From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #298 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Thursday, October 23 1997 Volume 02 : Number 298 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Tori Smoking & Drugs while I'm at it... [Quinn024@aol.com] Hear For Mark now in Real audio [Dennis Snelders ] Can anyone send me Siren?? [Nina Miller ] 2 questions... [ButterFliKip ] ¿Here. in my head? [Toiletbag@aol.com] Re: 2 questions... [Nadyne Mielke ] Virgin Megastore ["w4barron" ] Re: Tori and Drugs [Charlie Poole ] Re: 2 questions... ["Mr.Zebraa" ] Re: Virgin Megastore ["Mr.Zebraa" ] Circles and Circles and Circles again because ["Mr.Zebraa" ] Re: 2 questions... [WeirdyBoi@aol.com] Re: 2 questions... [WeirdyBoi@aol.com] MEGA UPDATE IN CIRCLES!! ["Mr.Zebraa" ] Tori, RS, and Madonna Mailing List... ["Giovanni Mantilla" ] tori ["/meade ee" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 02:10:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Quinn024@aol.com Subject: Re: Tori Smoking & Drugs while I'm at it... Hey- I know this topic has been through the wringer worse than any other but for people who doubt Tori's drug use I will give you the few facts as I know them straight from the horses mouth... I live in Denver and I got the oppurtunity to see all 4 Colorado shows on the DDI tour. When she played in Denver (at the Paramount) she introed, what I thought to be Frog On My Toe and still think to be though my Tori knowledge was much weaker at that time and I had none of her B-sides so really what the hell do I know, anyway... She opened a song explain how she wrote the song when she was drunk so it sometimes it doesn't make a whole lot of sense... At the opening night in Boulder Tori compared the air to her mushrooms at home... If you have the Dew Drop Inn Boulder boot, it's on there... So I could quote it if need be... So anyway... Tori herself at two of the shows I've been to has mentioned drug use and drinking so hey... There you go... Peace, NeilQuinn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 09:33:30 +0100 From: Dennis Snelders Subject: Hear For Mark now in Real audio Hi: > Yesterday I bought a bootleg called 'Unplugged in New York '96'. It > has the eight songs that were broadcast on the MTV unplugged show as > well as eight other live tracks, one of which is 'For Mark'. Does > anyone know who Mark is, or when Tori wrote/first performed this > song? >is this the song she wrote for the boy when she was little??? the one >she talks about on the little earthquake video??? >if it is, that would rock..i'd love to hear it! Well, you can hear "For Mark" in Stereo Real Audio at my web site. go to http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/lot/1017/littleamsterdam.html and then to the audio page. I also have that Doughnut Song intro which was talked about earlier, since I have that same bootleg as Nina Miller talked about. Have fun with these sound files and let me know what you think. See ya Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:04:24 -0700 From: Andrew Smith Subject: Tori and Drugs > Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:40:37 -0400 (EDT) > From: Richard Handal > Subject: Re: Tori and Drugs > And *why*, Andy, do you think it's a fair assumption that they were for > Tori to use herself? In light of no one having posted that they ever > recall hearing anything about Tori smoking tobacco in any form (and I know > *I* don't recall ever hearing such a thing--and I've gone to great lengths > to read everything I can get my hands on about her for the past 4 1/2 > years; plus, I've searched nearly the entire archives of RDT from May 6, > 1992 to recent days since this came up 30-some hours ago and found nothing > about Tori ever smoking tobacco), I think it's much more likely that those > Nicorette patches were for a friend of hers. I was making an assumption, yes, but I think it was a fair one. Think of Tori's background - she had a religious upbringing, a much-celebrated sense of rebellion, a lot of her teenage years were spent in bars and clubs, and she spent the majority of her late adolescence in the company of adults without much guidance / supervision from her parents or any other close relatives. Spending her formative years in that way, I'd be surprised if she HADN'T started smoking. I can understand why you're taking this particular stance - you are probably opposed to smoking and you would rather not think of the possibility that Tori used to (or still does) smoke, correct? I feel completely the same way - - when I read that feature in The Face, it spolied my image of her somewhat. but it's