate response to this question.. does Tori like 1) Pumpkin bread 2) nuts 3) Raisins The reason I'm asking is because I am baking some bread for Tori and her band to hopefully give her at her show tomorrow, and I want to know if anybody knows anything about her food preferences^Å. or if you have any baking suggestions let me know! If someone could respond this afternoon I would love you! Thanks so much and ToriLove^Å - -Sarai ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 98 01:37:34 -0800 From: Greg Burrell Subject: Tori News Hi Everybody, Just a reminder that "TORI AMOS: THE COMPLETE COLLECTION:1992-1998" is scheduled for release tomorrow (November 17) in the US. I don't know if it will be released outside the US. This collection contains sixteen of Tori's videos: Spark Silent All These Years Cornflake Girl - (European B&W version) Past The Mission China God Talula Raspberry Swirl Winter Jackie's Strength Caught A Lite Sneeze Cornflake Girl - (U.S. color version) Pretty Good Year Crucify Hey Jupiter Professional Widow - (previously unreleased in the U.S.) The price will be about $20 and it should be available at most music stores. You can also order it on-line from a variety of places including www.musicblvd.com and www.towerrecords.com. And congratulations to Tori for being named one of Glamour magazine's ten "Women of the Year". These honors are given to women whom Glamour believes had the greatest impact on the nation and women's issues over the course of 1998. -Greg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:41:55 -0800 From: Beth Winegarner Subject: Oakland 9/15 comments Teddy Bear wrote of the Oakland 9/15 show: >I could SWEAR that she skipped a verse, >though! The one with my favorite line: "Now she seems to be sand under his >shoes/There's nothing I can do." Somebody who was there: Am I crazy? Yeah, I'm pretty sure she skipped it that night, although I don't know if she skipped it other nights. I was kind of disappointed -- that's my favorite verse. Of 'Waitress' Teddy Bear Wrote: >"I'm gonna go where she goes > I'm gonna get me one of those > I believe in something > I believe in that girl > I believe she's my Jesus" Does anyone know this part completely? Because there are two lines I know for sure -- "I believe in her goodness/I believe she's the Devil, bitch (or I believe she's a Devil Bitch)." I could really use to have those lyrics. Of course she's usually yelling at that point so it's hard to tell. :) And again, Teddy Bear wrote: >P.S. Oops, I forgot the most interesting >"added" lyric, during the "Horses" encore: "I'm looking for seraphim." >(angels represented as babies in religiously inspired art--could this be a >reference to her miscarriage?) Hmmm... Careful with your angels, there. You're thinking of cherubim. Seraphim are ancient, tall, wise angels -- I think they're just one step down from arcangels. And the 'dark half' of the seraphim are the nephilim. The seraphim protect people ... did she really sing that? it's interesting, nonetheless. Beth - -- "Those who feel the breath of sadness, sit down next to me Those who find they're touched by madness, sit down next to me Those who find themselves ridiculous, sit down next to me." (James) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:39:46 EST From: Freque79@aol.com Subject: Re: Ithaca show 11/8 In a message dated 11/13/98 9:42:41 PM Central Standard Time, shyrrl@hotmail.com writes: > I asked Tori just what it was she was eating during this at the > night-M&G of the Houston show, because I was so damn curious about the > "soup", and she replied that it was Ginger. This makes sense to me in a > way because I think I heard somewhere that ginger helps your throat... > or am i totally off? Nope, you're right on. Ginger is very helpful for your throat, and if you have a cold or something. My brother uses it a lot. He makes fresh ginger tea and even fresh ginger ice cream and some other stuff. It's really great. Mairie http://members.tripod.com/~raspberryswirl/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:28:15 EST From: Freque79@aol.com Subject: Re: CALS - Delerium's "'til the end of time" In a message dated 11/13/98 9:28:39 PM Central Standard Time, woj@smoe.org writes: > "Delerium, a band on the Nettwerk label > comprised of Bill Leeb and Rhys Fuller (aka Front > Line Assembly, Synasthaesia, etc.) recently put out > their latest CD entitled Karma. Track 11, "'til the > end of time" features the drum loop from Tori's > "Caught a Lite Sneeze" at certain points. (Some > have disagreed, saying that it is just a loop that > sounds familiar to CALS, but there is *no* doubt in > my mind that that is what it is). Cool, I'm not just hearing things. Delerium