From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #86 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Friday, March 28 1997 Volume 02 : Number 086 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: drug consumption ["Mickey Sun" ] Re: Looking for PT digest 30 [Alexander Jay Timin ] Re: drugs again....i know you're all sick of me [RAiSnGhUrL@aol.com] Re: tori's drug consumption [RAiSnGhUrL@aol.com] Re: tori's drug consumption [RAiSnGhUrL@aol.com] Re: Tori, drugs, whatever... [RAiSnGhUrL@aol.com] tear it up [] The drug stuff... [Susan.Kay.Anderson@m.cc.utah.edu (Susan Kay Anderson)] Re: tori's drug consumption [Richard Holmes ] stop the tori and drugs junk! [JOHN GUTTMAN ] Re: Hallucinogens ARE addicting [Richard Holmes ] Tori Interview [dydo ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 97 07:30:54 UT From: "Mickey Sun" Subject: RE: drug consumption Hey Everyone, I seriously do not believe that Tori's a freaking drug addict who is spending every second of her life getting off on Peyote and Iowaska. Alright, so THAT isn't true. Tori use drugs recreationally. I don't think that Tori will be on the waiting list for Betty Ford's (is that where you go if you have a drug problem?) anytime soon. Anyway, at least Tori's not using heroin or crack/cocaine, I don't know if I'm right, but I do not recall hearing about anyone dying from an Iowaska overdose... - -MS- Mickey K. Sun :) Computer and Information Sciences & Mathematics University of California, Santa Cruz And when they said that you were dead... I hung on... - -Heather Nova - -----Original Message----- From: owner-precious-things@smoe.org On Behalf Of Layne Mateuszow Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 1997 9:10 AM To: precious things Subject: drug consumption Tori is not perfect, but drugs consumption does not make her "only human." Drugs are not the human thing to do, they are the stupid thing to do. Does anyone know for sure that Tori has succumbed to drugs? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:04:35 -0500 (EST) From: Alexander Jay Timin Subject: Re: Looking for PT digest 30 I recently found a tori cd called "somewhere over the rainbow". It's a Westwood One collection of rarities, some live, some album cuts, some remixes. However, I can't find a copyright date on it. Anyone know? alex ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:40:20 -0500 (EST) From: Alexander Jay Timin Subject: need info please On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Alexander Jay Timin wrote: > I recently found a tori cd called "somewhere over the rainbow". It's a > Westwood One collection of rarities, some live, some album cuts, some > remixes. However, I can't find a copyright date on it. Anyone know? > > alex I'm sending this again because I forgot to change the subject line...oops. alex ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:05:42 -0500 (EST) From: RAiSnGhUrL@aol.com Subject: Re: drugs again....i know you're all sick of me In a message dated 97-03-27 02:35:06 EST, you write: RoSeS aRe rEd, vIoLeTs aRe BlUe, I aM ScHiTzOpHrEnIc, AnD sO Am I...... LOL Jordan. That was slick. But Tori only uses drugs for inspirational purposes and I don't think she is addicted. That would suck royally. Love, Mary ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:09:14 -0500 (EST) From: RAiSnGhUrL@aol.com Subject: Re: tori's drug consumption See...I am not offended about Charlie's not accepting Christianity. He wsn't disrepectful. He stated his opinion. I am a Christian and I really don't care...it doesn't bother me just like tori's drug consumption doesnt bother me either. So she trips once in awhile....big tickle. Love, Mary ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:16:02 -0500 (EST) From: RAiSnGhUrL@aol.com Subject: Re: tori's drug consumption In a message dated 97-03-27 02:38:14 EST, you write: << She should be because shes a well known person and a lot of people do look her. So like it or not, shes stuck. >> This is bull. She shouldn't be anything. It's a persons fault if they try to imitate her. She's not out there going....."Hey everyone let's all trip!!!" Is she now? Who are you to decide what Tori is or isn't? What are you? Her mom? She's not stuck anywhere....she doesn't force people to follow her. She's only a person who is damn good at making music. She's just a person.....only people know about her. You know there are probably other people just like Tori that no one knows about.....just because she is well known doesn't make her more special than others.....or devine in any way. Give her a break. She isn't God. - -Mary ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:19:22 -0500 (EST) From: RAiSnGhUrL@aol.com Subject: Re: Tori, drugs, whatever... I am willing to give up the fight. I have completed my mission, Mr. Spock. I am now prepared to recieve my next assignment. =))))) Love, mary ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:07:55 CST From: Subject: tear it up Okay, guys . . . Miss Myra has decided to reveal parts of herself honestly and openly to the entire world. This is brave as hell. But, as I adamantly advocate, I do not know Tori Amos. I know her music. I dance in elliptical orbits every time I hear it-often with tears running down my cheeks, neck, and bloo t-shirt. I REALLY appreciate that she has been an honest figure in a world so full of falsities. She was not born with a Mensa sized medulla oblongata for no reason. I believe the choices she makes are her own, and that they are sensible and would do nothing to harm the door she has to the souls of so many, or the power she has to reach hurting people. I know I would throw a huge party if I discovered I could help oodles of people and still do what I love. I don't talk much, but I do hope this will help us to focus on the reason we are here, and the reason we have so much respect for a single human in the first place. I've got to go. My left toe itches a little. kerriloo^ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ "Oh they'll darn your socks and they'll wash your -------, then so your trousers won't bust 'em, yeah" - -tori amos- @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:07:03 -0700 (MST) From: Susan.Kay.Anderson@m.cc.utah.edu (Susan Kay Anderson) Subject: The drug stuff... Ok... maybe we should have just let this die, but I decided to ask a dear Sarah list-friend, Dr. Mike Sugimoto, the medical societies official opinion. Here it is as follows: Susan wrote: >> I thought that you could maybe set the record straight on this information. >> Will you allow me to post a reply to this mailing list quoting you? Dr. Mike replyed: >Sure, provided you pay my $60 consulting fee. :) > >References follow. Kristina wrote: >> >ALL DRUGS ARE NOT ADDICTIVE: >> >these include LSD, marijuana, 'magic' mushrooms, Nitrous, Mescaline... >> >and many >> >others which have no bodily addictive qualities! If someone becomes >> >'addicted' to one of these substances IT IS ONLY IN THEIR MIND! >> > >> >These drugs are bodily addictive and VERY harmful- >> >Crack, Cocaine, Heroin, Rufenol(sp?), some strains of opium... >> > >> >I have seen many heroin and cocaine addicts- their bodies are addicted >> >tioi these drugs- they begin to get sick with out them. >> > >> >I just wanted to clarify this for anyone who doesn't all ready know... Dr. Mike replyed: >And I want to clarify one of the greatest myths of the later 20th century >- everything you've just read, quoted above, is untrue to a certain >degree, some parts more than others. > >There are two general aspects common to most types of drug dependence. The >first, and most important, is a psychologic dependence (addiction) that >"involves feelings of satisfaction and a desire to repeate the >administration of the drug to produce pleasure or to avoid discomfort."[1] >Some drugs create this state of mind faster than others, but chances are >that if you had a good trip, you'll probably want to do it again, whether >you were on heroin, crack, or marijuana. This mental state is perhaps the >most powerful factor involved in chronic use of psychotropic drugs, and in >some cases, it may be the *only* factor involved in the intense craving >and compulsive use. > >The second component is a physical dependence, where the body adapts to >the presence of the drug - tolerance, in other words. There is a need to >increase the dose progressively to get the same effect four years after >you first started. It is important to note that *physical* *dependence* >*does* *not* *accompany* *all* *forms* *of* *drug* *dependence*. Period. >Withdrawl is "characterized by untoward physiologic changes that occur >when the drug is discontinued or when its effect is counteracted by a >specific antagonist."[2] > >All drugs act in some measure on the Central Nervous System. Some, like >Prozac, act by blocking the re-uptake of serotonin, a neurotransmitter in >the brain, to relieve symptoms of depression. Recreational drugs usually >reduce anxiety and tension; produce elation, euphoria, or other mood >changes that are pleasurable to the user, along with feelings of increased >mental and physical ability; generate altered sensory perception; and >cause changes in behaviour. These drugs can be broken down into two >categories - the ones that cause mainly psychic dependence and the ones >that cause both. Which drugs are in what categories may surprise some of >you. > >In the first category are drugs like crack/cocaine, amphetamines, >bromides, marijuana and the hallucinogens, like lysergic acide >diethylamide (LSD), methylene dioxyamphetamine (MDA) and mescaline. This >means 'shrooms too. While you may not find the major stereotypical >abstience syndrome with all of these drogs following withdrawl, some