From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V3 #15 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Tuesday, January 13 1998 Volume 03 : Number 015 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: pj harvey [Richard Holmes ] Re: Least Favorite Tori Song ["Subashini" ] Re: hallucinogens [Tasha325 ] Re: yearbook quote and other nifty stuff - Language... [Quinn024 ] Re: pj harvey [Ken Tough ] Re: Question about one of the songs on the GE score [Ken Tough ] Re: pj harvey [MaidenShru ] Re: yearbook quote and other nifty stuff ["Saige the Faerie Princess" ] Re: On Tori's popularity... ["Bec" ] Re: Thoughts . . . maybe it should be posted to RDT(RN)?? ["Bec" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:12:29 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Holmes Subject: Re: pj harvey On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, clockwork_lemon@juno.com (Natalie T Ballard) wrote: > On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:02:08 EST Boy4Pele79 writes: > >YES YES I love PJ Harvey, I don't think it's a long shot. She seems > >to have > >quite a few fans. > > Well, seems that I was wrong about PJ not having many fans!!! Myself, I > have never met a fellow PJ fan, so that is kind of what I was going on. > (Of course, I *do* live in a part of Florida where the prevailing idea is > that Garth Brooks is fine music.) > Natalie Yup, don't *meet* very many PJ fans, though I did go to a cool coffee shop and a woman there was wearing a PJ Harvey shirt -- I mentioned it to her, and the other guy working there was like, "who's that?" and "I thought it was a guy"... I was on a pj list about 5 years ago for a while - I really like her stuff. Dress, Sheela-Na-Gig, Me-jane, long snake moan... yup. - -Richard. @ \@/ Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) @ | @ \|/ "O dark expansive sea of night, @ | Tapestry of stars and solitude, @ , , | , , Crashing waves of chaos, Deep void of becoming, @ ' ' ' ' ' Radiant blackness, all-enfolding, @ Constant well of creation, @ Bestow you dark gifts and silver sparks @ On your parched and thirsty child. @ @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra / Laura Love @ Susan McKeown \ Sarah McLachlan / Libana \ Danielle Dax \ Dog Faced Hermans @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush \ Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Ingrid Karklins \ Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:07:08 +0800 From: "Subashini" Subject: Re: Least Favorite Tori Song Hi, I'm sort of new to this list. Well not "new" new, but relatively new. :) I've been lurking for awhile. Just to introduce myself, I'm a 17 year old female from Malaysia, and probably the only Malaysian to know of Tori's existence. :) Anyway, my least fav Tori song is probably Marianne, from BfP. I don't hate it exactly, but it's always the song I feel like skipping, and it's probably because I can get to CALS faster. :) BTW, Tear in Your Hand is one of my fav songs from LE. Love it sooooo much. Subash ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:28:03 EST From: Tasha325 Subject: Re: hallucinogens yes yes. these are the "wonderful" things that are commonly referred to as LSD (acid), PCP, peyote...and many others. sometimes even pot is classified as a hallucinogen. as already stated they make you actually see thing differently, or even things that aren't there. they can make you think in ways you haven't previously. and you can have audio hallucinations, where you may hear things that "aren't" there, or things may just appear louder. these can really screw you up... i'd better stop with that or i will talk your eyes off. :) so, for now, that is all i have to say about that. talking the talk, but not walking the walk, anistasha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:49:42 EST From: Quinn024 Subject: Re: yearbook quote and other nifty stuff - Language... In a message dated 98-01-12 23:30:12 EST, you write: << My fav Tori quote would have to be this one: "I don't know about politics, but I know about thinking for yourself. A lot of people stand in different camps right now. One of the camps is, We are fucked, and we have no choice. We're fucked. I don't agree with that. I think we're choosing to be fucked, which is different. This ain't Rwanda. Helloooooo. Let's not have delusions of grandeur here. Know what I'm saying?" -Tori Amos Claiborne >> Hey- This little quote reminded me of something... Okay, I have never met Tori in person, let's start there. Second little fact: I have heard a number of different Tori