From: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org (oppositeview-digest) To: oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Subject: oppositeview-digest V4 #49 Reply-To: oppositeview@smoe.org Sender: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oppositeview-digest Tuesday, February 26 2002 Volume 04 : Number 049 Today's Subjects: ----------------- OV: Re. Billy Bragg [Alex_Demidh@europe.mccann.com] Re: OV: Re: stations list/Dels N. Amer release ["Jen Woyan" ] OV: The Weakest Link ["Jane Armstrong" ] OV: Sounds interesting ["Jane Armstrong" ] Re: OV: Re: Re: stations list ["Jen Woyan" ] Re: OV: Re: LLC and US release [Debbie Cushing ] Re: OV: Re: Re: stations list ["Jane Armstrong" ] Re: OV: Re: LLC and US release ["Steve Nicholls" ] Re: OV: Re: Re: stations list ["Jen Woyan" ] Re: OV: The fools! [Debbie Cushing ] Re: OV: SYWBAC hobby kit [Debbie Cushing ] OV: The fools! Retort! [doug brown ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:48:25 +0000 From: Alex_Demidh@europe.mccann.com Subject: OV: Re. Billy Bragg Re. Billy Bragg. . . . I am a massive BB fan, and have been for years. The album Victim of Geography would be an ideal start. It is compilation of two albums, on one CD. It contains a nice mixture of the hard edge political stuff, and soppy love songs too. It's top. hope this helps, Alex "In the end it took me a dictionary, to find out the meaning of unrequited. . . . While she was giving herself for free, At a party to which I was never invited" Billy Bragg - The Saturday Boy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:02:42 -0600 From: "Jen Woyan" Subject: Re: OV: Re: stations list/Dels N. Amer release I'd be curious to see who it was in the station heirarchy who anwered that email request...poor form for any size station, in any country. Somehow I don't think it was the program or music director... In any event, anyone know when/where the single was/will be released to radio. Y'all say it's begun to be played on some stations... Because in that case, the poorly-raised individual might have a point - can't play it if you ain't got it... In any event - about what i posted last week - I haven't gone through all my email yet this morning, but I noticed a few replies. I did rough out an outline of To Do's and a simple budget over the weekend which I will have in a usable format by this evening. "Usable" meaning, ready for people to read and comment about. So, please send me a short post if you are #1-interested in reading this; #2-have comments/suggests of things you would want included/considered; #3-have a talent you'd like to offer as part of the effort. As an aside, I kept looking for ways to debunk the whole idea all weekend, but the more I hashed things out and talked to people (hypothetically) about it, the more it seemed to become a potentially do-able project. But again, perhaps y'all have questions I haven't asked yet, so please don't be shy. You can post of-list if you feel self-conscious. Have a good day. Cheers, Jen - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Hilary Gray" To: "Dels" Subject: OV: Re: stations list Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:17:24 -0000 I can't understand why the stations would react like this to email requests - most positively encourage listeners to request songs. Would they say that to someone if they rang up for a request? Interesting to see your response from TLR. That's my local station, and they do play the Dels. Perhaps I may follow up nearer the release date, they have an online request form at their website, and they do request shows during the week and at the weekend. It is a bit 'local radio for local people', so it's not going to set the Del world on fire if they do play the new single regularly, but it all helps! Hilary _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:27:07 EST From: Wcamden333@aol.com Subject: Re: OV: Re: stations list/Dels N. Amer release Jen, Count me in -- don't think I have any professional titles/contacts that you would be looking for, but add my name to the list and I will surely help out in any way I can! Amy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:23:56 -0500 From: "the Gardners" Subject: OV: Re: Re: stations list - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hilary Gray" Subject: OV: Re: stations list > I can't understand why the stations would react like this to email > requests - most positively encourage listeners to request songs. Would they > say that to someone if they rang up for a request? I'll be the first to say that I know nothing about this business side of releasing an album. Its interesting but overwhelming to read what all of you have been saying about alternatives to waiting for a label to sign them. I'm a bit surprised there has been so much negative response to the email requests; the stations then do NOT care what listeners want to hear, it seems. Okay then. Wonder what determines the songs they play then - oops, silly naive me, its probably the label who pays the radio stations the most money... Let me ask this question to you then, since some of you seem to know a lot about the business - does the band or their managers try to actively promote the band in the states or do they usually leave all that up to the label who is releasing the album here? Since as of now there is no stateside label would they consider hiring a stateside promoter to contact radio stations, contact potential labels, compose and send out press releases to newspapers, etc etc? TTFN Susan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:30:15 -0000 