From: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org (oppositeview-digest) To: oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Subject: oppositeview-digest V4 #243 Reply-To: oppositeview@smoe.org Sender: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oppositeview-digest Friday, September 27 2002 Volume 04 : Number 243 Today's Subjects: ----------------- OV: Busy week in the music biz.... ["Jen Woyan" ] Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic [doug brown ] OV: twisted etc. ["tina maidman" ] Re: OV: twisted etc. [Alison Bellach ] Re: OV: twisted etc. ["tina maidman" ] Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic [doug brown ] Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic ["Jen Woyan" Subject: OV: Busy week in the music biz.... Artists Turn Out For Label Accounting Hearing http://www.billboard.com/billboard/daily/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1713005 The long-simmering issue of record industry accounting practices came to a boil yesterday (Sept. 24) as artists and label executives faced off during a daylong California Senate committee hearing in Los Angeles.... Artists Fight Music File-Sharing http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/26/business/26ADCO.html?ex=1033704000&en=cbbe4cb8f88be645&ei=5040&partner=MOREOVER WHEN it comes to musical styles, Britney Spears, Luciano Pavarotti and Sean Combs, lately known as P. Diddy, do not appear to have much in common. But in a series of advertisements that begin running today, they are joining with 86 other recording artists to speak out against unauthorized music file-sharing, claiming it threatens the livelihood of everyone from recording artists and writers to sound engineers and record-store clerks.... Are Media Companies Missing the Boat? http://boston.internet.com/news/article.php/1470191 Following the mass popularity of the now-defunct peer-to-peer network Napster, major media companies began taking the prospect of digital media seriously, but the choice of how to address the new technology has been a source of debate among all sides. A new report released Wednesday is adding fuel to what critics of media companies have been saying for years: companies are wasting too many resources fighting digital piracy while overlooking potential opportunities the technology offers..... File-sharing upgrade taunts record labels http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2277987.stm Popular file-swapping system Kazaa has released a new version of its core software and announced an important alliance. The swapping network has signed a deal with European net service provider Tiscali which will see both partners promote each other to their respective audiences..... Music Biz Lament: Stealing Hurts http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,55393,00.html The recording industry launches a multi-million-dollar advertising campaign on Thursday to drive home one simple message: downloading music is bad. The first full-page ads appear in The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times, and the congressional paper Roll Call with large, all-caps text that reads "Who Really Cares About Illegal Downloading?" surrounded by quotes from musicians condemning online file trading. Similar television spots will begin airing in the next few months..... Nashville musician receives $500,000 grant http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/state/article/0,1406,KNS_348_1437895,00.html NASHVILLE - A Nashville bassist/composer who has worked in classical and bluegrass music was named a MacArthur fellow on Tuesday, earning him a no-strings-attached grant of $500,000..... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 08:23:00 -0700 (PDT) From: doug brown Subject: Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic > So, Matchbox 20 can rip-off the Dels, but the Dels > can't have a label deal > of their own? Right. Great. sigh.... Sadly my first reaction to this was that if the Dels were still making music like they did from Twisted and Change Everything they might still have a label. Still singing Belong Belong, - - Doug! ===== - -Doug . New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 11:44:50 -0400 From: Michael Mitchell Subject: Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic On 9/26/02 11:23 AM, "doug brown" wrote: >> So, Matchbox 20 can rip-off the Dels, but the Dels >> can't have a label deal >> of their own? Right. Great. sigh.... > > Sadly my first reaction to this was that if the Dels > were still making music like they did from Twisted and > Change Everything they might still have a label. > I hate it when Doug's right ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 11:55:32 EDT From: SngWrite1@aol.com Subject: Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic Oh Doug, you know that if they were still making music like Twisted and Change Everything then you'd be complaining about how they are always repeating themselves. If they were concerned about keeping their deal, they would have given us "Roll To Me" again and again - since it was a "hit" and labels love the hits. Thankfully they decided not to go this route and at least have taken some chances. I respect them a lot more for trying new things rather than getting stale and burning themselves out on one style. And I heard the new Matchbox 20 song that Jen mentioned, and I think it was everything that the Dels aren't - sickly-sweet glossy production, musically bland and lyrically inane (as is every Matchbox 20 song I've ever heard). All their songs are interchangable to my ears. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 12:17:08 -0400 From: Michael Mitchell Subject: Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic I dunno Dave. I've always felt they haven't been true to themselves since Twisted. I have the impression that the band became disillusioned after Twisted, as good as they knew it was, didn't achieve blockbuster success. Just about everything since then to me sounds a little calculated. You say 'trying new things' but to me it sounds like 'chasing the latest thing'. On 9/26/02 11:55 AM, "SngWrite1@aol.com" wrote: > Oh Doug, you know that if they were still making music like Twisted and > Change Everything then you'd be complaining about how they are always > repeating themselves. > > If they were concerned about keeping their deal, they would have given us > "Roll To Me" again and again - since it was a "hit" and labels love the hits. > Thankfully they decided not to go this route and at least have taken some > chances. I respect them a lot more for trying new things rather than getting > stale and burning themselves out on one style. > > And I heard the new Matchbox 20 song that Jen mentioned, and I think it was > everything that the Dels aren't - sickly-sweet glossy production, musically > bland and lyrically inane (as is every Matchbox 20 song I've ever heard). > All their songs are interchangable to my ears. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:35:47 EDT From: SngWrite1@aol.com Subject: Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic Chasing the latest thing? Please cite some examples of what you think the Dels were chasing. "Not being true to themselves"? I can see people saying that about CYDMG? because of it's sonic departure (I disagree though), but what about SOSP? Again, Justin could have dashed off variations on "Roll To Me" for the next few albums if he was trying to be calculated and just do what the label wanted. The cardinal sin of an artist in my opinion is to become boring. My favorite album is still Waking Hours, but I already have one copy of that album, I'd be bored if they hadn't changed a bit over the years. I don't want five albums that all sound like Waking Hours. Taking a chance of confounding people's expectations also means you risk not meeting those expectations for some. It is better to try and fail than not to try. And I don't think it cost them their deal, A&M getting swallowed by giant after giant cost them their deal. It's clear that Mercury never wanted them, and I'm still surprised that they even released CYDMG? at all. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 14:42:43 -0400 From: Michael Mitchell Subject: Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic Well, I wasn't really talking about 'Roll to me' -- I was talking about the rest of the album. (Ins't it a shame that 'roll to me' came to define that album and ultimately the band?) I appreciate your fear that they might start to sound trite if they kept playing straight ahead edgy acoustic rock album after album -- but I gotta imagine those albums would've been a lot better than what they came up with. And maybe that was Doug's point. In some cases reinventing your sound is a good thing. Wilco for example I think gets better and better though they've obviously changed radically from their Uncle Tupelo roots. To my ears, though, their stuff continues to sound relevant and honest. The bulk of the post-Twisted del amitri stuff just doesn't. On 9/26/02 1:35 PM, "SngWrite1@aol.com" wrote: > Chasing the latest thing? Please cite some examples of what you think the > Dels were chasing. > > "Not being true to themselves"? I can see people saying that about CYDMG? > because of it's sonic departure (I disagree though), but what about SOSP? > Again, Justin could have dashed off variations on "Roll To Me" for the next > few albums if he was trying to be calculated and just do what the label > wanted. > > The cardinal sin of an artist in my opinion is to become boring. My favorite > album is still Waking Hours, but I already have one copy of that album, I'd > be bored if they hadn't changed a bit over the years. I don't want five > albums that all sound like Waking Hours. > > Taking a chance of confounding people's expectations also means you risk not > meeting those expectations for some. It is better to try and fail than not > to try. > > And I don't think it cost them their deal, A&M getting swallowed by giant > after giant cost them their deal. It's clear that Mercury never wanted them, > and I'm still surprised that they even released CYDMG? at all. