From: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org (oztori-digest) To: oztori-digest@smoe.org Subject: oztori-digest V2 #375 Reply-To: oztori@smoe.org Sender: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oztori-digest Monday, December 16 2002 Volume 02 : Number 375 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [oztori] OMG, I just "got" Bells for Her [=?iso-8859-1?q?Julian=20P?= ] Re[2]: [oztori] Brissy meet [Zac Ariel ] Re: [oztori] OMG, I just "got" Bells for Her [Nathan "®" ] Re: [oztori] OMG, I just "got" Bells for Her [Rebecca Appleton ] Re: [oztori] Triple J's Hottest Albums of 2002 [AndrewR ] [oztori] 'tis the season to be jolly... [Nathan "®" ] Re: Re[3]: [oztori] Brissy meet [AndrewR ] Re: [oztori] Triple J's Crappiest Albums of everything post-1998 [Nathan ] Re: [oztori] 'tis the season to be jolly... [AndrewR ] [oztori] H-ypocrite (ot: but what isn't?) [Nathan "®" Subject: [oztori] OMG, I just "got" Bells for Her ... in eight years how could I have not worked out it was about BWS/domestic violence?? it really is an horrifically sad song (almost as much so as PT live with the "wash me clean daddy/wash him out of me" part). Jules - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Greetings - - Send your seasons greetings online this year! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 21:51:34 GMT From: Rebecca Appleton Subject: Re: [oztori] Brissy meet On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 13:19:57 +1000, AndrewR wrote: >>I won't be going. No $. >> >>~Becc > >Since when do you need $ to chat? > Since the aforementioned chatting was taking place at a venue where I'll be glared at if I buy nothing! Also because the email said it's at a bar. If it was at a cafe I'd probably just buy a hot drink, but if alcohol's being consumed one can't really just buy one drink and then sit there and watch everyone get stupider and stupider whilst remaining sober, can one! :P ~Becc - -- www.crappism.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 00:11:42 +1000 From: Zac Ariel Subject: Re[2]: [oztori] Brissy meet Monday, December 16, 2002, 7:51:34 AM, Rebecca wrote: RA> at a bar. If it was at a cafe I'd probably just buy a hot drink, but RA> if alcohol's being consumed one can't really just buy one drink and RA> then sit there and watch everyone get stupider and stupider whilst RA> remaining sober, can one! :P umm ... bar merlo *is* a coffee shop. zac - ---- zac ariel; web addict and dsl junkie m: 0414 229 299 e: zac@internode.on.net w: http://www.level21.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 12:08:18 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: Re: [oztori] OMG, I just "got" Bells for Her Julian P wrote: > ... in eight years how could I have not worked out > it was about BWS/domestic violence?? Yeah I mean: - - "and through the walls they made their mudpies" = punchings holes in walls, and 'mudpies' = black eyes. - - "blanket friends" = blanket used for smothering somebody else till they can't breathe anymore... 'friends' being used sarcastically here of course. - - "I've got your mind" = mindfucking games. - - "footfalls and soldiers" = falling on one's feet after being socked in the jaw; 'soldiers' being a reference to the war that is going on. - - "now she seems to be sand under his shoes" = getting your ass stomped.. literally. - - "I see it coming, and it's on its way" = last thoughts momentarily before being *thwacked* in the face and knocked into a coma. Very dramatic ending to the song. Nah, 'in all seriousness' Julian, what makes you think 'tis 'bout domestic violence? And what does "BWS" stand for? > it really is an horrifically eek I hate when people think they can put an 'an' (cool another instance of being able to use the same word twice consecutively) in front of a word starting with a 'h' sound. 'h' is a consonant sound dearies (er well actually it's just a voiceless/whispered version of the following vowel), so you can't put an 'an' in front of it, according to moi :) (exceptions being words beginning with 'silent' H - eg. hour, honour, heir). > sad song (almost as > much so as PT live I don't see that one as 'sad' as much as 'angry'. But each to their own. Nathan. ===== "Look we've established that I was a total wanker at uni so can you just stop mentioning it? Thanks :)" - - Celia, 9th October 2002. "They don't expect boys to pretend to be nice, but they do with girls, and I'm not a nice person!" - Siobhan Fahey. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 08:57:27 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rala?= Subject: Re: [oztori] OMG, I just "got" Bells for Her --- Nathan . wrote: \ > > And what does "BWS" stand for? > I would say that BWS = battered woman syndrome ? Rala ;oD http://greetings.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Greetings - - Send your seasons greetings online this year! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:08:53 GMT From: Rebecca Appleton Subject: Re[3]: [oztori] Brissy meet On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 00:11:42 +1000, Zac Ariel wrote: > >umm ... bar merlo *is* a coffee shop. > *cough*Stupidnamethen*cough* That could almost have been convenient, except for the fact that I can't even afford the public transport fare to get there, this week. Last night I was considering trying to show up. Today I'm realising how far I am from the slightest possibility. When I say "no $", I mean literally no $. And no VISA to cover the gap like I'd usually do, since I've had to cancel it too. ~Becc - -- www.crappism.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:13:13 GMT From: Rebecca Appleton Subject: Re: [oztori] OMG, I just "got" Bells for Her On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 12:08:18 -0800 (PST), Nathan ". wrote: >>it really is an horrifically > >eek I hate when people think they can put an 'an' >(cool another instance of being able to use the same >word twice consecutively) in front of a word starting >with a 'h' sound. 'h' is a consonant sound dearies >(er well actually it's just a voiceless/whispered >version of the following vowel), so you can't put an >'an' in front of it, according to moi :) According to The Rules, you can use "a" OR "an", depending on whether or not you pronounce the aitch. Presumably Julian says "'orrifically" rather than "horrifically", which I'd gripe about too except that it's unfortunately quite legitimate. ;-) >>sad song (almost as >>much so as PT live > >I don't see that one as 'sad' as much as 'angry'. But >each to their own. The "in my peach party dress" bit is 'orrifically sad! ~Becc - -- www.crappism.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:03:57 +1000 From: "Bindy ." Subject: Re: [oztori] Brissy meet Andy wrote: >>>Hey Brisvegans tori meetup.com meet is on again (earlier in the >>>month cause of Christmas) >>>On Tuesday night at 7:30pm Becc wrote: >>I won't be going. No $. Ditto. I won't be either. Same reason. Andrew wrote >Since when do you need $ to chat? One requires a way of getting in there. Fuel, parking cost, money for beverage, all which I have no money for because these things are always organised on my off pay week, 2 days before pay day! I have holidays up again though (21st Dec - 5th January). Maybe I could catch up with some of you then. ~Bindy Go to: http://www.livejournal.com/users/cancerian/ for Ramblings From The Moon Child _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:34:56 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] Triple J's Hottest Albums of 2002 At 04:00 15/12/2002 -0000, Matty Vines wrote: >Hey Guys... >just thought i'd tell you that.. Triple J is doing their best albums of 2002 and stuff.. Um, and Tori's album is on the list.. isn't that nice we can all go vote for tori if we like.. And, it's not only THE top album.. it's a top 5.. So that's pretty cool.. Except for those of you who don't actually listen to anything apart from Tori.. So, uh.. We'll see.. *grins*.. >The URL Is.. >http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/2002/albums/vote.htm >So let's see what happens.. I listen to a lot of different music - not just Tori - but can I just say HOW MUCH CRAP there is on that list!?! Thanks. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:36:18 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] Triple J's Hottest Albums of 2002 At 04:00 15/12/2002 -0000, Matty Vines wrote: >Hey Guys... >just thought i'd tell you that.. Triple J is doing their best albums of 2002 and stuff.. Um, and Tori's album is on the list.. isn't that nice we can all go vote for tori if we like.. And, it's not only THE top album.. it's a top 5.. So that's pretty cool.. Except for those of you who don't actually listen to anything apart from Tori.. So, uh.. We'll see.. *grins*.. >The URL Is.. >http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/2002/albums/vote.htm >So let's see what happens.. Oh also Matty - you might want to post this to the @forumz and Mike Why - tell them they can just invent an address - or tell them to put in Sydney 2001 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:38:13 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] Brissy meet At 21:51 15/12/2002 GMT, Rebecca Appleton wrote: >On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 13:19:57 +1000, AndrewR wrote: >>>I won't be going. No $. >>> >>>~Becc >> >>Since when do you need $ to chat? >> > >Since the aforementioned chatting was taking place at a venue where >I'll be glared at if I buy nothing! Also because the email said it's >at a bar. If it was at a cafe I'd probably just buy a hot drink, but >if alcohol's being consumed one can't really just buy one drink and >then sit there and watch everyone get stupider and stupider whilst >remaining sober, can one! :P Is it a bar BAR though? I've never been there - I'm assuming it's a quiet bar/cafe - cause last time everyone agreed that the noise was too loud at Fatboys (it was really busy). Anyone been to this Bar Merlo? And isn't Merlo a brand of COFFEE?? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:37:22 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: [oztori] 'tis the season to be jolly... Rebecca Appleton wrote: > That could almost have been convenient, except for > the fact that I > can't even afford the public transport fare to get > there, this week. > Last night I was considering trying to show up. > Today I'm realising > how far I am from the slightest possibility. When I > say "no $", I > mean literally no $. And no VISA to cover the gap > like I'd usually > do, since I've had to cancel it too. OK, at this point I don a Father XXX-mas suit & fake white beard and instigate: - - a fund to help Becc get to the Brissy Oztori meet & get her credit-card re-instated; - - a fund to help Andrew replace those stolen DVD's and restore his faith in humanity; - - a fund to help Dylan get to the UK next year and to pay for therapy after those best-forgotten garbageboi incidents; - - a fund for Matty Vines to finally get those Past the Mission singles. Anything else I should add while I'm at it? Nathan (Hebrew for 'gift'!). ===== "Look we've established that I was a total wanker at uni so can you just stop mentioning it? Thanks :)" - - Celia, 9th October 2002. "They don't expect boys to pretend to be nice, but they do with girls, and I'm not a nice person!" - Siobhan Fahey. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:39:03 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: Re[2]: [oztori] Brissy meet At 00:11 16/12/2002 +1000, Zac Ariel wrote: >Monday, December 16, 2002, 7:51:34 AM, Rebecca wrote: > >RA> at a bar. If it was at a cafe I'd probably just buy a hot drink, but >RA> if alcohol's being consumed one can't really just buy one drink and >RA> then sit there and watch everyone get stupider and stupider whilst >RA> remaining sober, can one! :P > >umm ... bar merlo *is* a coffee shop. a ha - maybe I should read all the posts first. There you go Becc - nothing to stop you now!! :) Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:41:44 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: Re[3]: [oztori] Brissy meet At 10:08 16/12/2002 GMT, Rebecca Appleton wrote: >On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 00:11:42 +1000, Zac Ariel wrote: >> >>umm ... bar merlo *is* a coffee shop. >> > >*cough*Stupidnamethen*cough* > >That could almost have been convenient, except for the fact that I >can't even afford the public transport fare to get there, this week. >Last night I was considering trying to show up. Today I'm realising >how far I am from the slightest possibility. When I say "no $", I >mean literally no $. And no VISA to cover the gap like I'd usually >do, since I've had to cancel it too. Again I really should read all the posts - ok you're not going then. :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:42:42 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: Re: [oztori] Triple J's Crappiest Albums of everything post-1998 AndrewR wrote: > I listen to a lot of different music - not just > Tori - but can I just say > HOW MUCH CRAP there is on that list!?! 1) omg you say "can I just say" too! Ceals says that all the time! 2) Yes I was nearly going to post some "er, HAVE there been any decent albums this year (bar SW)?" Although come to think of it, I think SW has been the only album I've bought this year which was actually released this year. Space's "Greatest Hits" doesn't really count :P Nathan. ===== "Look we've established that I was a total wanker at uni so can you just stop mentioning it? Thanks :)" - - Celia, 9th October 2002. "They don't expect boys to pretend to be nice, but they do with girls, and I'm not a nice person!" - Siobhan Fahey. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:53:28 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] 'tis the season to be jolly... At 17:37 15/12/2002 -0800, Nathan "." wrote: > >OK, at this point I don a Father XXX-mas suit & fake >white beard and instigate: > >Anything else I should add while I'm at it? > > >Nathan (Hebrew for 'gift'!). A Fund to take down Microsoft for fucking well putting computer-stuffing updates to XP on their computer!! It's gonna cost me like $75 to fix (supposedly) we'll see this afternoon. Fuck they suck. They owe me. And it's no good saying that I didn't HAVE to download the update - because THEY prompt you and if you didn't download the updates and something went wrong, the first thing they would say is "Did you download the update?" "no" "well that is what they are there for". Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:55:02 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] Triple J's Crappiest Albums of everything post-199*2* At 17:42 15/12/2002 -0800, Nathan "." wrote: >AndrewR wrote: > >> I listen to a lot of different music - not just >> Tori - but can I just say >> HOW MUCH CRAP there is on that list!?! > >1) omg you say "can I just say" too! Ceals says that >all the time! Ceals? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 13:26:18 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Julian=20P?