From: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org (oztori-digest) To: oztori-digest@smoe.org Subject: oztori-digest V1 #147 Reply-To: oztori@smoe.org Sender: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oztori-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oztori-digest Wednesday, September 12 2001 Volume 01 : Number 147 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [oztori] Re: ["Jodie Van Krieken" ] Re: [oztori] Wow [Daniel Hirning ] Re: [oztori] Re: [Daniel Hirning ] [oztori] Intro and the Yaying & Naying ["Nathan Cyran" ] [oztori] Re: ["li" ] Re: [oztori] OT ["li" ] Re: [oztori] Re: oztori-digest V1 #146 [Daniel Hirning ] [oztori] Adam, kiss my eve [Simon John Metcalf ] [none] ["She who is called Michelle" ] [oztori] shtuff ["nina riddel" ] Re: [oztori] shtuff [=?iso-8859-1?q?Daniel?= ] [oztori] This is awful! ["black-winged roses" ] Re: [oztori] shtuff ["Lavenda" ] Re: [oztori] shtuff ["li" ] Re[2]: [oztori] shtuff [Daniel Hirning ] [oztori] Now they claim responsibility [Daniel Hirning ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 00:57:26 +0000 From: "Jodie Van Krieken" Subject: [oztori] Re: Hi all, Andrew said: >My prayers and thoughts go towards those Americans on our list, hope you're >all ok. I'll second that, such a useless horrifying tragedy. I was online when a friend of mine told me to turn on the tv when the second plane had hit....the unravelling from there was just awful. To watch one event happen after another and that building collapsing was distressing to watch live on tv, let alone being there. My thoughts are with those who were there and their loved ones. Love Jodie xxx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:46:21 +1000 From: Daniel Hirning Subject: Re: [oztori] Wow Wednesday, September 12, 2001, 10:17:01 AM, Justa wrote: JB> Can you imagine what it would be like to be in the WTO buildings, JB> knowing everything's falling apart around you? Do you jump (like JB> so many did) or do you sit tight? They both sort of end up the JB> same way, so how do you decide? have been discussing this with my flatmate (this has really brought me and him together... this is a good thing - we hate each other) - but the way we see it... is that burning would have to be SOOOO painful... And, for me, personally, i have always wanted to go skydiving... - your life is about to end... - do you die from fire, or do you have a a second of free fall utopia and finish off doing something 'enjoyable' (if anything COULD be enjoyable in that situation is hard to say...) so i dunno... i think i would jump... But in that situation.. who knows what you would think... JB> You can watch the news (like I did for a few hours of the very JB> early morning), although I found it more interesting to hear from JB> all the people posting messages at www.opendiary.com. is that all... my flatmate and I have been watching the news since around 11.30 last night.. - glued to the TV... - went out, failed a mid semester exam, came back to the tv... - it is SOOO addictive watching the same thing over and over again... I dunno.. maybe its cause i haven't watched tv in MONTHS... - that the whole 'moving picture with sound' concept is almost 'new' to me.. :) I was thinking watching all of it at around midnight, and watching the first building collapse - how fake it looked compared to the movies.. - - and how bad the camera angels where.... Plus the way the white house is handling it all ... you gotta wonder... are the movies copying the whitehouse... or the whitehouse copying the movies... its just SOOO movie like it ain't funny... dan.the.man. dan@danhirning.com www.danhirning.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:51:21 +1000 From: Daniel Hirning Subject: Re: [oztori] Re: Wednesday, September 12, 2001, 8:20:02 AM, Daniel wrote: D> I hope everyone with friends/relatives in NY knows they're okay and D> that they are okay. sort of a 'friend' at uni (exchange student) well his dad (i had met him once... - he was really cool! - for an american... :) he came over for said exchange students 21st...) was on level 10 or something of one of the towers when the first plane got out... - he got out (thankfully) - he is the only person i know of ... needless to say, he got special consideration for the exam today.. - lucky bastard... i so failed that exam.. :( dan.the.man. dan@danhirning.com www.danhirning.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:55:36 +1000 From: "Nathan Cyran" Subject: [oztori] Intro and the Yaying & Naying OK here goes Nickname: Nath, Egg, N-P-C, Katich_Fan (ICQ) Age: 22 Sign: Cancer Location: live about 30kms outside Melbourne. Temping in the city Marital Status: Single Torified: 1st time the Cornflake way. Then a big lull, then I saw UTP: Live from Montreal on Foxtel. Friends converted to Toridom: Big goose egg here. Centre of a donut. Interests: Watching tv, net surfing, following Simon Katich's cricketing progress, watching wrestling. Read Last: Some bunch of Company Law textbooks to finish my degree. Although the last novel I read was Mick Foley's first book "Have a Nice Day" Currently Reading: Don't read books. Have to short attention span. What? I said I have a short attention span. Reading Next: Prolly stuff off the web or the Herald Sun. Favourite Book: Don't have one. Favourite Films: Not sure. Don't watch too many. Prolly Terminator 2 or Braveheart. Wizard of Oz for its retroness. Favourite TV Shows: Buffy, Wrestling, Simpsons, Home & Away, Pizza. Musical tastes: Tori, Fiona Apple, Jebediah, Superjesus, Something For Kate, Klinger, Eskimo Joe. Tori Preferences: YKTR Song: Get back to you when I can find the time to pay someone to bootleg it LE Song: SATY UTP Song: Cornflake Girl, Cloud on my Tongue BFP Song: Talula (tornado) FTCGH Song: Razzie Swirl TVAB Song: Spring Haze SLG: Out of the 3 tracks I've heard, I like SLG BSIDE: Blue Skies, Sugar SO Yay to Buffy, Double YAY to Tara on Buffy, and Double Nay to Stargate. Nath C Visit My Website http://come.to/nathspage ICQ:61587649 "Stand back, there's a hurricane coming through!" _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:06:00 +1000 From: "Becc" Subject: [oztori] Re: oztori-digest V1 #146 AndrewR wrote: > I just can't get how ANYONE could justify the actions of what > has happened. I mean it'd do NO GOOD for the people who did it. They have > basically recieved world-wide condemnation for these barbaric actions. I'm not going to try to justify the action taken by whoever it is who did all of this, but at the same time I'm just shocked that all anyone is interested in doing is catching the perpetrators to make sure "justice is delivered", as though slamming them behind bars or gassing them is going to do anything to change the grief being felt by people who have lost loved ones who were in or around the buildings at the time of the crashes. Punishment isn't going to change anything, it's just more useful for those in power to turn grief into anger, which can be more easily distracted. It's insulting to people. and then... > The stock-market is down - so that's not going to help them economically. > Madness. Stupidity. Gutlessness. Horror. Inhuman. Or hopelessness, and a sense of not being able to get feeling across in any other way. To just condemn this act without looking at *why* it's been performed is completely unproductive. The assumption that they were actually benefiting from the stock-market to begin with is a bit misguided, too. If anything positive is going to be taken from this, it has to be an understanding that you can't go on taking more than your fair share of the world's resources forever, and using these resources to build bigger and better attack and defence systems (against people within and without your own country) and expect that people are just going to sit back and not feel outraged or distressed or threatened. Those people who are sobbing and wailing on the news about how this event has changed their lives are a bit naive, in my opinion. Without lessening the extent to which many people are being directly affected by deaths of friends and family members, or who were there to witness the whole gory mess, there are a lot worse things that have taken place in the world, and are taking place on a daily basis (think about people in war-torn / poverty-sticken countries). The only reason this is getting so much air-time is because it's happening in America - land of the free, blah blah blah. It's taken everyone by surprise, not because America is this Utopia that doesn't deserve to be attacked, but because America has muscled its way into such a position that people are generally scared to argue back at them. When you look at the context of the situation, though, is an attack on the things American society holds dear really such a surprising thing to have occurred? Not really. But, as usual, the US has gone into we-the-almighty-america-must-go-forth-and-punish mode - responding to an attack by retaliating when the mature and productive thing to do would be to break the cycle of attack/retaliation they're stuck in: perhaps start addressing *why* anyone should feel so angry/threatened/whatever and feel that the only way they can make an impact is by the physical destruction of buildings and lives. ~Becc :) witnessed: http://www.barbaric-yawp.com/journal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:33:51 +1000 From: "li" Subject: [oztori] Re: And I. - ---------- > From: Darwin Clan > To: oztori@smoe.org > Subject: > Date: Wednesday, 12 September 2001 2:01 > > Hi all. > > My prayers and thoughts go towards those Americans on our list, hope you're > all ok. > > ~Andrew~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:36:48 +1000 From: "li" Subject: Re: [oztori] OT Nobody deserves it. - ---------- > From: Justa Boi > To: oztori@smoe.org > Subject: [oztori] Wow > Date: Wednesday, 12 September 2001 10:17 > > I guess everyone's seen the footage by now... and for all the American > bagging that sometimes take place on this list (jokingly or > otherwise), I don't think really anyone deserves that. > > Can you imagine what it would be like to be in the WTO buildings, > knowing everything's falling apart around you? Do you jump (like so > many did) or do you sit tight? They both sort of end up the same way, > so how do you decide? > > I was writing an email to a friend in which this event was mentioned > and I searched for a quote that seemed relevant. All I came up with > was: > > "And they said Marianne killed herself > And I said not a chance - not a chance" > > You can watch the news (like I did for a few hours of the very early > morning), although I found it more interesting to hear from all the > people posting messages at www.opendiary.com. > > John > > "And I know we're dying and there's no sign of a parachute" > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:22:03 +1000 From: Daniel Hirning Subject: Re: [oztori] Re: oztori-digest V1 #146 Wednesday, September 12, 2001, 12:06:00 PM, Becc wrote: B> perhaps start addressing *why* anyone should feel so B> angry/threatened/whatever and feel that the only way they can make B> an impact is by the physical destruction of buildings and lives. do you honestly think that would make a rats arse of a difference when we are dealing with the type of people we are dealing with?? i seriously doubt it would... dan.the.man. dan@danhirning.com www.danhirning.