From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #329 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Saturday, November 22 1997 Volume 02 : Number 329 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: to all ye people interested in musique plus ["lydi[uh]" ] Re: queries/couple of questions [violet@slip.net] Re: queries/couple of questions ["Michael L. Whitehead" ] Re: Re: queries/couple of questions [JEDAS1@aol.com] RAINN Video now available ["Planet Tori" ] Re: queries/couple of questions [Urucyon@aol.com] Re: queries/couple of questions [Shirley Ye ] Re: queries/couple of questions ["Michael L. Whitehead" ] Re: queries/couple of questions [darkfire@netcom.ca] Re: queries/couple of questions [Rachel Roth ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 20:13:12 -1000 From: "lydi[uh]" Subject: Re: to all ye people interested in musique plus does anyoen have any brilliant ideas for peopel liek me [in hawaii] who have no credit cards..... i have *no* boots.. and only the LE video.. please redeem my pitiful tori collection.. i will pay peopel for helping me out.. pleeeeez thankyouthankyouthankyou ~~>lydia rain wrote: > ok just incase anyone went to the weathermen page and didnt know which > > video was the musique plus concert i was taling about, its called > "tori > amos value pack" and its $17. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~rain~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - -- '`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`*'`* don't treat me like i am something that happened to you Ani DiFranco, Adam and Eve ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ you *want* to visit P A P E R S O U L S i know you do. _+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_ http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/9386 !@#!@#!#@#!@#!#@!#!@#!@!@#!@#!#@!#@!#@#!#@#!#!#!#!@#!#!#!@#!@#!@#!#@!#@!#!@#!#!@#!@#!#@!!#!@!#!#@!@#!#! YEA. I know you want to save a wretch like me ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:32:59 -0800 From: rain Subject: lady eorann's answers www.theweathermen.com...quite reliable, although my packages took a while to come..... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~rain~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 01:35:10 -0800 From: violet@slip.net Subject: Re: queries/couple of questions Brian asked: >please, tell me what she's up to right now. Working on the next album. >c)What some people might see as a sick question, but Tori's >always wanted it brought forward not covered up so that's >what i'll do. I had alway held that she was raped by a >'fan' outside an early concert when she offered him a lift >home, but a site I recently visited said she wasn't. Which is >true? While living in Los Angeles in her early 20s and working a regular gig at a club there, she was kidnapped and held at knifepoint by one of the club regulars who had asked her for a ride home after one of the shows. She was not officially "raped," and it was not a gun that the guy had. (This has angered some fans, as they feel that she's "lied" about being raped, but the reality of the situation is that Tori writes *songs* and songs are not necessarily reality. I'm sure many of those folks would be upset to learn that she's not actually seen furry mussels marching on or Big Bird on a fishing line.) He repeatedly threatened to rape and kill her, but ultimately was too absorbed with taking drugs and trying to figure out where to score more and he never actually hurt her. He forced her to sing for him and told her that as long as she'd keep singing, she'd stay alive. He voluntarily let her go in the end. >d)I read somewhere Tori was working on a new album in the >carribean. Is this true; if so; does that mean a tour, and >is there any chance of her coming to the UK (anywhere i can >actually afford to get to, to see her) She was recording in the Carribean, there will be a tour once the album is out (in the first half of 1998), and she will definitely play dates in the UK. Meg asked: >1. I just got Y Kant Tori Read...and on this album her voice seems more >hoarse. I remember reading she abused her voice and needed to go to her >grandparents for a while and not talk..Was this during this period or >right after? The period where her vocal cords were damaged was in July of 1983, long before YKTR. She simply sang way too much, seven or more hours a night, five days a week. >2. on Y Kant..did she write the songs herself, or were the band members >involved? Some of the songs were written by Tori alone, some were written with friends/songwriters she knew in L.A. The bandmembers came into the picture *after* the songs were already written. Violet xoxox ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:04:15 -0500 From: "Michael L. Whitehead" Subject: Re: queries/couple of questions Violet said: >She was >not officially "raped," and it was not a gun that the guy had. (This has >angered some fans, as they feel that she's "lied" about being raped, but >the reality of the situation is that Tori writes *songs* and songs