From: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org (oztori-digest) To: oztori-digest@smoe.org Subject: oztori-digest V7 #16 Reply-To: oztori@smoe.org Sender: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oztori-digest Tuesday, June 3 2008 Volume 07 : Number 016 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [oztori] tori leaves epic [Matt Bowtell ] Re: [oztori] tori leaves epic ["Ruby So" ] RE: [oztori] tori leaves epic [Holly Williamson ] RE: [oztori] tori leaves epic [Brian Cooper ] RE: [oztori] tori leaves epic ["bburkin@iinet.net.au" ] Re: [oztori] tori leaves epic ["Maureen Reedy" Subject: RE: [oztori] tori leaves epic Can i just freak out too about what someone said about more piano stuff? If going independent means going back to Beekeeper era vocals and going on and on and on without editing, i would LOVE a piano only album. Even if that other stuff didn't happen, it'll still be amazing. Matt> _________________________________________________________________> Never miss another e-mail with Hotmail on your mobile.> http://www.livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=343869 _________________________________________________________________ Never miss another e-mail with Hotmail on your mobile. http://www.livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=343869 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 18:47:44 +1000 From: "Ruby So" Subject: Re: [oztori] tori leaves epic > She needs to lock 'husband' out of the studio, work with some new people, take on some other's opinions somehow i get the feeling that she's not that good at working with new people. the fact that she didn't want to do joint gigs with others, and that we haven't seen much change in the production team. hmm. > i would LOVE a piano only album i'd just pray for NOT having another teenage hustling. i was fine with it first, then it really started to irritate me the more i listen to the album. good to see some activities in oztori again. r. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 21:12:09 +1000 From: Holly Williamson Subject: RE: [oztori] tori leaves epic Yes, it's funny - when I first heard Teenage Hustling, I rocked out... in fact, when I heard the entirety of ADP I rocked out. But after a few weeks I was bored. It's the only CD of Tori's that I haven't listened to on staunch repetition for at least 3 months before finally feeling like I should give the rest of the world a bit of a go... and then having to wean myself off it while trying to allow the rest of the world back in. Tori just needs to go back to some basics of writing a good album - not necessarily the 'basics' in terms of LE or UtP, but just the basics of what it is to produce a really top quality, well-thought-out, finely crafted album. Three epic 'sonic journeys' in a row with endless track upon track of essentially filler (though I think Scarlet's Walk was most certainly warranted in its length and entirety... it's TBK and ADP that have let the team down) is fun at first... but in the end, both TBK and ADP left me severely wanting. And longing for the good old craftmanship that Tori used to be so very talented at not failing on. Even if Tori didn't want to take on other people's opinions, maybe she would benefit from revisiting the old art of self-editing. Every professional has to keep up their training lest they fall behind - Tori might find her fans more likely to continue to speak highly of her if she went back and re-visited tools of the trade on how to be self-critical of her work. And on that - I agree. She shouldn't be aiming to win over new fans or 'the kids'. The saying goes that it's easier to keep 10 faithful and repetitive customer than it is to win over 1 new customer. Tori would probably be better off doing more research and paying closer attention to what her fans are telling her. AFter all, we're the ones who will continue to pay for whatever she releases... and fortnuately for her, even if after another 20 years she's releasing albums that go for 985 minutes (who knows what's around the corner?) and writing books with invisible ink, I'd still spend money on her. That's dedication, and hopefully she continues to appreciate it. Holly. And yes - how good is it to catch up on Tori with the peeps what care?? _________________________________________________________________ Never miss another e-mail with Hotmail on your mobile. http://www.livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=343869 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2008 22:40:47 +1000 From: Brian Cooper Subject: RE: [oztori] tori leaves epic How did I know Mark "Nathan" Holden was going to say what he did? I'm not so sure though that leaving out the rhythm section is the key. Many of the tracks of the first few albums had full arrangements. Personally I'd like to see the death of the Rhodes as it sounds too much like elevator music. I'd even suggest Mark is fine where he is as he probably has very little say in the overall sound of an album. I'm still sticking with my suggestion of an outside producer, just to keep Tori's meanderings honest. Holly wrote: >Tori would probably be better >off doing more research and paying closer attention to what her fans are >telling her. AFter all, we're the ones who will continue to pay for whatever >she releases... and fortnuately for her, even if after another 20 years she's >releasing albums that go for 985 minutes (who knows what's around the >corner?) and writing books with invisible ink, I'd still spend money on her. I think this is the crux of the matter. Even though she may turn out a series of stinkers of albums, the fans will still buy them. Hell, I still do and all I can do each time is wonder why. I think it's in the hope that one day something will grab me again. It's much as you described in your 10:1 customer analogy. But I've long since gone to greener pastures and Tori's music is no longer a passion to me, just a warm, fuzzy memory. On leaving Epic, I don't think she had it bad there. Her albums were promoted well, but they weren't selling as well over time. She's big enough of an act to make a living out of it doing the whole label thing herself, but in the end she'll still need to strike a deal with a major label for distribution. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 09:24:07 +0800 From: "bburkin@iinet.net.au" Subject: RE: [oztori] tori leaves epic I'm hoping for another TVAB - more far out sounds, like glory of the 80's, one of my most fave tori songs in the entire world. I played ADP on repeat for about 3 months then got a bit tired of it - HOWEVER - it was not as utterly, utterly shit as TBK. I am a BK BASHER. A couple of songs were good but oh my god self indulgent crap fest much? Of course, despite my bashing, I played it way more than other artists because it is still Tori and I love Tori. I think ADP was way better live - botox, wigs and all - reminded me of Hedwig & the Angry Inch. I met Tori got stuff signed (still high). LOVE the bootlegs ... love them love them - so much better live. Glad Tori has gone independent, wondered why she didn't do it ages ago - but would like to see some more collaboration. Also happy for the Rhodes to die. B ... is for Bevan. On Mon Jun 2 20:40 , Brian Cooper sent: How did I know Mark "Nathan" Holden was going to say what he did? I'm not so sure though that leaving out the rhythm section is the key. Many of the tracks of the first few albums had full arrangements. Personally I'd like to see the death of the Rhodes as it sounds too much like elevator music. I'd even suggest Mark is fine where he is as he probably has very little say in the overall sound of an album. I'm still sticking with my suggestion of an outside producer, just to keep Tori's meanderings honest. Holly wrote: >Tori would probably be better >off doing more research and paying closer attention to what her fans are >telling her. AFter all, we're the ones who will continue to pay for whatever >she releases... and fortnuately for her, even if after another 20 years she's >releasing albums that go for 985 minutes (who knows what's around the >corner?) and writing books with invisible ink, I'd still spend money on her. I think this is the crux of the matter. Even though she may turn out a series of stinkers of albums, the fans will still buy them. Hell, I still do and all I can do each time is wonder why. I think it's in the hope that one day something will grab me again. It's much as you described in your 10:1 customer analogy. But I've long since gone to greener pastures and Tori's music is no longer a passion to me, just a warm, fuzzy memory. On leaving Epic, I don't think she had it bad there. Her albums were promoted well, but they weren't selling as well over time. She's big enough of an act to make a living out of it doing the whole label thing herself, but in the end she'll still need to strike a deal with a major label for distribution. Brian ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 11:49:22 +1000 From: "Rebecca Appleton" Subject: Re: [oztori] tori leaves epic Yah, TBK was a big ol' pile of shite, huh. While I also have to admit to having not listened to ADP much, relatively speaking (that said, I don't listen to anything as constantly and devotedly as I used to, so maybe that's just me, too), I found it a gazillion times better than TBK. ie, I actually liked stuff on it without having to TRY! ;-) Going independent doesn't seem likely to yield much tourage, though, no? But then was she planning on taking a break now for kiddy reasons, wasn't she? Maybe that's why now's a good time to do it rather than before. Becc On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 11:24 AM, bburkin@iinet.net.au wrote: > I'm hoping for another TVAB - more far out sounds, like glory of the > 80's, one of my most fave tori songs in the entire world. > > I played ADP on repeat for about 3 months then got a bit tired of it - > HOWEVER - it was not as utterly, utterly shit as TBK. I am a BK BASHER. > A couple of songs were good but oh my god self indulgent crap fest much? > Of course, despite my bashing, I played it way more than other artists > because it is still Tori and I love Tori. > > I think ADP was way better live - botox, wigs and all - reminded me of > Hedwig & the Angry Inch. I met Tori got stuff signed (still high). > > LOVE the bootlegs ... love them love them - so much better live. > > Glad Tori has gone independent, wondered why she didn't do it ages ago - > but would like to see some more collaboration. > > Also happy for the Rhodes to die. > > B ... is for Bevan. > > On Mon Jun 2 20:40 , Brian Cooper sent: > > How did I know Mark "Nathan" Holden was going to say what he did? > > I'm not so sure though that leaving out the rhythm section is the > key. Many > of the tracks of the first few albums had full arrangements. > Personally I'd > like to see the death of the Rhodes as it sounds too much like > elevator > music. I'd even suggest Mark is fine where he is as he probably has > very > little say in the overall sound of an album. I'm still sticking with > my > suggestion of an outside producer, just to keep Tori's meanderings > honest. > > Holly wrote: > >Tori would probably be better > >off doing more research and paying closer attention to what her fans > are > >telling her. AFter all, we're the ones who will continue to pay for > whatever > >she releases... and fortnuately for her, even if after another 20 > years she's > >releasing albums that go for 985 minutes (who knows what's around > the > >corner?) and writing books with invisible ink, I'd still spend money > on her. > > I think this is the crux of the