From: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org (oppositeview-digest) To: oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Subject: oppositeview-digest V4 #55 Reply-To: oppositeview@smoe.org Sender: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oppositeview-digest Monday, March 4 2002 Volume 04 : Number 055 Today's Subjects: ----------------- OV: CELEBRITY DEATHMATCH: DOUG VERSUS DELS [doug brown ] OV: opinions [Alison Bellach ] OV: New Material [Dirk v d Heyde ] OV: listening to songs more than one time [Arathas@pratchett-fanclub.de] Re: OV: new stuff [bwurm@clickfish.com] Re: OV: New material [Debbie Cushing ] Re: OV: listening to songs more than one time [Debbie Cushing ] OV: Administrivia [Darren Holmquist ] OV: Editorializing [Darren Holmquist ] OV: The whole world is quiet [Dirk.Wonhoefer@eberle-augsburg.de] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 07:56:35 -0800 (PST) From: doug brown Subject: OV: CELEBRITY DEATHMATCH: DOUG VERSUS DELS Heh. So if I make enough noise maybe Kevin will post the whole album, b-sides and Justin's garage full of demos?! TURN UP THE VOLUME DOUG! Anyway post whatever you want my friends. If you like what you hear, if you don't like it, we're all here to talk about the music aren't we? And we're all fans which is why something less than stellar is a disappointment. Cheer the good stuff, boo the bad, that's what it's all about. Like it or not I think there's one thing we can all agree on - this single is not getting the Dels to the USA, and probably not much out of England. That's the real disappointment for many of us on this side of the pond. No matter what I think of this album I'm sure they'll still be great to see live and I'm going to miss it. So anyway, here's my scorecard so far: Just Before You Leave: A song with no prescence that could put elevators to sleep. Justin's voice and meaningless lyrics on top of ... shite. Regurgitated soul ala Sade minus her style. This single is going nowhere. A good video could still prop the song up - but forget about it with the little blue people - get a real rock vid person the next time please. Belong, Belong: I'm intrigued. I don't think it's a bad take on trance at all and hey I'm up for trying it at my next ecstasy orgy rave. The best parts are Justin's stark harmonies on the chorus and some really funky bass, Iain I guess. Still it's not the Dels or what they are about at all and I might be tired of it by next week, let's just say it will appeal to a small market. The Septic Jubilee: Complete throwaway, nothing to see here at all. I will push "skip" everytime this one comes up. I'm An Unbeliever: Yep a pearl in the oyster. And wow 6+ minutes! Definitely one for the fans to wallow around in. It's a shame that Justin traded in his lush industry standard harmonies for something a little bit less, but still this is a B-side to buy a single for. You Love Me: I really don't think I can take any more of these smarmy ballads from the band. They've beat them to death at this point. And what was this about Justin trying to avoid using the word "love" in songs? So it's another throwaway, oh well. So don't let anyone browbeat you - let's hear what everyone else thinks too, isn't that why we're here? Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:17:00 -0000 From: "Kevin Cawthorne" Subject: OV: RE: CELEBRITY DEATHMATCH: DOUG VERSUS DELS > So if I make enough noise maybe Kevin will post the > whole album, b-sides and Justin's garage full of > demos?! TURN UP THE VOLUME DOUG Wraang! That's your lot matey :-) OK, well maybe, it was a good email you wrote, how about a bit of Chas and Dave? Ouch! not fair, they're so British you probably have never heard of them! Anyone remember them, particularly a song called "There ain't no pleasing you"? Hmmm. Audiogalaxy time... Kevin Cawthorne Webmaster - The Official Del Amitri Website UK http://www.delamitri.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------ This message and any attachment has been virus checked - ------------------------------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-oppositeview@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-oppositeview@smoe.org] On Behalf Of doug brown > Sent: 03 March 2002 15:57 > To: oppositeview@smoe.org > Subject: OV: CELEBRITY DEATHMATCH: DOUG VERSUS DELS > > > Heh. > > So if I make enough noise maybe Kevin will post the > whole album, b-sides and Justin's garage full of > demos?! TURN UP THE VOLUME DOUG! > > Anyway post whatever you want my friends. If you like > what you hear, if you don't like it, we're all here to > talk about the music aren't we? > > And we're all fans which is why something less than > stellar is a disappointment. Cheer the good stuff, boo > the bad, that's what it's all about. > > Like it or not I think there's one thing we can all > agree on - this single is not getting the Dels to the > USA, and probably not much out