an Ostrich mentality that would deny that she probably would have started smoking in her early- to mid-teens, just like the majority of other people that live her sort of life. That said, however, something about that quote strikes me as curious - it states that "the crew are more interested in confirming that Tori's press officer from her English record label has brought over the requested supplies from London". The CREW. In the context of what goes before in the article, Tori is busy doing one thing while the CREW are making sure that the press officer has got the supplies. That would suggest that some or all of what she has brought is for members of the crew, not Tori herself. Of course, they might just be checking to make sure that she's brought the things that they know Tori wants, but there's no way of knowing. Anyway, this is just more speculation. Saying that she did / didn't / does / doesn't can be nothing more than an educated guess, whichever one of us makes it. The only way to find out is directly from Tori, or someone who knows her. Logically, though, I'd be very surprised if she had never smoked. It would certainly be interesting to find out for sure. Andy. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 13:48:44 +0000 From: Nina Miller Subject: Can anyone send me Siren?? Hi all, I can't download Siren, so I was wondering if anyone would mind sending me a copy on tape, maybe along with some other Tori stuff and I could send them a tape with some of my Tori stuff too. I'm in the UK (if you didn't already know by now :), so if anyone's feeling kind-hearted, drop me a line. Nina * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Strange how laughter looks like crying with no sound. Raindrops taste like tears, without the pain. Don't think me unkind Words are hard to find They're only the cheques I've left unsigned From the banks of chaos in my mind * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 11:26:04 -0700 From: ButterFliKip Subject: 2 questions... First of all, does anyone know the bible verse being recited in the background of "god" ?? I've been trying to figure it out but i just can't seem to get it... and 2nd, my entire bookmark file went poof somehow, so could you guys send me the urls to all your pages... and all the other pages again? thanks!! :) namaste kip* - -- "Healing for me is being able to sit next to the butcher and say, 'Yes, I'm sitting next to the butcher now,' instead of saying 'There is no butcher.' Well, there definitely is one!" -Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 11:43:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Toiletbag@aol.com Subject: ¿Here. in my head? hello... i was wondering if anyone knew of a place on the web where i could get a sound clip (preferably real audio or .wav format) of "Here. in my head." if you can help me, please email me... thanks, - -marisa jo. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 13:00:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: 2 questions... On Wed, 22 Oct 1997, ButterFliKip wrote: > First of all, does anyone know the bible verse being recited in the > background of "god" ?? I've been trying to figure it out but i just > can't seem to get it... I can never recall which verse it is. However, the answer to that and other Frequently Asked Questions is on Greghewritesletters's The Online Research Institute (T.O.R.I.). It's URL is http://www.webville.com/~tori > and 2nd, my entire bookmark file went poof somehow, so could you guys > send me the urls to all your pages... and all the other pages again? - -All- the other pages? The last time I did a Yahoo! search on "tori amos", the list was well over 100! However, here are the resources that I usually look to: The abovementioned T.O.R.I. A Dent... tori.by.net Bootleg discography: www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/alley/4370/tabdnew.html /nad *************************************************************************** * Nadyne Mielke, CS majour, Southern Tech, Marietta, GA * * * * "I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of * * oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate * * commerce. " -- J. Edgar Hoover * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 17:15:18 -0400 From: "w4barron" Subject: Virgin Megastore Calling All Toriphiles: Ok, so I live avout an hour and a half from Disney World, Home of the Virgin Megastore (located in Downtown Disney). I went there with my family and my dad was feeling generous enough to give me a $25 budget (I'm only 14, ok?). So, I head straight to the singles section, with the faintest glimmer of hope that they