From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #206 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Thursday, July 31 1997 Volume 02 : Number 206 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: tori vs. fiona ["Lanna Chidester" ] Re: tori vs. fiona ["Lanna Chidester" ] tori vs fiona ["w4barron" ] Re: tori vs. fiona [Richard Handal ] Re: this pic... [Michael Curry ] Re: instrumental tori [Jennifer Gerbi ] ori vs. fiona ["Nicolas Lukaszewicz" ] More Tori contextualization [Richard Handal ] Re: this pic... [DeadPetlz@aol.com] Re: Minimalism & Tori (was re: precious-things-digest V2 #204) [DeadPetlz] Fiona and Tori ["Jacob" ] Tori wins in my opinion [Lu101@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:00:48 PDT From: "Lanna Chidester" Subject: Re: tori vs. fiona >i think it's ridiculous that this would even be a topic, but i shouldn't be >surprised because that's what is wrong with every other mailing list i am >on.. Tori is Tori and Fiona is okay, that's just my opinion > >-mr37 > I couldnt agree more... this is silly and a bit pointless... just my opinion Lanna/gemenai ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:09:13 PDT From: "Lanna Chidester" Subject: Re: tori vs. fiona >i think it's ridiculous that this would even be a topic, but i shouldn't be >surprised because that's what is wrong with every other mailing list i am >on.. Tori is Tori and Fiona is okay, that's just my opinion > >-mr37 > I couldnt agree more... this is silly and a bit pointless... just my opinion Lanna/gemenai ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:02:27 -0400 From: "w4barron" Subject: tori vs fiona The ONLY similarity between Fiona and Tori is that their music is piano based. Fiona has a more jazzy sound. Personally, I prefer Tori to little Fiona. Tori's piano playing has a much more sincere sound. Jess ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:49:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: tori vs. fiona Lanna said of the Tori and Fiona thread: > this is silly and a bit pointless... Umm, okay. To recap: someone suggested that people here might like Fiona's album, someone seconded the thought, and then folks have been calmly discussing the music of both artists. There's been no nastiness against Fiona, no name-calling when anyone might have disagreed with the stated opinion of another, and somebody even mentioned that Fiona was on Unplugged last night--and I was grateful for that because I had wanted to check it out and forgot it was scheduled to be on last night until they reminded me. And you think it's "silly and a bit pointless" because...? What am I missing, here? The discussion certainly falls well within the stated concept of this list as I understand it. Now, I think the subject line saying "vs." is a bit simplified, and in my mind, this has not been a debate as such, but a discussion. I think some huge argument along the lines of "Tori could kick Fiona's butt" would be silly, and *more* than a bit pointless. This is not happening, though. ???? Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 19:36:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Michael Curry Subject: Re: this pic... Do *NOT* send graphic files to the list! Mike, the annoyed list co-owner guy | Michael Curry / mcurry@io.com / mcurry@compuserve.com | | http://www.io.com/~mcurry | | Am I bitter? Do I sound bitter? -- Veda Hille | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:13:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Jennifer Gerbi Subject: Re: instrumental tori On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 AnaisBleu@aol.com wrote: > Today i was listening to "All the girls hate her" and "Over it", and i > realized that i would LOVE to hear more tori instrumentally. . . i think it > might sharpen (for me) my perception of her artistry on the piano, as well as > her emotion. It would definetly add yet another facet to what tori means to > me. . . does anyone know of instrumentals out there, besides Piano Suite and > the instrumntal version of Butterfly? > > --rae > a) I could NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE. I think the suite is my favorite thing musically that she has written. i wanted to ask her why she doens't play it live but I didn't have a chance at chicago to ask her. What is the instrumental version of butterfly? Where can I procure such a thing? (I love that song as well). Occasionally, I have hoped that as tori gets older, she might start to do more instrumental (though, unfortunately, these rumours about touring with a band (UGH) next time, etc, pretty much squelch that.) work. Not just her own, but what she was thrown out of conservatory for- could you IMAGNE, just imagine what it would sound like if tori played, say Ravel, Bartok,etc. I wish she'd throw one of those in sometimes instead of the standard old beatle cover. Not that I don't love the beatles, but I have to say my least favorite stuff that she does are those covers- beatles to me is great in its guitar simplicity, and the piano treatment gunks it up for me. anyway, just agreeing with you :) -j ********************************************** *Jennifer E. Gerbi Grad RA Materials Science* *1-113 ESB * *University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign * *http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~gerbi * ********************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 00:02:22 -0300 From: "Nicolas Lukaszewicz" Subject: ori vs. fiona =20 > I like them both too, but fiona only for her voice. She doesn't play=20 > piano as an art form, like tori- she uses it, occasionally, to accompa= ny > her voice, only.=20 =20 i agreed whit that, i LOVE Fionas album Tidal, but shes not such a great piano player like Tori, she only uses it to accompany and make soft nice melodies. anyway i think Tori and Fiona have many little in common , jus= t the piano! but she ( Fiona) its a great singer and great musician and sh= e is pretty young! and always when a new rock start comes into the light comparisions stars.she has been compared whit Alanis too. i personally i= f you are gonna describe her work you would easily say "shes a mix beetwen tori and alanis" and its now wrong , but that its just to bring an idea = to someone who has never heard her.=20 anyway Tori and Fiona rocks!=20 bye!