are not >necessarily reality. I'm sure many of those folks would be upset to learn >that she's not actually seen furry mussels marching on or Big Bird on a >fishing line.) He repeatedly threatened to rape and kill her, but >ultimately was too absorbed with taking drugs and trying to figure out >where to score more and he never actually hurt her. He forced her to sing >for him and told her that as long as she'd keep singing, she'd stay alive. >He voluntarily let her go in the end. I have always heard that she escaped on her own, not that he let her go. Do you have a source for that part of it? Otherwise, what you have said matched what I know. >She was recording in the Carribean, there will be a tour once the album is >out (in the first half of 1998), and she will definitely play dates in the >UK. Actually, Tori said she was *writing* her album in "the tropics." I am not sure if she ever actually said where the tropics" were. Some people think she simply meant Florida, while others the Carribean! If she did some recording at this time, it was most likely informal type things. She started officially *recording* in October in Cornwall England in "spme old stables" as Tori said on an interview on 99X in Atlanta. Word is the recording is still going on, but should be done before too much longer. More Tori.....:) Yours in Tori, Mikewhy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. Whitehead mikewhy@iglou.com My Dent In The Tori Amos Net Universe => http://www.aye.net/~mikewhy/toriamos.html "Moses I know, I know you've seen fire, but you've never seen fire until you've seen Pele blow..." Tori Amos - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:46:13 -0500 (EST) From: BrandyB24@aol.com Subject: calender The internet store CDNow has tori calenders I just got mine and it is wonderful, it only cost about $12.00 But I havent seen any stores yet...... hmmmmm Brandy Schaefer "I got my rape hat on honey but I always could accessorise...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:58:39 +0000 From: Ken Tough Subject: Re: One more thing about Professional Widow Lady Eorann wrote: >> The pyramid is astronomically arranged so that there is a shaft >> in it which will point at (the dog star) Sirius on its rising at >> the spring equinox. >Just for the record, the dog star was considered to be Isis herself. >> a ceremony is enacted ... The idea is that this frees up the >> semen somehow that then makes its way to the star and fertilises >> it or some astral god to allow the rebirth of spirit as a god. >I've not heard that part. What I do know is that these women dressed as >Isis and Nephthys would often be the ones to cut open the mouth of the ... >How this relates to PW mystifies me, although if you >are correct it would definitely bring new meaning to the word >starfucker... ;) Since Tori has mentioned, at some length, the importance of the Isis myth in the whole of Boys for Pele, (and yes, she has pointed out that 14 [non-capo] songs correspond with 14 body parts), I thought it might be nice to expand just a bit. Note that there is also an interesting connection between Isis/Horus and the "pig picture". Sorry if anyone is terribly bored by this. I found a nice ref about the "star" connection at the death of Osiris (and by extension of the pharoahs as well): http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/solos/door.html It had been known since 1964 [...] that at the time the pyramids were built the Southern shaft of the King's Chamber pointed towards the culmination point of Orion's Belt. In 1986 Robert Bauval (later to be my co-author on The Orion Mystery) demonstrated that the equivalent shaft ... pointed towards the star Sirius. This was clearly no coincidence as in the Egyptian religion Orion was linked with the god of the dead, Osiris, and Sirius with his sister-consort Isis. On the strength of this stellar orientation of the shafts, Robert Bauval and I postulated in our book that the Queen's Chamber was designed to be used for the performance of the Egyptian rebirth ritual known as "The Opening of the Mouth" ceremony. In this the mummy of the deceased was stood upright and its mouth quite literally opened using a small tool made from meteoritic iron. As it is recognised that this tool was made in the shape of the Little Bear constellation... it is not unreasonable to see this as a stellar ritual. Sorry, no gems here about the "fucking" insemenation part. But Osiris was transformed into the heavenly stars, and Isis supposedly did impregnate herself from him after his death (see below). (Widow of a dead "star"? Courtney? hmmm) - --------------------------------------------------------------- About Isis / Osiris / Horus - --------------------------------------------------------------- From another nice ref about Isis & Osiris and the Horus thing: http://www-isis.ecs.soton.ac.uk/computing/system/machine_names.html isis (Aset, Eset) "Throne". Egyptian mother goddess. Daughter of Geb and Nut according to the Heliopolitan genealogy. Sister and wife of Osiris. Mother of Horus. She was depicted