From: "Jane Armstrong" Subject: OV: The Weakest Link Anne Robinson asked a question today on the Weakest Link "Buhloone Mind State was the 1993 album for De La who?" to which the contestant answered "Mitri" Well I laughed anyway..... (Should have been De La Soul) Jane ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Visit my home page: http://www.delamitri.co.uk/~janea Del Amitri pages: http://www.delamitri.co.uk/~janea/Delpage.html Why not join the chat every Thursday at 9pm UK time: http://www.delamitri.co.uk/~janea/chat.html The Devlins discussion list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheDevlins ICQ No: 34643730 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:25:30 -0000 From: "Jane Armstrong" Subject: OV: Sounds interesting There's a new BBC Radio station starting up which sounds very interesting - let's hope it lives up to the hype. Could be a good place for the Dels. They describe it as "6 Music is a station for people who are passionate about pop and rock music. Expect a rich mix of contemporary and classic artists ranging from The Clash through to Sly & The Family Stone, via Beck, Bjork and Public Enemy. The network will also champion some of the best emerging music talent like The Strokes, Turin Brakes, Elbow and many others. " It's got some great presenters too including Phil Jupitas, Sean Hughes, Craig Charles, Suggs and Tom Robinson. http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/ Jane ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Visit my home page: http://www.delamitri.co.uk/~janea Del Amitri pages: http://www.delamitri.co.uk/~janea/Delpage.html Why not join the chat every Thursday at 9pm UK time: http://www.delamitri.co.uk/~janea/chat.html The Devlins discussion list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheDevlins ICQ No: 34643730 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:47:44 -0600 From: "Jen Woyan" Subject: Re: OV: Re: Re: stations list Sorry to say, your comment about cash is pretty much the norm for the States (not so much in the UK). And in a simple answer to your question, yes, the label hires the record plugger (at an average fee of $100K+ for 8 weeks) to get the single played ("spun") and added to the official playlist ("adds") in R&R, Billboard, Gavin & BDS-reporting stations - this is what gets the songs "in the charts". (Soundscan tracks sales and a little bit of radio as well) Other stations, retailers, talent buyers (concert promoters & talk show bookers), etc. look at these "official" numbers to see who's doing what each week. Funny thing, if a record label ships out a million cpies of, like Michael Jackson's new CD, to shops, it'll go into Soundscan that week as selling a million copies - the logic being that they are s'posedly really only shipping out to stores who have placed orders who wouldn't have done that unless they thought it would sell... And I know personally of radio stations that will "add" a record to their officially-reported playlist without ever having played the record once (officially, an "add" equals a minimum of 8 "spins" on a station during any reporting week). In many of these cases the record plugger made a donation to the station's promotional budget in return for the "add". That's one of the reasons in the States you really need to be on a major label (or major-label-owned indie) if you want any commerical consideration at all for a CD. There is a series of articles on Salon.com by writer Eric Boehlert that gives much more insight into these dealings than I could go into here... Radio's big bully - A complete guide to Salon's reporting on Clear Channel, the most powerful -- and some would say pernicious -- force in the music industry. http://www.salon.com/ent/clear_channel/index.html Pay for play - Why does radio suck? Because most stations play only the songs the record companies pay them to. And things are going to get worse. http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2001/03/14/payola/index.html Why the record industry is killing the single http://www.salon.com/ent/music/feature/2001/12/19/music_industry_sidebar/index.html Music industry in the pits! http://www.salon.com/ent/music/feature/2001/12/19/music_industry/ Back to the salt mines... Cheers, Jen - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "the Gardners" Reply-To: "the Gardners" To: "Hilary Gray" , "Dels" Subject: OV: Re: Re: stations list Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:23:56 -0500 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hilary Gray" Subject: OV: Re: stations list > I can't understand why the stations would react like this to email > requests - most positively encourage listeners to request songs. Would they > say that to someone if they rang up for a request? I'll be the first to say that I know nothing about this business side of releasing an album. Its interesting but overwhelming to read what all of you have been saying about alternatives to waiting for a label to sign them. I'm a bit surprised there has been so much negative response to the email requests; the stations then do NOT care what listeners want to hear, it seems. Okay then. Wonder what determines the songs they play then - oops, silly naive me, its probably the label who pays the radio stations the most money... Let me ask this question to you then, since some of you seem to know a lot about the business - does the band or their managers try to actively promote the band in the states or do they usually leave all that up to the label who is releasing the album here? Since as of now there is no stateside label