From: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org (oppositeview-digest) To: oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Subject: oppositeview-digest V2 #136 Reply-To: oppositeview@smoe.org Sender: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oppositeview-digest Wednesday, October 18 2000 Volume 02 : Number 136 Today's Subjects: ----------------- OV: Mixed bag o goodies ["Nick Short" ] OV: CDs [Moer4472@aol.com] Re: OV: Breaking into the US market [doug brown ] Re: OV: CD's you're listening to [doug brown ] Re: OV: Mixed bag o goodies [Leah Schenkenberg ] [none] ["Dale Griffen" ] Re: OV: CDs your listening to ["Jane Armstrong" ] OV: Re: Why do people dis "Cry to Be Found"????? [Kristy McDonald ] OV: Album of the year / to be ["Chris Quartly" ] OV: Radiohead ["Iain Gray" ] Re: OV: CDs you're listening to ["Hilary Gray" ] Re: OV: CDs you're listening to [GDCarranza@aol.com] Re: OV: CDs you're listening to [Leah Schenkenberg ] Re: OV: CDs you're listening to ["debbie" ] Re: OV: CDs you're listening to [Kristy McDonald Subject: OV: Mixed bag o goodies Hello all, It is good that everyones inspired with a little banter at the moment, the M20 saga has captured a lot of opinion, so like the lurker I am, I will add a little. Also about the older demographic not buying music, if it comes down to buying your kids a new school uniform, books, shoes, the gas bill, power bill, and petrol for the car, and food in the fridge, the older demographic will buy that and the CD will take the lowest of those particular priorities. Sometimes who has the time to visit a Music store anyway. If you come home with a Del CD after neglecting the phone bill or not buying your kids a new pair of shoes your household popularity is not that great is it. Simply what +30's want and need are different in Marketing terms, Dumb shit teenagers have the DISPOSIBLE money to buy Mariah. That is why the chart and the popularity situation of the music industry is so fucked nowadays. Then M20 unexplainably proves a success. I'm sure that they are nice human beings and all that bag of chips, but I tend to feel pissed off that second grade "alternative" rock labelled acts get a lot of accolades, and chart success and shit hot marketing (in Australia the first album was promoted obesly, with concert schedules, and promo appearences) while Justin still yearns for that elusive #1 single that probably will elude him forever. Or perhaps in Australia, I still have to explain to a vast majority of people when talking about music who Del Amitri is, that pisses me off even more, and then they draw a comparison after I explain it, to M20, and I feel that Del Amitri and M20 are poles apart in terms of music spirituality. Also, whats in my passenger side compartment is: Radiohead - KID A - Different yet cool Manic Street Preachers - Everything Must Go Dels - Twisted Paul Weller - Modern Classics (best of, sorry) Elastica - Elastica Phil Collins - Both Sides (phonecall from unidentified source left me disgruntled, bitter, depressed, and defeated, an excellent CD for those occasions) See ya, and remember next time before you go out, change everything. Nick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:01:30 EDT From: Moer4472@aol.com Subject: OV: CDs Well, since I only have a ONE CD player, I thought I would give you a rundown on the three songs I downloaded from Napster that I am listening to at this very minute. 1) REM - Losing my Religion 2) Mr Mister - Kyrie 3) Tom Cochrane - Life is a Highway so those are the three songs I have on my playlist right now. In My CD on the Computer, I have Del Amitri, Waking Hours, upstairs in the CD player, I believe I have Simon & Garfunkle's Greatest. Moe from WV, usa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 07:05:22 -0700 (PDT) From: doug brown Subject: Re: OV: Breaking into the US market > A UK perspective on why British bands are finding it > hard to make it big in > the US: > > Perhaps someone in the US could comment on the quote > that "The traditional > British rock sound - guitars and drums - is on the > wane in the US and until > it returns to fashion British bands will struggle." > because arguably the new > Del Amitri album would come into that category? > > I am sort of assuming that apart from the loyal core > fans, the Dels have > largely fallen out of the collective consciousness > of the casual radio > listeners in the US, much as they have done in the > UK. For better or worse Roll to Me might help some. Other than that dim light in the distant past there is little hope they will be remembered. So why dont British bands make it here anymore? 1) The Olympics. Look at the medal count of USA vs. Britain. It's the same with bands. For every band in Britain that makes it there are hundreds here equally as good trying to do the same. Take all the bands in Britain and multiply that times 100 or more and that's the number of bands from here that are unknown there. Candyskins came over here, had some good stuff, worked their butts off touring and promoting, and got stuck on the college circuit competeting with (once again) hundreds of American bands just as good. So they went back to Britain and are pretty much forgotten by now. 2) The biz. The music business is seriously messed up and keeps getting worse. A fine example of this was how well A&M California and A&M London worked together on SoSP. As part of this it's much easier to operate in Britain just because it's such a smaller scale also, and the music companies seem much better organized over there, but bands come over here to a huge jumble. 