From: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org (oppositeview-digest) To: oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Subject: oppositeview-digest V4 #152 Reply-To: oppositeview@smoe.org Sender: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oppositeview-digest Wednesday, June 12 2002 Volume 04 : Number 152 Today's Subjects: ----------------- OV: RE: oppositeview-digest V4 #151 ["Johnson, Tony D" ] OV: why the band is awesome [Alison Bellach ] Re: OV: What's next? ["Rachel Wifall" ] OV: RE: why the band is awesome ["Leighton J. [LN]" ] RE: OV: what next [darren@bendcable.com] Re: OV: what next ["Lynne Templeton" ] OV: what does everyone think ["the Gardners" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:41:33 +0100 From: "Johnson, Tony D" Subject: OV: RE: oppositeview-digest V4 #151 > Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 20:40:13 -0500 > From: "Ed Minton" > Subject: OV: What's next? > > Delurking momentarily to post a fairly negatively feeling response. > Sorry, > but I think you've answered your own question: > > "bad label and bad management making bad decisions" > > And, this is not new. It's been that way from the beginning. Further > compounding the lack of promotion, they simply have not played enough. > They > have always been underexposed. > > Despite reading many references to their "alleged" extensive touring > history, > particulary in the British press, I'd be surprised if they've played 300 > shows > in America, or 500 worldwide, over the course of their whole career. If > that > number sounds like a lot, simply for a comparison, I can tell you that > Wilco, > for example, averages 125 per year. I'm not sure that the Dels ever > personally understood that this is what is necessary to "make it" in > America. > Or, if they did, then "making it" is simply not something that they've > ever > been particularly interested in. I'd just like for them to be successful > enough to continue to write, record, and play in America. > > I think that part of the problem is the huge difference in the British and > American markets, too. From what I can tell, rock bands are still fairly > common in the UK charts. Not in America. Not anymore. Here's the Top > Ten, > according to the current issue of Rolling Stone: > > 1) Musiq/Juslisen > 2) Celine Dion/A New Day Has Come > 3) Lauryn Hill/MTV Unplugged > 4) Ashanti/Ashanti > 5) Spider Man Soundtrack > 6) Sheryl Crow/C'mon, C'mon > 7) Kenny Chesney/No Shirt, No Shoes, No Problem > 8) Various Artists/Now 9 > 9) Josh Groban/Josh Groban > 10) Big Tymers/Hood Rich > > Easy to see why Del Amitri do not fit into anyone's marketing scheme in > America. (Neither do I!!!!). The College Radio chart is a considerably > more > friendly. > > Bands of the moment, like "Creed," "Nickleback,"and "Sugar Ray" are more > an > exception than the rule on the American pop charts these days. I'm sure > that > those bands are playing 150+ shows per year over the last couple of years. > The Goo Goo Dolls are a band that have been somewhat successful, largely > due > to enduring a grueling tour schedule for several years, prior to scoring a > "hit." > > I've always wondered why the Dels are so driven by the pop market, but > I've > come to the conclusion that it's just their UK orientation. Justin goes > on > about wanting a number one single. Why in the world would he care? Name > a > "Number One" hit, (in America), from the past three years that didn't > suck. > Do you think "writers" like John Hiatt, for example, give a rat's ass > whether > or not they've written a hit single? I don't think so. Not these days. > But > I'll bet he plays that 125 to 150 shows every year, and makes a decent > living. > And I don't believe the Dels have it in them to do that. I think they > wanna > be "stars." > > So, back to your queston. WHAT HAPPENS NOW? > > Don't you see? As far as JPR is concerned, NOTHING EVER HAPPENS. > Unfortunately, it seems to me that Justin and Iain have always seemed > content > to wait for someone else to make it happen for them, so if there's blame > to > talk about, then there's probably plenty to pass around. So, I'm afraid > that > as you say, "a slow slide into further obscurity" seems the most likely > scenario. I hope I'm wrong, because I think that Justin is one of the > most > talented singer/songwriters out there today. Maybe some filmaker will use > one > of their songs and they'll sneak into the American conciousness through > the > back door.... > > Cheers, > Ed "who thinks that if the Dels would play 125 shows in America every > year, > everything would take care of itself" Minton > > ------------------------------ > The impression I've always had is that the last thing they would want is to be "stars". I just don't think they can be arsed to get into all that. I imagine that they just want to earn a reasonable living doing what they like doing - playing and writing music. Unfortunately, I suspect that the market is no longer there to support them in doing that - and record companies clearly feel the same. What you might call an "uncertain future" for the band I'm afraid. Cheers, Tony - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information contained in or attached to this email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are not authorised to and must not disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it. It may contain information which is confidential and/or covered by legal professional or other privilege (or other rules or laws with similar effect in jurisdictions outside England and Wales). The views expressed in this email are not necessarily the views of Centrica plc, and the company, its directors, officers or employees make no representation or accept any liability for its accuracy or completeness unless expressly stated to the contrary. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:01:40 +0100 From: "Lynne Templeton" Subject: OV: Re: RE: oppositeview-digest V4 #151 Yeah this is what I think as well - that being "famous" isn't really their goal but just to live the life that being in a band gives them. I get the impression they love what they do and they love their music and that means that they'll do it for as long as they can get away with. Trouble is, because they aren't easily going to be at the top of the UK market (don't know enough about the US to be honest) their record company don't really make enough effort. The Dels aren't breaking out of their set group of fans and the record company knows that we're all going to buy the album and go to the tours anyway however much promotion they do. However, there are only so many fans, so they don't push it and so only do a few sets here and there. The US requires a lot of commitment that their fan base in America will be as committed because already you're talking about a huge country (compared to the UK) that forces massive travel bills. The UK is almost guarenteed as they're already better known over here and the travel expenses are a lot less as it doesn't involve flying their whole team anywhere for a start. In the UK, people are happy to travel from Devon to go to a concert in Glasgow. Not many Americans would travel from Texas to go to a concert in Chicago, for example. Glenn Tilbrook (from Squeeze) has his own record company and has made the decision not to push out the boat for any kind of promotion. He sells his albums on his website and distributes them himself. He doesn't get to number one in the charts but his solid fan base means that he sells a pretty good amount of albums. Plus, because he's selling them himself, he sees so much more money than if it goes through a record company. This means he's able to tour all the time in America as well as the UK. Maybe The Dels should recognise that they already have a good fan base and head in that direction? There are quite a few people on this list and I'm sure there are tons more people who have their website saved in their favourites. If they followed this idea perhaps they would do better? It would mean giving up the hope of getting a wider fan base which I'm sure would be very difficult to do. The spread of fans could only be done by word of mouth. What does everyone else think? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnson, Tony D" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 10:41 AM Subject: OV: RE: oppositeview-digest V4 #151> The impression I've always had is that the last thing they would > want > is to be "stars". I just don't think they can be arsed to get into > all that. > I imagine that they just want to earn a reasonable living doing what > they > like doing - playing and writing music. Unfortunately, I suspect > that the > market is no longer there to support them in doing that - and record > companies clearly feel the same. What you might call an "uncertain > future" > for the band I'm afraid. > > Cheers, > > Tony ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 08:13:49 -0500 From: "Ed Minton" Subject: Re: OV: What's next? Lynne Templeton wrote: >being "famous" isn't really their goal Then what's up with the "Number One" obsession? > they love their music and that means that they'll do it for as long as they can get away with. They obviously do not love it enough to tour and support the studio work. I don't see how any band can have a future if they won't tour. Sorry, but I think they're just lazy. Oh, they'd be up for noodling around in the studio endlessly, but I don't think that they've ever particularly cared for the road. For example, as far as I have been able to determine, they have always played short sets. They rarely do more than ninety minutes, if that. I know that my post seems very negative. I wish it didn't. I really love their work, but I call 'em like I see 'em. Ed "who thinks working 150 days a year doesn't look all that bad, and if you don't wanna do that, then you pretty much wanna be Elvis" Minton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 06:59:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison Bellach Subject: OV: why the band is awesome Hey guys, I just want to tell you about some cool stuff the band have done in the past months that I think rocks :) I've gotten two interesting emails: one, from a man who wants to add a rap to JBYL, and another, from a woman who wanted to give an autographed photo of the band to her husband on their wedding day. I forwarded the first to JPR, and the second I sent directly to Iain. In the past two days, I've heard back from both; Justin gave the guy a thumbs-up to add a rap (although JPR of course had to add some ick about licensing) and Iain directly sent the woman not only an autographed photo, but a congrats card. She was thrilled! So, they may be lazy, but they care. ;) a - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Alison Bellach: alibee@delamitri.com http://alibee.linex.com http://www.delamitri.com "If you want peace, work for justice." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:27:18 -0400 From: "Rachel Wifall" Subject: Re: OV: What's next? Hello All, This is my first venture into the Opposite View. This is an interesting discussion, and it brings up a point I've always wondered about. There have been points at which the Dels have "made it" of sorts in the U.S.--when we would actually hear their music on the radio at regular intervals ("Always the Last to Know" and "Roll to Me," which was on the soundtrack to the movie Flipper, I believe. Someone correct me if I'm wrong). I've also had the really surreal experience of being in some horrible place like the supermarket or a Wendy's fast food restaurant and, in the midst of lots of crap musac, have heard some lovely Del tunes. I always wondered what kind of marketing strategy brought this exposure about. As far as touring goes, until now they were accessible to us in NYC. Obviously something has changed, although I don't know the ins and outs of their business dealings. Overall, while I'd love to see them in concert in the U.S. now, "making it" on the U.S. charts doesn't have much meaning artistically and isn't worth the aggravation, in my humble opinion. Thanks for listening, Rachel - ---- Original Message ----- From: Ed Minton Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 9:19 AM To: Opposite View Subject: Re: OV: What's next? Lynne Templeton wrote: >being "famous" isn't really their goal Then what's up with the "Number One" obsession? > they love their music and that means that they'll do it for as long as they can get away with. They obviously do not love it enough to tour and support the studio work. I don't see how any band can have a future if they won't tour. Sorry, but I think they're just lazy. Oh, they'd be up for noodling around in the studio