would have some of her singles, and you know what? THEY HAD MANY OF THEM!!! They had Hey Jupiter, Professional Widow, Talula, SATY Live for the RAINN tour, Cornflake Girl....and they even had a YKTR cd (ya...bet I had you fooled). I got Crucify, Hey Jupiter, and Sleater-Kinney's Dig Me Out. And let me say, the dakota version is soooo much better than the original. And the Merry Widow version of Professional Widow is pretty awsome, too. Anyhoo...if you happen to be in the Orland area...check this place out!!! Not only did they have Tori singles...but many books about her as well. Just make sure you leave a little left for me!! Sorry for the long post!!! Jessica ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:17:01 -0500 (EST) From: Charlie Poole Subject: Re: Tori and Drugs Hi Andrew, On Wed, 22 Oct 1997, Andrew Smith wrote: [previous discussion snipped] > I was making an assumption, yes, but I think it was a fair one. Hardly a fair one or an informed one. > Think of Tori's background - she had a religious upbringing, True. > a much-celebrated sense of rebellion, Also true, but that doesn't imply that she threw away everything she was taught. Tori certainly doesn't seem to me to have been a rebel for rebellion's sake alone. > a lot of her teenage years were spent in bars and clubs, With the presence of her father. > and she spent the majority of her late adolescence in the company of adults > without much guidance / supervision from her parents or any other close > relatives. Spending her formative years in that way, I'd be surprised if she > HADN'T started smoking. I have no idea of whether Tori has ever smoked or not, nor do I care, but I find these statements ludicrous. Please quote your sources for these assertions. Tori has stated many time that she and her father are very close; they just agree to disagree. Her father has control of the copyrights to her songs which indicates to me that she certainly hasn't turned her back on him or on the rest of her family. Both of her parents have attended her concerts. Her father has stated that he knew that he would totally loose his daughter if he forbade her taking advantage of the outlets for her musical expressions which were available to her at that time. This minister (normally a rather close-minded lot in my experience) was open-minded and understanding enough to accompany his daughter while she played in clubs. These were primarily gay clubs in addition. To me that shows a lot more than simple tolerance from Tori's father. It show me that he is a very wise man. Therefore what leads you to the assumptions that: 1) Tori "spent the majority of her late adolescence in the company of adults," 2) "without much guidance / supervision from her parents or any other close relatives," 3) and if both of these statements are true why do you assume that the adults in whose company she was failed to give her any guidance or supervision? Sheesh! [rest of comments irrelevent and snipped] In Tori, Charlie - -- +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | C.W. Poole | "Charlie" | cpoole@indiana.edu | +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | To me happiness, true happiness is when you can really dance | | with sad. --Tori Amos | | I have spent a lifetime learning how to cry. --Janis Ian | *----------------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:37:33 -0500 From: "Mr.Zebraa" Subject: Re: 2 questions... At 11:26 AM 10/22/97 -0700, you wrote: >First of all, does anyone know the bible verse being recited in the >background of "god" ?? I've been trying to figure it out but i just >can't seem to get it... > >and 2nd, my entire bookmark file went poof somehow, so could you guys >send me the urls to all your pages... and all the other pages again? > >thanks!! :) >namaste >kip* >-- > "Healing for me is being able to sit next to the > butcher and say, 'Yes, I'm sitting next to the > butcher now,' instead of saying 'There is no > butcher.' Well, there definitely is one!" > -Tori Amos Give not gods strength unto women, or gods ways for that power is which destroyeth kings Circles: http://www.geocities.com/paris/metro/6346/tori2.htm The Dent: http://www.aye.net/~mikewhy/toriamos.html A frog named Jethro: http://www.taco.net/~dominic/ If this helps then you are very welcome!!! Mr.Zebraa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:41:16 -0500 From: "Mr.Zebraa" Subject: Re: Virgin Megastore At 05:15 PM 10/22/97 -0400, you wrote: >Calling All Toriphiles: > >Ok, so I live avout an hour and a half from Disney World, Home of the >Virgin Megastore (located in Downtown Disney). I went there with my family >and