doesn't have to credit Tori with the loop they used, do they? Mairie http://members.tripod.com/~raspberryswirl/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:53:47 -0000 From: "Mike Gray" Subject: Tori coverage in the UK and Europe Hi Guys, I just thought I'd break my extended silence and have another bash at upsetting those nice people at east/west UK. It's becoming something of a hobby. As far as I can tell, nothing has been decided about a UK version of the forthcoming US video of videos? Well, I'd like to sit here and predict doom - there won't *be* a UK version because Tori has been effectively abandoned. While scrolling through the highway robbery of Esprit's price list, I noticed that they were selling the European "Swirl" single with a note saying "withdrawn in the UK in favour of Jackie's Strength" - since when? If my feeble memory serves, surely Jackie's Strength was withdrawn in favour of Raspberry Swirl... another own goal from the specialists at EIL, I guess, or was this *really* what E/w told the retailers. If so, it must have left them pretty confused. Anyway, what I'm entirely failing to say, is I've got to the point of being irate at East/West's treatment of Tori during the current run. How on earth did they expect the album to succeed when they not only failed to release more than one single (which they falied to promote), but they also managed to alienate at least 100% of the casual fans who would have bought a couple of the singles from the album, and then perhaps later bought the album. What did the UK do that was so wrong that we didn't deserve more than one single? What did we do that meant that our favourite artist was allowed to launch an album which was expected to do well without promotional work on any *real* scale? Granted, Europe got the Raspberry Swirl single - so what? From what I can gather, it didn't sell particularly well. Guess why? No promotion! (Anyone noticing a pattern yet?) - and yet in the UK they decided to press the CDs, send the promos and not publish. There are still Raspberry Swirl remixes that aren't commercially available - "Naked" and "Sticky Extended Instrumental" which were found on the UK promos ("Naked" on the CD, "Instrumental" on the 12") - but yet they aren't even being released on the US single. Is there a limit on the number of tracks on a US single that these can't be included? Also what's with the news that "Spark" is to be featured on the single? Does this mean we're going to lose the "Shady Feline" mix of Cruel or one of the RS mixes? The blatant commerciality of the singles chart in the UK (New song backed with two 'hit' songs either in their studio form or a live/outtake/remixed/whatever form) is something I hope doesn't spread over to the US. I believe that many fans find it annoying to have to buy tracks they already have... The "choirgirl era" has been the era in my opinion that the record companies on both sides of the Atlantic finally lost it. Tori hasn't lost it, she still does things just as well as she always did, if not better, but the record company have failed to grasp a few simple facts. Firstly - Tori fans are massively loyal. Secondly - Tori fans often attend *more* than one concert. There aren't in fact as many fans as they might think, they're often the same people attending multiple concerts. I firmly believe this is what the 'arena' premise was based on - that if they put her in a big venue, she'll sell it out because she can sell out the small concerts. Thirdly - If you release it, we will buy. If you don't release it, we can't. Fourthly - Tori *is* a minority interest and isn't likely to get any more mainstream. She lost most of her mainstream audience with Pele IMHO - Pink let a lot of people into Tori's world, and then Pele locked them back out because they either didn't 'get' it, or didn't persevere with the album. Atlantic wanted a mainstream hit album, they wanted to push Tori into a different arena. As far as I can see, it hasn't worked. So in all, we've lost "Merman" (the promised UK B-Side to Jackie's Strength) and probably other tracks that were recorded on the Monday before the UK tour began in order to pad out the then forthcoming UK JS singles. There's no way there were only two tracks (Never Seen Blue / Beulah Land) recorded in that session. There must have been at least three (I assume in fact there were three which would have lead to the UK CD Singles being : JS, Merman, NSB. JS, Beulah Land, ) because when I talked to Tori during the UK tour, she said she'd recorded the B-Sides on the Monday, I know she'd done Jools Holland on the Tuesday, and then started the tour on the Wednesday in Liverpool. I have to wonder if any EWF would care to broach