of England. That's the > real disappointment for many of us on this side of the > pond. No matter what I think of this album I'm sure > they'll still be great to see live and I'm going to > miss it. > > So anyway, here's my scorecard so far: > > Just Before You Leave: A song with no prescence that > could put elevators to sleep. Justin's voice and > meaningless lyrics on top of ... shite. Regurgitated > soul ala Sade minus her style. This single is going > nowhere. A good video could still prop the song up - > but forget about it with the little blue people - get > a real rock vid person the next time please. > > Belong, Belong: I'm intrigued. I don't think it's a > bad take on trance at all and hey I'm up for trying it > at my next ecstasy orgy rave. The best parts are > Justin's stark harmonies on the chorus and some really > funky bass, Iain I guess. Still it's not the Dels or > what they are about at all and I might be tired of it > by next week, let's just say it will appeal to a small > market. > > The Septic Jubilee: Complete throwaway, nothing to see > here at all. I will push "skip" everytime this one > comes up. > > I'm An Unbeliever: Yep a pearl in the oyster. And wow > 6+ minutes! Definitely one for the fans to wallow > around in. It's a shame that Justin traded in his lush > industry standard harmonies for something a little bit > less, but still this is a B-side to buy a single for. > > You Love Me: I really don't think I can take any more > of these smarmy ballads from the band. They've beat > them to death at this point. And what was this about > Justin trying to avoid using the word "love" in songs? > So it's another throwaway, oh well. > > So don't let anyone browbeat you - let's hear what > everyone else thinks too, isn't that why we're here? > Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 09:48:08 -0800 From: Kristy McDonald Subject: OV: Re: new stuff >>I don't quite understand this as this is supposed to be somewhere you can speak freely about what you think. What were we supposed to do? Listen to it and remain silent other than, "Thanks for posting the music on the websites, it's all very different"? I think that that would have been the least silent way to say what we were thinking.<< I have to agree with Kirsten on this one, but I think that there is somthing that all of us are overlooking. An album is like a snapshot. WE are only getting to see tiny bits of it at any given time. If you looked at a small piece of a picture, it wouldn't make sense because it's taken out of context, though it may have beauty on it's own merit. I think we're quite right to like or dislike the material. Do you think Justin likes everything he writes? I don't think so. Personally, I think that the CD will be great, and I can't wait to hear the WHOLE thing! Justin could sing the Boston area Yellow Pages and it would still be a gem. I think most of us feel that way. Kristy in Canada ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 10:09:40 -0800 (PST) From: Alison Bellach Subject: OV: opinions In case it matters, I think that the point of OV is to give fans a place to post opinions, regardless of whether or not they are positive. As long as people are backing up their reasoning and not needlessly slamming anyone (including the band, Doug... cripes), then it's all in the spirit of fandom and healthy debate. I doubt anyone on OV wants anything other than success for the Dels, and public opinion is one of the things that could help make that happen. After having heard the album myself, I was very surprised that they chose this as the single, when a) the US, a very very important market, has proven that it likes the catchy stuff (hi, boy bands!), and b) there is a lot of single-quality stuff on the album ("Drunk In A Band", "Buttons On My Clothes", "Out Falls The Past", "Last Cheap Shot", not to mention the fab ballads) However, I think that the Dels have been away from the market too long -- their last success was in '95 -- so this could warm it up for their next single. Of course, if they pick "Jesus Saves", then all is lost. ;) In any case, I am finding what you all think facinating, and I would like to continue to see more of it. Just be nice to each other while you're at it. :) Alison, some chick on the list ;) - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Alison Bellach: alibee@delamitri.com http://alibee.linex.com http://www.delamitri.com "If you want peace, work for justice." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:34:24 +0100 From: Dirk v d Heyde Subject: OV: New Material New material I have been listening to the new songs for the past 24 hours and must say that I can`t understand why so many of you are pissed off. What`s wrong with you? Why shouldn`t the band try out new paths instead of playing the same old acoustics again and again? It happens on my minidisc that Just Before You Leave follows after The Difference is, revealing a kind of healthy developement. Well some of you think they should play the Nothing-Ever-Happens stuff forever, I don`t. Sure I would love live performances of Sense Sickness and Decieve Yourself but I think it is unfair to tear their current work into pieces. Being a recovering addict myself, I feel uncomfortable with the discussion about Justin taking Heroine or not. Anyway I never liked Justin`s cynicism and never will, but at the end of the day it`s the music not the band I love. As a fan of their very early stuff (and in my opinion any Del Amitri fan who loathes the pre-Waking Hours period doesnt qualify...) I know that especially those songs that aren`t accessible at first sight are at their best. Special thanks to Dirk for providing quite a few (1024) songs and, of course, Alison and Kevin for keeping the bond together. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:59:01 +0100 From: Arathas@pratchett-fanclub.de Subject: OV: listening to songs more than one time Birgit wrote: "I find it pretty alarming that most mails are about "repeat listenings". If we lot - who call ourselves fans - have to listen a few times to like the song, what about the big bad rest who couldn't care less about even listening once?" Well, Birgit - I never liked the Dels on first hear. Never. And they're my top favorite band ever ever ever!!!! When I hear a song and like it on first hear, I know that I will be bored hearing it after 10 times. But when I listen to a song and think it's pretty boring, and then I like it after I've listened to it more than three times - that means that the song will have a place in my heart forever. When I first listened to "What I think she sees", I thought that was a damn boring song. Then it grew on me - and now it's one of my Dels all-time-favorites. So, if I liked the album (or the first few songs I know so far) on first hear, that would have been a desaster. I'm the kind of man who has to get into a thing. It's like love: It grows and grows and grows the deeper you get into it..... Dirk PS: Now I agree: "I am an unbeliever" is one of the best Del songs in the last few years. It's SOOOOO damn pretty great!!! Listening it the whole day! :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:19:18 +0100 (MET) From: bwurm@clickfish.com Subject: Re: OV: new stuff I was astounded when the only two people that I've tried to force Del > Amitri.... Keep on trying. My sister's usual comment was that all songs sounded the same and whenever I turned the music on she was like "Del Amitri" in that resigned tone. Then I played her "Before the evening..." and she went for the tungsten-bit. Now she tells me that she's often listening to the CDs I compiled for her! Birgit www.clickfish.com - der menschliche Internet-Guide. Ein Portal f|r alle, die kompetente Hilfe und Beratung im Internet suchen. Mehr als 300 qualifizierte und hilfsbereite Fachleute filtern weltweit als Clickfish-Guides relevante Links, bieten News, Informationen, Foren, Chats und sind als persvnliche Ansprechpartner der schnellste und einfachste Weg, sich im Internet rund um ein Thema zu informieren. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:18:35 -0800 (PST) From: Debbie Cushing Subject: Re: OV: New material Yeah, but who's to say what the band's defintion of success is? Is it pleasing a bunch of snotty-nosed kids with overflowing wallets? Is it getting to number one because they pleased the masses who dole out the cash to buy their records? Or is it to make a record that THEY are proud of? I may be wrong in what their goal is/was, but I've known a few bands who didn't "make it big time" because they refused to bow down to the record label to make the kind of record the "corporate weasels" (as Dave called them, rightly so :-) wanted them to make. Some bands care too much about what others think of them and change their sound to please the masses, but I think most bands really just want to be able to make the music they want to make and sod the rest. The words Leah mentioned could be prophetic, but it all depends on who's doing the dreaming, I suppose, and depends on what their dream is. debbie - --- Leah Schenkenberg wrote: > justin has said this before.... > > The higher you get on love the longer it takes to > forget...and get out > of... > > The longer the dream goes on, the harder the fall > will seem when it has > gone... > > > > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 08:17:27 +0100 (MET) > bwurm@clickfish.com writes: > > > May I suggest that we have been anticipating too > much? You know, the > > longer you dream of greatness, the more > disappointed you are in the > > end?! > > > > Birgit > > (Anyone ever heard of a band (???) called > "International Metal > > Supply" and/or an album called "Opportunity > crosses the border?) > > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for > less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:47:42 -0800 (PST) From: Debbie Cushing Subject: Re: OV: listening to songs more than one time I totally agree with you, Dirk. There are very few songs that I absolutely fall in love with on first listen. It's sort of like watching a movie more than once...you usually find something new you didn't notice the first go 'round. Also, as far as those that are already writing this album off as a failure, I must remind you that we haven't even heard the whole album and are basically hearing what we are hearing completely out of context! For God's sake, it hasn't even hit the market yet and some here are already condemning the guys to the gallows! I say we need to be a little more patient and reserve final judgment 'til we've got the real live disc in our hot little hands and have listened to it in it's entirety on our stereo of choice. debbie - --- Arathas@pratchett-fanclub.de wrote: > Birgit wrote: > "I find it pretty alarming that most mails are about > "repeat listenings". > If we lot - who call ourselves fans - have to listen > a few times to like > the song, what about the big bad rest who couldn't > care less about even > listening once?" > > Well, Birgit - I never liked the Dels on first hear. > Never. And they're my > top favorite band ever ever ever!!!! When I hear a > song and like it on > first hear, I know that I will be bored hearing it > after 10 times. But > when I listen to a song and think it's pretty > boring, and then I like it > after I've listened to it more than three times - > that means that the song > will have a place in my heart forever. > > When I first listened to "What I think she sees", I > thought that was a > damn boring song. Then it grew on me - and now it's > one of my Dels > all-time-favorites. > > So, if I liked the album (or the first few songs I > know so far) on first > hear, that would have been a desaster. I'm the kind > of man who has to get > into a thing. It's like love: It grows and grows and > grows the deeper you > get into it..... > > Dirk > > PS: Now I agree: "I am an unbeliever" is one of the > best Del songs in the > last few years. It's SOOOOO damn pretty great!!! > Listening it the whole > day! :-) Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:27:42 -0600 From: Leah D Schenkenberg Subject: Re: Subject: OV: The fools! Retort! but they're still going for U2, who aren't spring chickens either.... And the new photos make them look so weathered rock star chic... ??? On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:50:20 -0000 "Jane Armstrong" writes: > Why would the 18-25 year olds go for oldies like Del Amitri when > they have > Travis - who are arguably Del Amitri for the next generation? It's > sad - > but that's the way things go.... > > Jane ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:05:17 EST From: SngWrite1@aol.com Subject: OV: Del Amitri evolves Texas-style? It seems to me that what the Dels are doing bears a bit of a resemblence to what their pals Texas did a few albums back. Texas was known as a rootsy rock band and then came out with an album with some new style sounds. And it actually seemed to increase their audience. Sure, I'm sure some fans were put off by the change, but new fans came on board. And look at the new album as another step in the group's evolution. Were fans of their first album sceptical of the "new" sound of Waking Hours? Maybe some were, but they picked up more along the way. Believe me, I'm not one to think they can do no wrong (the entire mix of SOSP for instance!). But I'll always respect them in trying to grow, and attempting to build on what they have. It's their band, and they've got to do what they think is right for them. So damn the torpedos boys, full steam ahead! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 07:59:53 +1000 From: Alessandro Campobassi Subject: OV: Does anyone remember? Hello all from a sunny Australia... Does any remember the really great feeling of anticipation of waiting until that first release date to get to the record shop to buy the album of your fav artist?? And then zooming home to play it through as an album from start to finish to unravel the songs as they played off each other from track 1 to the end??? What happened to those days?? OK - I'm as impatient as the rest to hear the new stuff - but sometimes I just can't help feeling that adding snippets or streaming songs on the net is kind of taking away that wonderful feeling?? Ok, ok - I know I don't HAVE to click on the link to listen to the tracks of course... but it's just the principle of it.... Sorry - just a big kid remembering the old times here :) About the new stuff...?? Well, I will save ALL judgement until I hear the whole CD, but I must say I'm quite excited about it all, and think the new stuff is actually pretty cool. JBYL reminds me of the funnky feel I got from listening to Just Like a Man years ago!! OK - later everyone, looking forward to the