From: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org (oztori-digest) To: oztori-digest@smoe.org Subject: oztori-digest V2 #329 Reply-To: oztori@smoe.org Sender: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oztori-digest Sunday, November 10 2002 Volume 02 : Number 329 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [oztori] Discourse ["Too Much" <2much@elvis.com>] Re: [oztori] Discourse (boring and extremely OT) [Nathan "®" ] Re: [oztori] Discourse (boring and extremely OT thanks to Nathan) ["Too M] Re: [oztori] Discourse = a course in 'dissing' ;) (OT - Occupational Therapist) ["riot poofter" ] Re: [oztori] Bali bomb blast ["riot poofter" ] RE: [oztori] scuzzwalk ["riot poofter" ] [oztori] John Shanks? ["li" ] [oztori] setlist for 2nd show ["Bevan Burkin" ] RE: [oztori] John Shanks? ["Bevan Burkin" ] Re: RE: [oztori] John Shanks? [Jonceski Jasmina ] Re: RE: RE: [oztori] John Shanks? [Jonceski Jasmina ] Re: RE: RE: RE: [oztori] John Shanks? [Jonceski Jasmina ] RE: RE: RE: [oztori] John Shanks? [Nathan "®" ] RE: RE: RE: [oztori] John Shanks? ["Too Much" <2much@elvis.com>] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:34:07 -0800 (PST) From: "Too Much" <2much@elvis.com> Subject: Re: [oztori] Discourse Julian did a nice job of taking the words right out of my mouth by writing: > > I don't see why Henry should have to 'dumb things > > down' just for you, Nayth. > > > > Not only is 'discourse' an acceptable word in the > > context, it is actually the only really correct > > word. > Nayth retorted: > I think medical LITERATURE is what Henry really should > have written. > No, I think it's more likely, dearest Nayth, that you just didn't understand the full meaning of "discourse" & so tried to pretend that I was being a pretentious wanker to deflect attention from your ignorance. I used the word "discourse" because "literature" would have been too specific. "Literature" is merely what knowledge is passed into the outside world via such literature as medical journals and textbooks; whereas "dominant medical discourse" includes the relationship between doctor and patient, the implicit/explicit agreement between doctors in how certain cases should be treated, the medical norms which dictate how most doctors treat their patients, and so forth. Because "discourse" does in part mean simply "conversation" and hence implies a two-way relationship between doctor and patient; whereas "literature" is a one-way distribution of knowledge. (And good little pomos will realise that I'm borrowing heavily from Foucault, & no wonder since but a few days ago I was struggling to write an essay on the bugger.) > I also hate 'literature' as well, for that matter. Don't worry, next time I'll just say "those funny squiggly lines in the really boring books with no pictures in"... Henry. - -- "We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone." - --Orson Welles - ------------------------------------------------- Get your free @Elvis e-mail account at Elvis.com! http://www.elvis.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 02:33:38 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: Re: [oztori] Discourse (boring and extremely OT) Too Much <2much@elvis.com> wrote: > No, I think it's more likely, dearest Nayth, that > you > just didn't understand the full meaning of > "discourse" > & so tried to pretend that I was being a pretentious > wanker to deflect attention from your ignorance. OK, I'm now entering "I have a 4 year university degree as well which I gained from a very fine (sic) institution" mode... so if you'd rather not read this, please don't :) Through the "fine" tertiary institution I attended, I studied 'in depth' (supposedly) the structure of normal and disordered language and human communication, and hence the topic of "discourse" was mentioned on more occasions than I care to remember. I have a grasp on the word, baby... 'less I cheated on my exams. > the implicit/explicit > agreement between doctors in how certain cases > should > be treated, the medical norms which dictate how most > doctors treat their patients, Oops - you're generalising there by suggesting MOST doctors (and should we not be using the terms 'medical practitioners' and/or 'physicians', since we are being 'specific' and all) follow these procedures. I know of a few who clearly don't :) > > I also hate 'literature' as well, for that matter. > > Don't worry, next time I'll just say "those funny > squiggly lines in the really boring books with no > pictures in"... Again, you're generalising. Quite a number of journals I came across as a student had quite abundant 'pictures', such as graphs and the like :) Nathan. ===== "They don't expect boys to pretend to be nice, but they do with girls, and I'm not a nice person!" - Siobhan Fahey. _______________________________________________________________________ U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 20:32:02 +0800 From: "Bevan Burkin" Subject: [oztori] all this discourse wankiness is why i dropped out of uni fairys are real ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 17:26:25 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Audrie=20Tiong?