From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #355 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Wednesday, December 10 1997 Volume 02 : Number 355 Today's Subjects: ----------------- What tori does [Richard Holmes ] What tori does [Richard Holmes ] Tori+Suz... [MaLe ] Re: Tori RAINN CD? [Nadyne Mielke ] Snowed in [Ashley Blaize ] Tori RAINN CD? [Stephen Wiener ] Re: Hello [Lil3rthqks ] DentNews For December 10, 1997 [Mikewhy ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:14:54 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Holmes Subject: What tori does On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:49:49 BST, "Doron Vidavski" writes: > But the fact to be most stressed here is that Kate has herself > confessed (in the very few interviews that her record company forced > her to give over the years) that she does NOT see herself as a > musician. She sees herself as an *accompanist* (is it spelt with an I > or a Y, I wonder...) and the piano and other instruments that she > plays are only a vehicle for her songs. She is first and foremost a > writer (an incredible one, at that) and a singer. This, I think is a > very important distinction between her and our T. Tori is primarily > an achingly talented pianist, and I would say that for her the > writing comes second. I would agree that tori's a very talented pianist, but would have trouble accepting that for her writing comes second. For one, she "writes/ creates/ composes" her instrumental parts as well, so certainly that doesn't come second. (Note that a "pianist" usually implies someone who's primary interest lie in the execution and interpretation of the piano score or improvisation.) Tori (I believe) is so intense in many ways because she does write / perform with all her body, mind, soul in a very integrated way; she seems to stick her roots deep into the unfathomable chasms of human emotion, primordial fire, and shamanic ecstasy, and extract the raw essence, and radiate it outwards in her performance. In this way a bit of magic touches all her listeners (at least those with ears to hear and heart to feel). [ I also think that Kate's great too, in a bit different way - perhaps a bit more crafted and studied. Kate is very inspired and original as well -- but this *is* the tori list. ] Sometimes I think that this poem (which has tie-ins to many of the things Tori has affinity for -- at least in the full version) gives a bit of my impressions of Tori: "...You drink strength from your dark fierce roots and you hang at the sun's own fiery breast and with the green cities of your boughs you shelter and celebrate woman, with the cauldrons of your energies burning red, burning green." - from "The Twelve-Spoked Wheel Flashing" by Marge Piercy I have at times imagined her "rooted" into a forest with flaming red hair, drinking the energies with her feet and showering them on her audience... [does this make me a nut case ;-] Beth Winegarner writes: > Since the subject of comparisons between Kate Bush and Tori has come up > recently on the Precious Things list, I wanted to post about something I've > been thinking about. I listen to Kate Bush's album "The Red Shoes" a lot at > work because we have a few used copies of it and it's nice to hear while I'm > working. But the other day I was listening a bit more closely and it > occurred to me that "Lily" reminds me a lot of some of the themes on Pele, > especially on CaLS. A few things in particular... > > "Well I said > 'Lily, oh Lily I don't feel safe > I feel that life has blown a great big hole through me' > ANd she said > 'Child you must protect yourself > I'll show you how with fire'" I think fire speaks to a lot of people - remember Sarah McLachlan's "Into the Fire"? > This reminds me a lot of Tori's discussion of the notion that Pele was about > finding her own fire, so to speak. Not stealing it from men anymore, but > finding it within... and I've always thought that that search really started > with CaLS (both because it was the single, the song we heard before we heard > the whole album, and because it seems to be the turning point for the album > being in the middle). CaLS talks about finding strength in womanhood and > female friends ("I need a big loan from the girl zone...") and here Bush is > talking to Lily is -- and I'm naive enough that I don't know if she's > talking about a specific figure or a friend -- but it's obviously a feminine > influence. Then she says: > > "Gabriel before me > Raphael behind me > Michael to my right > Uriel on my left side > In the circle of fire" Sounds like something out of a Golden Dawn ritual...(of course the origins are much earlier). > And Tori says: "Boys on my left side/Boys on my right side/Boys in the > middle/And you're not here." > > Now, before anyone gets up in arms, I'm not saying that Tori is stealing > anything from Kate Bush's work (as some people have alleged). I just think > it's neat that it seems Tori was inspired by this song. Other songs on the > album, like the title track and Rubberband Girl, are inspirational in the > sense of finding strength and becoming more magical (in the first) and more > flexible (in the second). > > What do you guys think, especially those of you who listen to both artists? > I found it really interesting. I think a lot of the same things inspire both artists; but they each are crafting their own individual creations. "rosalind's pea soup" ("keriloo") writes: > To elaborate on Yvette's comment... > I think the majority of Tori's more powerful emotional songs follow a > very spirit-connected sexual rhythm that is very comparable to our > mentalities during such an encounter...like she says, she is some > sort of a Mary Magdalene...spiritually aware of herself in every > sense. You might be interested in "The moon beneath her feet" by