my dad was feeling generous enough to give me a $25 budget (I'm only >14, ok?). > >So, I head straight to the singles section, with the faintest glimmer of >hope that they would have some of her singles, and you know what? THEY HAD >MANY OF THEM!!! They had Hey Jupiter, Professional Widow, Talula, SATY Live >for the RAINN tour, Cornflake Girl....and they even had a YKTR cd (ya...bet >I had you fooled). > >I got Crucify, Hey Jupiter, and Sleater-Kinney's Dig Me Out. And let me >say, the dakota version is soooo much better than the original. And the >Merry Widow version of Professional Widow is pretty awsome, too. > >Anyhoo...if you happen to be in the Orland area...check this place out!!! >Not only did they have Tori singles...but many books about her as well. >Just make sure you leave a little left for me!! > >Sorry for the long post!!! > >Jessica Cool, I have never met a girl Toriphile that is my age!!!! neat-o mr.zebraa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:47:12 -0500 From: "Mr.Zebraa" Subject: Circles and Circles and Circles again because PLEASE GO SPIN IN THE CIRCLES OF TORI AT: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/6346/tori2.htm *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~**~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~**~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ~When she has left, you and me ~ * alone on the floor your * ~ counting my feathers, ~ * as the bells tolled. ~tori~ * *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~**~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~**~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 18:37:00 -0400 (EDT) From: ChinaDust@aol.com Subject: Re: Tori and Drugs (i hate to grind this into the floor any further, but i felt i needed to say a few things) >> I was making an assumption, yes, but I think it was a fair one. >Hardly a fair one or an informed one. I felt it was quite thoughtful and reasonably educated, although Andrew didn't know the full details of Tori's playing-in-gay-bars period. >> Think of Tori's background - she had a religious upbringing, >True. >> a much-celebrated sense of rebellion, >Also true, but that doesn't imply that she threw away everything she was taught. Tori certainly doesn't seem to me to have been a rebel for rebellion's sake alone. I agree; Tori is just too intelligent and respectable for that kind of thinking, but simply smoking isn't exactly "everything she was taught," and she was quite an angry and restrained child. >I have no idea of whether Tori has ever smoked or not, nor do I care, but I >find these statements ludicrous. Please quote your sources for these >assertions. Tori has stated many time that she and her father are very >close; they just agree to disagree. Her father has control of the >copyrights to her songs which indicates to me that she certainly hasn't >turned her back on him or on the rest of her family. Both of her parents >have attended her concerts. Her father has stated that he knew that he >would totally loose his daughter if he forbade her taking advantage of the >outlets for her musical expressions which were available to her at that >time. This minister (normally a rather close-minded lot in my experience) >was open-minded and understanding enough to accompany his daughter while >she played in clubs. These were primarily gay clubs in addition. To me >that shows a lot more than simple tolerance from Tori's father. It show me >that he is a very wise man. Therefore what leads you to the assumptions >that: <<1) Tori "spent the majority of her late adolescence in the company of adults," 2) "without much guidance / supervision from her parents or any other close relatives," 3) and if both of these statements are true why do you assume that the adults in whose company she was failed to give her any guidance or supervision? Sheesh!>> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 10:21:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Dogg <01schris@jasper.uor.edu> Subject: Re: 2 questions... > First of all, does anyone know the bible verse being recited in the > background of "god" ?? I've been trying to figure it out but i just > can't seem to get it... "Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways unto that which destroyth kings." - Proverbs 30:3 Scotty - -------------------------------- http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/5014/madfigs.html "I've found the secret to life... I'm OK when everything is not OK" - -Tori Amos, "Upside Down" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:46:10 -0400 (EDT) From: WeirdyBoi@aol.com Subject: Re: 2 questions... In