in human form, crowned either by a throne or by cow horns enclosing a sun disk. A vulture was also sometimes incorporated in her Crown. She is sometimes depicted as a kite above the mummified body of Osiris. As the personification of the throne, she was an important source of the pharaoh's power. ... It was Isis who retrieved and reassembled the body of Osiris after his murder and dismemberment by Seth. In this connection she took on the role of a goddess of the dead and of funeral rites. Isis impregnated herself from the corpse and subsequently gave birth to Horus. She gave birth in secrecy at Khemmis in the Nile delta and hid the child from Seth in the papyrus swamps. Horus later defeated Seth and became the first ruler of a united Egypt. Isis, as mother of Horus, was by extension regarded as the mother and protectress of the pharaohs. The relationship between Isis and Horus may also have influenced the Christian conception of the relationship between Mary and the infant Jesus Christ. The depiction of the seated holding or suckling the child Horus is certainly reminiscent of the iconography of Mary and Jesus. osiris (Usire) Egyptian god of the underworld and of vegetation. Son of Nut and Geb. His birthplace was said to be Rosetau in the necropolis west of Memphis. Brother of Nephthys and Seth, and the brother and husband of Isis. Isis gave birth to Horus after his death, having impregnated herself with semen from his corpse. Osiris was depicted in human form wrapped up as a mummy, holding the crook and flail. ... Seth took advantage of Isis's temporary absence on one occasion, cut the body to pieces, and cast them into the Nile. (In the Egyptian texts this incident alone accounts for the murder of Osiris.) Isis searched the land for the body parts of Osiris, and was eventually able to piece together his body, whole save for the penis, which had been swallowed by a crocodile[*] (according to Plutarch) or a fish (according to Egyptian texts). In some Egyptian texts, the penis is buried at Memphis[#]. Isis replaced the penis with a reasonable facsimile, and she was often portrayed in the form of a kite being impregnated by the ithyphallic[@] corpse of Osiris. [Too bad the burial was premature she said, and smiled]. - -- Ken Tough "Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." ken@objectech.co.uk Cornwall, United Kingdom -- Patti Smith [*] ran in to some confusion, perhaps? [#] along with Elvis, presumably. [@] fish-a-form, of course. Tuna, rubber, a little blubber... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:43:49 -0500 From: "Giovanni Mantilla" Subject: VH1 Message Boards Hi, Yesterday I had such a great laugh while visiting the VH1 website (www.vh1.com) . You see, I went to the message boards, and clicked on "New Artists", and to my surprise, Tori's name was there, which was the first odd thing to be found, Tori is definitely not a new artist, but oh well, it's VH1 after all. So I clicked on her message board and started reading all the posts, and I found this post of some girl called Courtney, and it was so funny, she totally confused Tori Amos with another person, but "who?" you ask?, well, Tori Spelling!! I was like "Ah!", it was so unbelieveable, the girl was basically thrilled to find out Tori Spelling was supposedly a singer too, she said she loved her on Beverly Hills 907569whatever, and went on saying how she was the best actress ever and stuff like that, it was so silly. So, real Tori fans started asking her to leave, to not post anymore, but what did she do? she kept posting and posting and posting, it's like she's blind or something, she keeps posting about what's going to happen next on this TV show, and wondering things like "will Dylan kiss her on the cheek or in the mouth?" or really dumbass things like that, but the funny thing is that even though everybody seems to want her out of there, and everyone there is hating her, but she just doesn't realize so. I think more people like her have started posting stuff about the TV show and are as clueless as her. It's so funny. I also found a Whitney Houston fan try to sabotage the rest of the fans. These VH1 Message boards are really not very important, but it's actually sad to see how some message board dedicated to her is working so out of the way. Go to VH1 and see for yourselves. Giovanni Mantilla giofabman@hotmail.com ********************* CORNFLAKE CITY-----> My Tribute To Tori Amos http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Lounge/1826/main.html Giovanni's ARTIST CENTRAL http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Lounge/1826/personal.html ********************** "Me and Jesus a few years back, Used to hang and He said, "It's your choice, babe, just remember, I don't think you'll be back three days time, so you choose well." " ToRi AmOs, "Me And A Gun" *************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:35:57 -0500 (EST) From: JEDAS1@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: queries/couple of questions In a message dated 11/21/97 9:41:01 AM, violet@slip.net wrote: <> So