would they consider hiring a stateside promoter to contact radio stations, contact potential labels, compose and send out press releases to newspapers, etc etc? TTFN Susan _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:06:10 -0800 (PST) From: Debbie Cushing Subject: Re: OV: Re: LLC and US release Hello again! I can vouch for the quality of this CD. It is a completely professional product, so this may be a very viable option for a U.S. label for our Dels. I'm going to also write to an acquaintance of mine, who happens to be a fellow fan and ex-labelmate of the Dels (his former band was on A&M). Maybe he has some thoughts or suggestions and maybe even a solution for this dilemma. Certainly, between all the efforts being put forth by this list we should be able to sort something out for the guys. have a great week, debbie - --- Guy-Michael Grande wrote: > Fellow OVers, > Though I've hardly ever posted, I've been reading > this thread about the U.S. > release with great interest (as we all have), and as > for your idea of forming > an LLC, I can humbly offer this: my indie label, > Route Five Records, which is > already an LLC here in the U.S. While we admittedly > don't have the budget for > the initial outlay (the estimated $315 apiece you > mentioned), we do have the > heart and the business setup (including the > ever-important bar codes) and a > small media machine that would definitely work to > make this record happen here > in the U.S. > Like everyone else on the list, I am first a dels > fan... and like Dave Sills, > I am an artist as well. Route Five was founded to > put out my records and > eventually records from other artists I admire and > believe in, and right now, > there is no band who fits that bill like del Amitri > does. At the risk of > sounding ridiculous, feel free to consider this > offer; I'd be honored to lend > our humble label to this most worthy cause (and show > the world what true fans > of good music can do to make sure that music gets > heard). > Sincerely, > Guy-Michael Grande > Route Five Records > www.cdbaby.com/guymichael > www.guy-michael.com Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:55:23 -0000 From: "Jane Armstrong" Subject: Re: OV: Re: Re: stations list > Radio's big bully - A complete guide to Salon's reporting on Clear Channel, > the most powerful -- and some would say pernicious -- force in the music > industry. > http://www.salon.com/ent/clear_channel/index.html Up until a week ago I'd never heard of Clear Channel. But they are promoting the Del Amitri tour in the UK. Jane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:14:15 -0000 From: "Steve Nicholls" Subject: Re: OV: Re: LLC and US release I have just joined the mailing list for Del Amitri and my inbox has just been flooded with emails about Del Amitri - all I want is a regular newsletter!! Could you let me know how I get of the email chain and on to the mailing list Steve - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debbie Cushing" To: "Guy-Michael Grande" ; Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 7:06 PM Subject: Re: OV: Re: LLC and US release > Hello again! > > I can vouch for the quality of this CD. It is a > completely professional product, so this may be a very > viable option for a U.S. label for our Dels. > > I'm going to also write to an acquaintance of mine, > who happens to be a fellow fan and ex-labelmate of the > Dels (his former band was on A&M). Maybe he has some > thoughts or suggestions and maybe even a solution for > this dilemma. > > Certainly, between all the efforts being put forth by > this list we should be able to sort something out for > the guys. > > have a great week, > debbie > > --- Guy-Michael Grande wrote: > > Fellow OVers, > > Though I've hardly ever posted, I've been reading > > this thread about the U.S. > > release with great interest (as we all have), and as > > for your idea of forming > > an LLC, I can humbly offer this: my indie label, > > Route Five Records, which is > > already an LLC here in the U.S. While we admittedly > > don't have the budget for > > the initial outlay (the estimated $315 apiece you > > mentioned), we do have the > > heart and the business setup (including the > > ever-important bar codes) and a > > small media machine that would definitely work to > > make this record happen here > > in the U.S. > > Like everyone else on the list, I am first a dels > > fan... and like Dave Sills, > > I am an artist as well. Route Five was founded to > > put out my records and > > eventually records from other artists I admire and > > believe in, and right now, > > there is no band who fits that bill like del Amitri > > does. At the risk of > > sounding ridiculous, feel free to consider this > > offer; I'd be honored to lend > > our humble label to this most worthy cause (and show > > the world what true fans > > of good music can do to make sure that music gets > > heard). > > Sincerely, > > Guy-Michael Grande > > Route Five Records > > www.cdbaby.com/guymichael > > www.guy-michael.com > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:45:24 -0600 From: "Jen Woyan" Subject: Re: OV: Re: Re: stations list 'K...speaking of Satan....wow. Where did you see/hear that reference, 'cuz according to the Clear Channel UK website, (http://www.cc-int.net/clear.asp), so far their only (2) UK stations are Jazz FM and Ministry of Sound DAB. Are they the tour sponsor or the promoter (taking the place of the local Mean Fiddler, etc. guy)? But in the States, Clear Channel/SFX (http://www.sfx.com and http://www.clearchannel.com) is the country's largest