= Subject: [oztori] no Scarlet for meee so it's now two weeks after the release of SW and i'm still bloody waiting for the shops in Singapore to bring in the ltd ed. *tears hair* everywhere i call, they say it's the distributor's fault. didn't ask, don't care. i just wanna know when i'll get it! *sob* i'm soooo close to just buying the normal version to tide me over but that's $19 i don't really wanna spend. yet. i just had to whinge. i'm going back to John Irving now... audrie Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:39:06 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: Re: [oztori] all this discourse wankiness is why i dropped out of uni Bevan Burkin wrote: > fairys are real Also, am I the only one to think that "discourse" rather sounds like "intercourse"? Hence probably why it sends a cold shiver up my spine when I imagine a stereotypically dry, grey-suited, ag(e)ing academic uttering the word directly into my external auditory meatus (hey I learnt/learned some big words at uni too!). Nathan. ===== "They don't expect boys to pretend to be nice, but they do with girls, and I'm not a nice person!" - Siobhan Fahey. _______________________________________________________________________ U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 15:42:53 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: Re: [oztori] no Scarlet for meee Audrie Tiong wrote: > so it's now two weeks after the release of SW and > i'm still bloody waiting for > the shops in Singapore to bring in the ltd ed. > *tears hair* everywhere i call, > they say it's the distributor's fault. didn't ask, > don't care. i just wanna > know when i'll get it! *sob* i'm soooo close to just > buying the normal version > to tide me over but that's $19 i don't really wanna > spend. yet. > > i just had to whinge. i'm going back to John Irving > now... Well Audrie... I foolishly ordered a copy from the UK, thinking that I'd have a snowflake's chance in hell of waltzing into a shop and getting a copy here. But ALAS I did... So I've now got a copy of the UK "Limited Edition" SW sitting at the post office awaiting my collection. I must say I wasn't THAT impressed with the darn thing that I want/need TWO fucking copies.. so if you or anyone else wants the UK one (though apparently the UK pressing doesn't come with the 2 cent crappy Kinder-Surprise-esque "charm", and only comes with 4 as opposed to 12 utterly pointless polaroids [lol that words sounds too close to haemorrhoids for comfort]), I'll consider whoring it out to you. All correspondence/ance? (I should know how to spell this, but cunt be bothered looking it up) to the usual address if you/anyone else is "interested" in my crappy hand-me-downs :P Nathan. ===== "They don't expect boys to pretend to be nice, but they do with girls, and I'm not a nice person!" - Siobhan Fahey. _______________________________________________________________________ U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 19:04:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Too Much" <2much@elvis.com> Subject: Re: [oztori] Discourse (boring and extremely OT thanks to Nathan) Nathan "." wrote: > Through the "fine" tertiary institution I attended, I > studied 'in depth' (supposedly) the structure of > normal and disordered language and human > communication, and hence the topic of "discourse" was > mentioned on more occasions than I care to remember. > I have a grasp on the word, baby... 