new CD and my first Dels gig in Southampton in May!!! WOOHOO!! Sandro ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:25:22 -0000 From: "Tony Barton" Subject: OV: New single My first posting after a long time reading other views - and I think 'Just Before You Leave' is sensational! It proves to me that the Del's real talent is to match a song's arrangement to Justin's (usually) excellent lyrics*, for a complete aural experience. I first got into them for the jangly guitars and simplicity - and hated 'Cry To Be Found' - but now I love it, plus Sleep Instead of Teardrops & other ballads. The organ on JBYL reminds me 'Why Can't We Live Together' by Timmy Thomas - an all time classic from 1973, so yes I am EXTREMELY old! If the 3 tracks I've been able to play are representative of the album I think we're in for a treat - & if we all buy both versions of the single maybe we'll get that in the charts too! Tony * Track 98 on 'Lousy with Love' excepted - what was all that Donald Duck & Mickey Mouse stuff???!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:59:16 -0800 From: Darren Holmquist Subject: OV: Administrivia Hello all, Several posts a day are not getting through to the list, because they've been sent from an email address that isn't subscribed to OV. (if you ARE emailing from the same address that you get OV on and your posts STILL aren't getting through, please let me know.) This means, that I have to cut and paste the posts manually; whenever I happen to open my email. So if everyone could please try and keep this in check, I'd be ever so grateful. It would also mean that there isn't a 6 hour wait for your post to show up! I'm enjoying the current topics on the new music. Just please remember to keep it civil. Despite what some people tell us all; opinions can't be wrong. Just different. As always, to unsubscribe from the regular version of OV, send an email to: oppositeview-request@smoe.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. to unsubscribe from the digest version of OV, send an email to: oppositeview-digest-request@smoe.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Darren Admin. Opposite View Mailing List http://home.bendcable.com/oppositeview ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 18:17:50 -0800 From: Darren Holmquist Subject: OV: Editorializing Personally, I've used the current steams of new Dels material as a mere apetizer. I'm not listening to them alot, on purpose. Until I can hear the whole album. I've been one of those who didn't love a new Dels album on first hearing, too. I think this has helped me in the long run, however. The songs were able to install themselves permanently. Kinda like a tumor. In my case, inoperable. :) I liked what Sandro said about not being able to rush home to listen to the record. In this world of everything being instant, drive-through, microwavable, superkingsized, you can hear music before it's released. You can hear it the moment you get into your car. And for some of us collectors, you can sometimes hear a record before it's released. Good or bad? I don't know. It's the way it is, though. I was able to hear McCartney's Flaming Pie before it was released. SOSP as well. And, many others. It hasn't changed how I feel about the music. Mainly, because when you hear it for the first time, is basically its day of release. But, I do prefer to hear it on CD, in a quiet room. Not over the internet. The songs posted are only an attempt to whet your appetites for the new album. To make you hungry for more. And, while it may turn some away, hopefully it works for others. I'd be curious though... was it a Band decision or a record company decision to make the streaming audio available? True, Sandro's point being that part of the mystique, the thrill of buying music, is being lost. I agree. As a kid, I used to buy my music after school, and the entire ride home on the bus was sheer torture. A delightful torture to be sure... but torture none the less. To sit there and stare at the album... so close, yet so far. While the new music we've heard hasn't exactly been music to my ears, it IS new Del Amitri material. And, another chapter in a hopefully long book. And, with that... I need to go look for more songs from the upcoming Patty Griffin release!!! ;-) Darren ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:40:29 +0100 From: Dirk.Wonhoefer@eberle-augsburg.de Subject: OV: The whole world is quiet Tony wrote: "Track 98 on 'Lousy with Love' excepted - what was all that Donald Duck & Mickey Mouse stuff???!!" Well, you should give the lyrics another listen, Tony. They're not what they seem to be. And they're definitely not about Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse.... try to go deeper into them - and you'll find something unexpected for such a song, I'll promise. Dirk ------------------------------ End of oppositeview-digest V4 #55 *********************************