From: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org (oztori-digest) To: oztori-digest@smoe.org Subject: oztori-digest V5 #104 Reply-To: oztori@smoe.org Sender: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oztori-digest Monday, August 15 2005 Volume 05 : Number 104 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [oztori] Re: Bootlegs [smetcalf@imap.cc] [oztori] boy your boots can leave a mess [Nathan R ] Re: [oztori] lick my boot...legs [Rebecca Appleton ] Re: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire [Nathan R Subject: [oztori] boy your boots can leave a mess Julian P wrote: > Tori's decision to start giving us fans the kinds of > products we want ...like an actual decent album? ;) > (first the offical bootlegs and soon the Rhino > 2 disc album remasters with oodles of bonus material > a la Elvis Costello *drool*). Don't believe everything Alex on @forumz says. Rhino had a Shakespears Sister "Essentials" scheduled in 2002, and it was even available to 'order' on various sites such as amazon (and I believe is still listed), but never eventuated [although has since been made obsolete by a Warner Best of last year]. > Some of this is rumour, but it comes from the same > source within Tori's management Tori has management? n. All the cops in the donut shops say Whey-oh whey-oh whey-ee-oh ooh-whey-oh Walk like an Egyptian http://www.geocities.com/ifyouwant75/susanna.jpg - ------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:56:02 +1000 (EST) From: Julian P Subject: Re: [oztori] boy your boots can leave a mess Nugz: > > Don't believe everything Alex on @forumz says. > Rhino > had a Shakespears Sister "Essentials" scheduled in > 2002, and it was even available to 'order' on > various > sites such as amazon (and I believe is still > listed), > but never eventuated [although has since been made > obsolete by a Warner Best of last year]. > It wasn't Alex, although he too is an EC fan (but I know about the EC reissue CDs because I, well, OWN them). Someone else mentioned it was happening after the official bootlegs ... the fact that the official bootlegs are now announced adds strength to the rumour. Frankly, I can't see why Warners wouldn't milk the Tori well dry ... there's plenty of proof that we'll buy anything. (SLG was her most horrid album, but how many fans own 5 copies of it!?!) Yahoo! Photos: Now with unlimited storage http://au.photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 10:51:51 -0700 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Fwd: [oztori] lick my boot...legs and I sent this to Nathan instead of the whole list, too, 'cause I'm too dumb to work my mail program properly ... Begin forwarded message: > From: Nadyne Mielke > Date: 14 August 2005 10:28:15 GMT-07:00 > To: Nathan R > Subject: Re: [oztori] lick my boot...legs > > > Just to throw this into the mix, this is one thing that Tori said > about feminism to Little Blue World: > > "The [feminist] movement is always going to die when the women > themselves are turning on other women saying, if you become a > mother then you've betrayed feminism. I can't agree with that and I > didn't agree with that then, because in certain militant views, I > just rolled my eyes at it and said you all are becoming like the > Patriarchy, it's no different, but it's just you're pointing your > finger at a different sect of women. You know, the Patriarchy has > pointed their finger at us and if we're pointing our finger and > saying, "But if you're not like us then you're not an emancipated > woman"...well, what is that? Then we're using the same kind of > tactics that the Patriarchy has done and it divides us instead of > saying, "You know what, we can embrace you." Because you don't need > to change another human being when you're whole. You don't need to > say you can't be part of our club unless... No, you say the door's > open. We're strong enough in ourselves to receive you. If you're a > right-wing woman that's against this, that, and the other, have a > seat, have a cup of tea, we'll serve you." > > /nm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 10:52:13 -0700 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: [oztori] putting the boot(leg) on the other foot ... On 13 Aug 2005, at 23:28, Julian P wrote: [snip] > Besides, now that commercial singles are out of the > question, she needs something else to sell in the > interim to keep us keen and talking. Commercial singles were never sold in the interim. They're only released when the album is fresh and when she's touring. It's not like she suddenly dumped a commercial single to market when she wasn't doing anything else. [snip] > Besides, > these are live recordings, so it's not like she's been > toiling away in the studio for them That's an interesting question: how much work did she put into them? TVaB was a heavily-edited and -mixed monster of a live album. She's so anal about releasing something that sounds right, that doesn't have any sort of errors in the performance. She wouldn't even release a real live version of 'Sugar', instead selecting a soundcheck version! But that was then, so perhaps in the intervening years she has loosened her standards enough to let a (relatively) unaltered live version go out the door. > I'd agree with