3) British music mostly sucks. It's funny to read how people think you need to be a trash pop band here to succeed. Hehe go to London and scan the radio. You will hear the worst collection of crap ever. I have to say as a whole American music listeners seem like a more intelligent and demanding lot. Not that we don't have our crap too, but IMO an intelligent band of great musicians will have as good a chance at making it here as anywhere. Look at bands like Goo Goo Dolls and Creed going strong. Look at how well Richard Ashcroft's solo CD is doing. 4) The current British sound just doesn't work over here. This one is hard to pin down but part of it seems like maybe the Brits are still stuck in the 80's. I had to laugh when I read a little while back in Q about Blur thinking they could make it here. Not a chance. They are so British that people here can't understand them at all. Heck I don't understand them. Well ok I'll shut up now except for the Dels. The Dels have never fallen under the label "British Music" here. I'll bet most people who know them would be or were astounded to find out they weren't American. This can only help them with radio play here, but ultimately to have another big success they really just need the 3 basic things: 1) A good CD. 2) A decent music company behind them. 3) Prescence in the US, touring and promo work. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 07:10:29 -0700 (PDT) From: doug brown Subject: Re: OV: CD's you're listening to Some regulars: Richard Ashcroft Dido Live - The Distance to Now Sponge - New Pop Sunday (stuck in my car and can't get out) Texas - Blonde on Blonde __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:18:13 -0500 From: Leah Schenkenberg Subject: Re: OV: Mixed bag o goodies I also don't think there should be comparison between mb20 and DA. They are both on my list of favorites, but then so is The Police, and the only cohesion between any of them is that I like all their songwriting. I still secretly (and jealously) hope that DA never really "makes" it, because then I might have to share them. And I really don't think we can get pissed at one band for having good promotion and doing something on account of that just because DA isn't on name recognition basis in the US. Music doesn't work on a "rob the rich to feed to poor" system, or at least, I don't think it does. Del Amitri could maybe be the next mb20, have critics say that they are faceless and bland, but maybe they are. Their main radio play is still Roll to Me, and we all know that it really isn't their best work or what they're most proud of. It was written to suit American Radio, but I guess I'd rather they stick with what they're doing, #1 hit or not, rather than crank out 10 Roll to Me on the next CD. As long as we all remember that sometimes you can like an obesly promoted band with pop chart success and a following of 15 year olds without being musically retarded, all is well. Just because I'm 19 and the rest of my friends have zero taste doesn't mean that I was sucked into liking mb20 as a result of promotion instead of using my brain. Leah On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:23:03 +1000 "Nick Short" writes: > > I'm sure that they are nice human beings and all that bag of chips, > but I > tend to feel pissed off that second grade "alternative" rock > labelled acts > get a lot of accolades, and chart success and shit hot marketing (in > Australia the first album was promoted obesly, with concert > schedules, and > promo appearences) while Justin still yearns for that elusive #1 > single that > probably will elude him forever. Or perhaps in Australia, I still > have to > explain to a vast majority of people when talking about music who > Del Amitri > is, that pisses me off even more, and then they draw a comparison > after I > explain it, to M20, and I feel that Del Amitri and M20 are poles > apart in > terms of music spirituality. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:49:29 +0100 (BST) From: Caroline Johns Subject: OV: UNiversity Challenged Hi all Delurk warning... Intersting to hear "Dont come home too soon" as a question on University Challenge last night! El Paxman didn't look too impressed as he hummed along... Cheers, Caroline ************************************ "Drago Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus" ************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:46:42 -0400 From: "Dale Griffen" Subject: [none] I got an e-mail from a friend stating that the new Wallflowers CD was a = must have. I went out and bought it and it is quite good. I have only = listened to the first half at this point, and I am very pleased. If = anyone has it, or gets it, the second song Hand Me Down, sounds just = like Justin!!! Collective Souls new CD, Blender is pretty good too. So = the 5 CD's in my player are: The Wallflowers - Breach Collective Soul - Blender