she never ever ever was raped?! This is the first time I've ever heard this! What's going on?! julie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:42:01 +0000 From: "Planet Tori" Subject: RAINN Video now available Gday all EWF Finally Tori amos Live From New York has been released in Australia! We are taking Credit Card orders via our Website (for all orders for Aust and New Zealand) at $29.95 plus $5 p&p. We have WVA approval to do so. This is the ENTIRE Tori Amos RAINN Concert that was performed by The Hammer Of The Goddess on Jan 23 1997 at Madison Square Garden Theater in New York USA The running time is 100mins. Track Listing 1/Beauty Queen/Horses 6.21 2/Leather 3.41 3/Blood Roses 3.49 4/Little Amsterdam 6.40 5/Cornflake Girl 6.22 6/Waitress 4.04 7/Little Earthquakes 7.39 8/Upside Down 5.16 9/Winter 6.36 10/Precious Things 6.33 11/Caught a Lite Sneeze 6.42 12/Talula 4.21 13/Me and a Gun 6.11 14/Marianne 5.32 15/Silent All These Years 3.00 16/Muhammed My Friend 3.00 - With Maynard :) 17/Pretty Good Year 4.29 To celebrate the launch of Tori's RAINN Concert Planet Tori "Radio" has something special instore for Show Number 13 - See you soon :) RDT Maria and Terry PLANET TORI http://www.geocities.com/~planettori - --------------------------------------------- She's a Beauty Queen, my sweet bean bag in the street - ---------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:28:52 -0500 (EST) From: Urucyon@aol.com Subject: Re: queries/couple of questions i don't think she was ever physically raped. even so, what did happen was just as devastating for her. rape is not about sex, it's about power and control. with that in mind, I think that man emotionally raped her. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:33:48 -0800 From: Shirley Ye Subject: Re: queries/couple of questions I always though that the "gun" in Me and a Gun was symbolic of the guy's penis. That's probably my overactive imagination though :P Also, though I'm not angry that Tori "lied" about her rape, I can see where other people might be coming from... I mean, here you are, takng so much inspiration from a song, thinking that the song talks right to you... and it turns out that the experience is false for the artist! This is not true for Tori, of course, because she did have a near-rape incident, but the thing is - if you stretch it on one thing, why can't you stretch it on another? And, come on, the subject matter in Me and a Gun is far more "realistic" than any Big Bird in Talula. hile living in Los Angeles in her early 20s and working a regular gig at a >club there, she was kidnapped and held at knifepoint by one of the club >regulars who had asked her for a ride home after one of the shows. She was >not officially "raped," and it was not a gun that the guy had. (This has >angered some fans, as they feel that she's "lied" about being raped, but >the reality of the situation is that Tori writes *songs* and songs are not >necessarily reality. I'm sure many of those folks would be upset to learn >that she's not actually seen furry mussels marching on or Big Bird on a >fishing line.) He repeatedly threatened to rape and kill her, but >ultimately was too absorbed with taking drugs and trying to figure out >where to score more and he never actually hurt her. He forced her to sing >for him and told her that as long as she'd keep singing, she'd stay alive. >He voluntarily let her go in the end. >0> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 20:40:21 -0500 From: "Michael L. Whitehead" Subject: Re: queries/couple of questions Shirley Ye stated: >Also, though I'm not angry that Tori "lied" about her rape, I can see where >other people might be coming from... I mean, here you are, takng so much >inspiration from a song, thinking that the song talks right to you... and >it turns out that the experience is false for the artist! This is not true >for Tori, of course, because she did have a near-rape incident, but the >thing is - if you stretch it on one thing, why can't you stretch it on >another? I am sure there are strong opinions on this issue. Tori calls her experience rape, and I do not debate that. NO ONE knows exactly what went on that night, and Tori has not released graphic details. To me, making the definition of rape one of penetration alone is really really misguided. We do not know what other horrible things this guy did..maybe he hurt her or..it is too horrible to think about. I trust that Tori was violated in some way, for she says so, and that experience has caused her years of grief and denial. Do you really think some guy would take her somewhere. have her sing a few dittys, let her go, and then Tori would go on to write Me and a Gun and help thousands of abuse victims? That night was one of terror and violation, where she was made to feel worthless and KNEW that she would be dead at any moment. It does not take a horrible imagination to imagine how terrible that was. I knew a dear dear friend in college. One day as she was walking home, a guy grabbed her, pulled her into an alley, and started fondling her with