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 15:48:23 EDT From: SngWrite1@aol.com Subject: OV: OT: Tom Waits on using songs in commercials As usual, TW gets it right: http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20021007&s=letter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 20:59:13 +0100 From: "Claire O'Rourke" Subject: OV: Dels heard Scotlands newest soap playing Scotlands top band! Watching the second episode of 'The River' tonight came Justins voice loudly singing JBYL..........none of your in the background stuff.......full volume...he stole the scene!! Well at least I'm happy :0) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 20:49:15 +0100 From: "tina maidman" Subject: OV: twisted etc. as I understood it, Del were signed to Mercury by the guy who originally signed them to A&M, he then was subsequently fired and Del are now on a label with new people who have no idea what they're about. The sad truth is Del don't fit into any 'market' and never did, they're a record company's nightmare, they have a strong fan base, write descent songs but have no image, or market label to pin on them. The only reason A&M stayed with them was 'Roll To Me' had the USA not picked up on that, it would've been another good album neglected. I'm sure the record company 'big wigs' were scratching their heads when 'Here and Now' made little impression on the singles chart (they even commissioned a decent video!), if they couldn't have a hit with that....???? Unfortunately Del were always going to be treading water after the big corporate shake up, whether they put out 'Twisted' album after 'Twisted' album. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 12:49:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison Bellach Subject: Re: OV: twisted etc. That's not true -- they're on NO label now. On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, tina maidman wrote: > as I understood it, Del were signed to Mercury by the guy who originally > signed them to A&M, he then was subsequently fired and Del are now on a label > with new people who have no idea what they're about. The sad truth is Del > don't fit into any 'market' and never did, they're a record company's > nightmare, they have a strong fan base, write descent songs but have no image, > or market label to pin on them. The only reason A&M stayed with them was 'Roll > To Me' had the USA not picked up on that, it would've been another good album > neglected. I'm sure the record company 'big wigs' were scratching their heads > when 'Here and Now' made little impression on the singles chart (they even > commissioned a decent video!), if they couldn't have a hit with that....???? > Unfortunately Del were always going to be treading water after the big > corporate shake up, whether they put out 'Twisted' album after 'Twisted' > album. > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Alison Bellach: alibee@delamitri.com http://alibee.linex.com http://www.delamitri.com "If you want peace, work for justice." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 21:01:25 +0100 From: "tina maidman" Subject: Re: OV: twisted etc. what's not true?? of course I know they're not a record label now! I was just pointing out one of the many reasons, it was never going to work on Mercury. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alison Bellach" To: "Opposite View" Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 8:49 PM Subject: Re: OV: twisted etc. > That's not true -- they're on NO label now. > > On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, tina maidman wrote: > > > as I understood it, Del were signed to Mercury by the guy who originally > > signed them to A&M, he then was subsequently fired and Del are now on a label > > with new people who have no idea what they're about. The sad truth is Del > > don't fit into any 'market' and never did, they're a record company's > > nightmare, they have a strong fan base, write descent songs but have no image, > > or market label to pin on them. The only reason A&M stayed with them was 'Roll > > To Me' had the USA not picked up on that, it would've been another good album > > neglected. I'm sure the record company 'big wigs' were scratching their heads > > when 'Here and Now' made little impression on the singles chart (they even > > commissioned a decent video!), if they couldn't have a hit with that....???? > > Unfortunately Del were always going to be treading water after the big > > corporate shake up, whether they put out 'Twisted' album after 'Twisted' > > album. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Alison Bellach: alibee@delamitri.com > http://alibee.linex.com http://www.delamitri.com > "If you want peace, work for justice." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:01:46 -0700 (PDT) From: doug brown Subject: Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic What you mention below is exactly what a lot of people thought they did with SOSP, the song in particular. A lyrically inane, musically bland, sickly sweet followup to Roll to Me. That being said as always I completely respect the Dels artistic freedom to do whatever they want, but obviously the Cry To Be Found and CYDMG? experiments came at the cost of commercial success. Like I said before let's remember it as their Curtis Mayfield Tribute era and move on. Time can pass you by quickly in the music world but I continue to believe if the Dels go back to what they did best they still have a shot. The success of bands like Matchbox 20 and even Dashboard Confessional only affirms this, and look at what say U2 did with going back to the simpler sound of The Joshua Tree with All That You Can't Leave Behind and having it sound fresher than ever. C'mon the B-sides from Twisted still sound better than a lot of this. They can do it I know they can. Another inspirational