From: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org (oppositeview-digest) To: oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Subject: oppositeview-digest V5 #144 Reply-To: oppositeview@smoe.org Sender: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oppositeview-digest Thursday, October 30 2003 Volume 05 : Number 144 Today's Subjects: ----------------- OV: Re: oppositeview-digest V5 #143 [Kyle McLuckie <30055781@student.murd] OV: Re: Uncle Devil Show [David Gilliver ] OV: Re: MP3 down ["Kirsten Mayor" ] Re: OV: Re: MP3 down [Alison Bellach ] Re: OV: Re: MP3 down ["Kirsten Mayor" ] RE: OV: Re: MP3 down ["Jason Fiber" ] Re: OV: Re: MP3 down [darren@bendcable.com] Re: OV: It's the Devil, you know [debbsc67 ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:21:09 +0800 From: Kyle McLuckie <30055781@student.murdoch.edu.au> Subject: OV: Re: oppositeview-digest V5 #143 You're a tops bloke Dirk! Kyle > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:05:22 +0100 > From: Dirk.Wonhoefer@eberle-augsburg.de > Subject: OV: UDS, copyright and contacting JC > > Re-hi list, > > what I forgot in my last email: If someone's kind enough to contact Justin > and ask for his permission, could I be informed please? > > Another thing is, I do not say thanks for all the "support" emails I got > from various members of the list. Well, it's nice to get heaps of mails > saying "we're standing behind you", but all this is about copyright. And > copyright is not about people who are saying something's OK, but about the > one person who takes harm from all this. And I know lots about copyright > (even if it may not seem so ;-)), and the last thing I want to do is harm > JC or any other artist. > > In fact, until now I understood all of my efforts of putting up > concert-mp3's and so on my website as a way of promoting the Dels. I know > that the real decision about promoting the band is not up to me, but up to > the record label. Honestly I have to say, the Dels former record labels > didn't seem to be fans of Del Amitri. I am. And so I'll keep posting > concert mp3's and rare b-sides on my website. > > I'd like to put an end to this whole discussion with this post, if that's > ok. Even if some of you are sad that they didn't get the chance to > download the UDS-tracks as they were still up. It's better to have them > down for now. Maybe Justin will allow to put them up again. > > yours, Dirk > > ------------------------------ > > End of oppositeview-digest V5 #143 > ********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:41:15 +1100 (EST) From: David Gilliver Subject: OV: Re: Uncle Devil Show I downloaded the mp3s and have had a good listen to them today. I'm not going to debate the rights and wrongs of whether they should have been made available. What I did want to say was: wow. I absolutely adore some of these songs. "Bimbo in the Limo" is catchy and hilarious. "I Had A Drink About You Last Night" is great, all 7 mins of it. I downloaded "Gilbert O'Sullivan" and "She Cuts Her Own Fringe" months ago when someone made them available and I thought they were both brilliant. This collection of songs is one of the most fun pop albums of the year. It sounds effortless and fun and the last Del Amitri album couldn't be described like that. If Justin recorded this with a bunch of buddies just for a bit of fun, he should do it more often. All albums should "feel" like this. Where do I buy it? I've bought some ordinary albums this year (eg. the new Annie Lennox album) and I would be so much happier if I could buy this one. Hell, I'd even buy a couple of extra copies to give to friends. This album's probably going on my "best of '03" list and at this rate, it will be the first one I've raved about without being able to buy the actual album. Others on my list so far: Jewel "0304" (fun but not as much fun as UDS), Proclaimers "Born Innocent" (a rollicking bunch of songs) and Fleetwood Mac "Say You Will" (overblown and way too long but strangely seductive). later! David ===================================================== DAVID GILLIVER david@lovetown.net http://gilliver.net gstring (for the discerning music nut), official Stephen Cummings site & the Hothouse Flowers fan site ===================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:32:29 -0000 From: "Kirsten Mayor" Subject: OV: Re: MP3 down I don't belive it, I just read the summary of OVs latest offerings and was really excited to find I'd be able to dowload UDS. Then I got to the end and found it was gone. Yes, I understand why, and yes, I'm still gutted it's gone. I don't do downloads. I'm one of these people that doesn't look at the lists handed round at work of the latest cds to have copied (though I've never grassed anyone up either). I don't believe in piracy. The ONE time I was going to go for it and I find out too late. Typical. Anyway, I'd like to know what Alison means by the term "casual fans". Does it imply that lots of people are willing to get shitloads of e-mails about something they couldn't care less about? Or is there a more sinister reason for it? I'm not a diehard fan in that I didn't make it to any gigs this year (although I did buy a ticket) and although I've been listening and loving DA since ATLTK was released I've only been to 2 gigs prior to this year. I've bought all the released cds, some singles, posters and t-shirts and of course replaced old tapes with cds. I only consider myself a casual fan because I don't live and die for DA like some people seem to on the list. But does this mean that I am immoral? No. Therefore, had I had the chance to download the tracks I would have bought the album at the first opportunity along with the "diehards". Can't remember exactly my point after all this typing so I hope at least somebody understands what I was trying to get at... Thanks for listening... Kirsten ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:41:25 -0600 From: Alison Bellach Subject: Re: OV: Re: MP3 down Um, my posts did not address anything associated with the morality of posting the UDS tracks. So, I don't really know what you're getting at. All I was saying is that OV is a very diverse list. It was implied that the people on this list were "specially dedicated" and I was just defending the more casual fans. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Alison Bellach: alibee@delamitri.com http://alibee.delamitri.com http://www.delamitri.com "If you want peace, work for justice." Quoting Kirsten Mayor : > I don't belive it, I just read the summary of OVs latest offerings and was > really excited to find I'd be able to dowload UDS. Then I got to the end > and found it was gone. Yes, I understand why, and yes, I'm still gutted > it's gone. I don't do downloads. I'm one of these people that doesn't look > at the lists handed round at work of the latest cds to have copied (though > I've never grassed anyone up either). I don't believe in piracy. The ONE > time I was going to go for it and I find out too late. Typical. > > Anyway, I'd like to know what Alison means by the term "casual fans". Does > it imply that lots of people are willing to get shitloads of e-mails about > something they couldn't care less about? Or is there a more sinister reason > for it? > > I'm not a diehard fan in that I didn't make it to any gigs this year > (although I did buy a ticket) and although I've been listening and loving DA > since ATLTK was released I've only been to 2 gigs prior to this year. I've > bought all the released cds, some singles, posters and t-shirts and of > course replaced old tapes with cds. I only consider myself a casual fan > because I don't live and die for DA like some people seem to on the list. > But does this mean that I am immoral? No. Therefore, had I had the chance > to download the tracks I would have bought the album at the first > opportunity along with the "diehards". > > Can't remember exactly my point after all this typing so I hope at least > somebody understands what I was trying to get at... > > Thanks for listening... > > Kirsten ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:26:02 -0000 From: "Kirsten Mayor" Subject: Re: OV: Re: MP3 down You see, that's one of the things I meant about not being understood... I wasn't only referring to your message, but other messages about the morality of it all. I didn't read it as a defence of casual fans at all, so sorry for the misunderstanding(s)! Kirsten ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:27:20 -0800 From: "Jason Fiber" Subject: RE: OV: Re: MP3 down Okay, first off, I thought that the email between Dirk and I was private and it was only sent at the request of Alison. Also, it was only my opinion I was voicing, not any sort of an official stance. Just to set the record straight - as much as Superfecta Recordings would love to be considered one of Del Amitri's labels - for better or worse - we're just a licensee of their first album from EMI who deleted the title in the US. I worked closely with Justin to insure our release of the title was not only a package that Del's fans would appreciate but also one that Justin felt respected that era of the band's existence - and to that end I know we accomplished that goal. I don't speak for the band and I don't speak for "their record labels" - I'm just a fan who has an opinion. I have worked extensively in the digital music and online retail field prior to forming Superfecta. I have spoken publicly about the benefits of "free" digital downloading and how it only HELPS album sales. Superfecta uses the internet EXTENSIVELY to market and promote the titles it releases. I not only believe in the marketing power of digital downloading but embrace it whenever possible. I don't, however, condone the posting of mp3 files from an album THAT HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED! I've never chimed in when people have offered b-sides or rare tracks (even ones that are on the CD that Superfecta released) because I feel that, as this is a fan list, there's only benefit to come from fans sharing hard-to-find (but previously released) material with other fans. BUT THERE IS AN OCEAN OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN POSTING RARE AND HARD TO FIND TRACKS AND THE WHOLESALE POSTING OF A COMPLETE ALBUM THAT HAS NOT YET BEEN RELEASED! I realize that Del's fans are starving for new material and it's beyond me why the band keeps silent about things - but they have the right to do as they please. Regardless, the decision to release material from an album that has not been released is NOT anyone's on this list. That decision rests with the band, their publisher and whatever record label eventually releases the title. Respectfully, Jason Fiber ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:02:37 -0800 From: darren@bendcable.com Subject: Re: OV: Re: MP3 down Kirsten, and all, I've been reading all the posts, and have yet to see anyone actually getting upset. Whether it's about music downloading, or what is and isn't a casual fan. So, don't let the emotionless words get you excited, or hurt, or mad. 19 times out of 20, the meaning of an email was not meant in a derogatory way. Music downloading is a sore spot with some people. The fact that the music isn't commercially available, makes some people think that it's fair game. While we know that Justin and Kevin are professional musicians and songwriters, and have been their entire adult lives. So, they would not record anything without it being copyright protected. So where does that leave us? It leaves us EACH with a decision to make. To copy or not to copy. To download or not to download. Right or wrong, it's everyone's own decision. The artists may not LIKE it, and in this case Justin and Kevin know EXACTLY how to make a buck off of this disc. (that's to offer it through delamitri.com or their own website.) But, they're not doing that. At least not yet. So, until they do, the ball's up in the air. To cop a phrase, "Copy Responsibly." dh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:39:13 -0800 (PST) From: debbsc67 Subject: Re: OV: It's the Devil, you know How'd you get it in your hot little hands? I certainly do agree with what you said. I don't think casual listeners would really go to so much trouble to get these tunes. I also believe that those of us who are seeking for these gems will most definately buy it when/if it becomes available. If it had been released when we were lead to believe, we wouldn't even need a discussion about downloads because we'd already have the disc spinning in our CD players now. This would be a moot point. debbie - --- SngWrite1@aol.com wrote: > Well, I got it (not download) and rest assured I'll > definitely be buying it, > if it ever comes out. I want to know who played on > it. I want to see the > lyrics in print. I want to know if they use > pseudonyms or their real names. I > want the whole package. (I had CYDMG before it came > out, and I still bought > that - and had to buy it as an import too!) > > Posting it for download without the consent (and/or > compensation) of the > copyright holders IS most certainly illegal though. > So whoever does have it up, I > would recommend taking it down. > > I do think the people who are so adamant about > getting their mitts on this > material will find a way to get ahold of it > eventually. I also think they are, > like me, most likely to buy it when it does come > out. I think true fans will > support the guys by buying the album when it is > commercially available. The > casual fans probably aren't interested enough to > seek it out. > > Those of us who still frequent this board have been > hungering for new > material for a long time. And for a long time > there has been nothing but silence. > Now people have a reason to get excited again. And > that's not a bad thing. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ------------------------------ End of oppositeview-digest V5 #144 **********************************