From: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org (oztori-digest) To: oztori-digest@smoe.org Subject: oztori-digest V2 #25 Reply-To: oztori@smoe.org Sender: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oztori-digest Thursday, January 24 2002 Volume 02 : Number 025 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [oztori] yay [no tori content] [Daniel G ] RE: [oztori] "Taught me so well how to SPELL.." - Re: to AndrewR's somewhat "ot" queries. ::or:: Who, What, Why, Wear With Great Unc ennui [] Re: [oztori] "Taught me so well how to SPELL.." - Re: to AndrewR's somewhat "ot" queries. [Becc ] [oztori] Now is the time!! [AndrewR ] RE: [oztori] yay [no tori content] ["Dylan Plant" ] [oztori] Those JJJ BASTARDS! [AndrewR ] Re: [oztori] This e-mail makes the gonorrhea exchanged between lil dan and Tessa look velvetine to the list [] Re: [oztori] Those JJJ BASTARDS! [Becc ] Re: [oztori] Those JJJ BASTARDS! [Nathan R ] RE: [oztori] I aint changed this subject, the outlook's just gun bung ["e] [none] [Kate Findlay ] [oztori] Real Net 50 Voting Men [Nathan R ] [oztori] Re: [Nathan R ] [oztori] No one's picking up my nose (Re: ennui) [Nathan R ] Re: [oztori] Those JJJ BASTARDS! [AndrewR ] Re: [oztori] No one's picking up some milk [AndrewR ] [oztori] [ozgarbage] ["Dylan Plant" ] Re: [oztori] net 50 and hottest 100 [Nathan R ] Re: [oztori] [ozgarbage] [Daniel G ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:03:31 +1100 From: Daniel G Subject: [oztori] yay [no tori content] garbage are so good live. i'm too hyped to say anymore. maybe now is the time to clean my room. dan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I Have a fish nailed to a cross on my apartment wall It sings to me with glassy eyes and quotes from Kafka. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OzTori - http://www.oztori.org For all your Australasian Tori Amos needs. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:06:47 +0800 From: "ennui" Subject: RE: [oztori] "Taught me so well how to SPELL.." - Re: to AndrewR's somewhat "ot" queries. ::or:: Who, What, Why, Wear With Great Unc ennui >Knaethogn. I think I've got one of those. I keep it next to my "thong with blue sequins" and "thong with a huge pointy codpiece". HeWhoAlsoSaid// >Shouldn't that be there're (as in 'there ARE') some >words to look up? Since it's plural. Tsk tsk ennui >not getting your noun-verb agreement correct.. I have >seen some SHOCKING abuse of this in the local >'news'paper in just the past few days.. I think a >national education campaign about this should be made. Phuck! Yes, you are correct. I shall not contract words in future, it makes me appear somewhat likened to redneck trailer trash. Those of you on the list who are redneck trailer trash may continue with this practice however. Then there was some stuff about enunciation// This must be the first "on topic" stuff I have read here for ages. Tori really should write her own book of enunciations... >I think everyone was taught "diddly squat" at school >really. Haha you obviously went to a private school. We of the lowly public schooling didn't even get taught "diddly squat", I think it was some cheap derivative like "fiddly kumquat". >Well on one of my student placement assessment forms, >the stupid bitch made not one, not two, but THREE >spelling mistakes - "concious", "begining", and one >other I can't remember. I don't think I have mentioned it onlist, but as a hobby I do Jungian interpretations of people with severe emotional problems. Gosh, where to start? ;) >I think China is OK. oh god. I think this is as good a place as any... >It's like that 'classic example' or whatever that >appears in text-books - "fish" might as well we >spelled "ghoti" for what it's worth ['gh' from >'enough' for 'f'; 'o' from 'women' for the 'i'; and >'ti' from 'station' fro the 'sh']. It was that bloody Shakespeare. Making up words as he went, dribbling bollocks, ripping off Francis Bacon and the Norwegians... :) ennui [ the 'Unc' stands for eunuch ;) ] "Oh, yes! The eunuchs! I do wish I owned one." "I wish I'd married one."_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:09:04 +1000 From: Becc Subject: Re: [oztori] "Taught me so well how to SPELL.." - Re: to AndrewR's somewhat "ot" queries. On Wednesday, 23/01/2002 at 5:12 PM, Nathan R wrote: NR> It's only listed as a noun in my "Pocket" (sic - I'd NR> like to see anyone with pocket big enough to fit it NR> in) Oxford Dictionary. I've never heard it used as an NR> adjective. But then I "don't get out much". Hell. I'd only ever have said it was a noun, too. Feeling a little shaken by Mr Tolkien now, I must say. :S NR> I think China is OK. I love the video to it (which NR> some people seem to hate?). China is certainly better NR> than 1000 Oceans anyway IMNSHO. It's just.. maybe.. a NR> tad too much like something an 'easy listening' radio NR> station would play. Maybe the China-bashers will grow NR> to appreciate it once they hit 45. I don't think China's really 'fake emotional'; it's just not very interesting. There's nothing objectionable about it. It's just kinda ordinary. NR> Oh as does anything.. Even 'All the Girls Hate Her' NR> and 'Over It' have better lyrics than 1000 Oceans ;) Y'know, I prefer 1000 Oceans to China. *sits back and waits for the raining of rotten tomatoes* NR> (the beta sign is) a double s. I don't think it's pronounced any NR> differently than a normal s.. I think it might just be an acknowledgement of the way it's pronounced. It's usually followed by an e, isn't it? 