'less I cheated on > my exams. > Then why did you protest my usage of the word in the first place? As Julian said, it really is the only appropriate word I could have used. > > > the implicit/explicit > > agreement between doctors in how certain cases > > should > > be treated, the medical norms which dictate how most > > doctors treat their patients, > > Oops - you're generalising there by suggesting MOST > doctors (and should we not be using the terms 'medical > practitioners' and/or 'physicians', since we are being > 'specific' and all) follow these procedures. I know > of a few who clearly don't :) > *polite cough* To put my words back into context, I qualified my remarks originally by using the phrase "DOMINANT medical discourse" (and hence my use of the word "doctors" becomes quite specific within that context). "Most" does not equal "all", so the existence of "a few who clearly don't" makes no difference to my usage of the word. > > > > I also hate 'literature' as well, for that matter. > > > > Don't worry, next time I'll just say "those funny > > squiggly lines in the really boring books with no > > pictures in"... > > Again, you're generalising. Quite a number of > journals I came across as a student had quite abundant > 'pictures', such as graphs and the like :) Well, at least my (very occassional) generalisations don't harm or offend, unlike most of yours. Henry. - -- "We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone." - --Orson Welles - ------------------------------------------------- Get your free @Elvis e-mail account at Elvis.com! http://www.elvis.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:07:55 +1100 From: "riot poofter" Subject: Re: [oztori] Discourse = a course in 'dissing' ;) (OT - Occupational Therapist) >OMG I'm sorry, but "discourse" is one of THE wankiest >words ever invented. It's OK to use less 'impressive' >vocab from time to time. Less is more, baby. The "less is more" argument in terms of word usage is definitely one i would echo, since too many people use bigger words than they need to when more accesible language would have made the same point just as easily. HOWEVER, discourse is an extremely useful term and isn't that difficult to understand or use; it merely finds its word origin in 'discuss' and hence refers to a communication process which is not instructive but involves debate and contestation (although not necessarily in an equal manner, of course). Nor is it a particularly 'impressive' word. I am forced to concur with messrs pinder and... um... shawcroft (or something - sorry henry) in stipulating that your discurive framework is perhaps a touch banal and limited... Try some discourse today! Roozi ps. Before responding to this email, please recakll what you may or may not have learnt in 8th grade about irony. That's another useful and not-very-big word we can all use... _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:20:03 +1000 From: "nina riddel" Subject: Re: [oztori] Discourse (boring and extremely OT) AMEN TO THAT > > the implicit/explicit > > agreement between doctors in how certain cases > > should > > be treated, the medical norms which dictate how most > > doctors treat their patients, > >Oops - you're generalising there by suggesting MOST >doctors (and should we not be using the terms 'medical >practitioners' and/or 'physicians', since we are being >'specific' and all) follow these procedures. I know >of a few who clearly don't :) nope, i think the word "dominant" in dominant medical discourse covers that. But come ON, it was an interesting and well-written rant! who cares? _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:20:48 +1100 From: "riot poofter" Subject: [oztori] MP (not Melrose Place, but just as good) >I'm surprised MP (don't think I've seen anyone >abbreviate More Pink to that before) sells for what it >does these days.. I saw heaps of 'em when it was out. >And it only propelled UTP back to #44 on the albums >chart here, so it can't have all sold out str8 away.. >even though she was touring here at the time. you answered this yourself. it is so vaulable because it was australia/nz only and the pressingw as actually relatively small. the main problem, is that there are probably thjousands of copies owned by people who don't really like tori that much who don't know thats its valuable, since the MP edition of UTP came out when tori toured and she was briefly kind of cool with the indie set... hence why you should *always* look for it in seconfd hand stores, the more crappy and suburban the better. Both myself and a friend have picked up copies for les sthan 20 bucks this way. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:25:39 +1000 From: "nina riddel" Subject: Re: [oztori] no Scarlet for meee >All correspondence/ance? (I should know how to spell >this, but cunt be bothered looking it up) to the usual >address if you/anyone else is "interested" in my >crappy hand-me-downs :P it's correspondEnce, which is counter-intuitive (what a sexy word!) because it sounds like it should be Ance. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:34:20 +1100 From: "riot poofter" Subject: Re: [oztori] Bali bomb blast > > I'm just curious, Nadyne is there any coverage of > > this horrible event on > > US television? CNN are talking about > > bugger all, and BBC world > > are reporting on David Beckham or something. > >Well J-Lo and David Beckham *are* more important :P > >But nah, what really annoys me about these things is >that, eg. on the front page of today's local paper, >they have "Cats (the local football team) close to >tragedy" as in.. "OMG! Never mind the ordinary >civillians, some FOOTBALLERS actually may have been >killed in the blast!" what *really* annoys *me* is that the whole world is expected to give a shit about dead australians... why? because they are white. you see very little about the balinese victims of the bombing (none of whom were allowed into australia for treatment, despite the fact that german and english tourists were - but of ocurse no one calls them "illegal immigrants" they're just desperate people who need help!) and we sure as hell don't get daily (or any) updates about the numbers of people killed by "cold and calculting" state sponsored terrorism in afganistan, iraq or palestine... yet more people die in those places every day than died in the bali bombing... but they weren't *white* so no-one is sending annoyed email about why bbc world isn't covering their tragedy. don't get me wrong... no one who dies or was injured in bali deserved it or anything and it was tragic indeed, but i'm really over being expected to care by people who largely support the institutions (ie the us and israeli governments) who are repsonsible for the bvast majority of detahs through terrorism in our world. nb. this is not aimed at anyone's commets in particlar, just at the seemingly quite general sense of outrage (call it a 'dominant discourse' if you like) at the prospect that maybe some people don't *particularly* (ie there are so many things to be *more* concerned about) fucking care about the deaths of people in bali. we can only hopoe australians aren't stupid enough to allow a moronic government have free reign too 'go after terrorists' (aka. protect their overseas interests) by killing thousands of iraqis... again life is shit. roozi *essaymodepleasekillme* _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 20:39:48 -0800 (PST) From: "Too Much" <2much@elvis.com> Subject: [oztori] Scarlet Stories There is a promo CD of "Scarlet Stories", a track-by-track commentary by Tori on SW, available: http://www.thedent.com/scarletstories.html (I've seen quite a few of the 2 CD sets for sale on eBay at fairly reasonable prices, along with many of the trinkets...) If you read the URL, it is said that apparently there are Aussie versions of this promo CD around the place. Has anyone come across it??? (It's suggested that this was an HMV-driven promo, but there's nothing on hmv.com.au...) Henry. - -- "We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone." - --Orson Welles - ------------------------------------------------- Get your free @Elvis e-mail account at Elvis.com! http://www.elvis.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:42:16 +1100 From: "riot poofter" Subject: RE: [oztori] scuzzwalk >Did you mean to write Dan H? *confused* :) err.. yes, yes i did. sorry dangy, i am not used to referring to him as dan h anymore... especially since i don't even call him dan. oh well, thatw as confusing... sorry folks! > >am i the only one who doesn't lerve Gold Dust? (yet.) In fact the last > >three tracks are a bit... slow. > >yes, yes you are. hopefully. although dan g (remeber him, folks?) is trying >to insist he hates the whole new album... > _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 12:52:48 +0800 From: "Bevan Burkin" Subject: RE: [oztori] MP (not Melrose Place, but just as good) amen sister roozi, i got my copy of more pink for 15 dollars at the gosnells railway markets. it doesn't come more suburban than gosnells :P - -----Original Message----- From: owner-oztori@smoe.org [mailto:owner-oztori@smoe.org]On Behalf Of riot poofter Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:21 PM To: oztori@smoe.org Subject: [oztori] MP (not Melrose Place, but just as good) >I'm surprised MP (don't think I've seen anyone >abbreviate More Pink to that before) sells for what it >does these days.. I saw heaps of 'em when it was out. >And it only propelled UTP back to #44 on the albums >chart here, so it can't have all sold out str8 away.. >even though she was touring here at the time. you answered this yourself. it is so vaulable because it was australia/nz only and the pressingw as actually relatively small. the main problem, is that there are probably thjousands of copies owned by people who don't really like tori that much who don't know thats its valuable, since the MP edition of UTP came out when tori toured and she was briefly kind of cool with the indie set... hence why you should *always* look for it in seconfd hand stores, the more crappy and suburban the better. Both myself and a friend have picked up copies for les sthan 20 bucks this way. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:51:23 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: Re: [oztori] Scarlet Stories Henry Sure-is-Cross <2much@elvis.com> wrote: > There is a promo CD of "Scarlet Stories", a > track-by-track commentary by Tori on SW, available: > > http://www.thedent.com/scarletstories.html > > (I've seen quite a few of the 2 CD sets for sale on > eBay at fairly reasonable prices, along with many of > the trinkets...) You can d/load the tracks from www.collectingbees.com for nothing. I did so over a week ago, yet have only listened to half of it. While some of the comments are interesting... to the average listener, it will just sound like Tori forgot to take her meds (again) the day she recorded those. Also, it irks me on it how Tori takes...... like... 20 second... pauses during..... nearly every.... you know.... sentence on the.... the, uh.... disc. Yes we know you have 'really deep thoughts' that take you a while to think of in order to articulate them as clearly (not) as you do, Tori.. but what is so amazing about them, to quote a lyric of your own ;) re: the course in dissing: > Then why did you protest my usage of the word in the > first place? Because I like being difficult. > > Again, you're generalising. Quite a number of > > journals I came across as a student had quite > abundant > > 'pictures', such as graphs and the like :) > > Well, at least my (very occassional) generalisations > don't harm or offend, unlike most of yours. Youch. Naffin' ===== "They don't expect boys to pretend to be nice, but they do with girls, and I'm not a nice person!" - Siobhan Fahey. _______________________________________________________________________ U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:20:41 +1030 From: "li" Subject: [oztori] John Shanks? Was Beene once a man???? Under the lyrics for "Crucify" at hereinmyhead.com it says "Mandolin: John Shanks (Beene)" Explain? - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 10/24/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:28:05 +0800 From: "Bevan Burkin" Subject: [oztori] setlist for 2nd show she played for over two hours again. what a bitch. *really* rub it in. *grumpy* wampum prayer fairytale sugar sweet sangria past the mission pancake mrs. jesus crucify concertina wednesday black dove - -solo- icicle opp (she wrote this w/ her friend meg) landslide mr. zebra - -band- putting the damage on another girl's paradise take to the sky caught a lite sneeze hotel i cant see ny spring haze encore- sister janet - solo virginia tear in your hand encore voodoo hey jupiter ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:38:13 +0800 From: "Bevan Burkin" Subject: RE: [oztori] John Shanks? Perhaps a relative of hers? Nayth will probably know lol - -----Original Message----- From: owner-oztori@smoe.org [mailto:owner-oztori@smoe.org]On Behalf Of li Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 2:51 PM To: OzTori Subject: [oztori] John Shanks? Was Beene once a man???? Under the lyrics for "Crucify" at hereinmyhead.com it says "Mandolin: John Shanks (Beene)" Explain? - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 10/24/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:35:49 +1100 From: Jonceski Jasmina Subject: Re: RE: [oztori] John Shanks? Bevs: > Perhaps a relative of hers? Nayth will probably know lol to li: > Was Beene once a man???? Under the lyrics for "Crucify" at > hereinmyhead.comit says "Mandolin: John Shanks (Beene)" but it says Beenie in parenthesis so....this is damn intriguing. I wanna know what that is all about too! What the hell happened to Nancy Shanks?? Jas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:40:52 +1030 From: "li" Subject: RE: RE: [oztori] John Shanks? Jas said: "but it says Beenie in parenthesis so....this is damn intriguing. I wanna know what that is all about too! What the hell happened to Nancy Shanks??" I wanna know too! Maybe they went out but then decided they'd be better friends - and Beene got the operation to make the friendship less awkward. - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 10/24/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:42:21 +1100 From: Jonceski Jasmina Subject: Re: RE: RE: [oztori] John Shanks? > I wanna know too! Maybe they went out but then decided they'd be > betterfriends - and Beene got the operation to make the friendship > less awkward. Cos you know, then the interp that Henry gave on SW a while back could sorta hold up with that, couldn't it? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:47:24 +1030 From: "li" Subject: RE: RE: RE: [oztori] John Shanks? Jas: "Cos you know, then the interp that Henry gave on SW a while back could sorta hold up with that, couldn't it?" What was Henry's interpretation? I must've missed it. This must be why she refers to her as "Beene" - it was too weird calling her "Nancy". - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.408 / Virus Database: 230 - Release Date: 10/24/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:54:19 +1100 From: Jonceski Jasmina Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: [oztori] John Shanks? > "Cos you know, then the interp that Henry gave on SW a while back > couldsorta hold up with that, couldn't it?" > > What was Henry's interpretation? I must've missed it. > > This must be why she refers to her as "Beene" - it was too weird > calling her > "Nancy". Going back to July 10, 2002 (i can't believe I have this email..) Toomuch wrote: > my theory is that Tori is having an affair with a > transman, or at least writing about one... here's why... > > " I pull the hood right back where > you could taste heaven perfectly" > > Pulling back the hood *obviously* refers to > metoidoplasty--an operation performed on transmen > whereby the clitoris is released ("pulled back") from > its "hood" and therefore resembles a small penis. > (Bearing in mind that testosterone, administred to > transmen, enlarges the clitoris substantially.) See > here for a technical reference: > > http://torque.ftmaustralia.org/02/06/08.html > > "That girl come undone" is also an oblique reference to > a female-born man. And the whole song seems to be about > moving on, transitioning... > > Well, why not?? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:35:48 +0800 From: "ennui" Subject: [oztori] Lamb Shanks Well the full listing is: "Tori Amos, Jeff Scott, Carlo Nuccio, Ed Green, Paulinho DaCosta, John Shanks (Beene), Steve Caton, Will McGregor, Eric Rosse, Nick DeCaro, Philly, Jake Freeze, Phil Shenale, Paulinho DaCosta, Eric Williams, Matthew Seligman, Chris Hughes, David Rhodes, David Lord, Stuart Gordon, Will Gregory, Jef Scott, Nancy Shanks (Beenie)" so maybe the listing is chronological - Beene is the before, and Beenie the after. "beenie" being the feminine construct of the word "beene" :) i don't know though, John Shanks is a real person, he is Melissa Etheridge's guitar player (and basically co-writer) - maybe it was just an in-joke when they were making the album..? ennuie [ pankake ] _ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:39:38 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan "®" Subject: RE: RE: RE: [oztori] John Shanks? li wrote: > This must be why she refers to her as "Beene" - it > was too weird calling her > "Nancy". 'less Beene was a man first (ie, John), and then became a woman.... Hence "Nancy" as in.. "nancy boy" :P 'twould make more sense than the other way 'round.. as Tori credited her as "John" on one of her *earliest* choonz... but she has since been credited as Nancy. Nathan. ===== "They don't expect boys to pretend to be nice, but they do with girls, and I'm not a nice person!" - Siobhan Fahey. _______________________________________________________________________ U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:08:48 -0800 (PST) From: "Too Much" <2much@elvis.com> Subject: RE: RE: RE: [oztori] John Shanks? Nathan "." wrote: > 'less Beene was a man first (ie, John), and then > became a woman.... Hence "Nancy" as in.. "nancy boy" > :P > I really resent your insinuation that male-to-female transsexuals have anything to do with effeminate gay men. Just so you know (& just to add another offensive generalisation by Nathan to the tally)... > 'twould make more sense than the other way 'round.. as > Tori credited her as "John" on one of her *earliest* > choonz... but she has since been credited as Nancy. Actually, Beene is credited as "Nancy Shanks (Beene)" for providing backing vocals to Etienne on YKTR... Henry. - -- "We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone." - --Orson Welles - ------------------------------------------------- Get your free @Elvis e-mail account at Elvis.com! http://www.elvis.com ------------------------------ End of oztori-digest V2 #329 ****************************