interviews. Now my qualm here is I have never outside of her music heard her use "foul language" (note the quotation marks, it's not foul to me but you know what I mean), that I can think of. I have been a subscriber to the Tori Quote of the Day for a long, long time and I have, of course read a ton of little quotes like this one. And it seems to me that in a good deal of them there are these "foul words". I just thought it was funny that I don't think I have ever heard them come flying from her mouth but I read them from her at least once or twice a day. I don't think this is much of a question, just more of a thought. Anybody else ever notice this?? Maybe it's just too darn late at night for this... Peace, NeilQuinn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:44:57 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: Lou Reed/Quote/LeastFave/Pig Erin asked: > I have a question and some replies to other stuff. First, has Tori ever > cited Lou Reed and/or Velvet Underground as an influence? I don't recall having ever heard that, no. They weren't really her style, so I'm sure it's possible but I kind of doubt it. > And they also have a song called "I'll Be Your Mirror" and in the YKTR > notes she thanks Eric for mirrors...thoughts, anyone? Yeah, I think it can be a mistake and lead one down the proverbial garden path to take such things too literally. :-) > ...oh yeah, on the pig issue (note my address!) I heard Tori got a pig > named Bean but haven't heard anything else about him or if he's the BfP > pig. Umm, well, on February 9, 1996, Tori was on a radio show from the House of Blues with L.A. radio personalities Kevin and Bean, and she brought a piglet with her and handed it to Bean when she came out. That's certainly the source of your confusion. :-) > Anyone? Richard? :) That should be the mandatory signature on this > list. I am personally holding Beth W. responsible for all of that kind of talk! You're not off the hook yet, Beth! Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 03:41:54 -0800 From: ButterFliKip Subject: Re: yearbook quote and other nifty stuff - Language... >Hey- > This little quote reminded me of something... > Okay, I have never met Tori in person, let's start there. Second little >fact: I have heard a number of different Tori interviews. Now my qualm here >is I have never outside of her music heard her use "foul language" (note the >quotation marks, it's not foul to me but you know what I mean), that I can >think of. I have been a subscriber to the Tori Quote of the Day for a long, >long time and I have, of course read a ton of little quotes like this one. >And it seems to me that in a good deal of them there are these "foul words". >I just thought it was funny that I don't think I have ever heard them come >flying from her mouth but I read them from her at least once or twice a day. >I don't think this is much of a question, just more of a thought. Anybody >else ever notice this?? Maybe it's just too darn late at night for this... > Peace, > NeilQuinn I was at a concert last summer and she was telling us a stoy and she used one or two 'vulgarities' :) It was cute, everyone smiled and giggled ciao kip* - -- =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* i was upset the other day, I was like "oh dear god!!! why does life have to amount to this??!!" -Jenifa Carter, on our obsessive relationship with each other ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:39:17 -0500 (EST) From: cm2248@cnsvax.albany.edu Subject: Asherah, Muhammad, etc. (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:34:29 -0500 (EST) From: cm2248@cnsvax.albany.edu To: carolyn Subject: Asherah, Muhammad, etc. (fwd) a friend of mine sent this to me a while ago, i don't know where it originally came from. i do apologize for it is very long, but it is incredibly interesting (at least i thought so) and extremely informative. >About the word "ashre" which is in the published lyrics for Muhammad My >Friend, Lanna/gemenai said-- > >> I found this on the Tori Lexicon section of a web page called Dew Drop >> Inn ( http://www.shef.ac.uk/students/el/ela95pgb/lexicon.html ) >> ashre- Hebrew for "we are one" > >I'm afraid this misinformation has been kicking around for a while, and >seems to be well-ensconced in some areas of Online Toriville. I've been >trying for a while to find the time to get something definitive on this >together, but the demands of life rear up and continue preventing that >from happening. I think it's time to get *something* out about this >though, so here we go. > >First of