'Strasse' and 'heisse' for example, which you pronounce 'strars-sah' and 'hais-sah' respectively. I think the double s of the estset is just an acknowledgement of the s being present in both syllables. NR> The vowel-spelling system in English is STOOPID. Ohhhh yeah. Ne'er was a truer word spoken. Much about English spelling is stoopid. As insane as I'm driven by spelling errors and the like, it's difficult to hold a grudge when the spelling of the language is so damned inconsistent. ~Becc, who just came home all excited and ready to post to the list that she'd found a magazine with Tozza on the front and a six? eight? page article inside... and just realised the damned thing's from Oct 2001... LOL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:58:20 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: [oztori] Thar be Tori content here! At 20:09 23/01/2002 +1000, Becc wrote: >On Wednesday, 23/01/2002 at 5:12 PM, Nathan R wrote: > >~Becc, who just came home all excited and ready to post to the list >that she'd found a magazine with Tozza on the front and a six? eight? >page article inside... and just realised the damned thing's from Oct 2001... LOL > Is that the one with Tori up against a white wall... and the cover has a caption with something like "Listening with Mother" or something. "Mother the core is here; somebody leave a light on just in case I like to remember where I come from" Forgive me if they are the incorrect lyrics - that's one damn awesome song though! Enya Fans and Cable subscribers - I think Enya is on "Larry King Live" tonight - or has been on - I've had the video running. FANCY stoopid STING winning the Golden Globe for " Best Song". Pah. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:07:37 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: [oztori] Now is the time!! Now is the time to go and vote this week for the JJJ Net 50: http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/net50/vote.htm Tori last week - on the 19th was 17! 17 TW 17 LW 15No.W in chart. It's just that and that System of a Down that have been in there the longest, both 15 weeks, the next longest is some "Gorillaz" song, which has been in for 14 weeks. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:48:20 +1100 From: "Dylan Plant" Subject: RE: [oztori] yay [no tori content] Hate u!!! I can't afford to go the concert at the Metro next Tues...its killing me here!!! Oh well, will have to go psycho @ BDO instead...*sigh* And in news just to hand (sic) Kylie spesh on Channel V tonite twas good...hee, hee, hee...go Kyles!!! And dare I say this, there is a bit in the Breathe vid clip that kinda looks like the front cover of FTCH. Odd. Still hate men. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-oztori@smoe.org [mailto:owner-oztori@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Daniel G Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 9:04 PM To: oztori@smoe.org Subject: [oztori] yay [no tori content] garbage are so good live. i'm too hyped to say anymore. maybe now is the time to clean my room. dan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I Have a fish nailed to a cross on my apartment wall It sings to me with glassy eyes and quotes from Kafka. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OzTori - http://www.oztori.org For all your Australasian Tori Amos needs. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 04:05:34 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan R Subject: [oztori] This e-mail makes the logorrhea expressed between lil dan and Tessa look relevent to the list [ot if you hadn't already guessed by now] ennui "pronounced 'on wee'" wrote: > >Knaethogn. > > I think I've got one of those. I keep it next to my > "thong with blue sequins" > and "thong with a huge pointy codpiece". Oh I bet they look stunning on you. "Got any pics?" ;) > HeWhoAlsoSaid// That was my *old* e-mail address that I was subscribed to the list with - get with the times! > Then there was some stuff about enunciation// > This must be the first "on topic" stuff I have read > here for ages. Tori > really should write her own book of enunciations... I think not! That woman is dysarthric. (*now there's a term for you to look up). > Haha you obviously went to a private school. I didn't actually... *believe it, or not* > We of > the lowly public > schooling didn't even get taught "diddly squat", I > think it was some > cheap derivative like "fiddly kumquat". Schools are 'orrid places really. > I don't think I have mentioned it onlist, but as a > hobby I do Jungian > interpretations of people with severe emotional > problems. Gosh, where to > start? ;) Do you also do them on people with 'mild' and 'moderate' emotional problems is the question. Nathan. PS - AndrewR.. my Mariah Carey post-card hasn't arrived yet.. *oh the unbearable wait* PPS - No, I do not like Mariah Carey. . Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 04:10:01 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan R Subject: [oztori] Still Hate Men (Re: Dylan) Dylan Plant wrote: > Hate u!!! I can't afford to go the concert at the > Metro next Tues...its > killing me here!!! I take it you've not had any luck in the 'seeking a sugardaddy' stakes since your last post to the list. > Still hate men. That would be a cool title for Tori's next album! hehehe... It would be so 'tongue-in-cheek'. Would have made an even better title for StrangeLittleGirls, if you ask me. Nathan. . Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:13:52 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: [oztori] Those JJJ BASTARDS! The Net 50 page, has that list to choose from. Well they've REMOVED Strange Little Girl! Bastards! Get the word out to the Dent - whoever posts there - that's rigging it more than we do! ;o) They clearly don't want to PLAY the song - let's MAKE them - - everyone go here: http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/net50/vote.htm And TYPE in Strange Little Girl and Tori Amos! NOW! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:21:08 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] This e-mail makes the gonorrhea exchanged between lil dan and Tessa look velvetine to the list At 04:05 23/01/2002 -0800, Nathan R wrote: >PS - AndrewR.. my Mariah Carey post-card hasn't >arrived yet.. *oh the unbearable wait* LOL! I haven't had a chance to get to the Post orafice yet! Will do tomorrow. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:20:06 +1000 From: Becc Subject: Re: [oztori] Those JJJ BASTARDS! On Wednesday, 23/01/2002 at 10:13 PM, AndrewR wrote: A> The Net 50 page, has that list to choose from. Well they've REMOVED Strange A> Little Girl! Bastards! I know! I scrolled through the list three or four times, wondering if the whole thing was in alphabetical order /except/ Strange Little Girl, but finally had to resort to typing it in, too. >:) How bloody rude. Especially considering it was on #17 last week. Then again, if we were to continue voting for it - and let's be honest, we're the ones keeping it where it is! - it's quite conceivable that it could be on the chart forever, which might be kind of novel to us but if the fans of 50 artists got it to their heads to do the same thing, JJJ would have some problems. That being the case, I daresay if we type Strange Little Girl in, we'll probably get no more heed paid to us as when we all voted for Winter. Maybe it's time to admit defeat... ~Becc. :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 06:06:36 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan R Subject: Re: [oztori] Those JJJ BASTARDS! AndrewR wrote: > The Net 50 page, has that list to choose from. Well > they've REMOVED Strange > Little Girl! Bastards! Heheeh that's kinda funny. Maybe they cottoned on to what was happening ;) Or maybe they just decided it was time for some "new blood", given SLG's longevity. Tired Little Nayth. . Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:03:41 +0800 From: "ennui" Subject: RE: [oztori] I aint changed this subject, the outlook's just gun bung ennui 'on wee' talked some crap but I wasn't really listening// Why do I always feel a bit dumb when I read a reply from your good self, Nathan? >I think not! That woman is dysarthric. (*now there's >a term for you to look up). No, I do actually know that one. B33something "Human Computer Interactions" - those who most commonly make use of speech recognition software usually suffer from some sort of neuro-degenerative condition, which is often accompanied by reduced sensory capacity such as the inability to articulate words correctly. See?? I have learnt something in five years of university, now won't someone please give me a degree? :) I did have to look up "logorrhoea" though. It is obviously one of those words that one is pretty sure of what its meaning is but would prefer to check all the same for fear of getting the wrong end of the log ;) I think though that the word you were searching for is "loquacious"... >Do you also do them on people with 'mild' and >'moderate' emotional problems is the question. I have never met such a person. You know. I'm having this Tori revival. Just her at work and at home. Every day. And I think I've grown apart from Little Earthquakes (the album), we are not really friends