messsage from, Reverend Doug Brown > If they were concerned about keeping their deal, > they would have given us > "Roll To Me" again and again - since it was a "hit" > and labels love the hits. > Thankfully they decided not to go this route and at > least have taken some > chances. I respect them a lot more for trying new > things rather than getting > stale and burning themselves out on one style. > > And I heard the new Matchbox 20 song that Jen > mentioned, and I think it was > everything that the Dels aren't - sickly-sweet > glossy production, musically > bland and lyrically inane (as is every Matchbox 20 > song I've ever heard). > All their songs are interchangable to my ears. ===== - -Doug . New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:02:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison Bellach Subject: Re: OV: twisted etc. OH! I thought you were saying NOW they're on a label that doesn't know what they're about. Eep. On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, tina maidman wrote: > what's not true?? of course I know they're not a record label now! I was > just pointing out one of the many reasons, it was never going to work on > Mercury. > > ----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Alison Bellach" > To: "Opposite View" > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 8:49 PM > Subject: Re: OV: twisted etc. > > > > That's not true -- they're on NO label now. > > > > On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, tina maidman wrote: > > > > > as I understood it, Del were signed to Mercury by the guy who originally > > > signed them to A&M, he then was subsequently fired and Del are now on a > label > > > with new people who have no idea what they're about. The sad truth is > Del > > > don't fit into any 'market' and never did, they're a record company's > > > nightmare, they have a strong fan base, write descent songs but have no > image, > > > or market label to pin on them. The only reason A&M stayed with them was > 'Roll > > > To Me' had the USA not picked up on that, it would've been another good > album > > > neglected. I'm sure the record company 'big wigs' were scratching their > heads > > > when 'Here and Now' made little impression on the singles chart (they > even > > > commissioned a decent video!), if they couldn't have a hit with > that....???? > > > Unfortunately Del were always going to be treading water after the big > > > corporate shake up, whether they put out 'Twisted' album after 'Twisted' > > > album. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Alison Bellach: alibee@delamitri.com > > http://alibee.linex.com http://www.delamitri.com > > "If you want peace, work for justice." > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Alison Bellach: alibee@delamitri.com http://alibee.linex.com http://www.delamitri.com "If you want peace, work for justice." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 16:16:44 -0500 From: "Jen Woyan" Subject: Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic >>And I heard the new Matchbox 20 song that Jen mentioned, and I think it >>was everything that the Dels aren't - sickly-sweet glossy production, >>musically bland and lyrically inane (as is every Matchbox 20 song I've >>ever heard). All their songs are interchangable to my ears.<< Just for the record - I didn't say I LIKED the song.... Just making mention of an observation that a few people made me aware of... And to which I admit I can hear some of the similarities production & structurewise. I would never begin to compare M20's lyrics to Justin's - apples & grubworms IMHO. Cheers, Jen P.S. But it's nice to see people talking about somehting again - it was getting too quiet.... - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Michael Mitchell To: , Subject: Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 12:17:08 -0400 I dunno Dave. I've always felt they haven't been true to themselves since Twisted. I have the impression that the band became disillusioned after Twisted, as good as they knew it was, didn't achieve blockbuster success. Just about everything since then to me sounds a little calculated. You say 'trying new things' but to me it sounds like 'chasing the latest thing'. On 9/26/02 11:55 AM, "SngWrite1@aol.com" wrote: > Oh Doug, you know that if they were still making music like Twisted and > Change Everything then you'd be complaining about how they are always > repeating themselves. > > If they were concerned about keeping their deal, they would have given us > "Roll To Me" again and again - since it was a "hit" and labels love the hits. > Thankfully they decided not to go this route and at least have taken some > chances. I respect them a lot more for trying new things rather than getting > stale and burning themselves out on one style. > > And I heard the new Matchbox 20 song that Jen mentioned, and I think it was > everything that the Dels aren't - sickly-sweet glossy production, musically > bland and lyrically inane (as is every Matchbox 20 song I've ever heard). > All their songs are interchangable to my ears. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 07:41:41 +1000 From: Alessandro Campobassi Subject: Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic Doug, It was the production of SOSP that let it down, not the songs or the lyrics. The muddy, muffled sound it produced is what doesn't do the album justice. You record SOSP with the engineer and producer from Twisted, and you'd have an album of lyrical and musical masterpieces. Songs like Medicine, and What I think She Sees and No Family Man could have fit right into Twisted's 2nd half. SOSP was (and still is) a great album that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Definitely agree that some of the b-sides from Twisted are superb! Life by Mistake, In the Meantime - these are simply treasures. Ciao Sandro At 01:01 PM 9/26/02 -0700, doug brown wrote: >What you mention below is exactly what a lot of people >thought they did with SOSP, the song in particular. A >lyrically inane, musically bland, sickly sweet >followup to Roll to Me. > >That being said as always I completely respect the >Dels artistic freedom to do whatever they want, but >obviously the Cry To Be Found and CYDMG? experiments >came at the cost of commercial success. Like I said >before let's remember it as their Curtis Mayfield >Tribute era and move on. > >Time can pass you by quickly in the music world but I >continue to believe if the Dels go back to what they >did best they still have a shot. The success of bands >like Matchbox 20 and even Dashboard Confessional only >affirms this, and look at what say U2 did with going >back to the simpler sound of The Joshua Tree with All >That You Can't Leave Behind and having it sound >fresher than ever. C'mon the B-sides from Twisted >still sound better than a lot of this. > >They can do it I know they can. > >Another inspirational messsage from, > >Reverend Doug Brown > - -- Alessandro Campobassi Visit 'Del Amitri - The 5th Fret' http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/aless/index.html A comprehensive collection of chords and lyrics of Del Amitri. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 14:53:46 -0700 (PDT) From: debbsc67 Subject: Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic It's all true. Well, except that I can't really speak to the "new" Matchbox 20 song, but to be honest, they all sound the same to me, as well. In fact, I can't even think of a memorable lyric offhand. I doubt they were *trying* to sound like Del Amitri, but if they were, hey, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...so they say. As far as the branching out the Dels did, it was their call, their music. I don't normally like all that computer programming messing about junk, but it grew on me. The whole "everyone's doing it" is not far off base and it's definately been a trend for a while. CYDMG? won't ever be my fave, but I don't hate it either. There are bits of our ol' Dels in there, so it's not a total transformation. I hated it when U2 started doing it...felt they'd "sold out" but at least they're trying to come back from it and get back to their old roots (although they're still hanging on to some of the new "technology" argh!) Basically, I'm not holding my breath, but I'm not giving up, either. If they want to, they'll just reinvent themselves. They've done it before, they can do it again. debbie - --- SngWrite1@aol.com wrote: > Oh Doug, you know that if they were still making > music like Twisted and > Change Everything then you'd be complaining about > how they are always > repeating themselves. > > If they were concerned about keeping their deal, > they would have given us > "Roll To Me" again and again - since it was a "hit" > and labels love the hits. > Thankfully they decided not to go this route and at > least have taken some > chances. I respect them a lot more for trying new > things rather than getting > stale and burning themselves out on one style. > > And I heard the new Matchbox 20 song that Jen > mentioned, and I think it was > everything that the Dels aren't - sickly-sweet > glossy production, musically > bland and lyrically inane (as is every Matchbox 20 > song I've ever heard). > All their songs are interchangable to my ears. New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 16:55:17 -0500 From: "Jen Woyan" Subject: OV: ya know, this MUST have something to do with the Dels & UMG...a conspiracy... Vivendi used 'somewhat peculiar' method to transfer 1 billion euro to Ireland- CFO http://www.ananova.com/business/story/sm_679099.html?menu=business.latestheadlines Vivendi Universal used a "somewhat peculiar" method in 1997 to transfer 1 billion euro in "provisions" to an Irish reinsurance company in connection with a number of local authority contracts, Vivendi's current CFO Jacques Espinasse said at a parliamentary hearing. "In 1997, a somewhat peculiar method was constructed to transfer provisions to a reinsurance company, for a very large sum, a billion" euro, Espinasse told the National Assembly's Finance Commission. The recipient was "to my knowledge, Irish," he added. Espinasse gave no further details about the Irish company, its relationship with Vivendi, or any of the contracts involved. He was responding to a question about a possible transfer to Vivendi Universal by its unit Vivendi Environnement of 20 billion ffr (3 billion eur) in provisions related to local authority water management contracts. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 22:57:55 -0500 From: "Leah Schenkenberg" Subject: RE: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic matchbox twenty has always aimed for mediocre. I remember reading about their second album coming out, and rob thomas saying "great bands don't sell records". He's always admitted being middle of the road, writing catchy tunes, not necessarily great ones. I find myself quite in love with many of their lyrics, mostly ones that weren't radio play, but I also know all the words to the ghostwriter theme song and other such embarassments, so my opinion doesn't count for much. I won't share how many times I've seen matchbox twenty in concert--with the Police and Del Amitri as my favorite bands, I have to have someone I like I can actually see live. But even if no one can remember his lyrics, Rob Thomas is the most emotive pianist I've ever seen, in any genre. If that counts for anything, I guess. But he really is amazing with a set of keys... Leah The stars are twinkling in the sky (the rhyming song, the rhyming song) There's no hot water in my hotel (the------rhyming--------song------?) ~~Bert, and other random Muppets - -----Original Message----- From: owner-oppositeview@smoe.org [mailto:owner-oppositeview@smoe.org]On Behalf Of debbsc67 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 4:54 PM To: oppositeview@smoe.org Subject: Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic It's all true. Well, except that I can't really speak to the "new" Matchbox 20 song, but to be honest, they all sound the same to me, as well. In fact, I can't even think of a memorable lyric offhand. I doubt they were *trying* to sound like Del Amitri, but if they were, hey, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...so they say. As far as the branching out the Dels did, it was their call, their music. I don't normally like all that computer programming messing about junk, but it grew on me. The whole "everyone's doing it" is not far off base and it's definately been a trend for a while. CYDMG? won't ever be my fave, but I don't hate it either. There are bits of our ol' Dels in there, so it's not a total transformation. I hated it when U2 started doing it...felt they'd "sold out" but at least they're trying to come back from it and get back to their old roots (although they're still hanging on to some of the new "technology" argh!) Basically, I'm not holding my breath, but I'm not giving up, either. If they want to, they'll just reinvent themselves. They've done it before, they can do it again. debbie - --- SngWrite1@aol.com wrote: > Oh Doug, you know that if they were still making > music like Twisted and > Change Everything then you'd be complaining about > how they are always > repeating themselves. > > If they were concerned about keeping their deal, > they would have given us > "Roll To Me" again and again - since it was a "hit" > and labels love the hits. > Thankfully they decided not to go this route and at > least have taken some > chances. I respect them a lot more for trying new > things rather than getting > stale and burning themselves out on one style. > > And I heard the new Matchbox 20 song that Jen > mentioned, and I think it was > everything that the Dels aren't - sickly-sweet > glossy production, musically > bland and lyrically inane (as is every Matchbox 20 > song I've ever heard). > All their songs are interchangable to my ears. New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:38:33 +0100 From: "Whittingham, Karen" Subject: RE: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic Yes I think SOSP is one of their best albums and some of the songs should definitely have been big hits. It seems such a waste that the songs haven't been heard by more people. - -----Original Message----- From: Alessandro Campobassi [mailto:alessandro@tpg.com.au] Sent: 26 September 2002 22:42 To: oppositeview@smoe.org Subject: Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic Doug, It was the production of SOSP that let it down, not the songs or the lyrics. The muddy, muffled sound it produced is what doesn't do the album justice. You record SOSP with the engineer and producer from Twisted, and you'd have an album of lyrical and musical masterpieces. Songs like Medicine, and What I think She Sees and No Family Man could have fit right into Twisted's 2nd half. SOSP was (and still is) a great album that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Definitely agree that some of the b-sides from Twisted are superb! Life by Mistake, In the Meantime - these are simply treasures. Ciao Sandro At 01:01 PM 9/26/02 -0700, doug brown wrote: >What you mention below is exactly what a lot of people >thought they did with SOSP, the song in particular. A >lyrically inane, musically bland, sickly sweet >followup to Roll to Me. > >That being said as always I completely respect the >Dels artistic freedom to do whatever they want, but >obviously the Cry To Be Found and CYDMG? experiments >came at the cost of commercial success. Like I said >before let's remember it as their Curtis Mayfield >Tribute era and move on. > >Time can pass you by quickly in the music world but I >continue to believe if the Dels go back to what they >did best they still have a shot. The success of bands >like Matchbox 20 and even Dashboard Confessional only >affirms this, and look at what say U2 did with going >back to the simpler sound of The Joshua Tree with All >That You Can't Leave Behind and having it sound >fresher than ever. C'mon the