this with Tori if they see her during the tour at the moment before it ends - I know that meet 'n' greets are *far* more hectic over there, but I'm sure many other European EWF would be *very* interested to know what she thinks of the situation. If there is to be a 2*CD live set will E/W even bother releasing that? Because if they really don't believe people are going to buy her singles, will they believe that such an album is economically viable? What I'm trying to say is that Tori needs a transfer to a label with more vision and a degree of determination to make an artist succeed. They've done *far* more promotion for Jewel's "Spirit" album in the UK press than they did for "Choirgirl" and compared to Tori, Jewel is *entirely* unknown in the UK. I'll stop ranting now and let everyone contradict me - I'm probably inaccurate with some of the US comments, so... Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:13:22 EST From: Bobdel123@aol.com Subject: Re: my dream list ---- ah....sigh thanks guys i love all the positive input from my setlist i had no idea it was that good but o well i wish it could happen and knowing my luck it would but i would miss it ah to tori it may go one day i hope all love in tori bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:54:13 -0500 From: desmond in a tutu Subject: Re: CALS - Delerium's "'til the end of time" also sprach Freque79@aol.com: >Cool, I'm not just hearing things. no, but we still don't know for sure whether or not delerium actually sampled tori on that track. >Delerium doesn't have to credit Tori with the loop they used, do they? depends on whether or not they want to get sued. :) seriously though, by the time that _karma_ was released, the whole sampling thing had come to a head, so one would think that they would have credited tori if they did sample her. hmmmm. okay, i just checked that delerium website i mentioned yesterday . the credits for _karma_ do include information about the samples they used and tori is not mentioned at all. so, unless they are lying, i guess the case is closed: they did not sample tori. they simply created a beat which is very similar to the one in "cals". woj ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:57:54 PST From: "shyrrl *" Subject: lost songs Okay, I remember hearing her mention a song "Snow Cherries in France" and how it was left off of Choirgirl, along with another song. Does Anyone know what happened to these? Or if they'll EVER surface? jenn > >So in all, we've lost "Merman" (the promised UK B-Side to Jackie's >Strength) and probably other tracks that were recorded on the Monday >before the UK tour began in order to pad out the then forthcoming UK >JS singles. >There's no way there were only two tracks (Never Seen Blue / Beulah >Land) recorded in that session. There must have been at least three >(I assume in fact there were three which would have lead to the UK CD >Singles being : JS, Merman, NSB. JS, Beulah Land, here) because when I talked to Tori during the UK tour, she said >she'd recorded the B-Sides on the Monday, I know she'd done Jools >Holland on the Tuesday, and then started the tour on the Wednesday in >Liverpool. > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ @ @ "The most important thing i could ever say to somebody is, @ @ "sometimes i just breathe you in." @ @ - Tori Amos @ @ @ @ "What girls do to each other is beyond description. No chinese @ @ torture comes close." @ @ - Tori Amos @ @ My Pages: @ @ Tori Amos @ @ http://www.angelfire.com/tx/shyrrl/tori.html @ @ Tori Trading Page @ @ http://www.angelfire.com/tx/shyrrl/trade.html @ @ Vampire: the Masquerade @ @ http://www.angelfire.com/tx/Lethe/archive.html @ @ @ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:30:31 EST From: Bobdel123@aol.com Subject: what i would choose but thats just me okay this is my two cents. i would want this done at my weeding she would sing song for eric (this is just a given for a weeding) after which she would lean right over to the piano which would be lit with candles and have roses and a shawl over it. she would go into here. in my head. now the way i see it is that the song should be done with strings. there should be a couple of violins and a cello. bagpipes may be a good touch here but optional. the lights in the church would have to be dimmed so that the singers face will be illuminated by the candles alone. another song that would be good for a wedding is all i ask of you from phantom of the opera or wishing you were somehow here again. these would have to be done in the dead middle the dead end or the very begining to really work. my sister had think of me and i really thought i was nice but these would have been better. so just a