do >cause tolerance and in some cases reactions following withdrawl resemble >abstience syndrome - depression, lethargy, and changes on the >electroencephalogram. (EEG.) > >Opiods and synthetic narcotics cause the highest level of dependenence in >both the psychic and physical categories, and have high potential for >tolerance. Barbiturates, glutethimide, methyprylon, ethchlorvynol, >methaqualon and alcohol all exhibit moderate physical and psychic >dependence, along with mild tolerance characteristics. The anxiolytics, >like diazepam (Valium) and other long-acting drugs in this category are >mainly psychic, but they're as dangerous as booze or methaqualone. >Short-acting anxiolytics have the added benefit of producing physical >dependence. > >Amphetamine and methamphetamine produce psychologic dependence at the same >level as alcohol and all the other drugs previously mentioned, but their >potential for tolerance is way up there, with opiods and synthetic >narcotics - cocaine is basically the same, but with a lower potential for >tolerance. > >And then there are the hallucinogens. They do not create physical >dependence, BUT THAT BY NO MEANS MAKES THEM NON-ADDICTIVE. LSD is as prone >to generating tolerance as cocaine, and while mescaline and peyote are >lower potential and low-does tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) has no effect >whatsoever on tolerance, there's suggestion that high-dose THC may have >some tolerance generating properties. All these drugs produce mild >psychological dependence. [3] > >"But people who smoke pot don't look like crack addicts!" Yeah, well, >there's a reason for that too. These drugs tend towards episodic use >involving relatively small doses that prevent clinical toxicity and the >development of tolerance and physical dependence. It's a "natural" drug, >close to plant origin and containing a mixture of compounds, and are not >isolated psychoactive chemicals. (Crude opium, alcoholic beverages, >marijuana products, coffee and other caffeine-containing beverages, >hallucinogenic mushrooms, and coca leaf.) The drugs are usually taken >orally or inhaled; IV or IM injection of drugs makes them that more potent >because there's no filtering system. Recreational use is often accompanied >by ritualization with a set of observed rules and is seldom practiced >alone - psychostimulants or hallucinogens designed to obtain a "high." You >don't smoke a joint alone unless you're the worst sort of pathetic loser. > >And to add my own clinical experience into this, I've seen people addicted >to just about every kind of drug there is, both in my days as a paramedic >and now as an emergency physician. I've picked people up with enough >whipped cream in their nose to coat a fair-sized wedding cake, and I've >seen marijuana addicts. They're irritable, can't sit still, are unable to >focus, and generally hostile to me, who they see as responsable for their >current predicament. > >Drugs are addictive - every last one of them. The degree, however, depends >on what it is and how it's being used. > > >[1][2][3] Merk Manual, 16/e, p1549-1550, Merck & Co., Inc., 1992. > > >--- >mike sugimoto, md department of emergency medicine >phloem@fumbling.com victoria general hospital >http://www.fumbling.com/phloem/ "what happened?" "plane crash!" There you have it. Case closed about the drugs. About Tori, leave speculations and judgements in the trash can where they belong. Do what you feel is right for you. Love each other. Peace, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 14:51:43 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Holmes Subject: Re: tori's drug consumption karrie@ix.netcom.com (Xena W. Princess) writes: > >I have read several articles where Tori states she uses > >hallucinogens > >strictly for inspirational purposes... now if I could > > just find one of > >those > >articles. At a concert once she taped a shroom to her > >piano supposedly... > > Well I must say, Ive lost a hell of a lot of respect for > Tori. Why would you lose respect for her? It is primarily cultural that we have these taboos against drugs. I myself do not use drugs, but are familiar with both their use/abuse in this society and their legitimate usage in many primitive societies. It appears from the messages thus far that Tori does so on a limited basis, with integrety, and with respect for the power of drugs. It is, however, risky to use drugs in this society -- primarily because the social group you hang out with to obtain them tends to lean towards abusive usage rather than responsible use. I myself have great respect for someone who can use drugs without becoming an abuser. I have seen many people's lives destroyed by drugs -- it takes a strong person to be able to use them the way the ancients intended them to be used in this society. David/Figg writes: > When you transform Tori into