all, according to one Hebrew dictionary, the word ashre actually >means "blessed, happy, praiseworthy." The word is used in some religious >Hebrew songs, even in their titles. There's more to be said about that, >but that's the short of it. > >Okay. That said, I am convinced that the word ashre as printed in the >lyrics of the Boys for Pele booklet and the sheet music for Muhammad My >Friend is a typo, and that the word Tori really means is Asherah. There >have been some rather glaring typos in Tori's album booklets in the past, >including the misspellings of the names of two of her best friends in the >LE booklet (Rantz and Beenie are misspelled as Ranz and Beene), and I >happen to know her to be a--well, let's just say that Tori won't be >winning any spelling contests anytime soon. :-) > >But that's okay. I find it charming in its own way, and she has more >important things with which to concern herself. It certainly doesn't make >it terrible easy to get to the bottom of things such as this kind of >question, though. > >Below are a few quick references from the web for Asherah. Most are merely >small excerpts from the web pages referenced, so I suggest you visit the >URLs in question for a little more context. It fascinates me that the >Asherah concept even overlaps somewhat with the topic of female >circumcision, which Tori touches on elsewhere. As much as Tori came to >know from her family about the Bible and religion in general, she seems to >have further delved into it on her own to the extent that for one to >really understand most of these kinds of references, one would nearly >require some sort of a degree in theology, or at least in the history of >world religions. > >Although little more than yet another tangential road down which to travel >while piecing together some of this Tori Amos puzzle, it seems to be a >fascinating one, and I'm looking forward to taking a little excursion down >it as soon as I get a chance. At this rate, I suspect that might be at >least three or four years from now. :-) > >In the meantime, if anyone else has something to add in all of this, I'm >sure folks here would be interested in hearing it. I know *I* would, so >please share. If someone thinks I'm all wet about this, let us know what >the real deal is as *you* see it. > >[Personal to those I owe private mail--is it any wonder? And to Eric in >Germany: you're welcome, and thanks for the kind words.] > >Be seeing you, > >Richard Handal, H.G. > ___________________________________________________________________ > >http://matu1.math.auckland.ac.nz/~king/Preprints/book/torah/tor.html > > Fulfilling the Torah of Moses in the Shekhinah and the Asherah > >[...] > > The path of the seed, the male principle of the godhead is preserved > in its ancient form - El the masculine progenitor of the Elohim of > Abraham, who coupled with the ancient moon god Yaho is manifested in > the dyad of the Kabbalah, alongside the Shekinah - the 'Blessing of > the Deep' to whom Miriam gave a song of thanks after the crossing of > the waters, and the Asherah - the 'Blessing of the Breasts and Womb' > the Garden of Israel. The Path of the Seed is the very Elohim in its > quantum-mechanical form. > > Healing the angsts of Yahweh > > The episode of Jesus is but a shadow of the second angst of Yahweh - > the killing of the Asherah of fertility, whom Hilkiah and the > Yahweh-only movement desecrated and destroyed in their ignorance and > chauvinism in the Destruction of the Sanctuaries. > >[...] > > The Shechinah is defined, in traditional Jewish writings, as the > "female aspect of God" or the "presence" of the infinite God in the > world. She is introduced in the early rabbinical commentaries as the > "immanence" or "indwelling" of the living God, whose role as the > animating life force of the earth is to balance the transcendent > deity. > > She may be distinguished from the 'Canaanite' Mother Goddess Asherah > who the ancient Hebrews honored until about 800 B.C.E. when King > Josiah removed the Asherah from the Jerusalem temple and destroyed the > outlying shrines. > >[...] > > The Four Blessings of Israel and Palestine (Genesis 49) > > The Blessing the God thy Father: The path of Yahweh is clearly Path of > the Seed. He truly is the god of history. He is here to stay, jealous > soul though he may be in his incompleteness. > > The Blessing of Heaven Above: Do not forget Thoth-Yaho the God of > Moses. He is the lunar wisdom aspect of the Godhead, from whom the > depth of understanding and the logos of the Jewish tradition was > inherited, jealously