few suggestions o and all the girls hate her and over it are great too. all love in tori bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 06:45:38 -0500 From: "Lynne Toussaint" Subject: Re: CALS - Delerium's "'til the end of time" A couple years ago I was watching M2 and a Tori video came on, i don't remember what it was, but the backround was bright pink. This was before I was actually into her, so i didn't really pay attention. Anyway, I heard that there was a band that had sampled a drum beat from one of her songs without getting permission from her, so she was filing a law suit. As I said before, I didn't really pay attention, so I'm not sure this is the band. On another note... I was at guitar lessons today and i picked up the local music mag (new england based), Face, and Tori was on the cover. They've got an interview with her and a couple pics. A couple months ago they did a review of FtCGH, kinda trashed her, but still had a nice pic of her. If anyone wants a copy of the article I could send you one (s&h paid by you) since they're free. Peace out and Take care. Faerie hugs Christina ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I want someone that can either put out for me or put me out of my misery. I want someone who can put it all in words and make me go, 'You know, I've never heard it put that way.' " --Ani DiFranco ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - -----Original Message----- From: Freque79@aol.com To: woj@smoe.org ; precious-things@smoe.org Date: Monday, November 16, 1998 5:10 PM Subject: Re: CALS - Delerium's "'til the end of time" > >In a message dated 11/13/98 9:28:39 PM Central Standard Time, woj@smoe.org >writes: > >> "Delerium, a band on the Nettwerk label >> comprised of Bill Leeb and Rhys Fuller (aka Front >> Line Assembly, Synasthaesia, etc.) recently put out >> their latest CD entitled Karma. Track 11, "'til the >> end of time" features the drum loop from Tori's >> "Caught a Lite Sneeze" at certain points. (Some >> have disagreed, saying that it is just a loop that >> sounds familiar to CALS, but there is *no* doubt in >> my mind that that is what it is). > > >Cool, I'm not just hearing things. > >Delerium doesn't have to credit Tori with the loop they used, do they? > >Mairie > >http://members.tripod.com/~raspberryswirl/ > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:11:29 -0500 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: Tori coverage in the UK and Europe At 11:53 PM 11/15/98 +0000, Mike Gray wrote: >I just thought I'd break my extended silence and have another bash at >upsetting those nice people at east/west UK. It's becoming something of a >hobby. And what an easy target it is. :) >As far as I can tell, nothing has been decided about a UK version of the >forthcoming US video of videos? Well, I'd like to sit here and predict >doom - there won't *be* a UK version because Tori has been effectively >abandoned. Or they could do what they did with the "Live in NY" video. That was released in Europe first, and then in Canada several months later. We could see a repeat of that, especially if Tori does release a live CD or box set of bee-sides: you'll see the release of the video when that's released. [snip] >Anyway, what I'm entirely failing to say, is I've got to the point of being >irate at East/West's treatment of Tori during the current run. How on earth >did they expect the album to succeed when they not only failed to release >more than one single (which they falied to promote), but they also managed >to alienate at least 100% of the casual fans on the topic> who would have bought a couple of the singles from the album, >and then perhaps later bought the album. *nod* I'm completely flabbergasted at EastWest's treatment of this album. The UK got the Spark singles, both of which were simply fantastic: the limited edition {although I don't know how "limited" it really is} had good tracks and those postcards, and the regular edition had great bee-sides. All in all, a solid set, and definitely in keeping with the previous single releases we'd seen before. And then... nada. Absolutely nothing. Tori went on tour of Europe, headed over Stateside... and it's like she dropped off the face of the earth, at least according to EastWest. We were taunted with a UK JS single with Merman {which bloody well still hasn't been released, and that track does - -not- deserve to vanquish in MP3 hell}, then told you'd get an RS single. Finally, EastWest just told the UK to bugger off. They did release the RS single in the rest of Europe {and Australia}, but why they completely skipped over the UK on that release simply blows my imagination. >What did the UK do that was so wrong that we didn't