From: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org (oppositeview-digest) To: oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Subject: oppositeview-digest V5 #143 Reply-To: oppositeview@smoe.org Sender: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oppositeview-digest Wednesday, October 29 2003 Volume 05 : Number 143 Today's Subjects: ----------------- OV: Re: oppositeview-digest V5 #142 ["David Wartik" ] Re: OV: the mp3's on my webspace ["Jeffrey D. Schultz" ] OV: UDS [angela hughes ] OV: RE: Uncle Devil Show ["Demidh, Alex (MAN-ME)" ] Re: OV: Uncle Devil Show - download from my webspace [debbsc67 ] OV: It's the Devil, you know [SngWrite1@aol.com] OV: UDS mp3's down since yesterday [Dirk.Wonhoefer@eberle-augsburg.de] OV: UDS, copyright and contacting JC [Dirk.Wonhoefer@eberle-augsburg.de] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:35:57 -0600 From: "David Wartik" Subject: OV: Re: oppositeview-digest V5 #142 Dirk- Thank you SO MUCH for posting the UDS songs and thanks, as well, to whomever made the tracks available for Dirk!! David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:44:23 -0000 From: "Mojo T Monkey" Subject: OV: Re: Re: oppositeview-digest V5 #142 Yep... just so long as we all BUY a copy too if it ever gets released... I don't mind taking MP3s from the web, but Del Amitri have been the soundtrack to the last 15 years of my life so they are the exception to the rule as far as I'm concerned... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Wartik" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: OV: Re: oppositeview-digest V5 #142 Dirk- Thank you SO MUCH for posting the UDS songs and thanks, as well, to whomever made the tracks available for Dirk!! David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:47:02 +0000 From: "Joe Brady" Subject: Re: OV: Re: Re: oppositeview-digest V5 #142 I thinks it's out of order personally.. These blokes need the money and as fans what do we do? Its stealing, It's as simple as that. R.T.I.D"Dont be fooled by imitations We are the hoops that rock the nation..." >From: "Mojo T Monkey" >To: >Subject: OV: Re: Re: oppositeview-digest V5 #142 >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:44:23 -0000 > >Yep... just so long as we all BUY a copy too if it ever gets released... > >I don't mind taking MP3s from the web, but Del Amitri have been the >soundtrack to the last 15 years of my life so they are the exception to the >rule as far as I'm concerned... > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Wartik" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 12:35 PM >Subject: OV: Re: oppositeview-digest V5 #142 > > >Dirk- > >Thank you SO MUCH for posting the UDS songs and thanks, as well, to whomever >made the tracks available for Dirk!! > >David - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Keep in touch whilst on the go - get selected Hotmail sent to your mobile phone. Click here for details. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:42:43 +0100 From: Dirk.Wonhoefer@eberle-augsburg.de Subject: OV: the mp3's on my webspace Hi list, from one user, I got a message already that I should take the mp3's down. First of all: These MP3's are NOT on my website. They're not available for everyone, just for the ones on the OV list. And I think (or at least I hope so) that everyone who downloads these tracks and likes them, will buy the album, too, if it ever gets released. I sure as hell WILL do. My personal opinion is this: - - If a person would like to have the album and does NOT want to pay for it, this person will eventually get it somewhere (out of the net) for free. - - If a person is willing to buy the album, this person will buy it, even if he / she got a complete copy of the album for free out of the net. just my 2 cents If someone really thinks I shouldn't make it available for the OV list, mail me. I'm willing to discuss, and I'm willing to take them from the net as well. At least, I just want to bring something nice to some other people, and I don't wanna harm anyone. For now, they're online. :-) Dirk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:26:29 -0500 From: "Jeffrey D. Schultz" Subject: Re: OV: the mp3's on my webspace Dirk, I wanted to show my support and thanks for making the mp3's available to us. The OV list is a select list of dedicated Dels fans, 90% of whom would buy this album (and some of us even more than one copy). It is people like you who keep the music of JC/DA alive -- how else to keep the fan base excited than by helping the most dedicated to find these rare songs!?? Thanks, and keep it up, Jeff in NYC >Hi list, > >from one user, I got a message already that I should take the mp3's down. > >First of all: These MP3's are NOT on my website. They're not available for >everyone, just for the ones on the OV list. And I think (or at least I >hope so) that