diminished by Yahweh and lost by the waters of > Qadesh. He is the ancient aspect of the Elohim who is prepared to > journey to the ends of the earth to rescue the Goddess of Fertility, > so that peace and abundance will become eternal, so does he love the > Asherah, and so shall he avenge the fate of Moses. > > The Blessing of the Deep: The Shekinah - 'the Indwelling' - is the > goddess of the future - the ethereal, aniconic feminine aspect of the > Elohim. She is the manifestation of deity on Earth, as manifested in > the burning bush and all the successive visionary manifestations of > deity through the apocalyptic visions of the angels. Respect her ways > and learn her synchronous nature. She will always surprise you. She is > the spiritual manifestation of the Asherah - the tree of immortal > fertility. And in her hand she holds the key to the Garden - immortal > wisdom. Not just for the 'chosen people' who gave her name, but for > the whole human race. > > The Blessing of the Breasts and Womb: It is to the Asherah to whom we > finally turn in the fulfillment of the Garden of Israel. Without the > Asherah, the Land of Israel remains fragmented, just as the king who > has not consummated his sacred marriage to the land cannot govern. The > Palestinian problem is Canaan revisited. The notion that the Asherah > is merely a Canaanite Goddess is a supreme form of cultural and gender > prejudice. She is as Jewish as Yahweh. Through the Asherah, unity > among the people of Israel and Palestine can be naturally achieved > because the Asherah is the ancient ummah. > > These male and female blessings are complementary manifestations of > the One Elohim - the Tao. > >[...] > > * It is time to open again to the Shekinah, that manifestation of > the burning bush, the Ark of the Covenant itself, and all that > will manifest the holy of holies in this physical life, for in her > you will find the true faith and the healing of humankind. > * It is time to recognise the Asherah and the ancient line of the > Jewish matriarch from time immemorial. The Queen of the Land is > the key to the future fate of the Israeli nation. In her and > through her you will find your eternal resting place in peace - > the Asherah of the Land of Israel. > * It is time to recognise the source of the tradition of Moses in > the God of Wisdom and avenge his death on Mt. Nabo. > * It is time to come to terms with the blood sacrifice of > circumcision and stay the mutilation in the protection of > womankind from like mutilation. > > Worship in your own tradition, for it is the ecosystemic way to know > the Elohim, but worship in acknowledgment of the Shekinah and of the > spiritual equality of the matriarch and the Asherah that resides in > every Jewish woman, for in her the men of Yahweh will find the > complement of your own seed line. >___________________________________________________________________ > >http://matu1.math.auckland.ac.nz/~king/Preprints/book/hieros/hieros.html > > The Holy Harlot was also a Virgin because she remained unmarried. > Ishtar-Asherah-Mari-Anath was both the Great Whore and the Great > Virgin Mother (Walker 822). Mary Magalen was the penitent Holy Whore > and Mary Mother of James and Joses and Jesus was the Virgin. Ishtar > the Great Whore of Babylon announced "A prostitute compassionate am I" > (Walker 820). > >[BTW, this is a wonderful website pertaining to history of women, >goddesses, patriarchies, matriarchies, and to women's roles in history and >religion. --Richard] > ___________________________________________________________________ > >http://www.jmas.co.jp/FAQs/mythology/canaanite-faq > >Athirat (Asherah, Ashtartian - 'the Lady of the Sea', Elat - 'the >goddess') - Goddess of the Sea and mother of the gods. She is El's loving >consort and is protective of her seventy children who may also be known as >the gracious gods, to whom she is both mother and nursemaid. Her sons, >unlike Baal initially, all have godly courts. She frequents the ocean >shore. In the Syrian city of Qatra, she was considered Baal-Hadad's >consort. > While washing clothing with a female companion by the sea, she is >spied by El, who roasts a bird and invites the two to choose between being >his daughters or his wives. They choose to become his wives and in due >course give birth to the gracious gods, the cleavers of the sea, including >Shachar and Shalim. The new family builds a sanctuary in the desert and >lives there for eight years. > Baal and Anat hope to use her to influence El on the issue of >Baal's palace. Initially suspicious and