World Party - Dumbing Up Elliot Smith - XO Angie Aparo - The American (very good) And just a suggestion, I am mostly just a lurker, but if when sending = submissions to the View, it would be much easier reading if one were to = cut/paste and/or send a new message, rather than to 'reply', or = 'forward'. We end up getting some messages numerous times because of = this. Just a suggestion! Dale ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:10:51 +0100 From: "Jane Armstrong" Subject: Re: OV: CDs your listening to I have to admit I've not heard of ANY of the artists in Phil Denson's list. I also strongly agree with Phil's statement about age and who buys what. Over here everyone is force fed pap on the radio - wall to wall boy/girl bands and dance/trance stuff. The good bands where people can actually play their own instruments (shock! horror!) and don't rely on looks and dance routines are relegated to a late night Saturday slot on Radio 2, which still has the image of being a radio station for the middle aged and pensioners. Gina - I agree with you too - how can we buy new music if we don't know what's out there? I tend to rely on people on this list and others for my new listening pleasure. As to what's currently in my CD player: - - Riding With The King - Eric Clapton and BB King (hasn't been out of my car since I bought it) - - Sailing to Philadelphia - Mark Knopfler (wonderful stuff - far better than Golden Heart!! and I met this particular hero of mine a week or two back. He's still got it!! Another brilliant guitarist with beautiful blue eyes which make you melt) - - Parachutes - Coldplay (as recommended by our Nigel) - - Sing When You're Winning - Robbie Williams (OK - so I should be far too old to like Robbie and he's a real prat - but he makes some great albums. I know Hilary agrees with me here!) - - Alone With Everybody - Richard Ashcroft (I like this on first few hearings - but nothing really stands out - I need to sit and LISTEN to it) - - Waking Hours - Del Amitri (well I there has to be some Dels there somewhere, doesn't there!) And at home I'm currently listening to a CD called New Horizons - a charity CD of mostly Irish acts(The Devlins, Picture House, Sinead Lohan) but with the strange inclusion of Dean Friedman, and the latest Oysterband CD, Granite (Best of) Jane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:42:26 -0700 From: Kristy McDonald Subject: OV: Re: Why do people dis "Cry to Be Found"????? > Though, for the reasons you point out, for all it's differences it's very much > classic del amitri, isn't it? Yes, it IS classic Del. I think a lot of people on the board are getting hung up on "sound" - guitar sound and grunge sound and pop sound . . . it's all music. A lot of people are dissing Matchbox 20, and I think their last album was awesome! But I digress. For me, the Del song that I heard first was "Kiss this Thing Goodbye". At that time, there was a strong song out from the Outfield (For You), and a few really strong Canadian tunes. I was living in a small rat's ass town where we had over 6 months of winter. It was a spring day, and I pulled Del and put it on - and there was NO looking back. That song made me feel great! The melody was dead sexy, the lyrics were clear, and the tone of the song was really light. I think that no matter what you listen to - if a song can make you feel that way, it's pure magic. The first time I heard CTBF was the first time I listened to HoR. Hearing the song made me feel just like I had the first time I heard Del. This'll sound like a Cinderella story, but the song made me feel happy, and problem free for it's almost 4 minute duration. THAT'S why I love Del Amitri, and why they'll keep me coming back for more. Any word on whether a Vanilla flavoured Justin poster is available yet?? Kristy in Canada ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:39:20 -0500 From: "S Meyer" Subject: Re: OV: CDs your listening to Making the rotation these days between car and home: Shy Dog - Kurt Neumann The Big Easy - (soundtrack) Black Stone Tramp - Brother Falling Home - Jude Cole Waking Hours - Del Amitri Best of John Hiatt - John Hiatt ~Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:14:37 -0700 From: "Chris Quartly" Subject: OV: Album of the year / to be Seeming as we are not going to get a del release this year, what do you think has been the best release so far or what are you most looking forward to. I can't wait for Geddy Lee's (Rush bassist, and best bassist ever in my opinion) solo album out in November. It's called 'My Favourite Headache', I've heard the title track which rocks. I also think that the latest Kansas album 'Somewhere to elsewhere' is very good. Cheers Chris HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:26:38 GMT From: "Iain Gray" Subject: OV: Radiohead Hey guys (and to Chuck who mentioned this!), Kid A is WAY different to anything radiohead have done before, as a fan of the band I, just at the moment, cannot listen to the new album...having ssen them live the other week on a big tent on Glasgow green (sound familiar to anyone?????) the combinatino of these 2 events has stopped me being able to listen to the album.....I was dissapointed, cos the Bends and OK Computer are 2 of the