deserve more than one >single? What did we do that meant that our favourite artist was allowed to >launch an album which was expected to do well without promotional work on >any *real* scale? *smirk* What, you expect a record company to work? My god! ;) >Granted, Europe got the Raspberry Swirl single - so what? From what I can >gather, it didn't sell particularly well. Guess why? No promotion! (Anyone >noticing a pattern yet?) - and yet in the UK they decided to press the CDs, >send the promos and not publish. There are still Raspberry Swirl remixes >that aren't commercially available - "Naked" and "Sticky Extended >Instrumental" which were found on the UK promos ("Naked" on the CD, >"Instrumental" on the 12") - but yet they aren't even being released on the >US single. Is there a limit on the number of tracks on a US single that >these can't be included? Also what's with the news that "Spark" is to be >featured on the single? Does this mean we're going to lose the "Shady >Feline" mix of Cruel or one of the RS mixes? There is not, to my knowledge, a limit on the number of bee-sides one can include on a single. I'm not even sure that there's a real distinction between "single" and "EP" -- it's not number of tracks. The US Winter single has 5 tracks, it's a single; the US Crucify has 5 tracks, it's an EP. However, it's long been the case that certain songs have only been available on promos. There's an instrumental version of Spark that's only available on promo. There's that Twilight Mix of PtDo that's only available on the RAINN Retrospective promo. And on and on and on. Why these tracks aren't released to the general public {so I don't have to pay through the nose to get these tracks from sellers at eBay and the like} is also beyond me. >The blatant commerciality of the singles chart in the UK (New song backed >with two 'hit' songs either in their studio form or a >live/outtake/remixed/whatever form) is something I hope doesn't spread over >to the US. I believe that many fans find it annoying to have to buy tracks >they already have... As I understand it, singles have a much bigger market in Europe than they do on this side of the pond. Singles are not, by any means, the mainstay of the US market. Most sales are album sales. Part of that is marketing. Atlantic makes more money on the album than they do the single. But also look at how often a single is released to radio and you have a long wait until it's released to the public as a single. If I were just hearing JS for the first time on the radio in the US and really wanted that song, I would either buy the album immediately or wait a few weeks until the single was released. For that matter, we have to keep on waiting and waiting for singles to be released. Atlantic has simply not done a good job this time around on keeping to their release dates. Things keep on getting pushed back and pushed back. I, for one, am utterly sick of it. >The "choirgirl era" has been the era in my opinion that the record companies >on both sides of the Atlantic finally lost it. Tori hasn't lost it, she >still does things just as well as she always did, if not better, but the >record company have failed to grasp a few simple facts. >Firstly - Tori fans are massively loyal. Tori has an intensely rabid fanbase. >Secondly - Tori fans often attend *more* than one concert. There aren't in >fact as many fans as they might think, they're often the same people >attending multiple concerts. I firmly believe this is what the 'arena' >premise was based on - that if they put her in a big venue, she'll sell it >out because she can sell out the small concerts. I can't speak for Europe, but I don't know how true that really is for the US. There are a good number of people who do travel to multiple shows, yes, but I'd be willing to say that the number of those people is relatively small. She's doing a very good job of selling tickets at these large venues -- they can't all be people attending multiple shows. I know that at the shows I've been to, very very few of the people who were there had attended multiple shows -- even if there was more than one show in the same city. There is a rather large group of people who attend multiple shows, but I don't think they account for that much of ticket sales. {With the possible exception of "special" concerts: the first of the tour, first of the US tour, birthday show, last of the tour.