fearful of them on behalf of her >children, but she warms up when she see that they have brought gifts. She >and Anat successfully intercede with El on Baal's behalf for permission >for Baal to build a more suitable court. > When Baal is found dead, she advocates her son Athtar be made >king. Her sons, the "'pounders' of the sea", apparently colluded with Mot >and were smited by Baal with sword and mace upon his return. > Baal-Hadad's creatures devour her handmaidens, so she sends them >to El. El tells them to go into the wilderness and there birth horned >buffalo, which will distract Baal-Hadad. > She and Anat serve as nursemaids for Keret's son Yassib, but >reminds Keret of his pledge of wealth for Huray, perhaps causing his >decline in health because of its lack of fulfillment. > ___________________________________________________________________ > >[This one's pretty interesting. You can see a clay sculpture of Asherah, >and even order one for your mantle. --Richard] > >http://jblstatue.com/pages/asherah.html > > pictures/t_asherah.jpg Get the large version of the image of Asherah. > (26 Kbytes) > > Asherah (5 inch #ASH; $20) - The original bread of life. Hebrew and > Canaanite women molded loaves of this figure which were blessed and > ritually eaten, the precursor of the communion wafer. Her idols were > found under every green tree, were carved from living trees, or > erected as poles or pillars beside roadside altars. Crude clay images > of her as tree of life later evolved into the more refined Syrian > Artemis. Ancient sexual rites (dismissed to this day by male scholars > as cult prostitution) associated with worship of Asherah insured that > matrilineal descent patterns, with their partnership rather than > dominator values, would continue. Hebrew priestly iconoclasts finally > uprooted Asherah, supplanting matrifocal culture with patriarchy. Our > Judeo-Christian inheritance of this law of the Levites, passed on by > the Roman Empire, is one source of present-day sex inequality. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:36:37 +0000 From: Ken Tough Subject: Re: In my head. "D. Vidavski" wrote: >Does anyone know of a place where I can get the UK pressing of >"Crucify" and how much it should cost? Check out "Record Collector" magazine. I recommend Mercury records, up your end of the country. The guy is nice, and very helpful. You should be able to get a brand new copy of the picture disc (YZ618CD) for around 25 pounds, though they aren't always available. - -- Ken Tough "Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." ken@objectech.co.uk Cornwall, United Kingdom -- Patti Smith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:29:40 +0000 From: Ken Tough Subject: Re: pj harvey Richard Holmes wrote: >Yup, don't *meet* very many PJ fans Speaking of PJ Harvey, she and Tori seem to know each other, but I'm not sure whether they hang out at all. Harvey lives in Dorset, not all that far from where Tori has been recording in Cornwall... I wonder if they got together at all. Any ideas anyone? - -- Ken Tough ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:26:07 +0000 From: Ken Tough Subject: Re: Question about one of the songs on the GE score Laura wrote: >>I am basing this guess on my knowledge of French. "Perdre" is the French >>verb for "to lose", and that sounds very similar to Perduto. Paradiso is >>obvious, so my guess is that the phrase means "paradise lost". It's >>probably Italian or Spanish or Portuguese. >It's Italian and you are right it means Paradise Lost :-) Italian and >spanish sometimes are pretty similar, like in this particular case >="paraiso perdido" (Spanish), "paradiso perduto" (Italian) :-) Unclear whether you know it or not, but _Paradise Lost_ is the name of a religious epic written by John Milton (1667). Can't say as I know much about it. - -- Ken Tough ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 05:20:11 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: Asherah, Muhammad, etc. (fwd) Carolyn posted: > a friend of mine sent this to me a while ago, i don't know where it > originally came from. I posted it to this very list on August 13, 1997. My signature is still in the body of the message. > i do apologize for it is very long, but it is incredibly interesting (at > least i thought so) and extremely informative. Thank you. :-) Gosh, but I do try with a lot of effort. I spent quite a number of hours on that one. I still may have been off-base, anyway. And I also want to note that if you speak only Urdu and know absolutely nothing about what Tori is singing on a conscious level, the *feeling* can still go directly in if allowed to do so. And that's really the most important thing about her music, as far as I'm concerned. It would be a big tragedy if concentrating on analysis led folks to miss out on the beauty and purity of the emotional expression. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 05:41:13 EST From: MaidenShru Subject: Re: Tori Fans in VA im from woodbridge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 05:46:38 EST From: MaidenShru Subject: Re: pj harvey i've heard her an bjork do their little phone converstations and Pj also but bjork more than Pj...i heard that from bjork...some interview....they kinda began the friends thing right after the Lips Hips Tits Power thing....and again seeing as how everyone kind of blew it off before...does anyone know the date and location that this was? Kedren ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:40:22 EST From: "Saige the Faerie Princess" Subject: Re: yearbook quote and other nifty stuff Tori805 wrote: >My fave lyric (this week, anyway!) I think is from "Mr. Zebra" it's "She got >a little fund to fight for Monneypenny's rights" >-Sue > very good quote, Sue! i like it... my favorite, this week, would have to be... "Why did she crawl down in that old, deep ravine?" from Marriane. Love, Stacie "Anyone who doesn't believe in faeries is not worth talking to." -- Tori Amos ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:44:37 -0800 From: clockwork_lemon@juno.com (Natalie T Ballard) Subject: Re: Lou Reed/Quote/LeastFave/Pig I don't know about Velvet Underground being a Tori influence, but I WILL say that VU is one of my all time favorite bands, and I'm glad to see that someone else has actually heard of them!!! I really don't like "Springtime of his Voodoo" either.....Tori has a beautiful voice, but she also has the power to make it completely annoying, and "SOHV" is one of those cases in which she does so. Natalie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:49:16 +1100 From: "Bec" Subject: Paradiso Perduto Paradiso Perduto is Latin surely. It means Paradise Lost. Love Bec - ---------- From: Laura To: precious-things@smoe.org Subject: Re: Question about one of the songs on the GE score Date: Tuesday, 13 January 1998 10:33 At 11:06 PM 9/01/98 -0800, Natalie wrote: >I am basing this guess on my knowledge of French. "Perdre" is the French >verb for "to lose", and that sounds very similar to Perduto. Paradiso is >obvious, so my guess is that the phrase means "paradise lost". It's >probably Italian or Spanish or Portuguese. >Natalie It's Italian and you are right it means Paradise Lost :-) Italian and spanish sometimes are pretty similar, like in this particular case ="paraiso perdido" (Spanish), "paradiso perduto" (Italian) :-) bacchi :) laura _________________________________________________________________ 'How do you know I'm not having a Margarita with Jesus tonight at 10 o'clock?' - Tori Amos Margaritas with the Goddess - Margaritas con la Diosa http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/lot/3373/ _________________________________________________________________ When the spanish conquerors came, they had a bible and the native american had land. They tought the natives how to pray with their eyes closed, and when the natives opened their eyes again, they had a bible and the conquerors had the land. ¿? :-\ - ---------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:28:34 +1100 From: "Bec" Subject: Re: On Tori's popularity... Jennifer Cypres said: > You know, I mention Tori from time to time among friends I'm trying > to get closer to... but when I ask what they think of her, intelligent > people will kind of look at me in a funny way, and say... "Well, she's got a great body and she's gorgeous and all, but she's weird. I can't get into her."... [or] "I've heard of her, but... [strange look] I don't really .... [struggling for words] like her that much." And that usually gets a total beat of silence from me, and I find myself changing the subject so that I don't wind up hating these people. Just one of my many frustrations I thought I'd share! Same. I have to say, I just don't get it sometimes. You know the feeling. You just what to grab all those people who you think you know well, who are intelligent and deep and all that but who still say "Oh, Tori Amos, she's the one that screeches" or "Oh, I like her but she's so messed up" or whatever. You want to shake them, and tie them to a CD player with LE on repeat untill they see reason. Of course i