a message dated 97-10-22 18:15:17 EDT, cvest@memphisonline.com writes: << Give not gods strength unto women, or gods ways for that power is which destroyeth kings >> This is a misquote. The actual Bible quote, and what Tori says in the song "God" is: "Give not thy strength unto women nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings." Proverbs 31:3 Please let's try to stop this horrible flow of incorrect information. http://members.aol.com/WeirdyBoi/Toriphoria.html - -j'ason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:56:12 -0400 (EDT) From: WeirdyBoi@aol.com Subject: Re: 2 questions... In a message dated 97-10-22 19:36:25 EDT, 01schris@jasper.uor.edu writes: << > First of all, does anyone know the bible verse being recited in the > background of "god" ?? I've been trying to figure it out but i just > can't seem to get it... "Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways unto that which destroyth kings." - Proverbs 30:3 Scotty >> Come on now, people, don't answer questions unless you know the answer. The Bible verse is Proverbs 31:3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:05:31 -0500 From: "Mr.Zebraa" Subject: MEGA UPDATE IN CIRCLES!! ATTENTION!!!! I HAVE UPDATED MY CIRCLES PAGE A WHOLE WHOLE BUNCH. PLEASE GO CHECK IT OUT!!!! http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/6346/tori2.htm PLEASE REMEMBER TO FILL OU THE SURVEY AND THE QUESTION OF THE DAY ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 19:28:16 PDT From: "Giovanni Mantilla" Subject: Tori, RS, and Madonna Mailing List... Hi there: i am also on the Madonna Mailing list and there's an on-going discussion about the new Rolling Stone cover (with Tina Turner, Madonna and COURTNEY LOVE on it) and about why Courtney Love is there... this is what a friend Madonna fan named GORDON had to say about it: Someone i don't remember wrote... >> Courtney definitely deserves a place on the cover, as the female rocker of >> the 90s.   No one else deserves it more: not Mariah, Janet, or Alanis. And then Gordon replied... >No, but how about someone more alternative than those slushies?  >Someone who has actually produced more than ONE album (4) in the >decade and someone who has had a moderate amount of commercial >success >but who has a TREMENDOUS cult following because she inspires >(predominantly) teenage girls and young women to save and resurrect >their lives: >TORI AMOS.  Tori deserved the cover much more than Courtney.  The >difference is that Tori wasn't married to Curt Kobain, Tori isn't a >drug addict, Tori isn't an actress, Tori hasn't had any plastic >surgery, Tori doesn't act like an ass on national television, and >Tori >doesn't give bizarre interviews.  She just writes, arranges, >produces, >etc. excellent, signature, innovative, and revolutionary music that >inspires millions and has created a host of imitators.  Oh and she's >also set up a national organization to help rape victims.  Ah but >she's not funny at award shows and doesn't have obnoxious shit to >say, >so who cares right? >Let's face it people, Rolling Stone acted like a pretty sexist >magazine when it made its choices.  The women it chose, while >successful, are also sexy, glamorous, controversial, and have been >the >VICTIMS of crimes, personal tragedies, or media-sanctioned >nationwide >disgust.  Art is not the issue here.  The so-called "rock and roll >lifestyle" is.  If it were art that Rolling Stone cares about, maybe >we'd have someone like Tori Amos, Patti Smith, or Joni Mitchell on >the >cover.  Or maybe that Cabala-loving nutcase Madonna.  Oh, wait, >she's >already there. :-) >G O R D O N **the discussion kept going...** This is what Joe had to say about GORDON's message... >> >> No, but how about someone more alternative than those slushies?  >So quantity is an issue too... >> Someone who has actually produced more than ONE album (4) in the >> decade and someone who has had a moderate amount of commercial success    ^^^^ >Bing bing bing!!! You point out exactly why it's Courtney, not >Tori... Tori's following is less mainstream and less well >publicized... read perceived less mass appeal.  No cover for the >Cornflake >Girl. >> but who has a TREMENDOUS cult following because she inspires >> (predominantly) teenage girls and young women to save and >resurrect >What about Courtney?  Yeah, you too can overcome a heroin >addiction... >> >> TORI AMOS.  Tori deserved the cover much more than Courtney.  The >> difference is that Tori wasn't married to Curt Kobain, Tori isn't >>a >> drug addict, Tori isn't an actress, Tori hasn't had any plastic >> surgery, Tori doesn't act like an ass on national television, and >>Tori >> doesn't give bizarre interviews.  