} >Thirdly - If you release it, we will buy. If you don't release it, we can't. I think you've disprove this statement yourself. Yes, Tori has a core fanbase that'll snap up anything. However, that core fanbase isn't really significant in the grand scheme of things. If the core fanbase were that big and were willing to buy anything with her name on it, sales of the European/Australian RS would've been better, correct? >Fourthly - Tori *is* a minority interest and isn't likely to get any more >mainstream. She lost most of her mainstream audience with Pele IMHO - Pink >let a lot of people into Tori's world, and then Pele locked them back out >because they either didn't 'get' it, or didn't persevere with the album. >Atlantic wanted a mainstream hit album, they wanted to push Tori into a >different arena. As far as I can see, it hasn't worked. I don't know that I agree with this statement. Tori obviously has the ability to sell both albums and concert tickets. Her US tour is apparently doing pretty well -- I don't know that it's selling out all of these huge arenas, but they're not 3/4s empty either. Atlantic hasn't really been doing that bad of a job on this side of the pond promoting her: we've had two singles thus far, plus another single and a video coming out this month. I've seen lots of promotional material in stores, both in the US and Canada, ranging from promo flats to bin dividers to all sorts of other stuff. Whether or not they wanted a "mainstream hit album" is something I really can't address. If they wanted it, IMHO they picked the best possible singles from this album to reach that goal. JS is, IMHO, very accessible to anyone who listens to it. {Hell, my mom even likes it, and says that it makes her remember when JFK was shot.} RS and Cruel, especially with remixes as bee-sides, will appeal to the techno crowd again {like the PW and Voodoo remixes}. >So in all, we've lost "Merman" (the promised UK B-Side to Jackie's Strength) >and probably other tracks that were recorded on the Monday before the UK >tour began in order to pad out the then forthcoming UK JS singles. I have to say that I -really- don't understand why Merman hasn't been released yet. There is simply no reason for it. I think that, after the RS/Cruel US single, there will be no further single releases from ftch -- meaning that we won't see Merman in a legitimate format for at least a year [2]. I think that the absolute earliest we'll see it is the rumored bee-side compilation, or -perhaps- as a live track on the live CD that may or may not happen. Tori's been saying that she'd like to do a live album for awhile. I dunno if it'll happen this time, either. Ditto for the bee-sides collection. I've already made up my personal wishlist for each item {the live CD should be a four disc set, one disc of material from each tour; the bee-sides collection should be a box set that includes Merman, When I Was Dreaming, Ring My Bell, Sarah Cynthia Sylvia Stout, and that duet with Michael Stipe...}, but who knows if they'll actually be released. We've heard it before, and I'm not holding my breath that Atlantic and/or EastWest will get their collective head out of their collective ass and realize that there is a market for these items. Of course, there is a significant question of whether or not there actually - -is- a market for these items. Live albums rarely sell as well as studio albums. Even artists with a large fanbase, such as the Indigo Girls, don't sell that many copies of their live material. Live CDs and bee-sides compilations don't really appeal to the "casual fan", they appeal to the rabid Tori completist -- and, regardless of the freaks we see on the various online Tori forums ;) , the casual fan makes up more of the market than the freakish completist. [snip] >What I'm trying to say is that Tori needs a transfer to a label with more >vision and a degree of determination to make an artist succeed. They've done >*far* more promotion for Jewel's "Spirit" album in the UK press than they >did for "Choirgirl" and compared to Tori, Jewel is *entirely* unknown in the >UK. I dunno if that'll happen. First, I don't think anyone here has any idea of what Tori's contract with Atlantic and/or EastWest looks like. Secondly, I don't think Tori's going to be leaving Atlantic anytime soon. Why wouldn't Tori leave Atlantic? The reason's twofold: 1) YKTR. We all know Tori is dead set against this being re-released. I believe that Atlantic, however, would re-release this in a heartbeat if Tori were to leave them. While it obviously won't be a big blockbuster seller for them, I think it'd at least get them back the money they put into a new print run. It'd have about the same kind of market as a bee-sides or live album. 