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:48:41 +1000 From: Daniel Hirning Subject: Re[2]: [oztori] Re: Wednesday, September 12, 2001, 9:02:23 AM, Dylan wrote: DP> I can only echo Andrew's sentiments...I may not like American culture that DP> much, but you have to have some compassion for the friends and families on DP> the dead and injured...as well as in the Pentagon... i agree - i HATE americans... but there is no way i would want this to happen to anyone... what really "worries" me of australian culture atm ... is the amount of people today at uni that where saying 'screw the americans' (or similar) comments... - i just could NOT believe that.... hate them or not... - 'screwing the americans' is not the approach i would have thought a person should have.......... dan.the.man. dan@danhirning.com www.danhirning.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:28:56 +1000 (EST) From: Simon John Metcalf Subject: [oztori] Adam, kiss my eve Does anyone know where you can still get a picture of Tori wearing the "Adam, kiss my eve" t-shirt? It's almost nowhere to be seen. If so if you could send it to me that'd be great. Also, does anyone have any insights into where this quote came from? I'm interested to know. Simon. "People suck, or not enough, and therein lies the problem." Scott East. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:52:05 +1000 From: "She who is called Michelle" Subject: [none] >what really "worries" me of australian culture atm ... is the amount of people today at uni that where saying 'screw the americans' (or similar) comments... - i just could NOT believe that.... The point is... these people were not just Americans. They were people. Fellow members of the human race. Of all different creeds and nationalities. People like us. And that's the scariest thing. IT COULD HAVE BEEN US. I guess in a way, it is us. Ask not for whom the bell tolls... it tolls for thee. My thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of the people involved in this disaster, and with the human race in general. Right now we need all the thoughts and prayers we can get, I think. Michelle - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:45:29 +1000 From: "nina riddel" Subject: [oztori] shtuff >There is a Bliss single up in the second-hand section in Rocking Horse >Records in Brisbane... yeah - it belonged to my best friend (a part-time toriphile). she bought it a few months ago in that huge sale they had, then when she needed some cash (last week) sold it with a pile of other stuff. it's only got hey jupiter on it, though. and we did listen to it first. > > 2. make them a fave/mood/theme compilation tape i do this! to everyone who'll let me! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 07:18:29 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Daniel?= Subject: Re: [oztori] shtuff > > > 2. make them a fave/mood/theme compilation tape > > i do this! to everyone who'll let me! yes! me too! made one for someone and i think, on the strength of 3 songs, have made her a lisa germano fan. yay me! also just wanted to say a) watching people jump from buildings is not, i repeat NOT entertaining. b) does anyone know what happened with the pennsylvanian plane? anything? nothing???? c) i'm scared that any one person [or, in this case at least any four people] would do such a horrible, horrible thing and then not own up to it. whats the point? if you're making a statement you should announce that you are. but then i wouldn't want all USA's firepower (and therefore probably ours too, for what its worth) pointed at me after i'd done something like this. Dan (still no smiley.) ===== KH: she then knew what she had been born to do. calmly she stepped out of the stream, into her shoes and walked towards [the grassy patch]. she poured some oats right out of the package into the bowl and taped herself to it. she stood in the middle of the field, looked up to the stars and masticated wildly. what blood type do you have? DN: I dunno I've never found out... KH: there are only a few, just say one. DN: O Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 06:49:54 +0000 From: "black-winged roses" Subject: [oztori] This is awful! My condolences and prayers go out to Americans. I really hope everyone on the lists are ok. Me and my family's thoughts are with you all. [IMAGE] *************** "Hi. My name's Jennifer ... and I'm a recovering christian ..." http://www.geocities.com/sarahvox - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:54:08 +1000 From: "Lavenda" Subject: Re: [oztori] shtuff > b) does anyone know what happened with the > pennsylvanian plane? anything? nothing???? There is little information about it, it pales in comparison to a landmark, national monument almost, suddenly disappearing from the landscape, all that I have found on the cnn site is: "Flight 93, flying from Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco, California, crashed near