From: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org (oztori-digest) To: oztori-digest@smoe.org Subject: oztori-digest V4 #22 Reply-To: oztori@smoe.org Sender: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oztori-digest Tuesday, February 24 2004 Volume 04 : Number 022 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [oztori] OT: Ani DiFranco - a brief (well it could hardly be long) dissertation of her commercial success on the island [sic - sorry Tasmania] once referred to as "New Holland". [] Re: [oztori] Ani vs Tori [Jonceski Jasmina ] Re: [oztori] Toriing [=?iso-8859-1?q?Julian=20P?= ] Re: [oztori] UNO [AndrewR ] [oztori] Tasmania was called Van Dieman's land. [AndrewR ] Re: [oztori] Terra Australis was named "New Holland" By the Dutch before being renamed New South Wales by the English. [] Re: [oztori] Tori and the cost of touring [Nadyne Mielke ] [oztori] don't you hear the laughter on the way down [Nathan "®" ] Re: [oztori] Ani [=?iso-8859-1?q?Julian=20P?= ] [oztori] TOAL [=?iso-8859-1?q?Julian=20P?= ] Re: [oztori] TOAL [Nadyne Mielke ] RE: [oztori] TOAL ["Bindy ." ] Re: [oztori] levator Ani vs tecTorial membrane [Jonceski Jasmina ] Re: [oztori] TOAL [AndrewR ] Re: [oztori] TOAL to the hand; cause TORI's not listening [AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] OT: Ani DiFranco - a brief (well it could hardly be long) dissertation of her commercial success on the island [sic - sorry Tasmania] once referred to as "New Holland". Julian P wrote: > Hmn ... I'm going to take a middle ground. I don't > think that there is a DIRECT link between ticket > sales > and album sales. There are some acts/artists where I > would buy the album, but probably not see them live. > And some acts/artists that I would see live, even > though I don't have every album. ok.. IHWYS... BUT. There's a big diff between: Tori: LE #14 UTP #5 BFP #6 FTCH #8 TVAB #6 SLG #7 SW #20 TOAL #93 (lmao) and Ani: LPC #57 UUUUUU #31 EG #55 with possibly a few in between that might have barely dented the top 100. n. ===== "You've been in a rut ever since I've known you." - Jarrod, 21st February, 2003. "I mean he hasn't worked out yet that you don't really have 'feelings', other than maybe 'contempt' and 'self-satisfaction'." - Julian, 2nd January 2004. "Your whole existance [sic] would be like a mental orgasm for a psychologist!" - Jarrod, 7/5/03. "Religion has to be almost as stupid and meaningless as speech pathology. In fact now I come to think of it they both have a lot in common. No efficacy for practices, reliance on airy fairy BS that can't be proven, conservatism, denial, narrow minded people, stupidity and ignorance and the list goes on. More and more I realise that we are living in primitive dark ages. People are just so stupid." - Celia, 4/8/03. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:52:42 +1100 From: Jonceski Jasmina Subject: Re: [oztori] Ani vs Tori > Hmn. Interesting assumption. Can you explain why? For > example, I have a friend who burns everything -- > including Tori -- but says that she feels too guilty > burning Ani stuff, on account of her being a > struggling indy artist who does it all herself, and > can't really afford to lose sales to piracy like > bigger "corporate" acts can. Ani's albums are a little more expensive than Tori's. Tori's are usually <$30 (ex ltd eds) and Ani's albums are hard to find for less than $30 (Au dollars) Ani's on an independent label and distributed through an independent (shock, altho it is the largest indi distributer it is still independent). Tori's always had the luxury of being on a major and being distributed thru a major. This means her albums are a lot more accessible by the public. There are a lot of people who don't bother ordering an album if they don't see it stocked by a music retailer. Since people have a harder time finding the album, and it's more expensive, they're more likely to just pirate her songs. I could go on but know Nathan will just try to tear it apart so won't. Jas P.S. Ruv, enjoy the show! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 00:57:57 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: Re: [oztori] levator Ani vs tecTorial membrane jaz wrote: > Ani's albums are a little more expensive than > Tori's. Tori's are usually <$30 (ex ltd eds) and > Ani's albums are hard to find for less than $30 (Au > dollars) > Ani's on an independent label and distributed > through an independent (shock, altho it is the > largest indi distributer it is still independent). But she owns her own record lable, so she probable makes alot more $ per CD then Tori does. > Tori's always had the luxury of being on a major Baltimore wasn't ;) n. ===== "You've been in a rut ever since I've known you." - Jarrod, 21st February, 2003. "I mean he hasn't worked out yet that you don't really have 'feelings', other than maybe 'contempt' and 'self-satisfaction'." - Julian, 2nd January 2004. "Your whole existance [sic] would be like a mental orgasm for a psychologist!" - Jarrod, 7/5/03. "Religion has to be almost as stupid and meaningless as speech pathology. In fact now I come to think of it they both have a lot in common. No efficacy for practices, reliance on airy fairy BS that can't be proven, conservatism, denial, narrow minded people, stupidity and ignorance and the list goes on. More and more I realise that we are living in primitive dark ages. People are just so stupid." - Celia, 4/8/03. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:38:17 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] Toriing At 04:39 PM 23/02/2004, Julian P wrote: > --- AndrewR wrote: > Tori did not like her time here >last time ... she lost money, and did NOT take a >shining to the people who were at my show ... so I >think she kind of crossed Australia off the list in >her mind, and has never bothered to revisit that list. REALLY!?! What happened at your show? How many people here HAVE seen Tori live - I never have. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:21:58 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Julian=20P?= Subject: Re: [oztori] Toriing --- AndrewR wrote: > > REALLY!?! What happened at your show? > I have already explained this. On list. Today. :O) J ===== ___________________________ www.livejournal.com/~blade_to_ice ___________________________ the needle is hot and my cells cannot feed and you obtained still that beauty that drags the feet that I hide it well ernestine of sister but I obtained still that beauty that drags the feet ... you are dull to the mountain surpasses I say that the thin legs would be able to utilize the sun but now desire for my better impression of my better one dickinson of angie Tori - To Spanish and Back ____________________________ Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:56:24 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] Ani At 05:14 PM 23/02/2004, Julian P wrote: > --- Jonceski Jasmina > wrote: > > > Whereas when I bought Ani's new >CD, the two HMV staff started mocking her. Loudly. REALLY!?! Unless i could NOT by it anywhere else - I'd just leave it on the counter and walk out of the shop. (They have to put it away again on top of the no sale - you see ;) ) Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:59:38 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] UNO At 05:46 PM 23/02/2004, Julian P wrote: > --- Jonceski Jasmina > wrote: > > > >I know that Tori made a big deal pre-SW about how much >she was being pirated, but I expect that most of the >people who pirated SW were still in queue to buy it >the day it came out. Like me. She did? Well I would say - well judging by at least MY mp3 collection - that tori mp3's that ARE downloaded are the harder to get B-sides and live shows. If she released said b-sides (unchanged) and nice concerts... well then there will be less downloading. I'd prefer something like "More Pink" over a cd of mp3s anyday. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:03:29 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: [oztori] Tasmania was called Van Dieman's land. At 06:05 PM 23/02/2004, Julian P wrote: >Hmn ... I'm going to take a middle ground. I don't >think that there is a DIRECT link between ticket sales >and album sales. Well I'm giving the example of KISS - they are not 'commercially successful' - weren't for 30 years - if you go by 'highest in charts' singles etc. etc. etc. Yet they are still playing/touring the world - selling albums etc. etc. The band has the second highest number of gold records - behind The Beatles. BUT you don't see them topping the charts when a single comes out - - nor did you way back when. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:05:29 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: [oztori] Terra Australis was named "New Holland" By the Dutch before being renamed New South Wales by the English. At 06:11 PM 23/02/2004, Nathan =?UNKNOWN?B?rg==?= wrote: >Julian P wrote: > > >TOAL #93 (lmao) Reason? I reckon it had to do with the boxed set. Everyone bought that - and it probably wasn't counted among normal sales or was considered a US import so didn't get listed on the Aria charts. Or something like that. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:07:23 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] Toriing At 09:21 PM 23/02/2004, Julian P wrote: > --- AndrewR wrote: > > > REALLY!?! What happened at your show? > > > >I have already explained this. On list. Today. Yes - just read it sorry. Maybe she was just tired and emotional as it was like the arse-end of her tour - over 200 shows to that date or something crazy. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:17:37 GMT From: Rebecca Appleton Subject: Re: [oztori] Terra Australis was named "New Holland" By the Dutch before being renamed New South Wales by the English. On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:05:29 +1000, AndrewR wrote: >Reason? I reckon it had to do with the boxed set. Everyone bought >that - >and it probably wasn't counted among normal sales or was considered >a US >import so didn't get listed on the Aria charts. Or something like >that. >From one who didn't get it: I have them all already, but in versions that I'm quite attached to, such that the changes on TOAL grate for me. Also, I wouldn't listen to a Tori greatest-hits CD. I did once, just so I'd know what the new versions sound like, but I prefer to listen to the albums as they were made. Becc :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:48:47 -0800 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: [oztori] Tori and the cost of touring On Sunday, February 22, 2004, at 11:14 PM, Julian P wrote: > I don't understand how tour artists can lose money on > tours when they sell out their venues. There are sizeable up-front costs in doing a tour. When touring Europe or the US, it's pretty easy to recoup those costs because you're doing a slew of shows. But if you're touring Australia, you generally can't do enough shows to cover those costs. And upping the ticket price isn't really feasible, people aren't willing to pay enough to actually make it worthwhile. Only the biggest artists have a chance of breaking even; for anyone else, it's an obligation to the fans. [snip] > Also, I keep hearing that everything Tori loses money. > I've heard her albums lose money, hence the constant > touring. For most artists, the money isn't made on the album, but on the tour. Most artists, even big-name ones, get only a few cents per CD. Yeah, R.E.M. has a huge contract with a signing bonus, but they are the exception rather than the rule. I haven't heard anything about whether she actually profits from record sales. > I've heard her tours break even. And yet, she > has like 5 houses and a personal chef and nanny and > studio. There's a difference between breaking even on paper (read: for the tax man) and actually breaking even. We're talking about a woman who travels with a nanny, a chef, and a massage therapist. All of those count as business expenses. So she pays them out, and on paper it may look like she's breaking even, even though she's actually living quite a comfortable life. /nm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:36:51 +1100 From: "cath *" Subject: [oztori] ROLL CALL *raises hand* _________________________________________________________________ E-mail just got a whole lot better. New ninemsn Premium. Click here http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:41:44 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: [oztori] don't you hear the laughter on the way down AndrewR wrote: > At 05:14 PM 23/02/2004, Julian P wrote: > > --- Jonceski Jasmina > > wrote: > > > > Whereas when I bought Ani's new > >CD, the two HMV staff started mocking her. Loudly. Ah musta skimmed Julian's email ("ouch") & didn't see that. > REALLY!?! Unless i could NOT by it anywhere else - > I'd just leave it on the > counter and walk out of the shop. (They have to put > it away again on top of > the no sale - you see ;) ) GLTYA. Hyeh I once kind of got 'laughed' at buying *brand new* German 'China', UK 'SATY', & UK 'PGY' singles for $14.95 each in '94 in a 'trendy' mainly dance music import store in Melb. GLT them. And I felt awfully embarrassed buying Kylie's "Enjoy Yourself" CD for someone at $8.99 in 1999. hyeh. > Well I'm giving the example of KISS - they are not > 'commercially successful' - weren't for 30 years - Wrong, Andrew. They had 'hits' here with God Gave Rock n' Roll To You II in 1992 & 'Crazy Crazy Nights' (or something) dented the lower end of the top 40 in 1987... Plus their commercial 'peak' was mid-late 70's (which is not *quite* 30 years ago) & early 80's. > if you go by 'highest in charts' singles etc. etc. > etc. Yet they are still playing/touring the world - > selling albums etc. etc. Yeah but they sold alot of albums here 'in the day'. That's something that Ani (and Tori too basically hyeh) cannot lay claim to. > The band has the second highest number of gold > records - behind The Beatles. In which country & according to which source? > BUT you don't see them topping the charts when a > single comes out - nor did you way back when. Six words for you Andrew - "I Was Made For Lovin' You". > >TOAL #93 (lmao) > Reason? I reckon it had to do with the boxed set. WHAT 'boxed set'?! If you