endlessly, but I don't think that they've ever particularly cared for the road. For example, as far as I have been able to determine, they have always played short sets. They rarely do more than ninety minutes, if that. I know that my post seems very negative. I wish it didn't. I really love their work, but I call 'em like I see 'em. Ed "who thinks working 150 days a year doesn't look all that bad, and if you don't wanna do that, then you pretty much wanna be Elvis" Minton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:16:44 +0100 From: "Leighton J. [LN]" Subject: OV: RE: why the band is awesome That is Tops Alison! - -----Original Message----- From: Alison Bellach [mailto:alibee@delamitri.com] Sent: 11 June 2002 14:59 To: Opposite View Subject: OV: why the band is awesome Hey guys, I just want to tell you about some cool stuff the band have done in the past months that I think rocks :) I've gotten two interesting emails: one, from a man who wants to add a rap to JBYL, and another, from a woman who wanted to give an autographed photo of the band to her husband on their wedding day. I forwarded the first to JPR, and the second I sent directly to Iain. In the past two days, I've heard back from both; Justin gave the guy a thumbs-up to add a rap (although JPR of course had to add some ick about licensing) and Iain directly sent the woman not only an autographed photo, but a congrats card. She was thrilled! So, they may be lazy, but they care. ;) a - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Alison Bellach: alibee@delamitri.com http://alibee.linex.com http://www.delamitri.com "If you want peace, work for justice." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:18:24 +0100 From: "Rich, Rach, Jake & Jodie" Subject: OV: what next I agree wth Lynne that The Dels could make a go of it with ther own record com or studio, I would think that there are people on this mailing list who would know of someone with a studio were they could record and produce their own label at much less a cost than he record industry are currently charging them so that our heroes would end up with more cash and prizes.Also this would grealy benefit Justins writing ability as I feel he could turn out a tune as quick as Stephen King writes books. I dunno abuot whether they wanna be "stars" (at one time or another havn't we all wanted our 15 mins of fame??) But honestly I dont think they can be bothered with stardom either. Uk fans are happy to travel anywhere in the country to see the Dels, somewould onsider travelling to the states also but I feel that much of the Dels promotion is already done by word of mouth by the fans and the great websites and disscussions forums we already have. Im sure all fans try to convert "unbelievers" anyway. So we are doing our bit and the record company is getting alot of the benfit. If they were independent at least we would know they are getting the rewards. The band may have an uncertain future in regards to Mecury but I dont think there is a lot of chance of them splitting or "giving up". They all love what they do and will keep coming back time and time again be that on thier own or with a new deal... but the Dels are here to stay.. (fingers crossed) :>) LONG LIVE DEL AMITRI Love Rach ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:32:45 -0700 From: darren@bendcable.com Subject: RE: OV: what next Isn't the biggest cost promotion? Without it, no one knows your product is out there. If the band were to form their own label, they would be responsible for the promotion. While they may be able to guide it, they wouldn't be able to pay for it. Promoting live shows is much easier. the common practice is to set up a network of fans, supply them with flyers, and the fans put them up in the proper locations (i.e. record stores, coffee shops, etc.) and in exchange for the day of running around, they get 2 tickets to the show. I know one artist, who also has a fan run the merch table in each city! I would love to see the band have more "artistic freedom" (although I don't know that they don't have it now). I think what the band needs is to get on a smaller label; ATO Records; Lost Highway; something like that. They may not get huge tour support, but it'd get them back out there without being forced to cater to 13 year olds. Just my odd opinions.... Darren ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 19:09:57 +0100 From: "Lynne Templeton" Subject: Re: OV: what next > If the band were to form their own label, they would be responsible > for the promotion. While they may be able to guide it, they wouldn't > be able to pay for it. My point was they wouldn't do any promotion other than on their website and through word of mouth - magazines like Q and Mojo would review them anyway and therefore that would almost allow it to promote itself. That's why I said they would have to accept that they wouldn't break out of their fan base at the moment. And lets face it, all of us fans are going to be telling everyone about how great new albums and stuff are just as we already do. So without promotion and with them getting far more money because they're doing it themselves plus don't spend nearly as much on promotion, they're getting far more profits to spend on things like touring. It works for people on Quixotic Records anyway. They've got more money now than they ever did when they were famous. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:04:36 -0400 From: "the Gardners" Subject: OV: what does everyone think > Maybe The Dels > should recognise that they already have a good fan base and head in that > direction? There are quite a few people on this list and I'm sure there are > tons more people who have their website saved in their favourites. If they > followed this idea perhaps they would do better? It would mean giving up > the hope of getting a wider fan base which I'm sure would be very difficult > to do. The spread of fans could only be done by word of mouth. > > What does everyone else think? I think that several of the bandmembers are probably a lot more concerned with their families and new babies than record sales or touring, and that some other bandmembers are more interested in the golden glow of the half-empty glass than in what any of us think say or do. TTFN Susan ------------------------------ End of oppositeview-digest V4 #152 **********************************