From: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org (precious-things-digest) To: precious-things-digest@smoe.org Subject: precious-things-digest V2 #84 Reply-To: precious-things@smoe.org Sender: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-precious-things-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk X-To-Unsubscribe: Send mail to "precious-things-digest-request@smoe.org" X-To-Unsubscribe: with "unsubscribe" as the body. precious-things-digest Wednesday, March 26 1997 Volume 02 : Number 084 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: tori's drug consumption ["Mickey Sun" ] China O'Brien on tape ["Mickey Sun" ] Re: tori's drug consumption [Richard Handal ] drugs etc... [jordan the sentence machine ] drug consumption [Layne Mateuszow ] Hallucinogens ARE addicting [Layne Mateuszow ] Drugs. [Fonty ] Re: tori's drug consumption ["I'll be up with the sun.. I'm not coming do] drugs [NoraG1@aol.com] Tori is still a goddess... [Layne Mateuszow ] Re: Hallucinogens ARE addicting [Delirium ] A Tori/ drug related question [Delirium ] Re: tori's drug consumption [WeirdyBoy@aol.com] Re: tori's drug consumption [WeirdyBoy@aol.com] Looking for PT digest 30 [Erinbest@aol.com] Re: tori's drug consumption [Erinbest@aol.com] drugs and Tori and the like... [Sean Gambrel ] Re: tori's drug consumption [Charlie Poole ] Tori, drugs, whatever... [Layne Mateuszow ] "Tori" and the morality of drug use. [Daisy Dead Petals ] Without You I'm Nothing ["Jacob" ] Re: Looking for PT digest 30 [mr bean jeans ] human behaviour [jordan the sentence machine ] the drug thread [mr bean jeans ] hallucinogens [jordan the sentence machine ] Re: lilith fair [mr bean jeans ] drugs again....i know you're all sick of me [jordan the sentence machine ] Re: Hallucinogens ARE addicting [Charlie Poole ] Re: tori's drug consumption [Charlie Poole ] Re: tori's drug consumption [Charlie Poole ] Re: tori's drug consumption [Michael Curry ] Re: tori's drug consumption [karrie@ix.netcom.com (Xena W. Princess)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 97 05:40:42 UT From: "Mickey Sun" Subject: RE: tori's drug consumption I know that this is sort of a late reply but... Around this time last year, Tori did an interview with Alex Bennet on KITS (Live 105) here in Northern California where she admitted to doing an Amazonian drug called "Iowaska". She stated that she did it for journey experiences ONLY and I sincerely believe her. Personally, I don't do drugs or drink alcohol, however, that doesn't mean that I've been brainwashed by D.A.R.E. and McGruff into believing that drugs are bad. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that drugs can do some serious damage to your body. I made a conscientious choice to not take drugs, just like it was Tori's personal choice to take Iowaska. Mr. Figg said: > 1. Tori Amos is NOT a goddess. She is human. > 2. Tori Amos is NOT a role-model. She is human. > 3. Tori Amos is NOT perfect. She is human. If we cannot accept Tori for who she is, then how can we accept her music for what it is? Doesn't most of us worship Tori for her music? I know that 99.9% of you all can somewhat understand my mumbling (to an extent), but PLEASE don't lose your respect for Tori just because she gets high once in a while. She has given her soul too much for us to lose respect for her. Have a great one. - -MS- Mickey K. Sun :) Computer and Information Sciences & Mathematics University of California, Santa Cruz The spirit lives on when the body dies - -Heather Nova - -----Original Message----- From: owner-precious-things@smoe.org On Behalf Of Daisy Dead Petals Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 1997 4:18 PM To: precious-things@smoe.org Subject: Re: tori's drug consumption > > Well I must say, Ive lost a hell of a lot of respect for Tori. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 97 06:09:03 UT From: "Mickey Sun" Subject: China O'Brien on tape Hey All, I found something interesting at my local Blockbuster's Video about a week ago. It was the video release of "China O'Brien", a movie in which Tori did a song called "Distant Storm". She did it soon after the break up of Y Kant Tori Read, and she used the name of Tess Makes Good(?) for her band. However, I did not rent it because I only had 5 bucks on me at the time and I was going to use that money to see the matinee of the Return of the Jedi SE. My question is this: Has anyone heard this song? Is it worth paying the deposit after the tape mysteriously "disappeared" in my room after renting it? Does anyone have any idea of what I'm talking about? I read about the "Distant Storm" thing on the Tori biography by Kalen Rogers so I'm not all that crazy... - -MS- Mickey K. Sun :) Computer and Information Sciences & Mathematics University of California, Santa Cruz And when they said that you were dead... I hung on... - -Heather Nova ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 02:02:32 -0500 (EST) From: Richard Handal Subject: Re: tori's drug consumption Mickey said: > I know that this is sort of a late reply but... Around this time last > year, Tori did an interview with Alex Bennet on KITS (Live 105) here in > Northern California where she admitted to doing an Amazonian drug called > "Iowaska". Interesting. I was unable to be awake at the ungodly hour of that interview, and I don't recall ever hearing the drug pronounced out loud before. Was the accent on the third syllable? "eye-oh-WAH-ska"? Here's a bit of a primer on it. It's long, but if people are inclined to have complex topics for discussion they need to be aware that everything can't be boiled down into a couple short paragraphs. And Tori is surely nothing if not a complex topic for discussion. :-) Be seeing you, Richard Handal, H.G. <>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<>====<> http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v3n4/brazil.html The Use of Ayahuasca in Brazil by the Santo Daime Religion Rex Beynon, Friends of the Amazon _________________________________________________________________ This year has been a historic one for the Santo Daime doctrine. I returned from Brazil in July of this year where I attended the Earth Summit conference and in this article I am going to report on some developments that received little attention outside of Brazil. In order to put those developments in context, I will first give some background on the Santo Daime doctrine. In the earlier part of this century a seven feet tall black man named Raimundo Irineu Sera was working among the Indians inf the state of Acre (in Brazil), on the border with Bolivia and Peru. During this time he was introduced to the drink known as Ayahuasca, which is translated as "vine of the soul." This drink is a tea made from the vine Banistereopsis Caapi and, generally, also the leaves of the plant Psychotria Viridis. It has been used since ancient times by the native peoples of the region, including the Incas, both as a medicine for healing and as agent for spiritual enlightenment in their religious rituals. During a retreat in the forest, Master Irineu, as he later came to be called, received visions of the Virgin Mary in the form of the Queen of the Forest, who revealed to him a religious doctrine which he was to bring to the world through the specific rituals that he was shown. Gradually master Irineu gathered a group of people around him and started to receive hymns from the astral plane, which became an integral part of the rituals which they practised. The word "Daime," which became the name of the doctrine as well as the drink, comes from these hymns in which the words often occur as a prayer - "Dai-me forca, dai-me amor, dai-me luz," - "Give me strength, give me love, give me light." The doctrine which is revealed in them is a Christian doctrine blended with the native religions, with a profound reverence for Mother Nature, especially the forest, personified as the Virgin Mary. There are several types of ritual. In the "official works," the community will dance for up to 12 hours in a specific formation and rhythm to generate an energy current, with the Daime being drunk several times during the night. In the healing rituals, the participants generally sit around the altar and one or more people are the recipients of the healing. The deeper cause of the illness is often revealed during the work, in a vision which is called a "miracao." The making of the Daime is also done in a ritual called the "feitio" in which the vine and the leaf are cooked together into a tea. It is said that the vine gives the "strength" and the leaf gives the "light" or the capacity for visions. In the past 20 years or so the religion and the use of the tea has spread throughout Brazil, giving rise to churches in many of the major cities. This has occasionally brought persecutions by groups of people who do not understand the practise, trying to confuse the issue by claiming that the tea is simply a drug and should be banned, even though the churches have actually become well known for their work in helping people to effectively overcome alcohol and drug addiction. Fortunately the CONFEN (the Federal Drug Council) has consistently upheld the right of the Daime Church to practice its religion and healing practices using the Daime tea. A study was made of the Daime by the CONFEN in 1987 which included visits to the various churches and observation of the making of the Daime. It also included study of another group of ayahuasca users, who call the drink Vegetal. The work group which made the study included representatives not only of the CONFEN but also of several other government agencies. The conclusion of the study was that the Daime was a very positive influence in the community, encouraging social harmony and personal integration. It was emphasized that, rather than simply considering the pharmacological analysis of the plants, one