B-sides from Twisted >still sound better than a lot of this. > >They can do it I know they can. > >Another inspirational messsage from, > >Reverend Doug Brown > - -- Alessandro Campobassi Visit 'Del Amitri - The 5th Fret' http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/aless/index.html A comprehensive collection of chords and lyrics of Del Amitri. The contents of this email are confidential to the intended recipient at the email address to which it has been addressed. It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than this addressee, nor may it be copied in any way. If received in error, please contact DLA, a UK law firm, (http://www.dla.com/) on +44 (0) 8700 111111 quoting the name of the sender and the addressee and then delete it from your system. Please note that neither DLA nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan the email and attachments (if any). No contracts may be concluded on behalf of DLA by means of email communications. A list of the names of the partners of DLA (who are either solicitors or registered foreign lawyers) and their qualifications is available for inspection at 3 Noble Street, London, EC2V 7EE, UK. Regulated by the Law Society. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 18:47:25 +1000 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Holt?= Subject: RE: OV: Depression - not necessarily off-topic Been away for a while and haven't read all the emails yet but just to add to what Sandro said about those b-sides I think that withoutout doubt some of the very best potential singles the Dels have ever recorded were insanely forced into b-side oblivion... In the Meantime and A Better Man, I'm An Unbeliever jumping to mind straight away... Michael :) --- "Whittingham, Karen" wrote: > Yes I think SOSP is one of their best albums and > some of the songs should > definitely have been big hits. It seems such a > waste that the songs haven't > been heard by more people. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alessandro Campobassi > [mailto:alessandro@tpg.com.au] > Sent: 26 September 2002 22:42 > To: oppositeview@smoe.org > Subject: Re: OV: Depression - not necessarily > off-topic > > > Doug, > It was the production of SOSP that let it down, not > the songs or the > lyrics. The muddy, muffled sound it produced is what > doesn't do the album > justice. > You record SOSP with the engineer and producer from > Twisted, and you'd have > an album of lyrical and musical masterpieces. Songs > like Medicine, and What > I think She Sees and No Family Man could have fit > right into Twisted's 2nd > half. > SOSP was (and still is) a great album that was in > the wrong place at the > wrong time. > > Definitely agree that some of the b-sides from > Twisted are superb! > Life by Mistake, In the Meantime - these are simply > treasures. > > Ciao > Sandro > > > At 01:01 PM 9/26/02 -0700, doug brown wrote: > >What you mention below is exactly what a lot of > people > >thought they did with SOSP, the song in particular. > A > >lyrically inane, musically bland, sickly sweet > >followup to Roll to Me. > > > >That being said as always I completely respect the > >Dels artistic freedom to do whatever they want, but > >obviously the Cry To Be Found and CYDMG? > experiments > >came at the cost of commercial success. Like I said > >before let's remember it as their Curtis Mayfield > >Tribute era and move on. > > > >Time can pass you by quickly in the music world but > I > >continue to believe if the Dels go back to what > they > >did best they still have a shot. The success of > bands > >like Matchbox 20 and even Dashboard Confessional > only > >affirms this, and look at what say U2 did with > going > >back to the simpler sound of The Joshua Tree with > All > >That You Can't Leave Behind and having it sound > >fresher than ever. C'mon the B-sides from Twisted > >still sound better than a lot of this. > > > >They can do it I know they can. > > > >Another inspirational messsage from, > > > >Reverend Doug Brown > > > > -- > Alessandro Campobassi > > Visit 'Del Amitri - The 5th Fret' > http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/aless/index.html > A comprehensive collection of chords and lyrics of > Del Amitri. > > The contents of this email are confidential to the > intended recipient at the email address to which it > has been addressed. It may not be disclosed to or > used by anyone other than this addressee, nor may it > be copied in any way. If received in error, please > contact DLA, a UK law firm, (http://www.dla.com/) on > +44 (0) 8700 111111 quoting the name of the sender > and the addressee and then delete it from your > system. > > Please note that neither DLA nor the sender accepts > any responsibility for viruses and it is your > responsibility to scan the email and attachments (if > any). No contracts may be concluded on behalf of > DLA by means of email communications. > > A list of the names of the partners of DLA (who are > either solicitors or registered foreign lawyers) and > their qualifications is available for inspection at > 3 Noble Street, London, EC2V 7EE, UK. > > Regulated by the Law Society. http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - - Always be connected to your Messenger Friends ------------------------------ End of oppositeview-digest V4 #243 **********************************