everyone who downloads these tracks and likes them, will buy >the album, too, if it ever gets released. I sure as hell WILL do. > >My personal opinion is this: > >- If a person would like to have the album and does NOT want to pay for >it, this person will eventually get it somewhere (out of the net) for >free. >- If a person is willing to buy the album, this person will buy it, even >if he / she got a complete copy of the album for free out of the net. > >just my 2 cents > >If someone really thinks I shouldn't make it available for the OV list, >mail me. I'm willing to discuss, and I'm willing to take them from the net >as well. At least, I just want to bring something nice to some other >people, and I don't wanna harm anyone. For now, they're online. :-) > >Dirk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:30:13 -0600 From: Alison Bellach Subject: Re: OV: the mp3's on my webspace Wow. First off, this is not a "select group", unless by that you mean "Del fans with computers who have signed up". None of the people here were hand-picked by ANYONE. Secondly, these songs are not rare if Justin is planning on releasing the album in the upcoming future. What this is really about is people who are impatient to hear UDS. Nothing more, nothing less. Quoting "Jeffrey D. Schultz" : > Dirk, I wanted to show my support and thanks for making the mp3's > available to us. The OV list is a select list of dedicated Dels fans, > 90% of whom would buy this album (and some of us even more than one > copy). It is people like you who keep the music of JC/DA alive -- how > else to keep the fan base excited than by helping the most dedicated > to find these rare songs!?? > > Thanks, and keep it up, > > Jeff in NYC - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Alison Bellach: alibee@delamitri.com http://alibee.delamitri.com http://www.delamitri.com "If you want peace, work for justice." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:55:01 -0500 From: "Jeffrey D. Schultz" Subject: Re: OV: the mp3's on my webspace For the definition of "select", I'll stick with meaning 2a from Merriam-Webster: "of special value or excellence: superior, choice". OV'ers have a dedication for JC/DA that set them apart from the rest of internet surfers, whose only DA song on their computer is "Roll to Me" from some 90's Hits compilation. Come on, give us some credit Allison. Jeff in NYC At 8:30 AM -0600 10/28/03, Alison Bellach wrote: >Wow. > >First off, this is not a "select group", unless by that you mean >"Del fans with >computers who have signed up". None of the people here were hand-picked by >ANYONE. > >Secondly, these songs are not rare if Justin is planning on >releasing the album >in the upcoming future. What this is really about is people who are impatient >to hear UDS. Nothing more, nothing less. > >Quoting "Jeffrey D. Schultz" : > >> Dirk, I wanted to show my support and thanks for making the mp3's >> available to us. The OV list is a select list of dedicated Dels fans, >> 90% of whom would buy this album (and some of us even more than one >> copy). It is people like you who keep the music of JC/DA alive -- how >> else to keep the fan base excited than by helping the most dedicated >> to find these rare songs!?? >> >> Thanks, and keep it up, >> > > Jeff in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:35:45 -0600 From: Alison Bellach Subject: Re: OV: the mp3's on my webspace Heh. First off, I *know* there are a lot of those casual Del fans on this list. And hey, I don't slight them for getting into the band via "Roll To Me". The thing that's important to me is that they had that exposure, which is all I can really ask for: more Del Amitri fans! Yay! I want them to get into the Dels any way possible. I don't think that old fans who liked the Dels in 85 are "superior" to new fans who heard them first via the Flipper trailer. I don't think that I'm denying anyone credit. In fact, I'd say you are, by slighting those whose introduction was through the "one big hit". The problem with sharing MP3s, as I am sure anyone knows, has to do with copyright, etc., etc. I am sure we could get into a long, drawn-out argument about whether Dirk's sharing the music is questionable. The point I was trying to make is that you're wrong when you assume that just because we're all on this mailing list, we're special and somehow deserve access to the songs that others don't. Crap. If you put this on Kaaza and a ton of people became UDS fans, I'd be all for that. > For the definition of "select", I'll stick with meaning 2a from > Merriam-Webster: "of special value or excellence: superior, choice". > OV'ers have a dedication for JC/DA that set them apart from the rest > of internet surfers, whose only DA song on their computer is "Roll to > Me" from some 90's Hits compilation. Come on, give us some credit > Allison. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Alison Bellach: alibee@delamitri.com http://alibee.delamitri.com http://www.delamitri.com "If you want peace, work for justice." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:40:14 +0000 From: angela hughes Subject: OV: UDS This will definately effect sales...people like freebies it's human nature. A ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:06:19 -0000 From: "Demidh, Alex (MAN-ME)" Subject: OV: RE: Uncle Devil Show I'd just like to say a public THANK YOU to dirk, for sharing the UDS album with us, it's people like Dirk who make all this worthwhile. Take Care, and fingers crossed for all you Southern Californian's out there also... Alex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:58:25 -0400 From: "randamedia" Subject: OV: RE: oppositeview-digest V5 #139 What's the web address of your site? randy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:33:46 -0500 From: "Jeffrey D. Schultz" Subject: Re: OV: the mp3's on my webspace Alison, I hear what you are saying. The music was created by people who deserve to be paid for their work and effort. Let's hope UDS gets a contract, or better yet, sells it independently on Apple iTunes. Our "special" status does not imply we deserve free DA stuff, but rather, of all the DA fans out there, we are the ones who will get excited enough to continue spreading the word. Back in the summer when someone posted Gilbert O'Sullivan and She Cuts Her Own Fringe, I listened to them over and over, and began telling my guitar buddies about this cool upcoming JC project. I think artists get more positive buzz from leaking out their songs ahead of time than they lose in terms of money from the downloads. True, we don't know if UDS & company wanted this, or if some studio engineer smuggled out a rough copy, but in the end I'd wager that sharing among core fans will only help the project, not hurt it. ---Then again, the last we heard from our illustrious leader, he told us to F**k off, so maybe he'd rather not have us promote his work anymore...? Regarding the Roll To Me "slight" -- do bear in mind that I originally wrote of people whose only DA song was off a 90's Hits compilation, and not that it was their first DA song that led to them become real fans (ie, those that actually buy DA albums). So, come one, come all: buy DA albums and spread the word. Jeff in NYC Heh. First off, I *know* there are a lot of those casual Del fans on this list. And hey, I don't slight them for getting into the band via "Roll To Me". The thing that's important to me is that they had that exposure, which is all I can really ask for: more Del Amitri fans! Yay! I want them to get into the Dels any way possible. I don't think that old fans who liked the Dels in 85 are "superior" to new fans who heard them first via the Flipper trailer. I don't think that I'm denying anyone credit. In fact, I'd say you are, by slighting those whose introduction was through the "one big hit". The problem with sharing MP3s, as I am sure anyone knows, has to do with copyright, etc., etc. I am sure we could get into a long, drawn-out argument about whether Dirk's sharing the music is questionable. The point I was trying to make is that you're wrong when you assume that just because we're all on this mailing list, we're special and somehow deserve access to the songs that others don't. Crap. If you put this on Kaaza and a ton of people became UDS fans, I'd be all for that. > For the definition of "select", I'll stick with meaning 2a from > Merriam-Webster: "of special value or excellence: superior, choice". > OV'ers have a dedication for JC/DA that set them apart from the rest > of internet surfers, whose only DA song on their computer is "Roll to > Me" from some 90's Hits compilation. Come on, give us some credit > Allison. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:57:13 -0000 From: "Robert Heaney" Subject: OV: Re: Uncle Devil Show - download from my webspace Evening and greetings from the sunny and cold U.K. Many thanks Dirk for the mp3's of the U.D.S. Rest assured , the first chance I get to buy this album I will. Come on folks. Who hasn't copied a C.D. and given it to a family member or friend. What I am saying here is let him who is without sin cast the first stone.' - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:31 AM Subject: OV: Uncle Devil Show - download from my webspace > Hi list, > > someone kindly provided me with the whole Uncle devil show (big thanks to > this person which I am not meant to mention :-)). Now I like to share it > with you. I've uploaded it to my webspace, so please get it within a week > or two, 'cos I'm gonna delete the files in about 2 weeks. > > I uploaded it here: > > http://www.delamitri.de/temp/uds.htm > > > have fun! :-) > > Dirk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:46:09 -0000 From: "Wilson