She just writes, arranges, >produces, >> etc. excellent, signature, innovative, and revolutionary music that >> inspires millions and has created a host of imitators.  Oh and she's >> also set up a national organization to help rape victims.  Ah but >> she's not funny at award shows and doesn't have obnoxious shit to say, >Right.  See above. >> >>Let's face it people, Rolling Stone was either sexist or just >> business-oriented when it made its choices.  The women it chose, while >> successful and worthy, are also sexy, glamorous, controversial, and >> have been the VICTIMS of crimes, personal tragedies, or >> media-sanctioned nationwide disgust.  Art is not the issue here.  The >> so-called "rock and roll lifestyle" is.  If it were art that Rolling >> Stone cares about, maybe we'd have someone like Tori Amos, Patti >> Smith, or Joni Mitchell on the cover.  Or maybe that Cabala-loving >I don't doubt that there's a business decision factor involved.  >Rolling >Stone isn't a charity, they're here to make money, right?  Let the >musicians worry about art.  >I think the key fact here is that they are >controversial, while I'd say Tori is less so.  Yeah, she's been a >victim >too as she reminds us in every album.  But she hasn't broken >barriers, IMO.  Spawning clones is not breaking barriers.  She's >written >some teriffic music and is an amazing performer, no doubt about >that.  But >it's the controversy which the other artists have generated which >makes >them stand apart, because it is only through controversy that we can >question the way things have been, and only by questioning can >things ever >change. >Joe **and then GORDON replied again...** >> >       No, but how about someone more alternative than those> slushies? >> >> So quantity is an issue too... >Absolutely.  How can it not be?  The issue is to commemorate THIRTY >YEARS: QUANTITY.  The cover ladies should reflect that, as it is the >entire purpose for the issue. >> > Someone who has actually produced more than ONE album (4) in the >> > decade and someone who has had a moderate amount of commercial >success >>                            ^^^^ >> Bing bing bing!!! You point out exactly why it's Courtney, not >> Tori... Tori's following is less mainstream and less well >> publicized... read perceived less mass appeal.  No cover for the Cornflake >> Girl. >I understand why it's Courtney.  I'm just saying why there is a >>>(very >strong) better choice. >> > but who has a TREMENDOUS cult following because she inspires >> > (predominantly) teenage girls and young women to save and >resurrect >> >> What about Courtney?  Yeah, you too can overcome a heroin >addiction... >Maybe I wouldn't have started taking heroin in the first place.... >But that's just an annoying thing about society in general.  You >don't get respect for forethought, for choosing the right path and >for >fighting to stay that way: you get respect for fucking up and then >noticing you're all fucked up and then getting up-fucked-up.  The >point, I think, should be that you allowed yourself to get all >fucked >up, not that you managed to recover, and those who did the right >thing, against big odds, all along, should be the ones who get >noticed. >> > Let's face it people, Rolling Stone was either sexist or just >> > business-oriented when it made its choices.  The women it chose, >while >> > successful and worthy, are also sexy, glamorous, controversial, >and >> > have been the VICTIMS of crimes, personal tragedies, or >> > media-sanctioned nationwide disgust.  Art is not the issue >here.  The >> > so-called "rock and roll lifestyle" is.  If it were art that >Rolling >> > Stone cares about, maybe we'd have someone like Tori Amos, Patti >> > Smith, or Joni Mitchell on the cover.  Or maybe that Cabala->loving >> >> I don't doubt that there's a business decision factor involved.  >Rolling >> Stone isn't a charity, they're here to make money, right?  Let the >> musicians worry about art. >So then if we know it's a business decision, why do we all think >it's >such a big deal, and why do we believe Rolling Stone when they tell >us >who's been the most influential? >> I think the key fact here is that they are >> controversial, while I'd say Tori is less so. >I agree.  And it's pathetic. >>  Yeah, she's been a victim >> too as she reminds us in every album.  But she hasn't broken >> barriers, IMO.  Spawning clones is not breaking barriers.  She's >written >> some teriffic music and is an amazing performer, no doubt about >that.  