Shanksville, Pennsylvania, about 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The plane, also a Boeing 757, held 38 passengers, five crew members and two pilots. Initial reports indicated no survivors. " Since it didn't hit any thing of significance, they are speculating they were on their way to a military base (Camp something I think), San Fran airport, or something else. At this point I'd also like to say that I'm a Stargate fan, despite McGuyers presance, and have been for a few years now. But I wouldn't say it was better than Voyager (not Voyager at it's best at any rate). Andrew R, how much of a Voy fan are you? I know you don't like spoilers, but I'm not sure whether this means for everything from s6 onwards, or you've got out what vids there are... but did you know there are 2 (yes, TWO) fanfic series continuing the story??? X Lavs ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:17:48 +1000 From: "li" Subject: Re: [oztori] shtuff Camp David... a few palestinian-israeli-US peace talks have been held there. - ---------- > From: Lavenda > To: oztori@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [oztori] shtuff > Date: Wednesday, 12 September 2001 16:54 > > > b) does anyone know what happened with the > > pennsylvanian plane? anything? nothing???? > > There is little information about it, it pales in comparison to a landmark, > national monument almost, suddenly disappearing from the landscape, all that > I have found on the cnn site is: > "Flight 93, flying from Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco, California, > crashed near Shanksville, Pennsylvania, about 80 miles southeast of > Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The plane, also a Boeing 757, held 38 passengers, > five crew members and two pilots. Initial reports indicated no survivors. " > > Since it didn't hit any thing of significance, they are speculating they > were on their way to a military base (Camp something I think), San Fran > airport, or something else. > > At this point I'd also like to say that I'm a Stargate fan, despite McGuyers > presance, and have been for a few years now. But I wouldn't say it was > better than Voyager (not Voyager at it's best at any rate). Andrew R, how > much of a Voy fan are you? I know you don't like spoilers, but I'm not sure > whether this means for everything from s6 onwards, or you've got out what > vids there are... but did you know there are 2 (yes, TWO) fanfic series > continuing the story??? > > X > Lavs ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:03:44 +1000 From: Daniel Hirning Subject: Re[2]: [oztori] shtuff Wednesday, September 12, 2001, 4:54:08 PM, Lavenda wrote: L> "Flight 93, flying from Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco, California, L> crashed near Shanksville, Pennsylvania, about 80 miles southeast of L> Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The plane, also a Boeing 757, held 38 passengers, L> five crew members and two pilots. Initial reports indicated no survivors. " gotta wonder what caused it to just crash... - cause lets face it... that wasn't the plane... also gotta wonder what made the plain that hit the pentagon to change to direction so suddenly in the end (it was initially aimed straight for the whitehouse) They do have at least 5 arabs in custody... - but that is hardly going to do anything - it obviously won't be the guy behind it all - and its becoming perfectly clear they are willing to die for their cause... so its not as if they are going to tell them who is behind it... and finally... - i thought terrorists owned up to these things.. like straight after they happened?? Why has no one done that yet?!??! - i reckon its a country behind it... Iraq? - i dunno.. its the only country i can think of.. :) what is the purpose of terrorism if they don't say what the cause is...??? Its a country.. its the start of a war... - be happy we are all in oz... - and dan... cancel your tori trip... stay in oz... the US is going to be the middle of WWIII very shortly... (hey, since when have i had an optimistic look on ANYTHING... i hardly think now is the time to change my pessimistic style views...) dan.the.man. dan@danhirning.com www.danhirning.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:06:46 +1000 From: Daniel Hirning Subject: [oztori] Now they claim responsibility "Islamic extremists claim responsibility" like 30 seconds after i send that email that no one had yet claimed... though... i dunno.. - i don't think they would have the skills to pull this off.... - and what would doing this to america do for their cause? sweet fuck all.. - it aint' them... they just want the publicity/glory for as long as it lasts... dan.the.man. dan@danhirning.com www.danhirning.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:08:44 +1000 From: Daniel Hirning Subject: [oztori] Re: Wednesday, September 12, 2001, 2:52:05 PM, She wrote: SwicM> The point is... these people were not just Americans. They were people. SwicM> Fellow members of the human race. Of all different creeds and SwicM> nationalities. People like us. "most" people at uni where arguing that, yes they are people - just like all the people in the 3rd world countries that die each day... - no one cares when they die... why should we care about all the ppl in the US dieing.. dan.the.man. dan@danhirning.com www.danhirning.com ------------------------------ End of oztori-digest V1 #147 ****************************