From: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org (oppositeview-digest) To: oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Subject: oppositeview-digest V2 #137 Reply-To: oppositeview@smoe.org Sender: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oppositeview-digest Thursday, October 19 2000 Volume 02 : Number 137 Today's Subjects: ----------------- OV: Re: Radiohead ["Jane Armstrong" ] Re: OV: CDs you're listening to ["Jane Armstrong" ] Re: OV: CDs you're listening to [Aleksandr Yap ] Re: OV: CDs you're listening to ["Jane Armstrong" ] OV: Re: UNiversity Challenged ["Jen Woyan" ] OV: Some more "enlightenment" about Universal... ["Jen Woyan" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:20:22 +0100 From: "Jane Armstrong" Subject: OV: Re: Radiohead > Iain Gray wrote: - championing the covering of Roll Away the Stone as a b-side please > Mr. Currie, complete with Kevin McDermott doing "sha la la la push push!" Oh yes please! I loved that song as a 15 year old and loved the Dels cover - especially Iain's falsetto "girlie" bit! Jane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:26:01 +0100 From: "Jane Armstrong" Subject: Re: OV: CDs you're listening to > Tish p'shaw. I got the import Hatful with the Abby Road CD at Virgin here in > Vancouver and the smegger cost me - take a deep breath - $50!! That's a lot of > money, no matter WHO it is! Kristy and anyone else on the list Don't EVER do that again!!! If you want a UK only release there are loads of us who'd be willing to buy you a copy and send it on over at a far cheaper price than you pay for import CD's. In fact a lot of us have been going around and buying up stock of the rarer CD's like Abbey Road and Lousy with Love (especially if it's been on offer) so we can just do that. Jane (who must be the only person on this list never to have *knowingly* heard any Matchbox 20) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Join us for our weekly chat - 9pm GMT Thursdays (now with voice) on http://www.delamitri.co.uk~janea/chat.html Please note my new URL: http://homepages.tesco.net/~jane.armstrong Del Amitri Pages: http:///homepages.tesco.net/~jane.armstrong/Delpage.html Join The Devlins Mailing List: http://www.egroups.co.uk/subscribe/TheDevlins ICQ # 34643730 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:22:52 +1100 (EST) From: Aleksandr Yap Subject: Re: OV: CDs you're listening to i have to agree $50 is a huge amount in anyones currency... (especially compared to the Australian Peso right now...grrr) so someone please tell me what is this Abbey Road CD that Jane mentions... AL in Aus - - it's brilliant being depressed - you can behave as badly as you like. - Rob (John Cusack) High Fidelity On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Jane Armstrong wrote: > > Tish p'shaw. I got the import Hatful with the Abby Road CD at Virgin here > in > > Vancouver and the smegger cost me - take a deep breath - $50!! That's a > lot of > > money, no matter WHO it is! > > Kristy and anyone else on the list > > Don't EVER do that again!!! If you want a UK only release there are loads > of us who'd be willing to buy you a copy and send it on over at a far > cheaper price than you pay for import CD's. In fact a lot of us have been > going around and buying up stock of the rarer CD's like Abbey Road and Lousy > with Love (especially if it's been on offer) so we can just do that. > > Jane > (who must be the only person on this list never to have *knowingly* heard > any Matchbox 20) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Join us for our weekly chat - 9pm GMT Thursdays (now with voice) on > http://www.delamitri.co.uk~janea/chat.html > Please note my new URL: http://homepages.tesco.net/~jane.armstrong > Del Amitri Pages: http:///homepages.tesco.net/~jane.armstrong/Delpage.html > Join The Devlins Mailing List: http://www.egroups.co.uk/subscribe/TheDevlins > ICQ # 34643730 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:29:41 -0400 (EDT) From: owner-oppositeview@smoe.org Subject: OV: CD's for less Debbie said: "Another good idea is MrSwap.com. You can list those "bad investment" CDs you thought you'd wasted your money one to swap for something else you want to try. And if your new CD doesn't suit you, you can list it to swap for something else." Hello all, I've come out of lurk mode because I can commiserate with everyone (Gina) about the "new CD or gas" dilemma. A couple of months ago, another OV'er mentioned a used cd web site that I am now COMPLETELY addicted to - secondspin.com (thank you Jason!). They have almost everything there and if I can't find what I'm looking for there, I check half.com. I love them both. I had been looking for a specific Sting song (Jane - I found it.) and it turned out to be on a British CD single. I finally found it on half.com for $3.50 (snatched that sucker up faster than you could blink!!). I