must consider the whole context of the use of the tea -- religious, social, and cultural. In June of 1992 a definitive decision was made by the CONFEN, putting the matter to rest once and for all, stating that the use of the Daime is perfectly legal. Domingo Bernardo Da Silva, the president of the CONFEN, had visited the community of Mapia, in the state of Amazonas, and taken part in the rituals as part of his study. During the Earth Summit in Rio in June there was a conference on medicinal plants of Amazonia, in which three of the members of the CONFEN, including Domingos Bernardo, took part in a panel and explained their study of the Daime and their conclusions. They had take part in the rituals and showed a great deal of respect for the religious and cultural intolerance and emphasized that there is no evidence of any harmful effects or potential for abuse of ayahuasca. The study was published in a detailed document with many thoughtful insights into the matter. At one point it is stated that "altered states of perception do not necessarily signify a negative or harmful situation" - on the contrary these effects can be channeled for the benefit of society and the individual. As a government document, there are many words of wisdom in this study which deserve serious consideration in this country. At the same time that this occurred another historic even happened when the Daime church was invited to take part in an inter-religious vigil as part of the program at the Global Forum section of the Earth Summit conference. All of the major religions of the world were represented. The Santo Daime, now being considered a major religion in Brazil, had its own tent and 600 people took part in an all-night ritual. The Daime was served and the people took part in the sacred dance, in rhythm to the Daime hymns. To me this official recognition was a fitting tribute for the hundredth anniversary of Master Irineu this year. There will be further celebrations of the centenary in December this year when people will gather in Rio Branco, Acre, from all over the world to celebrate the Master's birthday. The expansion of the Santo Daime doctrine has created a movement also to help the people of Amazonia to protect the rainforest which is the natural habitat of the vine and the leaf used in the Daime. Mapia is, in fact, now the center of a one and a half million acre protected reserve. The ecological work of the people of Mapia is a natural extension of a religion which was born in the rainforest, and is being supported by the United Nations and the non-profit organization Friends of the Amazon Forest in the U.S. There are also moves towards organizing the healing works of the Daime, creating a center which will include not only the traditional healing rituals of the Daime but also include psychotherapy, a clinic, a hospital and birthing center, along with training programs and workshops. The intention is to create a center for consciousness with a complete healing program. Serious scientific research into the properties of Ayahuasca is also welcomed by the community in Brazil. If you would like more information on how to take part in these programs, including retreats in the rainforest, you may contact: Friends Of The Amazon Forest P.O. Box 625 Cambridge, MA, USA, 02140. _________________________________________________________________ MAPS Inc. 1801 Tippah Avenue Charlotte, NC 28205 USA Rick Doblin, President tel: 704-358-9830 fax: 704-358-1650 email: sylvia@maps.org (Sylvia Thyssen, Network Coordinator) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 03:07:55 EST From: jordan the sentence machine Subject: drugs etc... i would never hold it against a person for doing drugs....it's their own choice and i am not about to go off and put it onto religious ceremony, i myself have a lot of native american in me, but i would never justify any drug use (and my drugs of choice are niccotine and caffeine) on religious reasons hallucinogens are NOT addictive, so what if a certain music artist happens to dabble in the chemistry cabinet every once in a while, or habitually, it's their own goddamn right to fuck themselves up as much as they'd like their fans and the media don't have any say in this, no matter how many no smoking signs you put up in my dorm building, i'm still gonna smoke in the stairwell jordan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 97 09:10:00 PST From: Layne Mateuszow Subject: drug consumption Tori is not perfect, but drugs consumption does not make her "only human." Drugs are not the human thing to do, they are the stupid thing to do. Does anyone know for sure that Tori has succumbed to drugs? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 97 09:17:35 PST From: Layne Mateuszow Subject: Hallucinogens ARE addicting If Tori does hallucinogens, then Tori does drugs & ALL drugs are addictive. I'm not calling Tori an addict, I'm just stating simple facts. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:32:55 +0100 From: Fonty Subject: Drugs. Hello. I wonder what all the fuss is about. So, she did a lot of stuff. She smoked pot when she was quite young. That wasn´t very smart. But it was HER choice. It is her life. If she thinks it is okay to take drugs and kill herself if she´s not careful, then it is her choice entirely. I realize though, that she is not using drugs to make it thru her concerts or anything, cos nobody can give performances like she can on drugs. That´s not possible. And she is not encouraging others to smoke and take what she has taken / or is taking still. >> Tori is not perfect, but drugs consumption does not make her >> "only human." Drugs are not the human thing to do, they are >> the stupid thing to do. Yes, but most people are stupid and that´s why they take drugs. And Tori doesn´t take "drugs" like she eats breakfast... >> Does anyone know for sure that Tori has succumbed to drugs? She has said that herself. Certain people are only shocked by the drugs story, because they figured Tori to be a saint and perfect and the role model for everything. Welcome to reality. That´s all. - -- Fonty Online: http://members.aol.com/Fonty/index.htm The Worshipper´s Gateway: http://members.aol.com/FontyMMX/index.htm Chasing Tornadoes - an introduction to Tori Amos: http://wwwstud.uni-giessen.de/~s3045/chasing.htm - ---- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:25:07 +0000 From: "I'll be up with the sun.. I'm not coming dow" Subject: Re: tori's drug consumption > Ya, Space Dog is the result of a mushroom trip, but I really don't think Tori > uses hallucinogens just for the hell of it. (Hmmm... that sounds rather funny > now... but anywho...) > > I have read several articles where Tori states she uses hallucinogens > strictly for inspirational purposes... now if I could just find one of those > articles. At a concert once she taped a shroom to her piano supposedly... Tori's also allured to her use of ecstacy at times, although slightly candidly. It's true she often cites halluginogens as inspirational tools, but let's not forget she also sounds rather pissed on "Toodles Mr. Jim". I rather think all the good artists get out of their box at some point in their lives.. whether it's for the best or not is a ,moot point though. But given Tori's mind for free association no wonder she's a sucker for a trip now and again.. "Tuna, rubber, a little blubber in my igloo".... Paul. "There is an animal inside me..." Paul.Tweedy@durham.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:35:40 -0500 (EST) From: NoraG1@aol.com Subject: drugs for the person who said they lost respect for Tori just because you HEARD that she does drugs, but you don't know if this is true or not, and if she really does drugs you shouldn't lose respect for her. Everyone makes mistakes. Personally I don't care if she uses drugs as long as she keeps putting out the best music in the world. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 97 11:44:49 PST From: Layne Mateuszow Subject: Tori is still a goddess... If we all share Tori as a common ground, then can't we get over our differences & forget about the drug thing? We all have our own hangups & maybe it's time to forget about them. What do you say? Peace everyone? Layne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:42:30 -0500 (EST) From: Delirium Subject: Re: Hallucinogens ARE addicting Just to get a few things straight- ALL DRUGS ARE NOT ADDICTIVE: these include LSD, marijuana, 'magic' mushrooms, Nitrous, Mescaline... and many others which have no bodily addictive qualities! If someone becomes 'addicted' to one of these substances IT IS ONLY IN THEIR MIND! These drugs are bodily addictive and VERY harmful- Crack, Cocaine, Heroin, Rufenol(sp?), some strains of opium... I have seen many heroin and cocaine addicts- their bodies are addicted tioi these drugs- they begin to get sick with out them. I just wanted to clarify this for anyone who doesn't all ready know... Also, Tori's drug use is documented, as she is not ashamed of it... nor should be... its a personal choice... O Kristina On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Layne Mateuszow wrote: > If Tori does hallucinogens, then Tori does drugs & ALL drugs > are addictive. I'm not calling Tori an addict, I'm just stating > simple facts. > > "But God never listens to what I say... and you won't get a refund if you over pray..." -Trey Anastasio "God some times you just don't come through, Do you need a woman to look after you?" -Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:46:23 -0500 (EST) From: Delirium Subject: A Tori/ drug related question Has anyone used drugs at a Tori concert? I am most interested in any psycadelic tori experiences... Later, K "But God never listens to what I say... and you won't get a refund if you over pray..." -Trey Anastasio "God some times you just don't come through, Do you need a woman to look