a goddess you place a whole > lot of weight on her shoulders. She has a lot to live up > to, and being human, she might not be able to reach the > image of her that you create. Last time I checked, she > didn't have wings. David, I understand what you're saying here. But talking of Goddesses always gets me started... Well, the difference between a Goddess / God in the old world view and of "God" in Christian world view is that Goddesses have many human attributes, in addition to being divine. In fact, many believed that humans could aspire to God/dess-like divinity; many shamanistic cultures viewed the shaman as between God/dess and human. Some current spiritualities (in addition to the doctrine of the Cosmic Christ) state that we are all God/dess or Christ in the becoming... so go figure... @ - Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) @ @ \@/ "...You drink strength from your dark fierce roots @ | and you hang at the sun's own fiery breast @ \|/ and with the green cities of your boughs @ | you shelter and celebrate @ , , | , , woman, with the cauldrons of your energies @ ' ' ' ' ' burning red, burning green." @ - from "The Twelve-Spoked Wheel Flashing" by Marge Piercy @ @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush / Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra @ Laura Love / Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:07:29 -0500 (EST) From: JOHN GUTTMAN Subject: stop the tori and drugs junk! hey everyone, like MANY other people on the list, the talk of tori and drugs is really beginning to upset me when i see that there are like 20 messages a day devouted to this INSANE topic. the one thing that i've noticed is that NUMEROUS people on here are giving their opinions about the topic, but we know what they say about opinions....... I AM A DOCTOR! i spent YEARS in medical school to get my MD, and unlike probably 99.9% of the people on this list, i've had to study drugs and drug addiction, AND i dela with this on a daily basis at the hospital where i work (for professional reasons i will not disclose where i work). i am amazed to see the pure JUNK that people are spreading to others about drugs and addiction on this list (and other tori lists). you people are doing great harm to others who are not well-informed about drugs by passing along misinformation. THERE IS NO KNOWN SUBSTANCE THAT WHEN TAKEN INTO THE HUMAN BODY DOES NOT CAUSE SOME FORM OF SIDE-EFFECT! get back to the purpose of this list, which is to discuss tori news items, and stop misinforming people! john guttman, MD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:32:05 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Holmes Subject: Re: Hallucinogens ARE addicting Layne Mateuszow writes: > If Tori does hallucinogens, then Tori does drugs & ALL > drugs are addictive. I'm not calling Tori an addict, > I'm just stating simple facts. It does depend upon whether you mean physically addicting or psychologically addicting; when speaking of psychological addiction, then you must be prepared to quantify. For example, cocaine is highly psychologically addictive, as are cigarettes. LSD is less so, because not many people *like* to have their minds blown constantly. Computers and Transcendental Meditation are addictive, as is compiance to the obscene power structures of current society. What is your point? It seems people are being polarized by this issue simply because of the highly emotional nature of the word "drug". I have seen people destroy their lives and be killed by drugs, and also have seen people who use drugs make profound, intelligent statements that they would not have had the scope of experience to make without them. Likewise, I have seen people use power in our society (e.g., money, influence) to cause social change, set up foundations for composers, homeless, etc. I've also seen people use it to become Idi Amin, Adolf Hitler, Bill Gates and many other lesser, petty tyrants. Some kill with money, others cure. It is each individual who decides. - -Richard. @ \@/ @ | Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@cs.stanford.edu) @ \|/ @ | "Dream the dark, dance the dawn, live the dream!" @ , , | , , @ ' ' ' ' ' @ Loreena McKennitt / Kate Bush / Tori Amos / Katell Keineg / Happy Rhodes @ Kiva / Kate Price \ Dar Williams / Renaissance \ Sheila Chandra @ Laura Love / Sinead O'Connor / Jane Siberry / Pauline Oliveros @ Sarah McLachlan \ Libana / Danielle Dax \ Dog Faced Hermans ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 17:08:53 -0800 From: dydo Subject: Tori Interview If you like to hear Tori herself talk about the Iowaska, go to this site http://monkey.hooked.net/monkey/m/singing/makers/music.html This is Alex Bennet's web site and he has the entire Tori Interview there in true speech. ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #86 ************************************