matter. Even though she may turn out > a > series of stinkers of albums, the fans will still buy them. Hell, I > still > do and all I can do each time is wonder why. I think it's in the hope > that > one day something will grab me again. It's much as you described in > your > 10:1 customer analogy. But I've long since gone to greener pastures > and > Tori's music is no longer a passion to me, just a warm, fuzzy memory. > > On leaving Epic, I don't think she had it bad there. Her albums were > promoted well, but they weren't selling as well over time. She's big > enough > of an act to make a living out of it doing the whole label thing > herself, > but in the end she'll still need to strike a deal with a major label > for > distribution. > > Brian > ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:27:47 +1000 From: "Maureen Reedy" Subject: Re: [oztori] tori leaves epic That's what I was worried about with her going independent - no more tours - ever!! Well no more Australian tours ever anyway. I'm a fan of Aimee Mann, and I'm sure never going to get the chance to see her live in Australia any time soon. She tours the US regularly though. So really no different to the 10 years of no Tori in Australia from 95-04. Maureen >>> "Rebecca Appleton" 3/06/2008 >>> Yah, TBK was a big ol' pile of shite, huh. While I also have to admit to having not listened to ADP much, relatively speaking (that said, I don't listen to anything as constantly and devotedly as I used to, so maybe that's just me, too), I found it a gazillion times better than TBK. ie, I actually liked stuff on it without having to TRY! ;-) Going independent doesn't seem likely to yield much tourage, though, no? But then was she planning on taking a break now for kiddy reasons, wasn't she? Maybe that's why now's a good time to do it rather than before. Becc On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 11:24 AM, bburkin@iinet.net.au wrote: > I'm hoping for another TVAB - more far out sounds, like glory of the > 80's, one of my most fave tori songs in the entire world. > > I played ADP on repeat for about 3 months then got a bit tired of it - > HOWEVER - it was not as utterly, utterly shit as TBK. I am a BK BASHER. > A couple of songs were good but oh my god self indulgent crap fest much? > Of course, despite my bashing, I played it way more than other artists > because it is still Tori and I love Tori. > > I think ADP was way better live - botox, wigs and all - reminded me of > Hedwig & the Angry Inch. I met Tori got stuff signed (still high). > > LOVE the bootlegs ... love them love them - so much better live. > > Glad Tori has gone independent, wondered why she didn't do it ages ago - > but would like to see some more collaboration. > > Also happy for the Rhodes to die. > > B ... is for Bevan. > > On Mon Jun 2 20:40 , Brian Cooper sent: > > How did I know Mark "Nathan" Holden was going to say what he did? > > I'm not so sure though that leaving out the rhythm section is the > key. Many > of the tracks of the first few albums had full arrangements. > Personally I'd > like to see the death of the Rhodes as it sounds too much like > elevator > music. I'd even suggest Mark is fine where he is as he probably has > very > little say in the overall sound of an album. I'm still sticking with > my > suggestion of an outside producer, just to keep Tori's meanderings > honest. > > Holly wrote: > >Tori would probably be better > >off doing more research and paying closer attention to what her fans > are > >telling her. AFter all, we're the ones who will continue to pay for > whatever > >she releases... and fortnuately for her, even if after another 20 > years she's > >releasing albums that go for 985 minutes (who knows what's around > the > >corner?) and writing books with invisible ink, I'd still spend money > on her. > > I think this is the crux of the matter. Even though she may turn out > a > series of stinkers of albums, the fans will still buy them. Hell, I > still > do and all I can do each time is wonder why. I think it's in the hope > that > one day something will grab me again. It's much as you described in > your > 10:1 customer analogy. But I've long since gone to greener pastures > and > Tori's music is no longer a passion to me, just a warm, fuzzy memory. > > On leaving Epic, I don't think she had it bad there. Her albums were > promoted well, but they weren't selling as well over time. She's big > enough > of an act to make a living out of it doing the whole label thing > herself, > but in the end she'll still need to strike a deal with a major label > for > distribution. > > Brian > ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 20:55:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Nathan Subject: RE: [oztori] tori leaves (if Neil makes her a tree) - epic! Brian Cooper wrote: > How did I know Mark "Nathan" Holden was going to > say what he did? :eek: > arrangements. Personally I'd > like to see the death of the Rhodes as it sounds too much > like elevator > music. Oh definitely. It's Snoozeville. > I'd even suggest Mark is fine where he is as he > probably has very > little say in the overall sound of an album. Do the terms 'more sonic space' and 'less cliched victim songs' mean anything to you? > I think this is the crux of the matter. Even though she may > turn out a > series of stinkers of albums, the fans will still buy them. I got The Beekeeper with a voucher, and A Piano and ADP as gifts... so I didn't have to waste my own $ on them. The previously unreleased 90s songs + ASF demo + Take Me With You on A Piano were nice though. > On leaving Epic, I don't think she had it bad there. > Her albums were promoted well :blink: I hope she is done her 'political' songs is all I can say. N ------------------------------ End of oztori-digest V7 #16 ***************************