=20 Nicol=E1s =20 =20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:24:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Handal Subject: More Tori contextualization Chris Semon said: > One of the things I like about her style is that she uses a lot of > incomplete cadences that don't resolve...very Steve Reich in many ways. I never mentioned this publicly before, but did once in private mail to someone on this list. The repeated harpsichord figure in the live arrangement of Sneeze sounds to me *extremely* reminiscent of Steve Reich. Very much like his pieces Drumming and Trains. Repeated figures used as slightly but ever-shifting textures. I'd be most interested to know if Tori is familiar with his work, if it's a coincidence--or what. If anyone's likely to have a chance to ask about a hundred such questions of Tori for me, let me know, and I'll send 'em on. :-) There are lots of things like that which I'd love to be able to ask her. None of the so-called "music journalists" ever ask her such things. Sad. A related observation. I had this epiphany nearly a year ago as I was driving along down the road with a friend of mine. I screamed, and my friend was wondering what was going on. I say the live arrangements of Precious Things that Tori was often doing on the DDI tour were reminiscent of the energy--not the overall musical structure nor the sound, but the *energy*--of portions of Igor Stravinsky's powerful groundbreaking ballet The Rite of Spring. The unsettling piano figures after the long "girrrrrrrl..." in Precious Things reminds me of the kind of edge-of-your-seat internal tension in the part of The Rite of Spring where the orchestra plays repeating notes accentuated by percussive synchopations. It's like a boxing match for me. "Bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-BAH-bum-bum-bum-BAH-bum-bum-bum..." etc. And then at the end of Precious Things, when she would do the "Wash me clean, daddy/darling" part she would sometimes do, *really* going off into screaming sometimes, it would remind me of the energy at the end of The Rite of Spring where Stravinsky brought the energy level up to a fever pitch--and left it there. There is nowhere to go with all that energy, and at the 1913 premiere of the piece, there was a riot after it ended. The way Tori would not resolve the energy at the end of Precious Things much of the time when she performed it on tour last year had a similar effect. The audience would erupt. Powerful stuff she plays with. She was as much a force of nature when she did that as is the Sacrificial Dance portion of the ancient Slavonic spring ritual portrayed by Stravinsky. I would love to be able to discuss such things with other Tori-aware persons--on this list, even. I'm not a trained musician, but my ears can hear, and I'm well familiar with a hell of a lot of different kinds of music. It's frustrating to me not to know enough about all this to discuss classical and related music intelligently and with the proper terminology. I feel as if I won't really understand much of what Tori's doing until I take some serious music theory classes. And I have about a hundred threads saved up from as long as a year ago that I'd like to be able to pick up one day. But where to find the time? And to anyone who wants to complain about Tori being "compared" to Reich and Stravinsky--enjoy yourselves. I see no reason to not discuss musicians in context of one another. No music stands alone--not even Harry Partch. How can one musician be intelligently discussed in a vacuum? I find that quite bizarre. It's all different, and it's still all related, too. Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:55:22 -0400 (EDT) From: DeadPetlz@aol.com Subject: Re: this pic... =D i dunno where it came frum...i think it wuz heaven!!! =) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:49:14 -0400 (EDT) From: DeadPetlz@aol.com Subject: Re: Minimalism & Tori (was re: precious-things-digest V2 #204) In a message dated 97-07-30 16:52:27 EDT, wombats@earthlink.net (Chris Semon) writes: << I know Tori has done other "mini-CDs".... are there any others out there that you guys would emphatically insist that I NEED to get! :) I'm SO psyched about this one! Chris Semon wombats@earthlink.net >> I think that one you should definitely get is cornflake girl. there are only 4 songs but it is well worth it and it usually only costs about $5. ^v^Raven^v^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:00:20 -0400 From: "Jacob" Subject: Fiona and Tori My philosophy tends to be: you can compare aplles and oranges! Just don't expect to come to any sortof conclusion as to which is better. I could start comparing Tori to Metallica or to Underworld and still find similarities and differences. I could compare Tori to Oranges. That's why I hate when people say "you can't compare". Yes you can. I have been into Tori since Under The Pink and have been INTO Tori since Boys For Pele. Fiona's Tidal I picked up with the release of "Sleep to Dream". I'm sure you all know what attracts one to Tori so I'll skip that but what I liked about Tidal is that it is so innocent and honest and at the same time so ethnic. There are (LIKE TORI) tracks with Fiona and a piano and tracks like "Criminal" that sound like there are a thousand instruments playing at once. It's all honest and innocent because she has no musical influences outside of Maya Angelou and a Jazz Songbook in her gran's piano bench. And so you know that this album is kinda before she's tasted everything else. I'm very excited to hear what she does when she has experienced things and other music. Tori is another story, she is magical in that she plays mostly by ear etc, but she's kindof a music vet as opposed to Fiona's innocence. (Playing in bars as a pre-teen and being in a rock band). Tori though can exacute a song accoustic just as easily (without sacrificing ANYTHING) as when she soups it up a bit. (Prof. Widow is an example). As you can tell I'm not a music major and am not going to start comparing chord structures etc. It is true I consider them of different genre's (although I hate having to divie them up that way) but the amount of life and emotion translating into music seems about equal. And to those people who may not like Fiona. Make sure that that isn't the reason you see no similarities and don't flame based on that. That my friends is plain old prejudice. Hey!: Apples and Oranges Fiona and Tori Apples and Amos hehe, .j ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:56:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Lu101@aol.com Subject: Tori wins in my opinion I don't even see how Fiona could be as good as Tori. I like Fiona and everything, I just like Tori's music soo much better. Tori has more in depth meaning to her songs, and I don't know much about Fiona, but from hearing her songs I don't get as moved from her songs like I do from Tori's. I just thought I would put my opinion in since this has been the "main" topic of discussion lately. - - Alexa ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #206 *************************************