= Subject: [oztori] to H or not to H? Nayth: >eek I hate when people think they can put an 'an' >(cool another instance of being able to use the same >word twice consecutively) in front of a word starting >with a 'h' sound. 'h' is a consonant sound dearies >(er well actually it's just a voiceless/whispered >version of the following vowel), so you can't put an >'an' in front of it, according to moi :) Becc: >According to The Rules, you can use "a" OR "an", depending on whether >or not you pronounce the aitch. Presumably Julian says >"'orrifically" rather than "horrifically", which I'd gripe about too >except that it's unfortunately quite legitimate. ;-) I agree that Becc's rule is probably the best rule of thumb, but I *do* pronounce the 'h' in 'horrifically' (and in most other cases, but NOT in 'homage'), and I still defend the use of "an" prior to it. Since "h" and "y" have quasi-vowel status, grammar rules kinda get a bit skewed. I really wouldn't say "an hospital", for example (that's certainly wrong). Perhaps my thinking on this is augmented by the the fact that my Dad's fam is from Yorkshire, where the letter "h" does not exist -- big troubles exist at the end of Sesame Street episodes ;-) -- or appears in all the wrong places (eg, my dad will often "'ave an happle", which is to say he will consume a piece of fruit), and while I don't have much of that accent myself, I do have the slightest trace of it, and it affects the way I think about certain words. Now shut up Nayth before I beat you to death with my Arts Degree with a Major in English (if I ever get it!!). Oh, and Bells for Her (the Jules P interp) is coming when I'm not wasting work hours, for those of you peeing your pants with excitement (or for other reasons). :-) J - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger for SMS- Always be connected to your Messenger Friends ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 18:50:55 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: [oztori] The H-bomb AndrewR wrote: > At 17:42 15/12/2002 -0800, Nathan "." wrote: > >AndrewR wrote: > > > >> I listen to a lot of different music - not just > >> Tori - but can I just say > >> HOW MUCH CRAP there is on that list!?! > > > >1) omg you say "can I just say" too! Ceals says > that > >all the time! > > Ceals? Oh I thought you'd 'met' her in oztori.. my 'irl' friend who is a certain pop tartlet's cousin & who is also the one responsible for the "wanker @ uni" comment in my sig. Oh and Andz.. yeah momentarily forgot about your computer crisis... Geesh.. *suggests we all make a gold (as in 24 karat) coin donation your way* ;) Julian P wrote re the 'H'/an issue: > I agree that Becc's rule is probably the best rule > of thumb, but I *do* pronounce the 'h' in > 'horrifically' (and in most other cases, but NOT in > 'homage'), The way I look at it, let's pretend we're back at primary school for a moment.. and you were telling somebody about who was in your class. A dialogue might go something like this: "There's an Andrew in my class... and a Nathan. They're big and mean and give me a hard time ;) But there A HAYLEY in my class who is really nice." Notice in the example above you WOULD NOT say "there was AN Hayley!" > and I still defend the use of "an" prior > to it. *beams you over the head with a dictionary* See my 'fool-proof' argument above. > Since "h" and "y" have quasi-vowel status, mmmmmmm so do l, r, and w. > grammar rules kinda get a bit skewed. You mean 'screwed' in this case. > I really > wouldn't say "an hospital", for example (that's > certainly wrong). Yup. See you've just shot your argument in the foot. > Perhaps my thinking on this is augmented by the the > fact that my Dad's fam is from Yorkshire, where the > letter "h" does not exist -- big troubles exist at > the end of Sesame Street episodes ;-) -- or appears > in all the wrong places (eg, my dad will often "'ave > an happle", which is to say he will consume a piece > of fruit), and while I don't have much of that > accent myself, I do have the slightest trace of it, > and it affects the way I think about certain words. Typical - blame if all on your parents ;) > Now shut up Nayth before I beat you to death with my > Arts Degree with a Major in English (if I ever get > it!!). Well shoosh youself before I beat you to death with my er.... first year syntax & phonetics subjects =) > Oh, and Bells for Her (the Jules P interp) is coming > when I'm not wasting work hours, for those of you > peeing your pants with excitement (or for other > reasons). Oh I can barely contain my continence. Nathan. ===== "Look we've established that I was a total wanker at uni so can you just stop mentioning it? Thanks :)" - - Celia, 9th October 2002. "They don't expect boys to pretend to be nice, but they do with girls, and I'm not a nice person!" - Siobhan Fahey. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 18:59:56 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: [oztori] H-ypocrite (ot: but what isn't?) Re the H-thing (yet again).. I just realised that I would use "an" before 'historic' - eg. "it was AN historic" event... So yeah.. Maybe it's one of those amiguous rules (like about 99% of all such things) that there aren't such 'clear-cut' boundaries for. But I still wouldn't use "an" in front of *every* (or even most) h-words. Somebody ought to do a study & figure out when/not to use this... but they probably already 'ave :) Nathan. ===== "Look we've established that I was a total wanker at uni so can you just stop mentioning it? Thanks :)" - - Celia, 9th October 2002. "They don't expect boys to pretend to be nice, but they do with girls, and I'm not a nice person!" - Siobhan Fahey. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:20:18 +1100 From: "Rachael" Subject: RE: [oztori] 'tis the season to be jolly... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-oztori@smoe.org [mailto:owner-oztori@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Nathan . Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 12:37 PM To: oztori@smoe.org Subject: [oztori] 'tis the season to be jolly... > Anything else I should add while I'm at it? yes. some money so rachael can afford to buy groceries when she gets back to the uk, as she's just discovered thats she's 300 pounds overdrawn, and her overdraft limit is only 100.... :/ i havent told paul yet... rachael xxx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:27:58 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: RE: [oztori] 'tis the season to be jolly... Raych wrote: > > Anything else I should add while I'm at it? > > yes. some money so rachael can afford to buy > groceries when she gets back > to the uk, as she's just discovered thats she's 300 > pounds overdrawn, and > her overdraft limit is only 100.... :/ Fuck... Forget giving to other charities this year... Help a fellow oztorian! Nathan. ===== "Look we've established that I was a total wanker at uni so can you just stop mentioning it? Thanks :)" - - Celia, 9th October 2002. "They don't expect boys to pretend to be nice, but they do with girls, and I'm not a nice person!" - Siobhan Fahey. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:47:20 +1100 From: gnome Subject: Re: [oztori] Triple J's Crappiest Albums of everything post-1998 At 12:42 16/12/02, Nathan "." wrote: >AndrewR wrote: > > > I listen to a lot of different music - not just > > Tori - but can I just say > > HOW MUCH CRAP there is on that list!?! > >1) omg you say "can I just say" too! Ceals says that >all the time! oh, can i just say, I say that an awful lot too. (i seriously do...) and i think ceals should get herself on this list. >2) Yes I was nearly going to post some "er, HAVE there >been any decent albums this year (bar SW)?" the best album of 2002 has definitely been genevieve maynard's 'ghost notes' which everyone should buy because it's just damn fine stuff. it's been getting four star reviews everywhere, it's just a pity that none of the major labels want to touch her. SW is a pretty good album for the year except i just think it sounds too the same. does anyone else think that? Jas *** gnome http://gnome.amos.net threemilesHIGH: http://threemileshigh.mtrez.net "Women will never be allowed to save rock music, because the hero - the rebel who rises from the ashes to save rock - is always male." - - Carrie Brownstein (Sleater-Kinney) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 00:08:26 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: Re: [oztori] Triple J's Crappiest Albums of everything post-1998 Jaz gnome wrote: > oh, can i just say, I say that an awful lot too. (i > seriously do...) > and i think ceals should get herself on this list. She was contemplating the idea... > >2) Yes I was nearly going to post some "er, HAVE > there > >been any decent albums this year (bar SW)?" > > the best album of 2002 has definitely been genevieve > maynard's 'ghost > notes' which everyone should buy because it's just > damn fine stuff. it's > been getting four star reviews everywhere, I think her record co. owe you some royalties for unpaid promotion of her! I heard one of her songs on JJJ a few weeks back, but alas I was half asleep and can't remember it. And I take it she's not to be confused with Genevieve Davis, who had a brief stint in the bottom of the top 40 here circa Oct/Nov 1993 with "Sail Down To Australia" ('inspired' by the announcement of Sydney winning the 2000 games shortly beforehand). Does anyone know/remember what I am talking about here? > SW is a pretty good album for the year except i just > think it sounds too > the same. does anyone else think that? mmmmm it does seem kinda 'homogenous' as a whole, but at least it's consistent (unlike say TVAB where you've got Datura and 1000 Oceans just 2 songs apart!). Naythan. ===== "Look we've established that I was a total wanker at uni so can you just stop mentioning it? Thanks :)" - - Celia, 9th October 2002. "They don't expect boys to pretend to be nice, but they do with girls, and I'm not a nice person!" - Siobhan Fahey. Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of oztori-digest V2 #375 ****************************