From: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org (oppositeview-digest) To: oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Subject: oppositeview-digest V7 #75 Reply-To: oppositeview@smoe.org Sender: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oppositeview-digest Thursday, July 7 2005 Volume 07 : Number 075 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: OV: Is this thing on? ["Wilson Associates" ] Re: OV: Is this thing on? ["Joe Brady" ] Re: OV: Is this thing on? ["Elizabeth Osborne" ] Re: OV: Is this thing on? [Bokken2@aol.com] Re: OV: Is this thing on? [Helen Pickering ] Re: OV: Is this thing on? [Dave ] Re: OV: Is this thing on? ["Elizabeth Osborne" ] RE: OV: Is this thing on? ["Teresa Couch" ] Re: OV: Is this thing on? [Susan Gardner ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 11:12:39 +0100 From: "Wilson Associates" Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? I see get your point and its a good one, you're right I would hate to see him on stage next to McBeatle et al. What I really meant is that with Justin you wouldn't ever feel that he was posturing - he would tell it like he felt and wouldn't spare anyone's blushes or discomfort. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 12:33 AM Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? >I was thinking the same thing watching the various reunions and such. But > sadly, the light that burns twice as bright often burns half as long. I > don't > think Justin COULD have written the incisive, cutting stuff he did > (does?), > especially those great bridges (as a songwriter, I LOVE his bridges beyond > all > else. Listen to "I've had enough bad news" or "Surface of the Moon" off of > Change Everything for my favorite examples) if he didn't see himself as a > finite, self-destructing entity. Think about it, would you really want him > in > McCartney land; wheeled out every now and again to wail "Hey Jude" at this > or > that benefit, and sending some subpar album of filler our way every few > years? > Surely not. We got what we got, and most never get that. > Joel Underwood ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 09:04:01 -0400 From: MinervAthene@aol.com Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? Reading all this (and it's lovely to see so much of the group still out there and interested!) I do find myself wondering what Justin himself would make of the whole idea. Would he even want to be out there, or would he read this thread and think, "F*** off and let me enjoy not having to work!" Somehow I find myself thinking it would be a sly smile and somewhere between the two :) In an email dated 6/7/2005 11:12:39 am GMT Daylight time, "Wilson Associates" writes: >I see get your point and its a good one, you're right I would hate to see >him on stage next to McBeatle et al. What I really meant is that with Justin >you wouldn't ever feel that he was posturing - he would tell it like he felt >and wouldn't spare anyone's blushes or discomfort. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 12:33 AM >Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? > > >>I was thinking the same thing watching the various reunions and such. But >> sadly, the light that burns twice as bright often burns half as long. I >> don't >> think Justin COULD have written the incisive, cutting stuff he did >> (does?), >> especially those great bridges (as a songwriter, I LOVE his bridges beyond >> all >> else. Listen to "I've had enough bad news" or "Surface of the Moon" off of >> Change Everything for my favorite examples) if he didn't see himself as a >> finite, self-destructing entity. Think about it, would you really want him >> in >> McCartney land; wheeled out every now and again to wail "Hey Jude" at this >> or >> that benefit, and sending some subpar album of filler our way every few >> years? >> Surely not. We got what we got, and most never get that. >> Joel Underwood ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 06:51:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? I sometimes get the impression that Justin is completely oblivious to the fact that he has a fan base at all. In the little dribble of news that we got recently, he said he was almost done with a solo album and also an album with Iain - both of which he doubts anyone will like and doesn't know if he'll find anyone to put them out. Del Amitri has basically ceased to exist because they don't have a record deal and it seems like they took it as the end of the world. They should have looked at being dropped from A&M/Polygram/Universal as a blessing. What's the point of being on a big label when they don't want to promote your record? Plenty of bands have gone indie or DIY and been more successful than they were on a major label. I think some of their problems were self-inflicted - like leaving some of their best songs to be b-sides or worse, never releasing them (Drowned On Dry Land, Everyone Knows It's You, Waking Up, etc.). I don't think that Justin would ever be a part of something like Live 8 - he's far too cynical about such things (Food For Songs). I really miss writing of his caliber. I'm sure he's still writing great stuff - but if he never lets us hear it (just because he can't find a record company) how would we ever know? Oh, and in answer to someone's question, CYDMG? was never released in the US. It's only available as an import. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 14:56:09 +0100 From: "Joe Brady" Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? Spot on Post Dave. JC was spotted on some channel 4 TV show this weekend though. JJB R.T.I.D"Dont be fooled by imitations We are the hoops that rock the nation..." >From: Dave >To: oppositeview@smoe.org >Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? >Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 06:51:13 -0700 (PDT) > >I sometimes get the impression that Justin is completely oblivious to the fact that he has a fan base at all. In the little dribble of news that we got recently, he said he was almost done with a solo album and also an album with Iain - both of which he doubts anyone will like and doesn't know if he'll find anyone to put them out. Del Amitri has basically ceased to exist because they don't have a record deal and it seems like they took it as the end of the world. > >They should have looked at being dropped from A&M/Polygram/Universal as a blessing. What's the point of being on a big label when they don't want to promote your record? Plenty of bands have gone indie or DIY and been more successful than they were on a major label. > >I think some of their problems were self-inflicted - like leaving some of their best songs to be b-sides or worse, never releasing them (Drowned On Dry Land, Everyone Knows It's You, Waking Up, etc.). > >I don't think that Justin would ever be a part of something like Live 8 - - he's far too cynical about such things (Food For Songs). I really miss writing of his caliber. I'm sure he's still writing great stuff - but if he never lets us hear it (just because he can't find a record company) how would we ever know? > >Oh, and in answer to someone's question, CYDMG? was never released in the US. It's only available as an import. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 09:28:21 -0500 From: "Elizabeth Osborne" Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? Is that channel available in the US?? I haven't watched much of Live 8 because the portions that I HAVE caught just seem so uninspired. Of course, one of the few I saw was Bon Jovi's Living on a Prayer so.......... ;) Yesterday, after the question of CYDMG's availability as a US release, I got on Amazon.com and was just perusing through the many reviews that many many fans have given some of the Del's releases and it is truly amazing just how many true (overuse of the word "true" I know!) Dels fans are out there (and NOT on this list, damn them!). For some good readin' - - check out the reviews on Amazon....it has even prompted me to purchase the albums that I do not (embarrassed) already have. Elizabeth - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Joe Brady" To: davesills@sbcglobal.net, oppositeview@smoe.org Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 14:56:09 +0100 Spot on Post Dave. JC was spotted on some channel 4 TV show this weekend though. JJB R.T.I.D"Dont be fooled by imitations We are the hoops that rock the nation..." >From: Dave >To: oppositeview@smoe.org >Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? >Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 06:51:13 -0700 (PDT) > >I sometimes get the impression that Justin is completely oblivious to the fact that he has a fan base at all. In the little dribble of news that we got recently, he said he was almost done with a solo album and also an album with Iain - both of which he doubts anyone will like and doesn't know if he'll find anyone to put them out. Del Amitri has basically ceased to exist because they don't have a record deal and it seems like they took it as the end of the world. > >They should have looked at being dropped from A&M/Polygram/Universal as a blessing. What's the point of being on a big label when they don't want to promote your record? Plenty of bands have gone indie or DIY and been more successful than they were on a major label. > >I think some of their problems were self-inflicted - like leaving some of their best songs to be b-sides or worse, never releasing them (Drowned On Dry Land, Everyone Knows It's You, Waking Up, etc.). > >I don't think that Justin would ever be a part of something like Live 8 - - he's far too cynical about such things (Food For Songs). I really miss writing of his caliber. I'm sure he's still writing great stuff - but if he never lets us hear it (just because he can't find a record company) how would we ever know? > >Oh, and in answer to someone's question, CYDMG? was never released in the US. It's only available as an import. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 11:04:32 EDT From: Bokken2@aol.com Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? Dave, Absolutely on the money. The bottom line is that if the tunes are in you, you won't be denied. You'll smash down walls, stop traffic, and do whatever to get them out. By the end, I just don't think JC had that will. Example: one of my favorite Irish artists, Luka Bloom, lost his deal with Warner after two discs, but would not lay down. Instead, he created a vibrant web community, made his own discs himself, just the way he wanted them (no sitting in some nerk's office with him telling you he "doesn't hear the single"), and books his own tours. This is what I do myself now, as it allows for the real artistic freedom you're NEVER going to get from a label. The last thing you want to be is a secondary artist (Dels) on a major label (Merc). You're never going to get the push, attention, AR management, or tour support you need because they've got to worry about the new disc coming out this month by EMF or whomever. Speaking of tours; not touring the US consistently (or at all at the end) was definitely a factor in the downfall. Many Americans don't realize how difficult it got for foreign artists (even Canadians!) to play in the US post 9/11. I was playing on the same bill with a wonderful Canadian singer-songwriter last week, and she told me that to come and play even one gig in the US you have to apply for what's called a P-2 Visa (5 months, several hundred dollars in fees). In the event something changes in your tour scheduling (it always does) and you need to apply to have your visa "extradited" it can be done in around 15 days, but it's incredibly pricey. Bottom line: before she had even booked a plane ticket or hotel room, she had already paid $1100 just to cross the border. Elton John can afford this. Small guys with little to no label support can't take these hits on their profit margin. If you're an American and have noticed that your favorite foreign artists; the Richard Thompsons, Luka Blooms, Del Amitris, Crowded Houses, and so forth, simply don't seem to come around as much, you're right, they don't. Our government is making it very hard for foreign artists to ply their crafts stateside. Are we keeping out the bad people? Are we keeping out the good people along with them? Are we even effectively keeping out the bad people anyway? Are good Canadian, British, Scottish, Irish, Australian etc, artists paying for our inefficiency with their careers? Just thoughts, Joel Underwood Asheville, USA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 17:43:24 +0100 (BST) From: Helen Pickering Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? I think, breaking out of lurk mode for a moment, that Justin is quite happy with his career on his own terms. He doesn't seem to feel that an large audience is necessary to validate his music and he's just quietly getting on with what he wants to do - be it Uncle Devil Show, the 'With Strings' series of concerts, unreleased solo stuff and collaborations with Iain, or whatever else he's up to which we don't know about. He has all the artistic freedom he wants from what I can tell, but not everyone feels the need (or can be bothered) to do what Luka Bloom, Aimee Mann, etc etc have done in terms of self-promotion. And all power to him - if that's what he wants then fine. I'd still like to hear what he's up to, but I don't have any automatic right to :-) Cheers, Helen - --- Bokken2@aol.com wrote: > Dave, > Absolutely on the money. The bottom line is that if > the tunes are in you, > you won't be denied. You'll smash down walls, stop > traffic, and do whatever to > get them out. By the end, I just don't think JC had > that will. Example: one of > my favorite Irish artists, Luka Bloom, lost his > deal with Warner after two > discs, but would not lay down. Instead, he created a > vibrant web community, > made his own discs himself, just the way he wanted > them (no sitting in some > nerk's office with him telling you he "doesn't hear > the single"), and books his > own tours. This is what I do myself now, as it > allows for the real artistic > freedom you're NEVER going to get from a label. The > last thing you want to be > is a secondary artist (Dels) on a major label > (Merc). You're never going to > get the push, attention, AR management, or tour > support you need because > they've got to worry about the new disc coming out > this month by EMF or whomever. > > Speaking of tours; not touring the US consistently > (or at all at the end) > was definitely a factor in the downfall. Many > Americans don't realize how > difficult it got for foreign artists (even > Canadians!) to play in the US post > 9/11. I was playing on the same bill with a > wonderful Canadian singer-songwriter > last week, and she told me that to come and play > even one gig in the US you > have to apply for what's called a P-2 Visa (5 > months, several hundred dollars > in fees). In the event something changes in your > tour scheduling (it always > does) and you need to apply to have your visa > "extradited" it can be done in > around 15 days, but it's incredibly pricey. Bottom > line: before she had even > booked a plane ticket or hotel room, she had already > paid $1100 just to cross > the border. Elton John can afford this. Small guys > with little to no label > support can't take these hits on their profit > margin. If you're an American and > have noticed that your favorite foreign artists; the > Richard Thompsons, Luka > Blooms, Del Amitris, Crowded Houses, and so forth, > simply don't seem to come > around as