checked on CDNow.com and the actual price of this CD SINGLE is $15.99! And I also got my Rick Springfield CD, The Encore Collection (stop laughing) for $4.00 on SecondSpin.com. As for what's in my CD player: Del Amitri - The B-side Collection 1, 2 and 3 (Big Love to Sandro!) Barry White - All-time Greatest Hits 3Doors Down - The Better Life Cocteau Twins - Heaven or Las Vegas Les Nubians - Princesses Nubiennes (French Acid Jazz - Highly recommend it) George Michael - Songs from the Last Century Marvin Gaye - The Final Concert Owsley - Owsley (Phil, are you still on their list?) Later, Dani ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:42:47 EDT From: Shevale@aol.com Subject: OV: Re: radio stations and current listening Once again, I'll delurk to add my two penneth: most American commercial radio stations suck - they play the same forty or so songs, virtually never play anything that hasn't been released as a single, and afford their djs no discretion re: what is played. I think it's safe to say that the stations aim to please the largest demographic, which IMO consists of the lemmings who cannot help but flock to the sounds others have deemed preferable. (sorry about that inapt analogy or mixed metaphor or whatever). Like anything else, humans can be programmed to listen to (and believe they like) just about any music: if you hear it often enough, you'll hum along. (For Exhibit A, I offer myself: Jennifer Lopez's song is lodged somewhere in my brain as a result of this musical osmosis.) Anyway, here, in New York City, I listen to a college/public radio station, WFUV (90.7 fm), that also streams live on the internet (wfuv.org); on Sunday nights from 8 pm to about 2:30 am, I listen to Vin Scelsa's Idiot's Delight (102.7 fm); this show is an old-fashioned free form commercial radio show: Vin plays lots of new and old, popular and obscure music from just about any genre you can name. I also listen to Vin's Internet show, Live@Lunch (www.artistent.com), which streams live on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays from noon to 3 pm EST. Live@Lunch is freer than Idiot's Delight because Vin has no restraints (and no commercials) whatsoever on the Internet. I'll also note for all you Del lovers that both wfuv and Vin play del Amitri regularly. artists I've been listening to a lot lately: Travis Merrie Amsterburg The Mavericks The Floating Men Todd Rundgren and Dels SOSP I've also really enjoyed whatever I've heard from Emmylou Harris's new cd Red Dirt Girl. Now, I'm taking my toys and going home. Sherry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:19:02 +0100 From: Paul Houston Subject: Re: OV: CDs your listening to The CD's and tapes filling the air of my abode are the glorious sounds of...... Moby - the free CD with last weeks Sunday Observer Ryan (That's Ryan, not Bryan) Adams- Heartbreaker Teenage Fanclub- Songs from NB & Grand Prix Mixed Del B-sides compilation Little Feat Compilation Methods of Mayhem At 11:26 am +0100 18/10/00, Jane Armstrong wrote: >(who must be the only person on this list never to have *knowingly* heard >any Matchbox 20) You're not missing much : ) cheers ph ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:23:04 GMT From: "NOEL TYLLA" Subject: [none] Hey Darren! I am impressed with Phil's current selection in his cd player! Right up my alley..especially Marvelous Three and Queens of the Stone Age. (not to mention Butch from m3 is beautiful!) Right now on top of my cd player (it only plays one at a time) are L7-not sure of which one Spacehog "The Chinese album" Marvelous Three-their first album Sex Pistols-Live Brother-Live Local H "Pack up the cats" Back to lurking and sewing on my costume for Halloween. Off to New Orleans! Noel Tylla (N.T.) Plane ticket in hand-anxiously awaiting a date for a Del amitri concert. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:09:05 +0100 From: "Jane Armstrong" Subject: Re: OV: CDs you're listening to > so someone please tell me what is this Abbey Road CD that Jane mentions... > > AL in Aus > Al Just a few weeks after Hatful of Rain was released they released a special version of Hatful of Rain with an additional CD recorded live at the famous Abbey Road studios in front of a specially invited audience. They packaged the two together in a cardboard box and charged an extra fiver or whatever for this special edition. A complete rip-off to get more people buying Hatful of Rain - but really the casual listener was unlikely to buy this when they could get the normal HoR for less - so it was only the real fans who want everything who were ripped off in this manner. There are still one or two to be found in the shops, but if you wanted a copy, somewhere like www.netsounds.com would be your best bet. I've passed on my last spare copy alas (thought I had another one - oh well ). Jane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:18:37 -0500 From: "Jen Woyan" Subject: OV: Re: UNiversity Challenged He was probably thinking of the cool new curio someone dropped off at his office for him to play ith...( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=000789045433548&rtmo=kNxxeLxp&atmo= 99999999&pg=/et/00/10/18/npax18.html) ..I don't know 'bout y'all, but if a big, heavy, wooden box were to be mysteriously delivered to my office, I'd #1 call security ASAP...or #2 open the bloody thing!!! Back to lurker mode....'cept here are MY CD's (hope I'm not too late with this...) Radiohead - The Bends Roy Hargrove - Habana David Gray - White Ladder (there's also an outtakes CD just released in the UK...) Sheryl Crow - Globe Sessions UNCUT mag's September compilation CD (another great UK music 'zine) Luv all & cheers, Jen in Chicago - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caroline Johns" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 4:49 AM Subject: OV: UNiversity Challenged > > Hi all > > Delurk warning... Intersting to hear "Dont come home too soon" as a > question on University Challenge last night! El Paxman didn't look too > impressed as he hummed along... > > Cheers, Caroline > > > ************************************ > "Drago Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus" > ************************************ > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:20:07 -0500 From: "Jen Woyan" Subject: OV: Some more "enlightenment" about Universal... Record labels still struggling with Net strategy by Ryan Tate October 16, 2000 http://www.upside.com/texis/mvm/print-it?id=39e4a9920&t=/texis/mvm/ebiz/story Seagram's (VO) Universal Music Group is the only record label playing hardball with MP3.com (MPPP), insisting the online music portal should have to pay crippling -- possibly fatal -- damages for launching a digital music locker service without permission from copyright owners. But Universal has itself announced the same kind of service without obtaining copyright permissions. Although it trumpeted a locker deal with Musicbank in July and retained Loudeye Technologies (LOUD) to encode and archive much of its back catalog in September, the label has not yet received copyright clearance from its songwriters and performers who must green-light both digital reproduction and streaming of their works. Universal's quandary illustrates the complications befalling the major record conglomerates -- Bertelsmann's BMG, EMI, Sony (SNE) Music, Universal and Time Warner's (TWX) Warner Music Group -- as they scurry to sell their music on the Internet. On the one hand, they are trying to settle on a technical scheme to make digital music files piracy-proof and encode their music to work with so-called digital rights management systems, or "DRM" systems. On the other, they need to enter a whole new round of talks with artists with whom they have already struck record deals. Negotiating with artists Those talks are of pressing importance to the digital locker system. Universal is in negotiations with the artists through its contractor, Musicbank. The label does not have to deal with the artists one at a time, but instead is in talks with rights agencies who represent artists collectively -- the Harry Fox Agency for reproduction rights and ASCAP (American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers), BMI and SESAC for performance rights. "Musicbank has established relationships with ASCAP, BMI and SESAC, and we are proactively working with the publishers to negotiate fees," a Musicbank spokeswoman said. "We are proactively talking to" Harry Fox, she adds. But digital copyright agreements are notoriously hard to reach, since there is little precedent, and expectations of the parties involved are often far out of synch. Universal needs reproduction rights for Musicbank and Loudeye to store copies of its music on Web servers and performance rights to stream the music, on demand, to consumers. What it is licensing, technically, is not the sound recording itself -- it already owns that -- but the music composition contained in that recording, which is held by the artist. Universal will not be able to legally realize its digital locker plan until it obtains the rights. Already, Musicbank has put off its September launch as talks grind forward, while Loudeye is encoding 30-second snippets of Universal songs, rather than full tracks, until the permission comes. If it plowed forward without permission from its artists, Universal would find itself subject to nearly the same prosecution that it has pursued against nemesis MP3.com for encoding Universal discs without permission. While Universal seems stuck in the mud now, few industry observers dispute that it will eventually move forward with its digital locker plan, just as the major record labels will eventually contrive a plan for online music sales that is palatable to consumers. And not everyone