after you?" -Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:55:37 -0500 (EST) From: WeirdyBoy@aol.com Subject: Re: tori's drug consumption but Tori IS a role-model, silly... a human role-model ok. - -Weirdy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:03:51 -0500 (EST) From: WeirdyBoy@aol.com Subject: Re: tori's drug consumption There's nothing wrong with using drugs for inspirational purposes, especially hallucinogens. If I recall correctly (and i usually do), Tori said Space Dog was written while tripping on peyote, which is used in many Western Indian religious thingies. She saw these weird cave paintings and those also inspired the song. And, there was a painting of a dog with a feather on its head on a wall in the Hacienda where Under the Pink was recorded. Anyway, i'm straying from the drug topic... Tori has a strong connection to Native American tradition, etc, and so I can see why she'd see nothing wrong with such natural drugs as Mushrooms, Peyote, and Marijuana, all of which she has confessed to using. And why not experiment with these things to take your mind to another place? Or just for fun :) Anyway, it's a personal decision Tori made to use whatever and she still and always will have my respect. I think it's very shallow for anyone to lose respect for Tori because of her personal choices. eek....i really wanna have a tantrum here, but i'm staying very calm..ok, that's all, bye.... -WeirdyBoy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 13:30:23 -0500 (EST) From: Erinbest@aol.com Subject: Looking for PT digest 30 Hey Everyone, I was trying to find the thread from awhile back when we were talking about Horses and stuff, and most of that discussion appears to be in V2 #30. Does anyone happen to have that? I would be SOOO happy if someone would send that issue to me, the whole discussion was really very interesting. Thanks!!! ~*~Erin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:27:23 -0500 (EST) From: Erinbest@aol.com Subject: Re: tori's drug consumption About this whole drug issue... I sort of have problem with the "Don't judge someone if they use drugs...." thing. I mean if you don't use drugs, and think that doing so is mistreating your body and mind, then I find it hard to not let that effect the way you choose to see people who make those decisions. So if you think that drugs are bad things and you should NEVER use them, then you have less respect for Tori for using them. I think Tori's drug choices are okay though. I really like the fact that she has no shame about her choices. She thinks her drug habits are fine and will defend her actions. If she tried to cover it up it would be disappionting. My main problem with drugs are when people use them to not deal with reality permanently. When I read Brave New World (anyone read that) I remember thinking how soma was like pot. Just take a hit when ever it isn't convient to deal with something and you stop caring. However, I think it is safe to say that isn't the case with Tori. Otherwise she would never would have found half her songs (SATY, MAAG, well pretty much all of her stuff) because she would have just been high instead and she wouldn't have cared. (<-----run on!!!) Okay...my point, Tori is okay with her drugs. I just hope she doesn't use anything that is hard or addictive. That would really scare me. Erin~*~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:56:24 -0500 From: Sean Gambrel Subject: drugs and Tori and the like... Hi. I'm new. First, I don't think that anyone really views Tori as a God or anything. Sure she's a role model, and I don't think it's too irrational that someone is bummed out to find out that she uses drugs to inspire herself. I was. I always thought that it came from her heart, not her mind, or something like that. I don't know. I'm just saying that I don't think people are deify-ing Tori, they are just admiring her like we all do. second, I would like to say that anything that triggers "Dopamine" to be released from your pituitary(?) gland is and will be addictive. It is not that your body becomes addicted to chemicals in the actual drug, it becomes addicted to the dopamine which your 'brain' releases when stimulated by THC (marijuana), etc... ANYTHING, any chemical, any emotion, any action that triggers the release of Dopamine is addictive. That is why things like sex and masterbation when done in excess can become addictive. thanks for hearing me out. **Sean** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:38:31 -0500 (EST) From: Charlie Poole Subject: Re: tori's drug consumption On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Xena W. Princess wrote: > Well I must say, Ive lost a hell of a lot of respect for Tori. > > ~Xena Pompous, egotistical, self-serving, judgemental ass! Yeah, I know this is the kettle calling the pot... - -- +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | C.W. Poole | "Charlie" | cpoole@indiana.edu | +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | To me happiness, true happiness is when you can really dance | | with sad. --Tori Amos | | I have spent a lifetime learning how to cry. --Janis Ian | *----------------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 97 17:23:30 PST From: Layne Mateuszow Subject: Tori, drugs, whatever... O.K. Now people are starting to get a little overbearing with this whole drug thing. I understand where people are coming from with the whole, "If Tori does drugs, then that's her choice" thing, but what about Xena Princess? If Xena has lost respect for Tori because of the whole drug thing, then isn't that her choice too? I mean let's be fair. I thought that my little note about putting our differences aside would get to some of you, but I guess from the looks of this e-mail, it hasn't. Seems a little ridiculous, don't you think? Why don't we all focus on what we do have in common & the whole reason for precious things... Tori? Let's face it, we'll never reach a common ground with this whole drug thing. Some of us think drugs and anyone who does them are stupid & others think drugs and anyone who does them are cool. If these are our opinions, there is no changing them & we are entitled to them, that's why they're called opinions. Does anyone see my point? I hope so, I really do. Layne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:22:31 -0500 From: Daisy Dead Petals Subject: "Tori" and the morality of drug use. Ok, I have about a million people mailing me. I dunno if you guys think I said something *bad* that you didn't like or you just think you should personally let me know what you think. As indicated in the subject line, I think this whole thread on drugs is straying away from the concept of *gasp* another artist using drugs, or whether we consider drug use condonable or not. *I* know what *my* stand is on drug use, I apply that same theory on the people around me. I will not share my ideas now because I believe it to be irrelevant and have chosen not to shuv my ideas down your throats. *NOW* Back to Tori... *pause* I dont have any quotes to share with you or articles or any other factual based Tori stuff right here. I think you guys need to make up your mind on everything. Why don't you guys that are stressing out over this sit down and decide what your views are concerning drug use and Tori. I really consider this an important topic and I don't think your views should be swayed by peoples opinions around here. So, during math class or the drive into work tomorrow, try thinking about this a little bit. Collect your thoughts. I'm sorry if any of this has come out rude sounding, but what I have been saying I mean in all seriousness. Good luck. ~Kimmy "Racing turtles the grapefruit is winning..." -T. Amos ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 97 17:40:36 PST From: Layne Mateuszow Subject: lilith fair Hey everyone!! I heard some bad news that Tori isn't going to be at the Lilith Fair this summer. Bummer! Has anyone ever been to the Lilith Fair? Is there some special way to get tickets? I know this may be a dumb question, but I've never been to it & I haven't really heard all that much about it before. All I know is that Sarah McLachlan will be there & that's enough for me to want to see it. I appreciate any help! Layne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:09:07 -0500 From: "Jacob" Subject: Without You I'm Nothing I am looking for the soundtrack to what is probobly my fave movie, 'Without You I'm Nothing'. It's the film adaptation of Sandra Bernhards off-broadway show. It's a great movie and the soundtrack would (I Think) consist mainly of her singind/speaking. I am posting here because I know that Tori sings backup on Princes 'Little Red Corvette' on the soundtrack, so you guys would be likely to know where I can get it. (Although I am a big Tori fan and have been on this list for quite awhile so far). If you have access to purchasing it, on CD (preferably) or Tape, or if you have a copy you would tape for me, please e-mail me. I would pay for everything (shipping, etc.). Please, please, please, .j PS: the catalogue number is: Enigma 73369 CD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 17:58:49 -0500 From: mr bean jeans Subject: Re: Looking for PT digest 30 also sprach Erinbest@aol.com: >I was trying to find the thread from awhile back when we were talking about >Horses and stuff, and most of that discussion appears to be in V2 #30. all of the old precious-things digests are available on the web. point your favorite browser to to find them. note, the first 12 digests are not available since they are just mike and i making sure the list was working right and arguing about the list's charter. ;) woj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:12:16 EST From: jordan the sentence machine Subject: human behaviour 26 march - Layne wrote: >If we all share Tori as a common ground, then can't we get