meant the CD/DVD combo, that would have been included in that #93 position. If you meant the imported digipak, I doubt it sold THAT many copies locally. > and it probably wasn't counted among normal sales or > was considered a US import so didn't get listed on > the Aria charts. Or something like that. Wrong. TVAB was available nearly 2 weeks before its local release date as an imported US 'box sex' (sic) - and it didn't stop TVAB from debuting at #6. People just didn't want TOAL, & Tori's time as a 'commercial force to be reckoned with' (cough) is up. Nadyne Mielke wrote: > There are sizeable up-front costs in doing a tour. > When touring Europe > or the US, it's pretty easy to recoup those costs > because you're doing > a slew of shows. But if you're touring Australia, > you generally can't > do enough shows to cover those costs. But Julian's point was - "if you SELL OUT your shows, you can't do any BETTER than that... so how useful is it then to claim 'I lost money', when you still couldn't have done any BETTER?!" It smacks of 'well duh, shouldn't you have figuered that even if you completely sold out your planned shows you'd still lose money, so like, what is the point of complaining NOW, dumbass!" Plus you're also overlooking the typical increase in album sales that accompany a tour or promotional visit. > For most artists, the money isn't made on the album, > but on the tour. > Most artists, even big-name ones, get only a few > cents per CD. They get more than 'a few cents'. You might get 'a few cents' if you are say, one third of Atomic Kitten who (despite the credits, I'm sure they) don't really contribute in any way to the creation of their 'product' other than show up to the studio to 'sing' a few lines which are acoustically manipulated to sound on-key. But if you write, produce, perform on your album, you get significantly more. Back when records were the main sales format in Oz, a typical artist would get $1-something per sale - and this was if they were 'only' the performer (ie, no production/songwriting/performing royalties on top of this) and at a time when records retailed at around A$16-17. > I haven't heard anything about whether she actually > profits from record > sales. Recent lack-lustre sales aside, I'm sure she does. Tori's records would be relatively 'cheap' to make - she doesn't have to pay for studio time or an expensive producer to make 'em. Her promotional budget seems to be fuck-all these days, so it's not like she has big expenses there to recouperate for the record company either. n. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:49:05 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Lara?= Subject: Re: [oztori] Toriing --- AndrewR wrote: > > How many people here HAVE seen Tori live - I never have. *puts hand up* I have seen Tori live, mind you not in OZ.. I went all the way to London to see her! (well worth it ofcourse, but if she came out to OZ then it would be alot easier for all of us!). we can only dream *sigh* lol. Rala ;oD Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:55:13 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Julian=20P?= Subject: Re: [oztori] Ani --- AndrewR wrote: > > REALLY!?! Unless i could NOT by it anywhere else - > I'd just leave it on the > counter and walk out of the shop. (They have to put > it away again on top of > the no sale - you see ;) ) > > Andrew Yeah, but HMV was the only place that seemed to have it in stock at Macquarie Centre, and I wasn't going to stand on my principles to the point of driving 20 minutes to the next nearest mall ... where (at best) vocal contempt would be replaced by silent contempt. :O) Jules (Silent Contempt All These Years) P ===== ___________________________ www.livejournal.com/~blade_to_ice ___________________________ the needle is hot and my cells cannot feed and you obtained still that beauty that drags the feet that I hide it well ernestine of sister but I obtained still that beauty that drags the feet ... you are dull to the mountain surpasses I say that the thin legs would be able to utilize the sun but now desire for my better impression of my better one dickinson of angie Tori - To Spanish and Back ____________________________ Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:03:02 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Julian=20P?