any more. Mother does come around to share a glass of raspberry cola occasionally but for the rest I'm pretending I've just popped out to the shops. They can hear TVenusaB playing really soft when they put their ear to the key hole, but when they ring I won't answer the phone... Bjork too (I always pronounce it Bee-ork, Andrew - like on One Day) - I'm in love with Homogenic and all the rest seem plain. We need some new album news... ennui [ lnk/act ] _ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:45:49 +1100 From: Kate Findlay Subject: [none] Okay - something is weird. I sent this email last night and i get on this morning and it still hasn't arrived. Anyway - i was just trying to find out how i can change to digest form. Can i do it without un-subbing or do i have to un-sub and re-sub? Cheers! Akte ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:42:26 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan R Subject: [oztori] Real Net 50 Voting Men Becc wrote: > Maybe it's time to admit defeat... 'Cause there's bonafide Net 50 voters running past you now and you just drag your feet. Nathan. . Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:05:46 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan R Subject: [oztori] Re: Kate Findlay wrote: > Okay - something is weird. I sent this email last > night and i get on this > morning and it still hasn't arrived. That happens to me from time-to-time dear. But I thought it was just a Yahoo thing. Maybe someone is blocking our brilliant e-mails from getting to the list :P (Mr. G you've been awful quiet of late.. ;) > Anyway - i was just trying to find out how i can > change to digest form. Can > i do it without un-subbing or do i have to un-sub > and re-sub? Why not just Sub Sub - "if there ain't no love then there ain't no use". Nathan. . Great stuff seeing new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:30:12 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan R Subject: [oztori] No one's picking up my nose (Re: ennui) ennui wrote: > I did have to look up "logorrhoea" though. It is > obviously one of those > words that one is pretty sure of what its meaning is > but would prefer > to check all the same for fear of getting the wrong > end of the log ;) > I think though that the word you were searching for > is "loquacious"... No dear. "Logorrhoea" is an actual word meaning 'verbal diarrhoea" ;) And I was looking for a noun, not a verb. So, 'loquacity' should have been your suggestion. (*although I did have to look up these words). > You know. I'm having this Tori revival. Just her at > work and at home. > Every day. And I think I've grown apart from Little > Earthquakes (the > album), we are not really friends any more. Mother > does come around to > share a glass of raspberry cola occasionally but for > the rest I'm > pretending I've just popped out to the shops. They > can hear TVenusaB > playing really soft when they put their ear to the > key hole, but when they > ring I won't answer the phone... "No one's picking up the phone"... Another case of life imitating "art" (sic)? Although.. I must now confess that I hate that line of "Hey Jupiter".. and a few others. For whatever reason, I always imagine Tori's just eaten a disgustingly greasy leg of chicken from KFC before she recorded that line. *eeeuiick* 'Specially on the "PICKing". I think Hey Jupiter is sweet.. but needs to be filed under "China" - as in, "hardly the best thing Tori's ever done, but not quite deserving of a place in the same category as Sister Named Desire or 1000 Oceans". Hey Jupiter is SO over-rated IMNSHO. > Bjork too (I always > pronounce it > Bee-ork, Andrew - like on One Day) - I'm in love > with Homogenic and > all the rest seem plain. We need some new album > news... *shudder* Homogenic has always been my fave Bjork album too.. I never listen to the others (spare the brill 'Army of Me' and 'Hyperballad' on Post). Although I never listen to Homogenic either anymore. Nathan. . Great stuff seeing new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:02:46 +1100 From: "Jasmina J" Subject: [oztori] net 50 and hottest 100 ahoy, just curious is the net50 gonna be on this saturday??? hottest 100 followed by the net50 - too much of a countdown if you ask me..... anyone know if it will go on? the way i see it with the net50 is that if you do write it in they should still accept it because it was in last weeks chart..but then chop suey by SOAD is also missing from the list so maybe they have a 15 week limit....who knows...