much, you're right, they don't. Our > government is making it very > hard for foreign artists to ply their crafts > stateside. > > Are we keeping out the bad people? Are we keeping > out the good people along > with them? Are we even effectively keeping out the > bad people anyway? Are good > Canadian, British, Scottish, Irish, Australian etc, > artists paying for our > inefficiency with their careers? > > Just thoughts, > Joel Underwood > Asheville, USA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 10:34:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? I don't feel entitled to hear what he's doing - but I do WANT to hear it. Sadly, I think Helen is close to the mark with the notion that he "can't be bothered" to make an effort to go it alone. I don't think he's looking for validation from his audience - large OR small. His comments about his career since the latter days of the Dels have given me the impression that he wants validation from a huge multi-national media conglomerate, like he's saying "If no big record company wants to put out my music, then sod it all, I'm off to the pub!" As for post 9/11 travel being the culprit - it's not like he's doing a lot of things in the UK. A handful of Strings Attached shows - where he only sings a handful of songs. At least those shows gave evidence to us that he IS still writing. If he was releasing records in the UK, I'd be buying imports. (As a side note: the Finn Brothers did two swings through the US for their recent album, Richard Thompson is in the middle of a US tour - both are on indie labels, so it's not impossible). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 13:22:55 -0500 From: "Elizabeth Osborne" Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? I thought of the Finns tour, too, since I saw them in St. Louis in February (awesome show, by the way!). The tickets were very reasonable and so I have a difficult time thinking that post-9/11 has a whole lot to do with it. Of course, The Finn Bros. and other acts have/had not been dropped from their label and have had much success both in their respective solo careers (I saw Neil in DC for One All (One Nil) in 2002) as well as their partnership with one another, unlike what Justin has seen or probably more accurately what Justin actually wanted to see. Nothing wrong with retiring early to the pub - or obscure side projects! Like someone posted earlier, we got more than some people ever get from their favorite band/bands. I would rather listen to all of my DA collection and love it than hear Justin half-heartedly make an effort just because a label or even fans think he "should." I'm dying to go home and get out my copies of Twisted and of Change Everything!!! Elizabeth - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Dave To: oppositeview@smoe.org Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 10:34:04 -0700 (PDT) I don't feel entitled to hear what he's doing - but I do WANT to hear it. Sadly, I think Helen is close to the mark with the notion that he "can't be bothered" to make an effort to go it alone. I don't think he's looking for validation from his audience - large OR small. His comments about his career since the latter days of the Dels have given me the impression that he wants validation from a huge multi-national media conglomerate, like he's saying "If no big record company wants to put out my music, then sod it all, I'm off to the pub!" As for post 9/11 travel being the culprit - it's not like he's doing a lot of things in the UK. A handful of Strings Attached shows - where he only sings a handful of songs. At least those shows gave evidence to us that he IS still writing. If he was releasing records in the UK, I'd be buying imports. (As a side note: the Finn Brothers did two swings through the US for their recent album, Richard Thompson is in the middle of a US tour - both are on indie labels, so it's not impossible). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 12:12:34 -0400 From: "Teresa Couch" Subject: RE: OV: Is this thing on? Its amazing how here in the Atlanta area one can hear a Dels song in almost any grocery store or upscale fast food joint (Ruby Tuesday, O'Charlies, Longhorn, etc.) Some are on "background music" cd's for stores, others from Sirius radio. Its nice...always gives me a chill Stay well and as Del as ya can! Love & Peace, Teresa "Ladywiz" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 17:23:48 -0700 From: Susan Gardner Subject: Re: OV: Is this thing on? Teresa Couch wrote: >Its amazing how here in the Atlanta area one can hear a Dels song in >almost any grocery store or upscale fast food joint (Ruby Tuesday, >O'Charlies, Longhorn, etc.) Some are on "background music" cd's for >stores, others from Sirius radio. Its nice...always gives me a chill > >Stay well and as Del as ya can! >Love & Peace, > >Teresa >"Ladywiz" > > > Just two weeks ago, my daughter and I were in Publix grocery store and laughed out loud when 'Roll to Me' came on! Bless her pea-pickin' heart, she knows the words too & we sang happily along, to the amusement of the guy stocking the yogurt. TTFN Susan ------------------------------ End of oppositeview-digest V7 #75 *********************************