2) Igloo Records. Okay, Tori hasn't done much with them {besides the release of that album by Pet}. But it's still a tie to Atlantic, and a pretty good one at that. *shrug* I dunno. I personally believe that the folks who make these sales decisions at Atlantic and EastWest are simply morons. There's no reason {beyond my hypothesis in footnote [1]} that the Live in NY video hasn't been released in the US. There's no reason that Atlantic pulled that absolute BS with the US Spark singles -- why the hell bother releasing two bloody well nearly identical CDs plus a shitty little cassingle? So how about a lynching party? ;) /nad [1] Before anyone attempts to correct me on this... It is AVAILABLE in the States, but it has not been RELEASED in the States. The video you find in the store or online is the import from Canada. Canada uses the same video standard as the US does {Europe has another one called PAL, ours is NTSC}, so that's why we can get it. I'm guessing that the video hasn't been released in the States because Lifetime Television owns the rights to it. I don't know that for a fact, that's my guess, don't go taking that as gospel. [2] Speaking of Merman... for those Mac users who couldn't download Merman, did you ever get your alternate gift from Atlantic/Tower? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:12:28 -0500 From: desmond in a tutu Subject: Re: Tori coverage in the UK and Europe also sprach Mike Gray: >I just thought I'd break my extended silence and have another bash at >upsetting those nice people at east/west UK. It's becoming something of a >hobby. *grin* >There are still Raspberry Swirl remixes >that aren't commercially available - "Naked" and "Sticky Extended >Instrumental" which were found on the UK promos ("Naked" on the CD, >"Instrumental" on the 12") - but yet they aren't even being released on the >US single. Is there a limit on the number of tracks on a US single that >these can't be included? not as far as i know. my favorite example of goofy us singles was nine inch nails' "head like a hole" single which "featured" around 10 remixes of that song, totalling some 60 minutes of music! all for the price of a cd single which, at the time, was something like $4. (now, a regular -- or maxi -- single in a slimline or regular jewel box will be something like $5-6 while the cheapo ones in a cardboard sleeve or those annoying soft plastic trays in the cardboard box -- ala "jackie's strength" -- will be $2-3 and usually have less tracks.) >Also what's with the news that "Spark" is to be >featured on the single? Does this mean we're going to lose the "Shady >Feline" mix of Cruel or one of the RS mixes? i don't think so. all the news points to these tracks on the single: * Raspberry Swirl- Lip Gloss Version * Cruel - Shady Feline Mix * Ambient Raspberry Swirl - Scarlet Spectrum Feels * Spark - Mainline Cherry Ambient >The blatant commerciality of the singles chart in the UK (New song backed >with two 'hit' songs either in their studio form or a >live/outtake/remixed/whatever form) is something I hope doesn't spread over >to the US. I believe that many fans find it annoying to have to buy tracks >they already have... sarah mclachlan fans can sympathize -- how many copies of "i will remember you" does one need to own? i think sarah's single situation is much worse than tori's (though their situations may not be comparable since she's still not a mainstream force in the uk while she's certainly one here in north america). i stopped buying sarah;s singles when it became apparent that her creative well for b-sides dried up -- early on, she managed to put out some nice covers ("solsbury hill"), some really inventive remixes and some okay ones. these days, it's all dance remixes (which do not interest me) and that goddamn song from "the brothers mcmullen" soundtrack. >If there is to be a 2*CD live set will E/W even bother releasing that? >Because if they really don't believe people are going to buy her singles, >will they believe that such an album is economically viable? my impression and understanding (which, admittedly, is biased by my buying habits) is that the us music market is not very singles-oriented at all, at least in the stores. singles or, rather, "emphasis tracks", are important for radio and video exposure, but they seem designed to entice the consumer to buy an album, not buy a single. the only people who seem to buy singles here are nutty fans and those with little disposable cash. i realize that the singles market in the uk is quite different, but do you really think that the lack of singles interest will be the straw that breaks the camel's back when it comes to the live album? east/west may have demonstrated a stupendous level of cluelessness, but i can't imagine that they would neglect to release the live album -- people may have opted not to buy the singles, but they did spring for the album, no? woj ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V3 #399 *************************************