this point a little more if not for the > fact that fans have been begging for these things for > years (me included). While that's true, live albums never account for much in the way of sales. Live albums of any sort don't sell as well as studio albums. You bring up Pearl Jam's official boots, but they released 72 bootlegs of their 2000 tour, and they only sold about a million copies of them combined. [snip] > Finally, I don't LIKE the Tori fan bootleg community. > It's clique-y and rude and holier than thou and it > fails to live up to its purported community spirit. > I'm happy to deal straight with Mrs Hawley thank you > very much. I want to get snippy about this (as listmistress of tori-boot), but ... well, honestly, I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know if the bootleg community has gotten clique-y. My little corner of it hasn't, but then my little corner consists of me, and a clique of one isn't so much a clique as it is pathetic. ;) I administrate the list and I contribute stuff when asked, but I'm not really up-to-date on what's going on and so on. So I really don't know whether what you're saying is true or not. /nm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 10:51:30 -0700 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Fwd: [oztori] Re: Bootlegs oops, I originally didn't send this to the list ... Begin forwarded message: > From: Nadyne Mielke > Date: 14 August 2005 10:40:15 GMT-07:00 > To: smetcalf@imap.cc > Subject: Re: [oztori] Re: Bootlegs > > > On 14 Aug 2005, at 2:39, smetcalf@imap.cc wrote: > > >> So what's the chance we'll get one of these bootlegs from any of the >> Aussie shows??? I personally think the first Sydney show is a good >> candidate, but there's only one person on this list (I'm aware of) >> that >> can give an authoratative viewpoint on the matter! (initials JP)! :-P >> > > Several of the Australian shows are available for download at > . I just glanced over there and found > the following: > * 07 May 2005, Sydney > * 12 May 2005, Melbourne > * 15 May 2005, Perth > > woj is working on tracking the other Melbourne show, so it should > be available on toritraders within a week or so. I seem to recall > that there are a couple of other shows in circulation too, maybe on > dime . > > /nm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 11:39:05 +1000 From: Rebecca Appleton Subject: Re: [oztori] lick my boot...legs On 8/15/05, Nadyne Mielke wrote: > and I sent this to Nathan instead of the whole list, too, 'cause I'm > too dumb to work my mail program properly ... Don't worry, discerning between 'reply' and 'reply to all' buttons is something I had a bit of a struggle with in the same thread. ;-) > > Just to throw this into the mix, this is one thing that Tori said > > about feminism to Little Blue World: > > > > "The [feminist] movement is always going to die when the women > > themselves are turning on other women saying, if you become a > > mother then you've betrayed feminism... See, I guess my only difficulty here is where I don't see the relevance. Could you explain, maybe? What does the issue of bootlegs have to do with becoming a mother? Aside from that, I'm mostly agreed with her in this quote, although all this "the Patriarchy" guff makes me groan a little. I assume she's being ironic? "Ooooh, The Patriarchy!" I was just saying that, from a perspective that understands feminism to be against the hierarchisation of people, which is endemic in gender but also in all the other binaries that equate to it (though if you want to say feminism cares only about women, it's just as apt to argue that women have been the financially worse-off of the 'two' for a good long while), turning something that was about fans making their own recordings into an industry doesn't seem to me to gel. I'm not wanting to change anyone, merely saying that if artists don't value things towards which I want to move, I don't really have any business with them, get it? Sure, I could serve a right-wing woman a cup of tea; doesn't mean I'd hear anything I haven't already heard out of having a conversation about gender, though -- it wouldn't help me in *my* journey. Becc ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:39:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Nathan R Subject: Re: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire Nadyne Mielke wrote: > Just to throw this into the mix, this is one thing > that Tori said > about feminism to Little Blue World: > > "The [feminist] movement is always going to die when > the women > themselves are turning on other women saying, if you > become a mother > then you've betrayed feminism. I can't agree with > that and I didn't > agree with that then, because in certain militant > views, I just > rolled my eyes at it and said you all are becoming > like the Patriarchy, *snip* At that point I stop reading. Hasn't *she* given in to 'the Patriarchy' with her surgery/botox etc? Walk the talk, woman. > She's so anal about releasing something that sounds > right, that doesn't have any sort of errors in the > performance. People keep saying this, but I don't buy it for a second given how lousy much of her officially-released live material is (helloooooo WTSF) compared to what she is (was?) capable of. Speck: > Aside from that, I'm mostly agreed with her in this > quote, although all this "the Patriarchy" guff makes > me groan a little. Ooooh Nayth & Speck agree again! Shall we book the room already? n. Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 12:55:03 +1000 From: Rebecca Appleton Subject: Re: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire > Ooooh Nayth & Speck agree again! It's scary. > Shall we book the > room already? As long as you don't get any imaginative ideas about the torture equipment hanging off that far wall: where that and you are concerned, I'm suddenly feeling a lot more of a traditionalist. ;) Becc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 10:56:11 +0800 From: "Emma Willson \(TE GEO\)" Subject: RE: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire Tori had plastic surgery!? What the crap! Somebody had better fill me in. This email may contain personal, confidential or legally privileged information including information subject to privacy legislation. Any confidentiality or privilege is not waived because this email may have been sent to the wrong address. If you have received it in error, please let us know by reply email, delete it and destroy any copies. You should only read, transmit or distribute the email if you are authorised to do so. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 13:07:40 +1000 From: "Matt Bowtell" Subject: RE: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire There is no evidence she's REALLY had plastic surgery, apart from the fact her skin is looking a bit insane in places.. nathan's just jumped on the bOTOX wagon because he's.. what do youc all it? when you shove the blame onto someone else cuz you feel guilty ourself? matt :P >From: "Emma Willson (TE GEO)" >To: >Subject: RE: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire >Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 10:56:11 +0800 > >Tori had plastic surgery!? What the crap! > >Somebody had better fill me in. > > > > > >This email may contain personal, confidential or legally privileged >information including information subject to privacy legislation. Any >confidentiality or privilege is not waived because this email may have been >sent to the wrong address. > >If you have received it in error, please let us know by reply email, delete >it and destroy any copies. You should only read, transmit or distribute the >email if you are authorised to do so. _________________________________________________________________ REALESTATE: biggest buy/rent/share listings http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 13:15:23 +1000 From: Rebecca Appleton Subject: Re: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire Hmmm! From an interview in 1998 (available online at http://www.thedent.com/deluxe0598.html): Interviewer - Would you consider plastic surgery? Tori - I believe in maintanance, but it has to be a personal thing, You know, I'm only 34 so I haven't crossed that bridge yet. I don't know what I'll do but I'm not oppposed to a little feng shui of the face. Patriarchy, schmatriarchy... I thought UtP acknowledged friggin' *years* ago that women will participate quite willingly in putting themselves down in order to scab a bit of power for themselves. She's going backwards. Help! Someone please convince me she's not a total hypocrite before I end up completely disliking the woman and have to sell off all my CDs... ;-) On 8/15/05, Matt Bowtell wrote: > There is no evidence she's REALLY had plastic surgery, apart from the fact > her skin is looking a bit insane in places.. > nathan's just jumped on the bOTOX wagon because he's.. what do youc all it? > when you shove the blame onto someone else cuz you feel guilty ourself? > matt :P > > >From: "Emma Willson (TE GEO)" > >To: > >Subject: RE: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire > >Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 10:56:11 +0800 > > > >Tori had plastic surgery!? What the crap! > > > >Somebody had better fill me in. > > > > > > > > > > > >This email may contain personal, confidential or legally privileged > >information including information subject to privacy legislation. Any > >confidentiality or privilege is not waived because this email may have been > >sent to the wrong address. > > > >If you have received it in error, please let us know by reply email, delete > >it and destroy any copies. You should only read, transmit or distribute the > >email if you are authorised to do so. > > _________________________________________________________________ > REALESTATE: biggest buy/rent/share listings > http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 13:17:23 +1000 From: Rebecca Appleton Subject: Re: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire Oops, to clarify: I meant "women will participate quite willingly (ie, as willingly as men) in putting themselves (as a group) down to scab a bit of power for themselves (as individuals)." Tricky tricky, those ambiguous pronouns... On 8/15/05, Rebecca Appleton wrote: > Hmmm! From an interview in 1998 (available online at > http://www.thedent.com/deluxe0598.html): > > Interviewer - Would you consider plastic surgery? > Tori - I believe in maintanance, but it has to be a personal thing, > You know, I'm