media promoter - radio, outdoor ads, concert venues, concert tours - all of it. No other concert/tour promoter or radio station syndicate comes even close to touching them - which is kinda why the US govt. has been investigating them for anti-trust violations for the past 3+ years... But, U2 used them for their tour from what I've read \, the conglomerate is virtually impossible to ignore as a market-force. Very, very interesting...thanks for the info, though I'm not sure what that means. Hmmm... Cheers, Jen - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Jane Armstrong" To: "Jen Woyan" , , , Subject: Re: OV: Re: Re: stations list Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:55:23 -0000 > Radio's big bully - A complete guide to Salon's reporting on Clear Channel, > the most powerful -- and some would say pernicious -- force in the music > industry. > http://www.salon.com/ent/clear_channel/index.html Up until a week ago I'd never heard of Clear Channel. But they are promoting the Del Amitri tour in the UK. Jane _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:02:08 -0600 From: "Jen Woyan" Subject: Re: OV: Re: Re: stations list 'K...speaking of Satan....wow. Where did you see/hear that reference, 'cuz according to the Clear Channel UK website, (http://www.cc-int.net/clear.asp), so far their only (2) UK stations are Jazz FM and Ministry of Sound DAB. Are they the tour sponsor or the promoter (taking the place of the local Mean Fiddler, etc. guy)? But in the States, Clear Channel/SFX (http://www.sfx.com and http://www.clearchannel.com) is the country's largest media promoter - radio, outdoor ads, concert venues, concert tours - all of it. No other concert/tour promoter or radio station syndicate comes even close to touching them - which is kinda why the US govt. has been investigating them for anti-trust violations for the past 3+ years... But, U2 used them for their tour from what I've read \, the conglomerate is virtually impossible to ignore as a market-force. Very, very interesting...thanks for the info, though I'm not sure what that means. Hmmm... Cheers, Jen - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Jane Armstrong" To: "Jen Woyan" , , , Subject: Re: OV: Re: Re: stations list Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:55:23 -0000 > Radio's big bully - A complete guide to Salon's reporting on Clear Channel, > the most powerful -- and some would say pernicious -- force in the music > industry. > http://www.salon.com/ent/clear_channel/index.html Up until a week ago I'd never heard of Clear Channel. But they are promoting the Del Amitri tour in the UK. Jane _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:28:36 -0800 (PST) From: Debbie Cushing Subject: Re: OV: The fools! Well, at least they were polite about it. Their loss, really, huh? :-) debbie - --- SngWrite1@aol.com wrote: > "Thanks for the tip. We're not seeking to sign > anyone right now, but > we'll keep Del Amitri in mind." - ATO Records > response to my email about Del > Amitri. Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:03:53 -0800 (PST) From: Debbie Cushing Subject: Re: OV: SYWBAC hobby kit Sleep Instead of Teardrops would be a "must have" in my book. I also really like "Before The Evening Steals The Afternoon" also. I love the title of your "hobby kit" ;-) debbie - --- Leah D Schenkenberg wrote: > I'm making a mix tape for a friend who's never heard > a lick of Del Amitri > save "always the last to know" and "Roll to me". > It's called the "so you > wanna be a cynic..." hobby kit. So far included > are: > > you're gone > surface of the moon > spit in the rain > what I Think she sees > might as well be you > behind the fool > downfall > whiskey remorse > I won't take the blame > this side of the morning > long way down > evidence > > we're also going to include a few social > commentaries...like don't come > home too soon, food for songs, and nothing ever > happens. > > Any "must includes" that I'm missing? > > Dont' say First rule of love...it may qualify, but > it's taken a long time > to grow on me, and so I'm not going to include that > quite yet. > > Leah > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for > less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:10:15 -0800 (PST) From: doug brown Subject: OV: The fools! Retort! 1) Why would a small record label want to take on a band with almost no recognition in the US, no fan base to speak of, whose last album and singles (a few years ago even) were complete flops, without even hearing this one? Which BTW if it's anything like the first single will be an even bigger flop? Especially when there are hundreds of unsigned formula bands that could conceivably have a huge hit and sell a lot of Pepsi within even a few months. 2) I don't think you people have any idea how radio stations work. In the US they are all owned by three major companies that all have connections (as in parent companies) to the music labels. The radio stations decide on a format to follow based on demographics to generate the most advertising income. They then have a station music programmer (lubed from above) who tells the djs something like 75%-100% of the songs that they will play. In short radio stations are more blatantly than ever shills for music labels. So why would they want to get hundreds of emails about some band that doesn't even have a US label and that they have absolutely no intention of ever supporting? Answer is, they don't. Love, Doug Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of oppositeview-digest V4 #49 *********************************