= Subject: Re: [oztori] UNO --- AndrewR wrote: > At 05:46 PM 23/02/2004, Julian P wrote: > > --- Jonceski Jasmina > > wrote: > > > > > >I know that Tori made a big deal pre-SW about how > much > >she was being pirated, but I expect that most of > the > >people who pirated SW were still in queue to buy it > >the day it came out. Like me. > > She did? Yeah. Remember all that stuff about Tori making "husband" glue all those CD Walkmans with advance copies of SW shut, and making journos return said CD Walkmans intact within 24 hours, to prevent the album being pirated and disseminated prior to its release ... Ironically, the album was still pirated before its release, fans still bought the album the day it came out, and it STILL charted nothing! LOL, go Tori! Btw, I listened to SW from beginning to end last night, on my "good" stereo ... and it really IS an amazing album. Even Crazy -- which was my least fave [aside from Wampum Prayer] -- was really really good! I can understand the SLG flop ... But it's sad that even Tori's better work barely makes a ripple ... :O( J ===== ___________________________ www.livejournal.com/~blade_to_ice ___________________________ the needle is hot and my cells cannot feed and you obtained still that beauty that drags the feet that I hide it well ernestine of sister but I obtained still that beauty that drags the feet ... you are dull to the mountain surpasses I say that the thin legs would be able to utilize the sun but now desire for my better impression of my better one dickinson of angie Tori - To Spanish and Back ____________________________ Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:10:11 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Julian=20P?= Subject: Re: [oztori] Tori and the cost of touring --- Nadyne Mielke wrote: > [lots of stuff] Thanks Nadyne, for your long and informative post ... don't have anything specifically to add now, but thanks! :O) J ===== ___________________________ www.livejournal.com/~blade_to_ice ___________________________ the needle is hot and my cells cannot feed and you obtained still that beauty that drags the feet that I hide it well ernestine of sister but I obtained still that beauty that drags the feet ... you are dull to the mountain surpasses I say that the thin legs would be able to utilize the sun but now desire for my better impression of my better one dickinson of angie Tori - To Spanish and Back ____________________________ Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:17:20 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: Re: [oztori] UFO Julian P wrote: > Yeah. Remember all that stuff about Tori making > "husband" glue all those CD Walkmans with advance > copies of SW shut, and making journos return said CD > Walkmans intact within 24 hours, to prevent the > album > being pirated and disseminated prior to its release > ... Ironically, the album was still pirated before > its > release, fans still bought the album the day it came > out, and it STILL charted nothing! LOL, go Tori! It did really 'as expected' in the US, but fared poorer in the UK & Aus (um maybe because of constant NEGLECT, Tori?!). lol maybe she should try the reverse tactic for her next CD - glue peoples' ears to the headphones on the set so they HAVE to listen to it. > I can understand the SLG flop ... ...even though it did better in the world-outside-of-the-USA than SW. n. ===== "You've been in a rut ever since I've known you." - Jarrod, 21st February, 2003. "I mean he hasn't worked out yet that you don't really have 'feelings', other than maybe 'contempt' and 'self-satisfaction'." - Julian, 2nd January 2004. "Your whole existance [sic] would be like a mental orgasm for a psychologist!" - Jarrod, 7/5/03. "Religion has to be almost as stupid and meaningless as speech pathology. In fact now I come to think of it they both have a lot in common. No efficacy for practices, reliance on airy fairy BS that can't be proven, conservatism, denial, narrow minded people, stupidity and ignorance and the list goes on. More and more I realise that we are living in primitive dark ages. People are just so stupid." - Celia, 4/8/03. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:34:46 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Julian=20P?= Subject: [oztori] TOAL Hmn, this is sparked by a few anti-TOAL comments made yesterday and today ... I've listened to TOAL quite a lot lately ... and while it's still not the Greatest Hits CD *I* would have made, I think that it's a much better CD than we've given it credit for. My quick for and againsts: FOR: * I like the two new songs. They're not likely to make it into my Tori Top 10, and they're not the profoundest pieces of profound profoundness ever committed to CD, but I enjoy listening to them, and I think that's mostly the point. * I like the two re-records. I would not have chosen those songs, but then if she had re-recorded two "sacred" songs, we'd likely be after her blood. Sweet Dreams is now a cheeky, comical anti-Bush jab, and Mary is the anthem it always wanted to be. Again, they're fun to listen to, and not much more. So? * I like some of the 'remixes' (sic). SATY and Winter are MUCH better than on LE. You can hear the other