know that people have the right to their opinion and that not everything suits everybody etc. But what I can't understand is the balantent hostilility can pop up when Tori is mentioned. I mean I'm not that into David Bowie but I don't make fun of his singing or his choice of hair colour to my friends who like him. Still it took me a while to come round to Tori. I think she needs a bit of concentrated listening in a quiet environment (such as when trying to write essays ;-) ) She can't be understood and appreciated when hearing snatches of her on a friends CD player or whatever. So i figure, given the right encouragement my friends will come 'round. Maybe the tying them to the CD player was a good idea after all ;-). Violet can tell me where to get the masking tape. Love Bec ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:02:14 +1100 From: "Bec" Subject: Re: Thoughts . . . maybe it should be posted to RDT(RN)?? - ---------- hmm...a lot of her songs grew on me after a few listens and there are also >some that i don't feel very strongly about. the only two that i did not like >period were "Blue Skies" and the live (merry widow) version of "Professional >Widow". the original PW sounded kind of neat with the cow sound and the >harpischord, but listening to it slowly like that--torture! i'm glad someone >else brought this up; i feel kind of guilty for not liking a Tori song, as >crazy as that sounds. then again, she's not out to please everyone all the >time, so i guess it's okay. :-) I feel so guilty when I don't like a song too!! :) SmurfCrazy said: >2. this is for everyone out there: >does anyone have a favorite tori quote/lyric? you see, we all know that tori >can take the most commonplace things/ideas and convert them into something >amazing. i mean, she says the most incredible things sometimes, whether it be >in interview or song. ok, getting to my point now, blah blah blah........ i >need to submit my quote tomorrow for my yearbook, and i am trying to find the >most perfect quote. preferably tori, but if its something really nifty and >its completely un-tori, its ok too........ so, any suggestions? thanks alot, >you guys rule! My Tori quote would have to be, "thought she deserved no less than she'd give" from "Yes Anastasia" . . . that line says to me, "The more you give the more you'll get in return, if you are lacking, it's your own fault for not giving." Like they say, "It's better to give than to receive." Just my thoughts on it. Jennifer Cypres writes: >Do we know which chains will be carrying it? Hooray!!! I was thinking "SunCoast" would probably have it and if not, you could definatly order it from there. Hastings will probably get it. MusicLand/Sam Goody might also. I'm planning on checking them all though. I'm so excited for this tape!! I recorded the Lifetime showing of it, and I cried through the entire thing. My mom came down and asked me if there was something I wasn't telling her, like maybe I had been raped or something. I felt bad, but I couldn't stop crying, it was so beautiful. I don't know, live Tori, god there is nothing like it in the world. I love it. On the, people don't like Tori because . . . I have been bragging about Tori to everyone, wandering around with a strange look in my eyes singing those lyrics that touch us so deeply . . . I am the main spokesperson for Tori in the Idaho Falls area. :) I often like to sit down and tell people her life stori, just because. :) Or, I'll play a game with myself, I'll try to name the songs of the albums in order. I've been doing that since 9th grade. :) Or, I'll try to list all the bootlegs I own, or write down an essay on Tori or her music, or I'll try to decipher the lyrics to a song that I have in my head. But, everyone I ask about Tori, our dialog goes something like this: "You like Tori?" "Tori Spelling?" "No, Tori Amos." "Whose he?" They think she's a boy. And if they have heard of her, they think she's a lesbian. *sigh* If only the world could be as enlightened as us. >You know, I mention Tori from time to time among friends I'm trying >to get closer to, and you know, when I ask them if they know of her, >they usually do, but when I ask what they think of her, intelligent >people will kind of look at me in a funny way, and say (this would be >coming from my friend Joe), "Well, she's got a great body and she's >gorgeous and all, but she's weird. I can't get into her." And women >might comment, "I've heard of her, but... [strange look] I don't >really ... [struggling for words] like her that much." And that >usually gets a total beat