only 34 so I haven't crossed that bridge yet. I don't > know what I'll do but I'm not oppposed to a little feng shui of the > face. > > Patriarchy, schmatriarchy... I thought UtP acknowledged friggin' > *years* ago that women will participate quite willingly in putting > themselves down in order to scab a bit of power for themselves. She's > going backwards. > > Help! Someone please convince me she's not a total hypocrite before I > end up completely disliking the woman and have to sell off all my > CDs... ;-) > > > > On 8/15/05, Matt Bowtell wrote: > > There is no evidence she's REALLY had plastic surgery, apart from the fact > > her skin is looking a bit insane in places.. > > nathan's just jumped on the bOTOX wagon because he's.. what do youc all it? > > when you shove the blame onto someone else cuz you feel guilty ourself? > > matt :P > > > > >From: "Emma Willson (TE GEO)" > > >To: > > >Subject: RE: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire > > >Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 10:56:11 +0800 > > > > > >Tori had plastic surgery!? What the crap! > > > > > >Somebody had better fill me in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >This email may contain personal, confidential or legally privileged > > >information including information subject to privacy legislation. Any > > >confidentiality or privilege is not waived because this email may have been > > >sent to the wrong address. > > > > > >If you have received it in error, please let us know by reply email, delete > > >it and destroy any copies. You should only read, transmit or distribute the > > >email if you are authorised to do so. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > REALESTATE: biggest buy/rent/share listings > > http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 13:22:16 +1000 From: "Matt Bowtell" Subject: Re: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire She's becoming dicky of late. Since about TVAB. Did anyone read the WORD article on the dent? It pisses me off that mikewhy didn't want to publish it on the dent because it was negative.. I mean, oh yes, tori is perfect, lets act like christians and pretend it's all sunshine and rain.. She's been verging on arrogant bitch for about 12 years now and she's getting worse, and she's not getting any saner.. I'm aware that she's aware of this, but she doesn't seem to care what people think, or that she can't seem to give a lucid interview with more than one instance of something easily understandable in it. I'm raving, i feel sleepy. _________________________________________________________________ SEEK: Over 80,000 jobs across all industries at Australia's #1 job site. http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 13:27:04 +0800 From: "shannon antonio" Subject: Re: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire might as well join in the debate. i think it's great that she's releasing official bootlegs, simply coz i think the quality of all the ones on the web is shit (and yes, that definately includes my own). i really really really want some live recordings that can be played nice and loud and NOT hurt my ears. so yeah, i don't mind giving her some of my money for that. hell, she got my money for SLG even tho that was shit. and i really don't get how the bootlegs OR plastic surgery issue have ANYTHING to do with feminism. Bootlegs - good. Plastic surgery/botox - her own bloody business. Why do feminists have to stop caring about how they look??? dammit, if i had lots of money i know there'd be a few "modifications" i'd make... in any case though, nice to see something happening on the oztori front. oh, and i hope the rhino thing comes true. i like new/different music. don't care if im just a consumer, fuck it, its fun. oh, and if tori is such a stuck up bitch how come she seemed so nice at the meet n greet and signing? have to agree with the interview thing, that girl can talk some serious shit. wish she would just answer a friggin question instead of turning everything into some kind of symbolic metaphoric philosophical double entendre. ok. now i've ranted. back in my box. >From: "Matt Bowtell" >To: superbecc@gmail.com >CC: oztori@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire >Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 13:22:16 +1000 > >She's becoming dicky of late. Since about TVAB. Did anyone read the >WORD article on the dent? It pisses me off that mikewhy didn't want >to publish it on the dent because it was negative.. I mean, oh yes, >tori is perfect, lets act like christians and pretend it's all >sunshine and rain.. >She's been verging on arrogant bitch for about 12 years now and >she's getting worse, and she's not getting any saner.. I'm aware >that she's aware of this, but she doesn't seem to care what people >think, or that she can't seem to give a lucid interview with more >than one instance of something easily understandable in it. >I'm raving, i feel sleepy. > >_________________________________________________________________ >SEEK: Over 80,000 jobs across all industries at Australia's #1 job >site. http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 15:41:06 +1000 From: "Matt Bowtell" Subject: Re: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire Ahh