instruments! TIYH has been cleaned up and no longer sounds quite so "dated". Baker Baker is much more heartbreaking with strings. And I really like the new strings and echo on Jackie's Strength. * Overall MOST of the 'quintessential' Tori songs are there ... PT, SATY, Winter, MAAG, CFG, God, Spark, Bliss ... * Most of her most 'accessible' songs are there ... although not my favourite three songs on ftch, Spark, Jackie's Strength and Playboy Mommy are the FIRST three songs that I liked on that album. The rest took their time. Ditto God, CFG and Baker Baker on UTP. Mr Zebra was even my first favourite on BFP. Perhaps the collection should have been touted as "Tales of a Librarian: The Least Off-Putting Songs of Tori Amos". But then "A Tori Amos Collection" isn't promising to be a greatest hits anyway ... and when you have an artist who hasn't really had much in the way of a 'hit' (other than arguably PW, Spark and CFG, which are all on there), then a 'palatable' collection may be a good alternative. * The album actually flows well (surprisingly!!). It has more of an album feel than a GH which often feels all over the place. Also, it's a good primer for who Tori is now ... which is both a good and a bad thing. Okay, NOW the AGAINST: * No CALS. And no wilder tracks. Swirl or Hotel or i i e e e would have been nice. One track to show that Tori wasn't always 'something safe for the picture frame'. * The packaging is a little offputting ... I don't mind it, but it would not convince me to pick it up were I not already a fan. * Some of the 'remixes' (sic) are for the worse ... Spark most notably. * It does seem to be more of a prospective album than a retrospective ... as if Tori is trying to rewrite her history to fit what she is 'now'. That's a good AND a bad thing, hence listing it twice. Can't think of any more. Discuss! J ===== ___________________________ www.livejournal.com/~blade_to_ice ___________________________ the needle is hot and my cells cannot feed and you obtained still that beauty that drags the feet that I hide it well ernestine of sister but I obtained still that beauty that drags the feet ... you are dull to the mountain surpasses I say that the thin legs would be able to utilize the sun but now desire for my better impression of my better one dickinson of angie Tori - To Spanish and Back ____________________________ Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:49:32 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: Re: [oztori] TOAL Julian P wrote: > I've listened to TOAL quite a lot lately ... and > while > it's still not the Greatest Hits CD *I* would have > made, I think that it's a much better CD than we've > given it credit for. *snip* What I really don't like about TOAL is that it was marketed as a kind of 'this has EVEN BETTER versions of the songs than the originals on it!'. The only song I think is an improvement is Way Down with the nice extra choir bit at the end. Although I think WD was a rather dubious inclusion. Tear In Your Hand & Crucify are ok too. But I'd still rather listen to the originals on the albums as somone recently said. > * I like some of the 'remixes' (sic). SATY and > Winter > are MUCH better than on LE. I don't agree, but GLTYJ. > You can hear the other > instruments! TIYH has been cleaned up and no longer > sounds quite so "dated". Let's see how you feel about this in 12 years' time. > be a greatest hits anyway ... and when you have an > artist who hasn't really had much in the way of a > 'hit' But that's the trouble, she actually had *12* top 40 hits in the UK between 1992 and 1998: Winter (25), Crucify (15), SATY (26), CG (4), PGY (7), PTM (35), CALS (20), T (22), HJ/PW (20), BS (26) PW(IGTBB) (1), S (16). Only SIX of which made this 'collection' (7 if we include the live PGY on the DVD). > * The album actually flows well (surprisingly!!). It > has more of an album feel than a GH which often > feels > all over the place. IMNSHO 'Greatest Hits' CDs should be chronological singles collections... or not at all. n. ===== "Possessed she was, ashamed and unexpressed she was With a cross upon her chest she was Oppressed, she had transgressed She knew she had her mother's soul. Enraged she was, in a funnel cage she was You never really spared the rot, but still you spoiled this child I'm lying here, I'm running wild. I dream I hear the angels sing around me But closing time is not easy on a Friday. Oh lord may it be soon, come and get me Oh I'm so sick and tired, don't forget me" - 'Suppressed Trilogy', Siobhan Fahey. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:07:17 -0800 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: [oztori] TOAL On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 03:34 PM, Julian P wrote: [snip] > * No CALS. And no wilder tracks. Swirl or Hotel or i i > e e e would have been nice. One track to show that > Tori wasn't always 'something safe for the picture > frame'. I really really wish that she had put 'Raspberry Swirl' on there, rather than that bloody endless PW remix. I don't particularly like PW anyway, but the star funkin' trunkin' luckin' duckin' muckin' buckin' ruckin' whatever remix just grates on my nerves. In my ever-humble opinion, RS is a better track for dancing. Yeah, yeah, I know that the PW remix made the charts and all the rest, but it feels so very out-of-place on ToaL. But I think RS would've fit in with the rest of the tracks better, and not been so annoying. /nm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:11:52 +1000 From: "Bindy ." Subject: RE: [oztori] TOAL Jules wrote on Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:34:46 +1100 (EST) >* Some of the 'remixes' (sic) are for the worse ... >Spark most notably. Thank you! I love this song, but the version on TOAL really lacks the power the original had. Sounds too pretty and almost numb. ~Bindy Go to: http://www.livejournal.com/users/cancerian/ for Ramblings From The Moon Child _________________________________________________________________ Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:08:17 +1100 From: Jonceski Jasmina Subject: Re: [oztori] levator Ani vs tecTorial membrane > But she owns her own record lable, so she probable > makes alot more $ per CD then Tori does. how did this get to being about who earns more money? i thought i was discussing why wone would be pirated more than the other. don't interrupt unless you have something relevant to say nathan ;) jas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:18:20 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: Re: [oztori] levator Ani vs tecTorial membrane Jaz wrote: > don't interrupt unless you have something relevant > to say nathan ;) But I *always* have something relevant to say. I'm just 'misunderstood' and 'ahead of my time' :P yous will all see 1 day. n. ===== "Possessed she was, ashamed and unexpressed she was With a cross upon her chest she was Oppressed, she had transgressed She knew she had her mother's soul. Enraged she was, in a funnel cage she was You never really spared the rot, but still you spoiled this child I'm lying here, I'm running wild. I dream I hear the angels sing around me But closing time is not easy on a Friday. Oh lord may it be soon, come and get me Oh I'm so sick and tired, don't forget me" - 'Suppressed Trilogy', Siobhan Fahey. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:19:33 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] don't you hear the laughter on the way down At 08:41 AM 24/02/2004, you wrote: >AndrewR wrote: > >And I felt awfully embarrassed buying Kylie's "Enjoy >Yourself" CD for someone at $8.99 in 1999. hyeh. But said (well snipped) desk-jerks wouldn't bat an eyelid at a pseudo-goth-girl wearing a marylin manson t-shirt buying "so fresh 1998" or what ever I saw her perusing. > > >TOAL #93 (lmao) > > > Reason? I reckon it had to do with the boxed set. > >WHAT 'boxed set'?! If you meant the CD/DVD combo, >that would have been included in that #93 position. >If you meant the imported digipak, I doubt it sold >THAT many copies locally. > > > > and it probably wasn't counted among normal sales or > > was considered a US import so didn't get listed on > > the Aria charts. Or something like that. > >Wrong. TVAB was available nearly 2 weeks before its >local release date as an imported US 'box sex' (sic) - >and it didn't stop TVAB from debuting at #6. But that was an expensive digipack that was THE SAME as the album. The Box with SW was brought in from the US... you cant tell me there was a separate plant making the 'trinkets'. >People just didn't want TOAL, & Tori's time as a >'commercial force to be reckoned with' (cough) is up. Maybe people were BURNT from SLG? Maybe no one KNEW the album was out - I mean look at the number of posters that were around for SLG compared to those for SW?? I managed to pick up 2 and only got the SW one due to the kindness of the people behind the counter at a shop in Brisbane. and ZERO posters in stores for TOAL. >Recent lack-lustre sales aside, I'm sure she does. >Tori's records would be relatively 'cheap' to make - >she doesn't have to pay for studio time or an >expensive producer to make 'em. Her promotional budget >seems to be fuck-all these days, so it's not like she >has big expenses there to recouperate for the record >company either. Plus she doesn't even make her own videos anymore :) See the non-existant Taxi-Ride... oh WHY wasn't that released!?! Would have been a GREAT single. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:22:31 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] Ani At 08:55 AM 24/02/2004, you wrote: > --- AndrewR wrote: > > > > REALLY!?! Unless i could NOT by it anywhere else - > > I'd just leave it on the > > counter and walk out of the shop. (They have to put > > it away again on top of > > the no sale - you see ;) ) > > > > Andrew > > >Yeah, but HMV was the only place that seemed to have >it in stock at Macquarie Centre, and I wasn't going to >stand on my principles to the point of driving 20 >minutes to the next nearest mall ... where (at best) >vocal contempt would be replaced by silent contempt. > >:O) > >Jules (Silent Contempt All These Years) P LOL - you could have made SOME sort of scene!! :) You could have brought up 20 other albums from different sections - placed them on the couunter and then just bought Tori? :) 101 ways to piss off smug record store employees. They're the comic-book store guys of the music world :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:31:08 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] TOAL At 09:34 AM 24/02/2004, Julian P wrote: > Baker Baker is much more >heartbreaking with strings. Is THAT what makes TOAL's BB better than the original - included strings?? >* Most of her most 'accessible' songs are there ... >although not my favourite three songs on ftch, Spark, >Jackie's Strength and Playboy Mommy are the FIRST >three songs that I liked on that album. The rest took >their time. Ditto God, CFG and Baker Baker on UTP. Mr >Zebra was even my first favourite on BFP. Perhaps the >collection should have been touted as "Tales of a >Librarian: The Least Off-Putting Songs of Tori Amos". >But then "A Tori Amos Collection" isn't promising to >be a greatest hits anyway ... and when you have an >artist who hasn't really had much in the way of a >'hit' (other than arguably PW, Spark and CFG, which >are all on there), then a 'palatable' collection may >be a good alternative. > >* The album actually flows well (surprisingly!!). It >has more of an album feel than a GH which often feels >all over the place. Also, it's a good primer for who >Tori is now ... which is both a good and a bad thing. > >Okay, NOW the AGAINST: > >* No CALS. And no wilder tracks. Swirl or Hotel or i i >e e e would have been nice. One track to show that >Tori wasn't always 'something safe for the picture >frame'. > >* The packaging is a little offputting ... I don't >mind it, but it would not convince me to pick it up >were I not already a fan. > >* Some of the 'remixes' (sic) are for the worse ... >Spark most notably. > >* It does seem to be more of a prospective album than >a retrospective ... as if Tori is trying to rewrite >her history to fit what she is 'now'. That's a good >AND a bad thing, hence listing it twice. > >Can't think of any more. > >Discuss! > >J > >===== >___________________________ > >www.livejournal.com/~blade_to_ice > >___________________________ > >the needle is hot and my cells cannot feed >and you obtained still that beauty that drags the feet >that I hide it well ernestine of sister >but I obtained still that >beauty that drags the feet > >... > >you are dull to the mountain surpasses >I say that the thin legs would be able to utilize the sun >but now desire for my better impression >of my better one dickinson of angie > >Tori - To Spanish and Back >____________________________ > >Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. >http://au.movies.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 15:35:41 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] TOAL to the hand; cause TORI's not listening At 10:07 AM 24/02/2004, Nadyne Mielke wrote: >On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 03:34 PM, Julian P wrote: > >[snip] > >>* No CALS. And no wilder tracks. Swirl or Hotel or i i >>e e e would have been nice. One track to show that >>Tori wasn't always 'something safe for the picture >>frame'. > >I really really wish that she had put 'Raspberry Swirl' on there, rather >than that bloody endless PW remix. I don't particularly like PW anyway, >but the star funkin' trunkin' luckin' duckin' muckin' buckin' ruckin' >whatever remix just grates on my nerves. In my ever-humble opinion, RS is >a better track for dancing. > >Yeah, yeah, I know that the PW remix made the charts and all the rest, but >it feels so very out-of-place on ToaL. But I think RS would've fit in >with the rest of the tracks better, and not been so annoying. Agree with you SOOOOO mucly Nadine - hands up who else just skips it when Way Down finishes? I was in music store a few weeks ago where girl behind desk was playing it... anyway we were chatting about it and she too skipped Armand's criminal subliminal pants dumping mix. >/nm ------------------------------ End of oztori-digest V4 #22 ***************************