of silence from me, and I find myself >changing the subject so that I don't wind up hating these people. >Just one of my many frustrations I thought I'd share! > >- -Jen >I totally know what you mean, Jen. I've mentioned Tori to a couple of my >friends, and almost all think it's wierd I listen to her. My best >friend, Ben thinks she's for 12-year-old little girls( this "mature" guy >dragged me to go see "Starship Troopers with him...."), another guy >thinks I'm gay for listening to it and my third friend borrowed my >Little Earthquakes and he said something like " Why do you like this >whining bitch?" And then he goes and buys some truly pathetic cd like >Mariah Carey's latest yelping or something. Anyway... ALL HAIL THE MARIAH HATER!! Kip said on this subject: >I understand completely.. Luckily I've found some friends who also love >Tori, but it seems like everyone else is like 'oh, that lesbian that >sings about cornflakes?' or like you had said.. the whole 'she's hot, >but shes too weird' thing. And everyone thinks she's on drugs or >something... I think people have a hard time accepting things because >maybe theres a part of them that connects with it, and they just aren't >ready to come to face that. They don't know what they're missing :) >ciao >Kip* I agree with you babe, they don't know what their missing. The reason I started my Emotional Scars page (the one I mentioned earlier) is because, if it wasn't for me wanting to see a Tori concert, I would have most likely suceeded in killing myself. I think she's the reason I'm still around. My mom, when she used to try to help me want to live, would tell me, "You won't be around to hear another Tori song." . . . and the way I interprited that was, "Your life is so pathetic that the only reason your own mother can think of for you to stick around is because you'll never hear a song by someone who doesn't even know you exsist." . . . That should give you an idea on how I feel about Tori. :) For a long time, I had a little saying, "I love her more than myself." Stacie, I LOVE your little quote!! It's so cute. The little: "ewe isn't fat, ewe is fluffy." I think it's so sweet, it brings a cute picture to one's mind. :) Well, I thought I had one more thing to say, I can't think of it now though. See y'all about the 'net . . . Amy §§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§ "Thought she "...this is "he's got deserved no sex without high heels on..." less than touching..." -- Mansun she'd give..." -- Björk -- Tori Amos §§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§ "when you gonna make up your mind, when you gonna love you as much as I do when you gonna make up your mind cause things are gonna change so fast . . ." -- Tori Amos §§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§ These are lyrics to some of my favourite artists. If you'd like to find out more about me and my music, you can at my Tori homepage: http://www.angelfire.com/id/anastasia/tori.html or at my Music Page: http://www.angelfire.com/id/anastasia/music.html §§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§ - ---------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:18:43 EST From: MsSakamoto Subject: Re: Least Favorite Tori Song In a message dated 98-01-13 02:11:05 EST, krishan@pc.jaring.my writes: > BTW, Tear in Your Hand is one of my fav songs from LE. Love it sooooo much. Oh, I love that song, too. When I first got that album, and heard that song, I was like "who the fuck is neil?" I didn't find out until, like, a year later when I was reading a book review in (don't laugh) Sassy magazine about Death: The High Cost of Living (the trade paperback) and I thought that it sounded so groovy, so I waited until I met someone who had it (another year) and borrowed it permanently. Well, it wasn't the paperback, I have it in comic form, but I met someone who had the paperback and so I've read Tori's intro, but I didn't really need to read it there because about another year later, I got a Sandman book of short stories that had it in there, too. Sorry about how dumb that sounds with all the run-on sentances and stuff. I don't really think in complete thoughts. I'm just happy that my typing can keep up with it! Kisses, Suzanne - -- "And when he gives me reasons to justify each move/They're getting harder to believe/I know this can't continue/I've still a lot to prove/There must be more I could achieve/But I don't have the nerve to leave" - "Nobody's Side", "Chess" Soundtrack ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V3 #15 ************************************