Kintsler, where the Magdalene is the title of a priestess (who's called the "whore of babylon" by various folks). One of the Marys who is a Magdalene is a primary character - now here's a tie-in to an earlier thread: Judas is identified with Set (Seth), Jesu (jesus) is Osiris, and Mary with Isis. Don't care for the sacrificial king bit, but on the whole an enjoyable story (which I won't give away *too* much of the plot of here). > I know I can definitely connect with this, due to my religious > upbringing and the sexual taboos that were shoved down my throat. > I mean....think about it...PW...precious things...blood > roses...LE...Space Dog(definitely has the rhythm part)... > She balances these with songs revealing little bits of > insight...lighter songs...and then she has the heart-rippers...slow > and pulling your guts out. Although not filled with the > rhythm, the residue of it kinda sticks and you get the feeling that > the orgasm has passed and you're sitting there in a little movie > theatre of your life watching it pass by and trying to hold on to the > moments. Blood Roses is *almost* too intense now for me after having read Walker's "Posessing the Secret of Joy" -- I imagine Tashi painting huger and more grotesque roosters in a mad frenzy in that house, as she's remembering the past... the image is too vivid. Still enjoy connecting with that intense an emotion, but wow, not to be taken lightly. sheesh. I think a lot of tori's songs have some of this intense of energy behind them, cuz we *really* don't know what they mean to her, at least not all the time - there's more there than meets the ear. - -Richard. (the other richard) @ \@/ Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) @ | @ \|/ " 'The Book of History has many missing pages' @ | Murmurs the Madonna of the Middle Ages @ , , | , , But in between her cracks you can read between the lines @ ' ' ' ' ' She'd love nothing better than to rob the Louvre blind @ Baroque and complicated, her lovers never stay @ It looks like Mona Lisa is having a bad day... " @ - Michelle Shocked, "Looks Like Mona Lisa.." (on Captain Swing) @ @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra / Laura Love @ Susan McKeown \ Sarah McLachlan / Libana \ Danielle Dax \ Dog Faced Hermans @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush \ Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Ingrid Karklins \ Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:14:54 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Holmes Subject: What tori does On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:49:49 BST, "Doron Vidavski" writes: > But the fact to be most stressed here is that Kate has herself > confessed (in the very few interviews that her record company forced > her to give over the years) that she does NOT see herself as a > musician. She sees herself as an *accompanist* (is it spelt with an I > or a Y, I wonder...) and the piano and other instruments that she > plays are only a vehicle for her songs. She is first and foremost a > writer (an incredible one, at that) and a singer. This, I think is a > very important distinction between her and our T. Tori is primarily > an achingly talented pianist, and I would say that for her the > writing comes second. I would agree that tori's a very talented pianist, but would have trouble accepting that for her writing comes second. For one, she "writes/ creates/ composes" her instrumental parts as well, so certainly that doesn't come second. (Note that a "pianist" usually implies someone who's primary interest lie in the execution and interpretation of the piano score or improvisation.) Tori (I believe) is so intense in many ways because she does write / perform with all her body, mind, soul in a very integrated way; she seems to stick her roots deep into the unfathomable chasms of human emotion, primordial fire, and shamanic ecstasy, and extract the raw essence, and radiate it outwards in her performance. In this way a bit of magic touches all her listeners (at least those with ears to hear and heart to feel). [ I also think that Kate's great too, in a bit different way - perhaps a bit more crafted and studied. Kate is very inspired and original as well -- but this *is* the tori list. ] Sometimes I think that this poem (which has tie-ins to many of the things Tori has affinity for -- at least in the full version) gives a bit of my impressions of Tori: "...You drink strength from your dark fierce roots and you hang at the sun's own fiery breast and with the green cities of your boughs you shelter and celebrate woman, with the cauldrons of your energies burning red, burning green." - from "The Twelve-Spoked Wheel Flashing" by Marge Piercy I have at times imagined her "rooted" into a forest with flaming red hair, drinking the energies with her feet and showering them on her audience... [does this make me a nut case ;-] Beth Winegarner writes: > Since the subject of comparisons between Kate Bush and Tori has come up > recently on the Precious Things list, I wanted to post about something I've > been thinking about. I listen to Kate Bush's album "The Red Shoes" a lot at > work because we have a few used copies of it and it's nice to hear while I'm > working. But the other day I was listening a bit more closely and it > occurred to me that "Lily" reminds me a lot of some of the themes on Pele, > especially on CaLS. A few things in particular... > > "Well I said > 'Lily, oh Lily I don't feel safe > I feel that life has blown a great big hole through me' > ANd she said > 'Child you must protect yourself > I'll show you how with fire'" I think fire speaks to a lot of people - remember Sarah McLachlan's "Into the Fire"? > This reminds me a lot of Tori's discussion of the notion that Pele was about > finding her own fire, so to speak. Not stealing it from men anymore, but > finding it within... and I've always thought that that search really started > with CaLS (both because it was the single, the song we heard before we heard > the whole album, and because it seems to be the turning point for the album > being in the middle). CaLS talks about finding strength in womanhood and > female friends ("I need a big loan from the girl zone...") and here Bush is > talking to Lily is -- and I'm naive enough that I don't know if she's > talking about a specific figure or a friend -- but it's obviously a feminine > influence. Then she says: > > "Gabriel before me > Raphael behind me > Michael to my right > Uriel on my left side > In the circle of fire" Sounds like something out of a Golden Dawn ritual...