a knife to her throat. After about 10 minutes of groping with clothes on, she managed to get into a position where she hit him over the head and ran like hell. She escaped thank god. But she had nightmares for 3 years. She would break out crying for hours, and to this day she fears going anywhere. Now imagine having that happen for hours or days and it becomes easy to see how violating it is. Sorry to be so graphic, but I truly think Tori is 100% sincere about her experience. It was for her, a rape. Here is a quote from Tori about it from an article called The Hurt Inside from Hot Press Magazine on February 23, 1994 I think it says it all very powerfully: >Tori's desire to make herself 'whole' again is finally brought into full >focus >when she bravely chooses to close this interview by reflecting on >the specific >circumstances that night she was raped. > "I'll never talk about it at this level again but let me ask you. >Why have I survived that king of night, when other women didn't", she >says. > "How am I alive to tell you this tale when he was ready to slice >me up? In the song I say it was 'Me and a Gun' but it wasn't a gun. It >was a knife he had. And the idea was to take me to his friends and cut me >up, and he kept telling me that, for hours. And if he hadn't needed more >drugs I would have been just one more news report, where you see the >parents grieving for their daughter". > "And I was singing hymns, as I say in the song, because he told me >to. I sang to stay alive. Yet I survived that torture, which left me >urinating all over myself and left me paralysed for years. That's what >that night was all about, mutilation, more than violation through sex". > "I really do feel as though I was psychologically mutilated that >night and that now I'm trying to put the pieces back together again. >Through love, not hatred. And through my music. My strength has been to >open again, to life, and my victory is the fact that, despite it all, I >kept alive my vulnerability". Yours in Tori, Mikewhy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael L. Whitehead mikewhy@iglou.com My Dent In The Tori Amos Net Universe => http://www.aye.net/~mikewhy/toriamos.html "Moses I know, I know you've seen fire, but you've never seen fire until you've seen Pele blow..." Tori Amos - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:08:16 PST From: "Ashre, Ashre" Subject: Re: queries/couple of questions >Also, though I'm not angry that Tori "lied" about her rape hold on... someone update me please!!! she LIED about the rape?!?!?!?!?!? i am soooo confused :? Don't lose your cracker jacks, Staci ()()()()()(Flashdance)()()()()()() "You go out there and the music starts and you begin to feel it. And your body starts to move... Sometimes I can't wait to get out there, just so I can disappear" ()()()()()(Jennifer Beals)()()()()() Ashre8@hotmail.com ~*-Staci-*~ the *proud* owner and creator of: _*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Ashre *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/6271 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 20:52:15 -0600 From: darkfire@netcom.ca Subject: Re: queries/couple of questions Hey all... About whether or not Tori was raped...does anyone remember an article in 1994, where Tori addresses a journalist who called her a "shivering waif in a forest" after she wrote MaaG? Tori replied with "It's like, okay sister, you get raped and get ready to be cut up, then you write about it and sing about it. And you have the balls to call me a shivering waif in a forest." I don't remember what the article was called, but I -do- remember what Tori said. And I don't think she'd make a specific reference to a rape, especially hers, if a rape didn't actually happen... Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 21:41:44 -0600 From: Rachel Roth Subject: Re: queries/couple of questions first: hi to all of you I'm "new".... Now: the point. Whether tori actually was raped or not is not up to us to decide... rather it is for Tori and the man in the car to know. Whether Tori was raped in the conventional sense of the word or raped emotionally, she was put through a time of torture and that is what Me and a Gun is written about. Although it seems to be one of Tori's most heartfelt songs, perhaps the most down to earth and realistic, maybe we underestimated its symbolism. Tori uses a LOT of symbolism in all of her music...they're like little poems with notes attached, that's what all music is. I guess what I'm trying to say is: It's not really any of our business whether tori was raped or not. That is entirely a personal matter...what she is doing with me and a gun is reaching out to us to try and express what she felt, not what happened. If that offends anyone, if anyone thinks that Tori has "lied" to us, then they are mistaken, she's just telling her story. Until next time, Rachel "Maybe I aint used to Maybes smashing in a cold room" -tori amos I like email...write me more often ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #329 *************************************