Associates" Subject: OV: Re: UDS Who can say whether it will affect sales - positively or negatively. I'm grateful for a chance to listen now and will be first in the queue to but the real thing if and when it becomes available. No true fan would be satisfied with just the downloads. Steve - ----- Original Message ----- From: "angela hughes" To: "posting message" Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 3:40 PM Subject: OV: UDS > This will definately effect sales...people like freebies it's human nature. > > A ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:36:29 -0800 (PST) From: debbsc67 Subject: Re: OV: Uncle Devil Show - download from my webspace That url is no good. :-( - --- Dirk.Wonhoefer@eberle-augsburg.de wrote: > Hi list, > > someone kindly provided me with the whole Uncle > devil show (big thanks to > this person which I am not meant to mention :-)). > Now I like to share it > with you. I've uploaded it to my webspace, so please > get it within a week > or two, 'cos I'm gonna delete the files in about 2 > weeks. > > I uploaded it here: > > http://www.delamitri.de/temp/uds.htm > > > have fun! :-) > > Dirk __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:27:45 +0000 From: Andrew Douglas Subject: OV: Come out of lurking! i read this a good while ago, it makes interesting reading to those interested in falling CD sales etc... apparently it's not down to dowloads afterall! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3117505.stm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:21:54 EST From: SngWrite1@aol.com Subject: OV: It's the Devil, you know Well, I got it (not download) and rest assured I'll definitely be buying it, if it ever comes out. I want to know who played on it. I want to see the lyrics in print. I want to know if they use pseudonyms or their real names. I want the whole package. (I had CYDMG before it came out, and I still bought that - and had to buy it as an import too!) Posting it for download without the consent (and/or compensation) of the copyright holders IS most certainly illegal though. So whoever does have it up, I would recommend taking it down. I do think the people who are so adamant about getting their mitts on this material will find a way to get ahold of it eventually. I also think they are, like me, most likely to buy it when it does come out. I think true fans will support the guys by buying the album when it is commercially available. The casual fans probably aren't interested enough to seek it out. Those of us who still frequent this board have been hungering for new material for a long time. And for a long time there has been nothing but silence. Now people have a reason to get excited again. And that's not a bad thing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:33:36 +0100 From: Dirk.Wonhoefer@eberle-augsburg.de Subject: OV: UDS mp3's down since yesterday Hi list, yesterday Jason Fiber (Superfectarecordings) emailed me and told me that in his opinion it would be best to take the songs down, and so I did. He said that there are people on this list who have access to Justin, and that one of these should ask JC directly. If Justin says it's OK to post these tracks here, I'll put them all up again. Otherwise, you'll have to look for an other chance to get them or just wait for the album to appear. :-) bye, Dirk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:05:22 +0100 From: Dirk.Wonhoefer@eberle-augsburg.de Subject: OV: UDS, copyright and contacting JC Re-hi list, what I forgot in my last email: If someone's kind enough to contact Justin and ask for his permission, could I be informed please? Another thing is, I do not say thanks for all the "support" emails I got from various members of the list. Well, it's nice to get heaps of mails saying "we're standing behind you", but all this is about copyright. And copyright is not about people who are saying something's OK, but about the one person who takes harm from all this. And I know lots about copyright (even if it may not seem so ;-)), and the last thing I want to do is harm JC or any other artist. In fact, until now I understood all of my efforts of putting up concert-mp3's and so on my website as a way of promoting the Dels. I know that the real decision about promoting the band is not up to me, but up to the record label. Honestly I have to say, the Dels former record labels didn't seem to be fans of Del Amitri. I am. And so I'll keep posting concert mp3's and rare b-sides on my website. I'd like to put an end to this whole discussion with this post, if that's ok. Even if some of you are sad that they didn't get the chance to download the UDS-tracks as they were still up. It's better to have them down for now. Maybe Justin will allow to put them up again. yours, Dirk ------------------------------ End of oppositeview-digest V5 #143 **********************************