hang on hang on.. I'm tallking in interviews etc.. She's a show pony, of course she's lovely to the fans.. She loves the fans.. But in the interviews she's getting more and more snarky and preachy.. she was lovely a the brisbane meet and greet but basking in the attention (who wouldn't).. but her interviews have been getting more and moree insane and inANE as well.. which is why i guess she's getting a lot less press.. She's pushing the same things over and over again like a fucking religious fundamentalist.. she's not a bitch she's just very arrogant when it comes to her opinions, which usually don't tend to make any sense that she explains, anyhow. >From: "shannon antonio" >To: resolver_matt@hotmail.com, superbecc@gmail.com >CC: oztori@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire >Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 13:27:04 +0800 > >might as well join in the debate. i think it's great that she's releasing >official bootlegs, simply coz i think the quality of all the ones on the >web is shit (and yes, that definately includes my own). i really really >really want some live recordings that can be played nice and loud and NOT >hurt my ears. so yeah, i don't mind giving her some of my money for that. >hell, she got my money for SLG even tho that was shit. and i really don't >get how the bootlegs OR plastic surgery issue have ANYTHING to do with >feminism. Bootlegs - good. Plastic surgery/botox - her own bloody >business. Why do feminists have to stop caring about how they look??? >dammit, if i had lots of money i know there'd be a few "modifications" >i'd make... > >in any case though, nice to see something happening on the oztori front. > >oh, and i hope the rhino thing comes true. i like new/different music. >don't care if im just a consumer, fuck it, its fun. > >oh, and if tori is such a stuck up bitch how come she seemed so nice at >the meet n greet and signing? have to agree with the interview thing, >that girl can talk some serious shit. wish she would just answer a >friggin question instead of turning everything into some kind of symbolic >metaphoric philosophical double entendre. > >ok. now i've ranted. back in my box. > > >From: "Matt Bowtell" > >To: superbecc@gmail.com > >CC: oztori@smoe.org > >Subject: Re: [oztori] lick my legs...I'm on fire > >Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 13:22:16 +1000 > > > >She's becoming dicky of late. Since about TVAB. Did anyone read the > >WORD article on the dent? It pisses me off that mikewhy didn't want > >to publish it on the dent because it was negative.. I mean, oh yes, > >tori is perfect, lets act like christians and pretend it's all > >sunshine and rain.. > >She's been verging on arrogant bitch for about 12 years now and > >she's getting worse, and she's not getting any saner.. I'm aware > >that she's aware of this, but she doesn't seem to care what people > >think, or that she can't seem to give a lucid interview with more > >than one instance of something easily understandable in it. > >I'm raving, i feel sleepy. > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >SEEK: Over 80,000 jobs across all industries at Australia's #1 job > >site. http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail _________________________________________________________________ Dating? Try Lavalife  get 7 days FREE! Sign up NOW. http://www.lavalife.com/clickthru/clickthru.act?id=ninemsn&context=an99&a=20233&locale=en_AU&_t=33473 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:48:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Nathan R Subject: [oztori] don't you wish you never met her I-now-slightly-ReSpecca wrote: > Help! Someone please convince me she's not a total > hypocrite before I > end up completely disliking the woman and have to > sell off all my > CDs... ;-) And the 'most likely successor of Nayth' award goes to... No point selling your collection "hon", unless you don't mind getting approx 25-33% of what it was once "worth". :-( Your best bet is to stop reading her interviews, and just 'enjoy the music'. Oh, yeah, bit of a problem there too of late, huh? Matt(i) wrote: > Did anyone read the WORD article on the dent? It > pisses me off that mikewhy didn't want to > publish it on the dent because it was negative.. Oh so it's actually linked on the site? Me hafta check. > She's been verging on arrogant bitch for about 12 > years now and she's getting worse, I used to find stuff like the awful J-Files interview endearing... but now, I would take the side of Richard Kingsmill on that one. He just wanted to ask her some simple questions, and she was a total bitch towards him (not, of itself, a bad thing). It wouldn't have hurt her to just answer them. Ironically, this was the interview where she harped on about arrogance, and how if you become arrogant as a songwriter/musician, then the songs stop coming. Hmmmm..... no comment. She isn't some "all-knowing" messiah. Most of us on this list have more 'formal education' than her ;) n. All the cops in the donut shops say Whey-oh whey-oh whey-ee-oh ooh-whey-oh Walk like an Egyptian http://www.geocities.com/ifyouwant75/susanna.jpg - ------------------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ End of oztori-digest V5 #104 ****************************