From: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org (oppositeview-digest) To: oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Subject: oppositeview-digest V4 #46 Reply-To: oppositeview@smoe.org Sender: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oppositeview-digest Saturday, February 23 2002 Volume 04 : Number 046 Today's Subjects: ----------------- OV: Tribute album cover [=?iso-8859-1?q?Michael?= ] OV: Justin speaks, and doesn't talk shite [SngWrite1@aol.com] OV: Re: oppositeview-digest V4 #45 [Lance_Schart@ymcachgo.org] OV: trouble at home too [SngWrite1@aol.com] OV: Re: Justin speaks, and doesn't talk shite ["Hilary Gray" ] OV: No US Release [SngWrite1@aol.com] Re: OV: No US Release ["Jen Woyan" ] OV: The new song ["Chris Fleming" ] Re: OV: No US Release ["Hilary Gray" ] Re: OV: No US Release ["Jen Woyan" ] Re: OV: No US Release [Wcamden333@aol.com] OV: But then do we become Satan? [SngWrite1@aol.com] Re: OV: But then do we become Satan? ["Jen Woyan" ] Re: OV: No US Release ["Jane Armstrong" ] Re: OV: Seems to be a lull [Debbie Cushing ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:06:52 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael?= Subject: OV: Tribute album cover Call me a pedantic pain in the ass but are the errors in the back cover artwork of the tribute album going to be fixed so I can download it again? Also wondering where Justin gets his king-size shoes custom made... because after reading some of the responses to the fan questions on the UK site he has shown he is nothing but a f**king self-absorbed clown. Lucky he can write bloody good lyrics. Tell it like it is, Michael:) http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - - Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:38:40 EST From: SngWrite1@aol.com Subject: OV: Justin speaks, and doesn't talk shite After finding out about their plight in the US, I sent Justin a list of labels they might find as a good home over here. Here was his reply: "Thanks for the lable suggestions,Dave. We currently own the rights to this LP for North America with the proviso that any labe to which we sign t having to pay 25% of the recording costs and a small percentage kickback.Seeing as our future North America albums are up for grabs it's not that bad a deal for any label that might be interested.Our manager will be checking out these labels in due course...cheers.JC" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:09:36 -0600 From: Lance_Schart@ymcachgo.org Subject: OV: Re: oppositeview-digest V4 #45 Beginning March 1st, would you please direct the digest version of the Dels' mailing to my Yahoo! account? Thank you. Lance A. Schart, Evanston, IL, USA MARCH 1st = ZooTV8@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:17:40 EST From: SngWrite1@aol.com Subject: OV: trouble at home too Seems life at Mercury UK isn't any great shakes either (could've talked to Lloyd Cole about that!): "We tried to talk Mercury into releasing an EP before Christmas but they couldn't be bothered even thinking about it.JC" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:16:31 -0000 From: "Hilary Gray" Subject: OV: Re: Justin speaks, and doesn't talk shite Hi, Thanks for posting this Dave. While this must be incredibly frustrating in the short term, it does appear to be very positive for the long term in that he is talking about future albums in the plural! Hilary - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: 22 February 2002 13:38 Subject: OV: Justin speaks, and doesn't talk shite "Seeing as our future North America albums are up for grabs it's not that bad a deal for any label that might be interested.Our manager will be checking out these labels in due course...cheers.JC" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:14:08 -0800 From: darren@bendcable.com Subject: OV: REALLY no U.S. release Well, that does it. I'm gonna have to buy copies of the album and hand deliver them to the stations here. And, I WILL. Del Amitri WILL get played here. Darren ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:01:32 -0000 From: "Jane Armstrong" Subject: OV: Re: trouble at home too > "We tried to talk Mercury into releasing an EP before Christmas but they > couldn't be bothered even thinking about it.JC" This was in response to my question re Everybody Knows That It's You. He does sound particularly pissed off with the whole business doesn't he! When we met Iain, Kris and Mark last January they were so optimistic and up beat. Off to finish recording - positive it would be out before the Summer.... It was going to be the record to make everyone sit up and listen. The radio stations wouldn't be able to ignore them and their name would be on everyone's lips...... And yes, there was definitely going to be a US release. What a difference a year makes. :-((( They need to go independent.... Jane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:06:32 EST From: SngWrite1@aol.com Subject: OV: No US Release And I will go back on what I said earlier, because at the time I thought they still had a record company here. So if it does ever come out in the US, I WILL buy another copy even if it's the same as the UK release. Dave PS - Maybe we should find out how much the recording budget was... if Mercury only wants 25% of that... OV could become the new Del Amitri label in the US! From what people have said, it sounds like kind of a big budget record though... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:30:21 -0600 From: "Jen Woyan" Subject: Re: OV: No US Release Yeah, but in my mind, the average OV'er seems to be as well-versed/capable as anyone I've ever met in the music biz...and no, I do not consider that an overstatement. Let's say the recording costs were $250,000.00, a quarter of that is $62,500.00 and then perhaps the "kickback" can be worked into a percentage of the gross (or net) profits payable later on at a slightly higher percentage. Perhaps the band themselves would be partners in the venture, thus cuting the initial needed outlay even further. But even if it were just us, $62,500.00 divided equally by an estimated 200 OV'ers is about $315.00 per member initial investment.... (An as in any business venture, people can buy at whatever level/percentage they feel comfortable at, etc. We could also ask if/why the UK label hasn't picked up at least half of the recording costs already, etc. - there are a few specifics to consider...) What is the vibe out there that it could be worth it to perhaps set up a short-term LLC (i.e., OppositeView Partners, LLC), come up with the initial costs, and then license the distribution & rights to a smaller US label... It would certainly be a huge project and perhaps initially a little complicated, but believe me, it IS doable... And think what a story it'd make in the industry as a whole - the fans putting their money where their mouths are to truly support their favorite artist... David vs. Goliath in a way... We have quite a few very talented people in many different fields on this list - writers, web designers, marketing people, advertising people, etc. - I guess all I'm asking is, why not? Have a great weekend, all - I'm stepping off my soapbox now... Just my 2-cents... Luv ya & cheers, Jen in Chicago - ----Original Message Follows---- From: SngWrite1@aol.com To: oppositeview@smoe.org Subject: OV: No US Release Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:06:32 EST And I will go back on what I said earlier, because at the time I thought they still had a record company here. So if it does ever come out in the US, I WILL buy another copy even if it's the same as the UK release. Dave PS - Maybe we should find out how much the recording budget was... if Mercury only wants 25% of that... OV could become the new Del Amitri label in the US! From what people have said, it sounds like kind of a big budget record though... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:48:56 -0000 From: "Chris Fleming" Subject: OV: The new song Just dropping a quick note to say that I have finally heard the new song and I have seen the video. As I am a sad Del fan every one who dares to enter my home then has to listen and watch the new video and give their opinions (very sad I know, but all in the Del prom cause). So here is snippets of my friends initial views of the new song "Nice video who are the band?" "Sounds like a b side" "Defiantly an album track" "Hmmmm" My personal view is along the cry to be before you leave view. On first hearing it was a I thought it was very similar to cry to be found, and then I watched it again and again, and I still think it is very cry to be foundish. When CTBF found came out I was very surprised and I didn't quite like it, I told Andy this and he said "I quite like it I am in it a lot!!!". I feel this may be his view again. Overall the song has grown on me and who needs friends like these anyway ChrisF http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HavenRLFC/ http://mysite.freeserve.com/havenrlfc/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:44:01 -0000 From: "Hilary Gray" Subject: Re: OV: No US Release While I sit here on a Friday night with a drink and dreaming about OV revolutionising the music industry (and if anyone took it on you can count me in!) please could you explain what a 'kickback' is? Cheers, Hilary - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jen Woyan" To: ; Sent: 22 February 2002 20:30 Subject: Re: OV: No US Release What is the vibe out there that it could be worth it to perhaps set up a short-term LLC (i.e., OppositeView Partners, LLC), come up with the initial costs, and then license the distribution & rights to a smaller US label... It would certainly be a huge project and perhaps initially a little complicated, but believe me, it IS doable... And think what a story it'd make in the industry as a whole - the fans putting their money where their mouths are to truly support their favorite artist... David vs. Goliath in a way... We have quite a few very talented people in many different fields on this list - writers, web designers, marketing people, advertising people, etc. - I guess all I'm asking is, why not? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:09:40 -0600 From: "Jen Woyan" Subject: Re: OV: No US Release In addition to recouping (being reimbursed) for their expense outlay for the hard costs of the recording - studio time, producer fees, etc. - the label (heretofore to be referred to as "Satan") wants a little something extra for their "trouble" - perhaps to defray the perceived loss they may have taken on the artist's contract as a whole over time. They essentially want an extra fee to waive their right to enforce the band's existing contract - a buy-out. In some cases this can be an actual dollar-to-dollar buy-out of the remaining value of the contract, but we're gonna hope that's not what Satan's looking for. Completely envying Hils and her evening cocktail as it's only 3:00pm here.... Cheers (and yes, I'll really go away now...), Jen in Chicago - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Hilary Gray" To: Subject: Re: OV: No US Release Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:44:01 -0000 While I sit here on a Friday night with a drink and dreaming about OV revolutionising the music industry (and if anyone took it on you can count me in!) please could you explain what a 'kickback' is? Cheers, Hilary - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jen Woyan" To: ; Sent: 22 February 2002 20:30 Subject: Re: OV: No US Release What is the vibe out there that it could be worth it to perhaps set up a short-term LLC (i.e., OppositeView Partners, LLC), come up with the initial costs, and then license the distribution & rights to a smaller US label... It would certainly be a huge project and perhaps initially a little complicated, but believe me, it IS doable... And think what a story it'd make in the industry as a whole - the fans putting their money where their mouths are to truly support their favorite artist... David vs. Goliath in a way... We have quite a few very talented people in many different fields on this list - writers, web designers, marketing people, advertising people, etc. - I guess all I'm asking is, why not? _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:11:25 EST From: Wcamden333@aol.com Subject: Re: OV: No US Release In a message dated 02/22/2002 3:35:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, jenwoyan@hotmail.com writes: << But even if it were just us, $62,500.00 divided equally by an estimated 200 OV'ers is about $315.00 per member initial investment.... >> Just tell me who to make the check out to.... I agree, the publicity from something like this would certainly be worth more than what their promoters seem to have come up with so far! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:23:12 EST From: SngWrite1@aol.com Subject: OV: But then do we become Satan? In a message dated 02/22/2002 3:35:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, jenwoyan@hotmail.com writes: << But even if it were just us, $62,500.00 divided equally by an estimated 200 OV'ers is about $315.00 per member initial investment.... >> Well, for me to even come up with that much money you all are going to have to buy a lot more copies of my CD!!! But seriously though, I think it's just crazy enough to work. Can we find out what the actual budget was? Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:01:28 -0600 From: "Jen Woyan" Subject: Re: OV: But then do we become Satan? Someone COULD ask Justin or Iain, but they either may not have processed the specifics of the contract or wouldn't want to say to outsiders... and I can't say I'd blame them, actually. So, perhaps we won't know exactly, but if we know WHERE they recorded it, we'd be able to get their rates and estimate of the amount of time/was the time on a blackout rate or flat hourly, etc. (I can't remember exactly where they were over the 2+ years they were working on the CD, but one of us must have better email records than I do of OV posts/stalking records). In any event, we could take reasonable estimates of studio and materials costs, producers costs (which are usually based on a fee plus percentage points anyway with an advance paid up front), and the costs of the musicians' time and housing during the recording (am I forgetting anything anyone?). If we think it's viable enough, we can have one or 2 entertainment attorneys sniff around for what the additional buyout could be. Okay, so if we're even remotely playing around with this thought in our heads we'll also need to consider estimated legal fees (both to set-up the LLC as well as negotiate the buy-out and re-licensing of the new contract/distribution), logistics and cost of the