(gonna ask in the guestbook and hope someone answers...) my guess for the hottest 100 is either in the bottom half or it could be in the 20s thats it jas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:17:35 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] Those JJJ BASTARDS! At 22:20 23/01/2002 +1000, Becc wrote: >On Wednesday, 23/01/2002 at 10:13 PM, AndrewR wrote: > >A> The Net 50 page, has that list to choose from. Well they've REMOVED Strange >A> Little Girl! Bastards! > >I know! I scrolled through the list three or four times, wondering if >the whole thing was in alphabetical order /except/ Strange Little >Girl, but finally had to resort to typing it in, too. >:) How bloody >rude. Especially considering it was on #17 last week. > >Then again, if we were to continue voting for it - and let's be >honest, we're the ones keeping it where it is! - it's quite conceivable that >it could be on the chart forever, which might be kind of novel to us >but if the fans of 50 artists got it to their heads to do the same >thing, JJJ would have some problems. > >That being the case, I daresay if we type Strange Little Girl in, >we'll probably get no more heed paid to us as when we all voted for >Winter. Maybe it's time to admit defeat... > Yeah, I thought it might be a 'time' factor - but we'll - that "Gorillaz" song is still listed. I noticed that that Chop Suey song isn't listed... but what's a bet it'll be there next week. So I say VOTE! There must be more than just US keeping it in the list - especially that far up! >~Becc. :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:44:07 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] No one's picking up some milk At 19:30 23/01/2002 -0800, Nathan R wrote: >ennui wrote: >"No one's picking up the phone"... Another case of >life imitating "art" (sic)? Although.. I must now >confess that I hate that line of "Hey Jupiter".. and a >few others. For whatever reason, I always imagine >Tori's just eaten a disgustingly greasy leg of chicken >from KFC before she recorded that line. *eeeuiick* >'Specially on the "PICKing". > >I think Hey Jupiter is sweet.. but needs to be filed >under "China" - as in, "hardly the best thing Tori's >ever done, but not quite deserving of a place in the >same category as Sister Named Desire or 1000 Oceans". >Hey Jupiter is SO over-rated IMNSHO. Oh your not so humble opinion SUCKS ;o) Heyya Jupee is a lovely song - I especially love the... 'Dakota version' is it... Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:46:35 +1000 From: AndrewR Subject: Re: [oztori] net 50 and hottest 100 At 11:02 24/01/2002 +1100, Jasmina J wrote: >ahoy, > >just curious > >is the net50 gonna be on this saturday??? >hottest 100 followed by the net50 - too much of a countdown if you ask >me..... >anyone know if it will go on? > >the way i see it with the net50 is that if you do write it in they should >still accept it because it was in last weeks chart..but then chop suey by SOAD >is also missing from the list so maybe they have a 15 week limit....who >knows...(gonna ask in the guestbook and hope someone answers...) > >my guess for the hottest 100 is either in the bottom half or it could be in >the 20s > >thats it > >jas > Has Voting finished for the Hottest 100? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:18:20 +1100 From: "Dylan Plant" Subject: [oztori] [ozgarbage] Garbage channel v too excited!!!! They're in the country!!!!! Can't wait for BDO!!!!!!! *prances around ecstatically* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:47:35 -0800 (PST) From: Nathan R Subject: Re: [oztori] net 50 and hottest 100 Jasmina J wrote: > the way i see it with the net50 is that if you do > write it in they should > still accept it because it was in last weeks > chart..but then chop suey by SOAD > is also missing from the list so maybe they have a > 15 week limit....who > knows...(gonna ask in the guestbook and hope someone > answers...) > > my guess for the hottest 100 is either in the bottom > half or it could be in > the 20s Hey. *I just had a sudden brain-wave* Maybe SLG has been deleted from that list because they know it made the Hottest 100 and therefore thought it had 'run its course' and 'twas time to get rid of it? Then again, maybe not. then AndrewR spat: > Oh your not so humble opinion SUCKS ;o) > Heyya Jupee is a lovely song - I especially love > the... 'Dakota version' is it... I didn't say it wasn't nice. Actually.. now I'm wondering even why I seemingly "bashed" it - since the vid is possibly my fave Tori vid. NaTHaN. . Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:34:40 +1100 From: Daniel G Subject: Re: [oztori] [ozgarbage] ah, but will they do a version of "can't get you out of my head" there?? it was SOOOOOOOOOO good!!!!!!! *dances around in rememberance* dan At 05:18 PM 24/01/02 +1100, Dylan Plant wrote: >Garbage channel v too excited!!!! They're in the country!!!!! Can't wait >for BDO!!!!!!! >*prances around ecstatically* ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I Have a fish nailed to a cross on my apartment wall It sings to me with glassy eyes and quotes from Kafka. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OzTori - http://www.oztori.org For all your Australasian Tori Amos needs. ------------------------------ End of oztori-digest V2 #25 ***************************