is happy about that. "This [Universal] deal with Loudeye -- while it looks benign from a distance -- is one of the first big deals when it comes to DRM," says Ira Rothken, a technology lawyer defending music-search firm MP3Board.com against a copyright infringement suit brought by the recording industry. "Copyright is going to be reduced down to contract and the rights implemented through software code S Not only is a person robbed of free speech or fair use, but there's an implicit invasion of privacy." Napster court case goes on While the major labels slouch slowly toward a consensus on how DRM will work and what system, exactly, they will standardize, they are keeping their chief rival, Napster, pinned down in federal court. The suit, which began in December, promises to stretch on for months or years to come. For now, the two sides are squabbling over whether Napster should be allowed to continue operating -- and competing with the music industry online -- during the trial. A decision on that monumental question is expected to come at any time in the next six months. In the meantime, the record labels continue to tinker with their own online business models. BMG BMG announced earlier this week that it had become the fourth of the five major record labels to offer digital music downloads for sale. The offering was a bit late, as the label had promised a launch by the end of the summer, but BMG promises to make up for lost time. While BMG is now selling just 100 albums and singles, the company says in a press release it will have "as many as 2500 albums and singles" out in time for "the holiday season." The company will use InterTrust's DRM system. BMG will sell singles for $2 to $3.50 and albums for $10 to $15. Double albums will go for $12 to $21. Like Universal, BMG has licensed its music catalog to Musicbank. EMI EMI said in early August it would have a music subscription service operating by the end of September. The company has not yet started the service and says it has set no new target date. While the company has not released any new material online since putting out 100 singles and 100 albums in July, a spokeswoman says it plans to expand the trial program to countries outside the U.S. in the next two months. EMI is selling its digital catalog to online retail partners at prices that mirror its offline price structure. It is using Microsoft's (MSFT) Windows Media DRM system and Liquid Audio's (LQID) file format. Sony In late May, Sony announced it was releasing 50 singles for sale through various partner sites. Since then, the company has quietly added more than 100 songs, both new releases and material from its back catalog. The company on Wednesday cut the price of individual downloads from $3.50 to $2. The company is still pursuing a joint subscription service with Universal, which the two parties said in August would be ready to go by the end of the year. Sony now says it will have more information on the system by the end of the year but will not give a date for when it will be ready. Last week, the company spun off a wholly owned subsidiary, 550 Digital Media Ventures, to pursue Internet music business models. At the top of the new venture's agenda will be Sony's own digital locker service, which has been announced but is still in development. Sony is using the Windows Media DRM and ATRAC3 file format, which plays in its line of "Memory Stick" mobile digital music players. Universal In addition to licensing its catalog to Musicbank, Universal sells about 60 tracks encoded with its "Bluematter" DRM system. The singles cost $2 a piece through Universal's e-commerce affiliates. Universal has not added new songs since the original 60 were released in early August. Time Warner Warner is last to the digital sales game, although it promises to offer a substantial number of singles and albums by the end of the year. The company's online moves will undoubtedly be shaped by its parent company's merger with America Online (AOL), a deal that has been held up by federal regulators. Jennifer Woyan jenwoyan@xsite.net 773.271.7660 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:00:48 -0700 From: "L Perry" Subject: RE: OV: CDs you're listening to These are the 5 CDs in my player now: Matchbox 20 - Mad Season Del Amitri - Change Everything (My favorite) Grateful Dead - Hundred Year Hall Live - Throwing Copper Outlaws - Best of, Green Grass & High Tides I think I'm going to have to get a Richard Ashcroft CD next since he's on so many people's lists. Re 30 & 40 year olds and buying new music - it does get pushed farther down the list. When I was younger and had fewer obligations, it was easier to pick up something every week or two, Now, it has just had to wait til the mortgage and taxes and etc are paid. Lauree in Tempe ------------------------------ End of oppositeview-digest V2 #137 **********************************