over our >differences & forget about the drug thing? We all have our own >hangups & maybe it's time to forget about them. What do you say? i don't think it's personal differences on the stance of drugs, i think that it's the reaction that they had to the knowledge that one of their idols and role models (and yes, she is a role model...she's done incredibly well for herself, and is a strong individual) and inspirations dabbled in something a little beyond their moral schemas as i've said before, my drugs are niccotine and caffeine, and i have never dabbled in any form of illegal drugs....but i know people who have, i am dating a boy who used to use heroin, among other drugs and as for those who said that hallucinogens are addictive because they are drugs, here's some documented sources for you: - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- addiction - 1: the quality or state of being addicted (~ to reading) 2: compulsive physiological need for a habit-forming drug (as heroin) - compare HABITUATION habituation - 1: the act or process of making habitual or accustomed 2 a: tolerance to the effects of a drug acquired through continued use b: psychologic dependence on a drug after a period of use - compare ADDICTION 3: decrease in responsiveness upon repeated exposure to a stimulus - ----merriam webster's ninth collegiate dictionary------------------------------- hallucinogens niether build up tolerance nor create habituation....so therefore, they cannot be considered to be addictive...they are drugs in the fact that they alter a person's conscious state of reality, but they are NOT addictive BUT - what i want to know is, what are the drug references in Mr Zebra, i'm blind... jordan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:03:13 -0500 From: mr bean jeans Subject: the drug thread also sprach Layne Mateuszow : >I thought that my little note about putting our differences aside would >get to some of you, but I guess from the looks of this e-mail, it hasn't. ah, but from differences come discussion. that said, this thread has been handled pretty well so far, with respect to the guidelines mike and i set forth for the list. just to keep it from spiraling off the deep-end, i'll clarify though: to the extent that posts discuss tori and drugs (which *does* include torifan's reaction to this, far as i'm concerned), things are cool. it is when the subject of the discussion becomes drugs, in and of themselves, that the line in the sand has been crossed. woj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:15:15 EST From: jordan the sentence machine Subject: hallucinogens also...yeah, addiciton is a physiological phenomenon, meaning that they body NEEDs a certain substance in order to continue along its normal course, because the addict's body chemistry has formed itself to operate normally when the certain drug/chemical is not present which is why i'm one tired bitch if i haven't had either coffee or a cigarette by noon jordan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:17:46 -0500 From: mr bean jeans Subject: Re: lilith fair also sprach Layne Mateuszow : >Hey everyone!! I heard some bad news that Tori isn't going to be at the >Lilith Fair this summer. Bummer! well, tori's participation in this summer's lilith faire was mostly speculation anyways. still is, as i understand it -- according to the lilith fair website ...though they do not say she isn't, either. >Has anyone ever been to the Lilith >Fair? Is there some special way to get tickets? four lilith fair shows were held last year; i think some folks here made it to at least one of them (being on the east coast, i wasn't able to). this summer's shows will be taking place in july and august and i'm sure tickets will be available from all the usual outlets (ticketmaster, etc.) when dates and venues are announced. the web site also indicates that some tickets will be made available directly from the organizers, though no information about that is given yet. woj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:22:49 EST From: jordan the sentence machine Subject: drugs again....i know you're all sick of me 26 march - Sean wrote: >ANYTHING, any chemical, any emotion, any action that triggers the release of >Dopamine is addictive. so schizophrenia and parkinson's disease are addictive? well that explains why they stick around for so damn long jordan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:41:19 -0500 (EST) From: Charlie Poole Subject: Re: Hallucinogens ARE addicting On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Layne Mateuszow wrote: > If Tori does hallucinogens, then Tori does drugs & ALL drugs > are addictive. I'm not calling Tori an addict, I'm just stating > simple facts. ALL drugs are addictive? Where on earth (or elsewhere) did you get that outlandish idea? Your belief that you are stating a "simple fact" only belies your ignorance. Penicillin is addictive? Asprin? What about psilocybin: a hallucinogenic indole C12H17N2O4P obtained from a fungus (Psilocybe mexicana). Perhaps you think mescaline is also addictive: a hallucinatory crystalline alkaloid C11H17NO3 that is the chief active principle in mescal buttons. What are the sources of your information? - -- +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | C.W. Poole | "Charlie" | cpoole@indiana.edu | +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | To me happiness, true happiness is when you can really dance | | with sad. --Tori Amos | | I have spent a lifetime learning how to cry. --Janis Ian | *----------------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:46:13 -0500 (EST) From: Charlie Poole Subject: Re: tori's drug consumption On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 WeirdyBoy@aol.com wrote: > but Tori IS a role-model, silly... > a human role-model > ok. Finally an intelligent voice crying out in the wasteland. Tori is an oh so beautiful, very human goddess role-model. In Tori, Charlie - -- +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | C.W. Poole | "Charlie" | cpoole@indiana.edu | +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | To me happiness, true happiness is when you can really dance | | with sad. --Tori Amos | | I have spent a lifetime learning how to cry. --Janis Ian | *----------------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:54:19 -0500 (EST) From: Charlie Poole Subject: Re: tori's drug consumption On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 Erinbest@aol.com wrote: > So if you think that drugs are > bad things and you should NEVER use them, then you have less respect for Tori > for using them. Let me see if I have this logic understood correctly. I think christianity is a bad thing therefore I should have less respect for anyone who is a christian. Or not respect them because they are a christian? Or not respect their choice to be a christian? Bzzzzzt! Wrong answer. I respect your choice and will respect you even if I disagree with your choice. When you stop respecting me I may choose to disrespect you. > My main problem with drugs are when people use them to not deal with reality > permanently. My problem with religions is when people use them they do not deal with reality. Nuff said. > Okay...my point, Tori is okay with her drugs. I just hope she doesn't use > anything that is hard or addictive. That would really scare me. Scared for whom, Tori or yourself? In Tori, Charlie - -- +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | C.W. Poole | "Charlie" | cpoole@indiana.edu | +-------------------+-----------------+--------------------------+ | To me happiness, true happiness is when you can really dance | | with sad. --Tori Amos | | I have spent a lifetime learning how to cry. --Janis Ian | *----------------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 18:13:53 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Curry Subject: Re: tori's drug consumption On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Charlie Poole wrote: > Pompous, egotistical, self-serving, judgemental ass! Yeah, I know this > is the kettle calling the pot... Flaming other list members is completely unacceptable, no matter how much you disagree with something they wrote. Clear? Mike | Michael Curry / mcurry@io.com / mcurry@compuserve.com | | http://www.io.com/~mcurry | | Am I bitter? Do I sound bitter? -- Veda Hille | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:09:30 -0600 (CST) From: karrie@ix.netcom.com (Xena W. Princess) Subject: Re: tori's drug consumption You wrote: > >Xena W. Princess wrote: >> > [snipped stuff about Tori & drugs] >> Well I must say, Ive lost a hell of a lot of respect for Tori. >> > >Okay folks, this is where I think a lot of toriphiles make a mistake, >right away. If you place Tori on a pedastal, and discover that she's >just like you and me, and capable of the same faults (i.e. >hallucinogens, margaritas) as us "normal humans," you become >disillusioned and lose respect for her. Shes no like me. I for one am straight edge. And I haven't put her on a pedestal, just overestimated her talents. There is a difference between being perfect and being stupid. >1. Tori Amos is NOT a goddess. I never said she was. >2. Tori Amos is NOT a role-model. She is human. She should be because shes a well known person and a lot of people do look her. So like it or not, shes stuck. >3. Tori Amos is NOT perfect. She is human. I know that, but doing drugs has nothing to do with being perfect, its just plain stupidity. >When you transform Tori into a goddess you place a whole lot of weight >on her shoulders. She has a lot to live up to, and being human, she >might not be able to reach the image of her that you create. Last time I >checked, she didn't have wings. Also, like i said, i never said she was a goddess. ~Xena ------------------------------ End of precious-things-digest V2 #84 ************************************