But >> it's the controversy which the other artists have generated which >makes >> them stand apart, because it is only through controversy that we >can >> question the way things have been, and only by questioning can >things ever >> change. >Anyone with half a brain who listens to any Tori Amos song comes out >of it with questions, questions, questions, questions.  Tori Amos >not >only makes us question (and, BTW, she has sold MILLIONS of more >albums >than Hole has so you can argue too that Tori is more well-known) our >world but she actually DOES tangible things (RAINN) that have helped >people, and we know that because there are facts and statistics >about >how many people have been helped.  Tina Turner inspired a movie >about >her life and has brought huge attention to the issue of domestic >violence.  I don't think I need to argue about Madonna.  What has >Courtney done?  I can't think of anything, except "LIVE THROUGH >THIS", >and no matter how great anyone thinks that is, it shouldn't alone >allow her to share the company of M and TT, especially when there >are >such worthy women waiting in the wings. >Regardless, I guess I have realized something through this >discussion, and that is that art, influential music, good deeds, the >most incredible performances, and a persona and existence that has >literally saved young people from suicide are not really what counts >in terms of things like the Rolling Stone cover: it is CONTROVERSY >in >the mass media that counts.  So the fact that Courtney Love has >underachieved when compared with the other two cover girls and with >other female performers like Tori Amos is irrelevant, and the >relevant >thing is who idiots on the street like to know gossip about the >most.  >Pathetic. >G O R D O N **and finally, for now at least** this is what i had to say... >Nice piece of writing you did there Gordon... I do believe the >glorious Tori Amos deserves her place on that cover if it's really >about recognizing true art...  but I'm not mad because of this,  >it's not that I care much about Rolling Stone (even though i am very >glad Mo's in the cover, she sure deserves it too! )... they're >usually a bunch of assholes... did anyone read what they had to say >about Fiona Apple's speech at the MTV awards? >well, I did, and I do believe that no one deserves to be treated in >such a demeaning and destructive way they did with Fiona.  it was >truly horrible.    >just in case anyone wants to read it... go to Rolling Stone and do a >search under "Fiona Apple".. i guess you'll find it.... I'll keep you posted... Giovanni Mantilla *********************  CORNFLAKE CITY>>>> My Tribute To Tori Amos http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Lounge/1826/main.html   Giovanni's ARTIST CENTRAL http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Lounge/1826/personal.html **********************    "Me and Jesus a few years back, Used to hang and He said, "It's your choice, babe, just remember,  I don't think you'll be back three days time, so you choose well." "   ToRi AmOs,    "Me And A Gun"   *************************** ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 21:41:33 -0700 From: rain Subject: got my rape hat on but i always could accessorize hullo im sure many of you have read and heard tori talking about and referring to the book "possesing the secret of joy" by alice walker well i just read it today and i just thought id mention that the book is really really amazing and i really recomment it.im buying a copy tomorrow. i just thought it might give you a little more insight to what tori is talking about in her music and otherwise... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~rain~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 20:58:35 PDT From: "/meade ee" Subject: tori has anyone ever heard of the bio on tori by jim stapleton? I have access to a copy of it (or multiple copies of it, if you are interested) for 7.99 (possibly cheaper, plus shipping if need be) - but I've never heard of it before. any info would be appreciated! there are a few pictures of tori I would really like to get my hands on as well, mainly from the boot disc 'fairy tales'. if you have any of them, or know where/if they're scanned onto the net, please let me know? /meade ********************************************* he says he rekons i'm a watercolour stain he says i run and then i run from him and then i run he didn't see me watching from the aeroplane he wiped a tear and then he threw away our apple seed tori ** father lucifer http://toriamos.home.ml.org ********************************************* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #298 *************************************