administration of the LLC (who does the books, makes the decisions, follows-up on the paperwork, and how will they be compensated, etc.), where the LLC will be established (UK or US or legally some sort of combined way)... And again I'll ask, if the boys own their own masters (or will own), what is/will Mercury (UK) be paying for the use of those masters? What percentage of the recording/producer's fees are/will they be responsible for? We can always calculate on a 25% of 100% of recording costs buy-out, but would that be accurate? Again, asking a few questions of legal experts would probably be helpful here. Hashing out a simple business outline or even coming up with the investment funds wouldn't be the hard parts. The hard part (at least how I see it) would be for whomever wants to be involved in the project to do their homework, come to an agreement, and present a viable proposal to the band AND JPR. Of course, they could do a few different things - #1-say no; #2-say yes; #3-say yes, but then shop OUR proposal to other investors, thus cutting us out; #4-they could completely ignore us.... I probably won't be online this weekend (some of you are probably thankful for that), but I'll be doing some thinking & figuring and I guess what I'm asking is for any & all input from all of you out there on this idea. Keep in mind the David Gray model (and his US distibution label is ATO Records, which is Dave Matthew's self-owned label) - it CAN be done. IS it worth it enough to enough of us to even be considering this? The more I think about it, the more I gotta ask, why not? Cheers, Jen in Chicago - ----Original Message Follows---- From: SngWrite1@aol.com To: oppositeview@smoe.org Subject: OV: But then do we become Satan? Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:23:12 EST In a message dated 02/22/2002 3:35:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, jenwoyan@hotmail.com writes: << But even if it were just us, $62,500.00 divided equally by an estimated 200 OV'ers is about $315.00 per member initial investment.... >> Well, for me to even come up with that much money you all are going to have to buy a lot more copies of my CD!!! But seriously though, I think it's just crazy enough to work. Can we find out what the actual budget was? Dave _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:11:16 -0000 From: "Jane Armstrong" Subject: Re: OV: No US Release >the label > (heretofore to be referred to as "Satan") wants a little something extra for > their "trouble" - perhaps to defray the perceived loss they may have taken > on the artist's contract as a whole over time. Yeah well - if they'd played ball and released the album a year ago, or even enabled the band to record it earlier, those "losses" would have been a lot less.... The longer they've stayed out of the public eye, the more people have forgotten them. Justin's comment about wanting to release an EP has made me really mad and very sad. It looks to me like Mercury actively WANT them to fail. Then they can drop them and concentrate of the boy bands etc. No wonder Justin's so depressed and annoyed with everything. Well they can have my $315. And whatever it takes. It makes me even more keen for the album to do well - just so they can stick their fingers up at Satan. Jane ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 00:26:44 -0800 (PST) From: Debbie Cushing Subject: Re: OV: Seems to be a lull No thanks on the chamber pot, Birgit. ;-) I also was checking out Dave's CD. It's definately my next purchase...probably this week. Oh, and actually, I didn't go away for the weekend. I actually got to come home. I had to work in Houston this week. UGH! The co-workers are great, but the highways and lack of signage, not to mention the RUDE drivers, really sucks. Not to mention the humidity...yuck! Have a good weekend everyone, debbie, who's so glad to be home - --- bwurm@clickfish.com wrote: > > ZZZZZZZZZZZZ, need something to break the silence > here. Did everyone go away > > for the weekend already? > > Dave > > What else do you want? Thought you were busy > supplying your new CD and everybody else is probably > busy checking it out ;-). > > I for my part started a bit of early spring cleaning > (once in a lifetime) and now I'm sitting here > staring at box after box of childhood mementos and > older stuff. Any one interested in an old chamber > pot? > > Birgit > > www.clickfish.com - der menschliche Internet-Guide. > Ein Portal f|r alle, die > kompetente Hilfe und Beratung im Internet suchen. > Mehr als 300 qualifizierte > und hilfsbereite Fachleute filtern weltweit als > Clickfish-Guides relevante > Links, bieten News, Informationen, Foren, Chats und > sind als persvnliche > Ansprechpartner der schnellste und einfachste Weg, > sich im Internet rund um > ein Thema zu informieren. Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of oppositeview-digest V4 #46 *********************************