(of course the origins are much earlier). > And Tori says: "Boys on my left side/Boys on my right side/Boys in the > middle/And you're not here." > > Now, before anyone gets up in arms, I'm not saying that Tori is stealing > anything from Kate Bush's work (as some people have alleged). I just think > it's neat that it seems Tori was inspired by this song. Other songs on the > album, like the title track and Rubberband Girl, are inspirational in the > sense of finding strength and becoming more magical (in the first) and more > flexible (in the second). > > What do you guys think, especially those of you who listen to both artists? > I found it really interesting. I think a lot of the same things inspire both artists; but they each are crafting their own individual creations. "rosalind's pea soup" ("keriloo") writes: > To elaborate on Yvette's comment... > I think the majority of Tori's more powerful emotional songs follow a > very spirit-connected sexual rhythm that is very comparable to our > mentalities during such an encounter...like she says, she is some > sort of a Mary Magdalene...spiritually aware of herself in every > sense. You might be interested in "The moon beneath her feet" by Kintsler, where the Magdalene is the title of a priestess (who's called the "whore of babylon" by various folks). One of the Marys who is a Magdalene is a primary character - now here's a tie-in to an earlier thread: Judas is identified with Set (Seth), Jesu (jesus) is Osiris, and Mary with Isis. Don't care for the sacrificial king bit, but on the whole an enjoyable story (which I won't give away *too* much of the plot of here). > I know I can definitely connect with this, due to my religious > upbringing and the sexual taboos that were shoved down my throat. > I mean....think about it...PW...precious things...blood > roses...LE...Space Dog(definitely has the rhythm part)... > She balances these with songs revealing little bits of > insight...lighter songs...and then she has the heart-rippers...slow > and pulling your guts out. Although not filled with the > rhythm, the residue of it kinda sticks and you get the feeling that > the orgasm has passed and you're sitting there in a little movie > theatre of your life watching it pass by and trying to hold on to the > moments. Blood Roses is *almost* too intense now for me after having read Walker's "Posessing the Secret of Joy" -- I imagine Tashi painting huger and more grotesque roosters in a mad frenzy in that house, as she's remembering the past... the image is too vivid. Still enjoy connecting with that intense an emotion, but wow, not to be taken lightly. sheesh. I think a lot of tori's songs have some of this intense of energy behind them, cuz we *really* don't know what they mean to her, at least not all the time - there's more there than meets the ear. - -Richard. (the other richard) @ \@/ Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) @ | @ \|/ " 'The Book of History has many missing pages' @ | Murmurs the Madonna of the Middle Ages @ , , | , , But in between her cracks you can read between the lines @ ' ' ' ' ' She'd love nothing better than to rob the Louvre blind @ Baroque and complicated, her lovers never stay @ It looks like Mona Lisa is having a bad day... " @ - Michelle Shocked, "Looks Like Mona Lisa.." (on Captain Swing) @ @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra / Laura Love @ Susan McKeown \ Sarah McLachlan / Libana \ Danielle Dax \ Dog Faced Hermans @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush \ Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Ingrid Karklins \ Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 23:28:10 +0100 From: MaLe Subject: Tori+Suz... Hi, I just found out about this list and I have a question... I really like Tori=B4s music, her amazing melodies, lyrics combined with her stunning voice ! Anyway, I was wondering if any of you listen or like Suzanne Vega=B4s music, which I consider to be very good aswell. Differnt than Tori but also amazing. Tori is without doubt a genius on the piano, but so is Suzanne on the Guitare. Any comments ? Thanks... MaLe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:21:35 -0500 (EST) From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: Tori RAINN CD? On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Stephen Wiener wrote: > Somebody posted about an upcoming RAINN CD, I believe an import, and I > deleted the post. Can anyone give me the info again or let me know if > the CD is available yet. There is no legit release of the RAINN show. However, there has evidentially surfaced a bootleg called Rain that only has the songs aired on Lifetime. In addition, given the recent release of the RAINN show on video in the UK, I'd be willing to guess that it's only a matter of time until there's a bootleg copied off of this. If you'd like a copy of the whole show, I have a very good version {1st gen from the minidisc master}. Email me for more details. :) /nad *************************************************************************** * Nadyne Mielke, CS majour, Southern Tech, Marietta, GA * * * * "I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of * * oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate * * commerce. " -- J. Edgar Hoover * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:12:40 -0800 (PST) From: Ashley Blaize Subject: Snowed in Hey! This is to anyone that has sent me money for something! I'm kinda, well snowed in right now. The place to get these things is 50 miles away. So, I will get these ASAP and if I can't get there in time to get them, then you will be getting your checks back! I promise! Sorry if this causes any inconvenience. Damn you Mother Nature! :) Take Care! Ashley PS - Sorry again! === "Hold on to nothing as fast as you can" - Tori Amos Tea With the Waitress - http://www.comsource.net/~nacho/Tori_Amos/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "why is it that birds fly high in the sky, proud of their ability, yet they rest in the branches of the depressing weeping willow?" - Mackenzie Arnold _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 16:52:41 -0600 From: Stephen Wiener Subject: Tori RAINN CD? Somebody posted about an upcoming RAINN CD, I believe an import, and I deleted the post. Can anyone give me the info again or let me know if the CD is available yet. Stephen Wiener swiener@onramp.net Dallas, TX ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:43:53 EST From: Lil3rthqks Subject: Re: Hello In a message dated 97-12-09 00:13:16 EST, Graham.Reynolds@btinternet.com writes: well, we all know what Graham wrote, right? :-) anyway, hello Graham! i'm more of a lurker myself, but i really do enjoy this list, too. it's the only one i've subscribed to for more than a few weeks because we don't seem to get the nastiness and the volumes of off-topic, one-word posts. also, i wanted to respond to you because i also live in Liverpool! are you from England, or New York like me? okay, now for my Tori content: does anyone know when she's touring again? i missed her last year, and i'm determined to make it this time! well, byebye and happy Tuesday! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 00:12:57 -0500 From: Mikewhy Subject: DentNews For December 10, 1997 A listing of *some* of the recent additions to my web site, A Dent In the Tori Amos Net Universe: or tori.by.net As a final reminder, you can still order the Tori Amos/RAINN litho or print on my site for $19.95. If you order soon you can receive yours by Christmas. All the proceeds from this collectible will go to help keep the invaluable RAINN hotline going. RAINN will not make it without our help, so if you can please help! You can order online or using an 800 number, or you can order by snail mail. The biggest thing recently was Tori's appearance on MTV News on December 4th. They mentioned that she was on Great Expectations and also said she was recording her new album. They included a short interview with her from London talking about RAINN. The cool thing was the interview was from November 11, so it was very recent. You can thus see a recent photo of Tori at my site from this interview, plus download a quicktime video of the interview as well! I added some more news on Great Expectations, including the fact that you can now pre-order both the soundtrack and the original score online at CDnow for $12.99 each plus shipping & handling. It will be delivered to you the day it is released, which is currently January 6, 1998. You can also read about a Philadelphia radio station that debuted Siren on the air. I also have a few early reviews on my Great Expectations page from people who have advanced copies of the soundtrack. The one mystery remaining is how many songs we will hear Tori sing on the score. As for new album news, It has been reported that the drummer for Critters Buggin, Matt Chamberlain, recorded with Tori and may join her on tour. I now have several links to resources where you can find out more about this talented drummer and former member of Pearl Jam. Ever wonder what the Lizzies are from Father Lucifer? I explore that topic in my thoughts section. I have added several new poems from the creative minds of Toriphiles, as well as a wonderful new story from Beth Coulter called Icicle: A Christmas Story. In my Sound/Video clips page, you can still access RealAudio clips from the Tori Amos In Conversation CD, as well as other goodies like a video clip from the 1992 Little Earthquakes video and a wav file of Tori's mom doing a promotional spot for a Washington DC radio station! Lastly, There are several new photos in my Ears With Feet Photo album! I would like to close with some caution. There are several places online where you can read interpretations of Tori's music. This can be a fun thing to do, and you can see some of that on my site as well as other great sites. But please be careful about any interpretations from people who claim to know Tori personally or who reveal very intimate details about her life. I would be very skeptical of such claims and I would also be very suspect of anyone who would post personal information about Tori that has no business being spread on the internet. Despite the fact that I follow Tori's public life, I try to leave details about her private life and relationships off my web site, because they do not belong there, unless she talks about them herself in public. Be very wary of people who do not honor Tori's privacy and reveal things about her life that is not based on real evidence. Yours in Tori, Mikewhy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. Whitehead mikewhy@iglou.com My Dent In The Tori Amos Net Universe => http://www.aye.net/~mikewhy/toriamos.html "Moses I know, I know you've seen fire, but you've never seen fire until you've seen Pele blow..." Tori Amos - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #355 *************************************