finest albums, yet this is just gonna take a lot of getting used to...Optimistic is great but I cant listen to it and it;s sitting on my shelf gathering dust just now :( As for CTBF-fantastic song....i hope there's more in this style on the New Album.....exploring different avenues of music is what it's about I assume, same with radiohead....hmmmmm Iain - championing the covering of Roll Away the Stone as a b-side please Mr. Currie, complete with Kevin McDermott doing "sha la la la push push!" _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:56:51 +0100 From: "Hilary Gray" Subject: Re: OV: CDs you're listening to If we're bringing our listening tastes out of the closet, I'll admit to the following in my car: George Michael - Faith Bon Jovi - Slippery When Wet Rocky Horror Picture Show 25th Anniversary CD Travis - The Man Who (and I *still* can't get into this, I am trying) Tears for Fears - Tears Roll Down (Greatest Hits) Supernaturals - A Tune A Day and yes Jane.... Robbie Williams - Sing When You're Winning (What no Dels!?!?) It's really interesting reading the opinions on why certain types of music are played on the radio vs bought in the shops etc. I prefer the UK radio system where most stations I listen to will play a certain variety of music - the stations I listened to when in the US seem to have specialised to the point of sounding like they were playing the same song all the time. Which seems great for a couple of days listening to your favourite kind of music, but I must admit to getting bored after a while. My local station here is in favour at the moment having played Always the Last to Know twice in the last week, it plays all music from the 60s to present with a bit of an 80s flavour, which suits me. And I must mention the price of CDs being another factor in the UK, £16 (US$23) is a lot to invest in a CD when you aren't sure whether you'll like it. And the older you get the less risks you take ;o) I think we all agree that in it's present state, the music industry sucks, but what are we going to do about it? Hilary ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:03:27 EDT From: GDCarranza@aol.com Subject: Re: OV: CDs you're listening to In a message dated 10/17/00 3:59:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, hilary@delamitri.co.uk writes: << (US$23) is a lot to invest in a CD when you aren't sure whether you'll like it. And the older you get the less risks you take ;o) >> I've never paid $23 for a CD, unless it was a double CD. I think realistically, CD's in the states go between $17-$20, but you can get them as low as $13 if they are new releases or on sale. Still have to justify it, though...new CD or gas? ~gina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:02:39 -0500 From: Leah Schenkenberg Subject: Re: OV: CDs you're listening to Go for the CDs. The investment lasts longer. I personally think that Ebay is the only way to go...or else, if you can wait 6 months, join BMG or something. In the last 3 years, other than buying mb20 and Sting on the day of release, I've never spent more than $8 for a CD, and I've never had a scratched or damaged one. Leah On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:03:27 EDT GDCarranza@aol.com writes: Still have to > justify it, > though...new CD or gas? > > ~gina ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:15:24 -0700 From: Kristy McDonald Subject: Re: OV: CDs you're listening to > << (US$23) is a lot to invest in a CD when you aren't sure whether you'll like > it. And the older you get the less risks you take ;o) >> Tish p'shaw. I got the import Hatful with the Abby Road CD at Virgin here in Vancouver and the smegger cost me - take a deep breath - $50!! That's a lot of money, no matter WHO it is! Now, Canadians unite, 'cause you might recognize this name. An 80's goddess named Luba released a CD two months ago, and I paid $26. I must be a fan. Now, re: CD player shtuff . . . I have BNL - Maroon, Robbie Williams - Sing When You're Winning (oh, to have been Nicole Appleton), two mixed 80's discs I burned from that "n" server that we all seem to argue about, Duran - Wedding Album, Hanson (oh, stop it!) - This Time Around, Kim Mitchell - Shakin' Like a Human Being, Del, HoR, Matchbox 20 - Yourself or Someone Like You and 54-40 - Casual Viewing. Honorable Mention Goes to The Corrs - In Blue which I took out for a rest a few days ago. Love them!! Kristy in Canada ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:00:10 -0500 From: "debbie" Subject: Re: OV: CDs you're listening to Another good idea is MrSwap.com. You can list those "bad investment" CDs you thought you'd wasted your money one to swap for something else you want to try. And if your new CD doesn't suit you, you can list it to swap for something else. I got an awesome, hard-to-find Tori Amos CD for just $2.99 shipping & handling. And you can still afford to buy gas, too at those prices. :-) Pretty cool, huh? Oh, and I don't even HAVE a CD player in my car, but I mostly listen to a tape I made that has Miles Hunt/The Wonder Stuff on one side and (of course) the Dels on the other. :-) In my 3 disc CD player at home, I've got: 1. Del Amitri - Not Where It's At/Sleep Instead of Teardrops/Spare Pair of Laces/Before the Evening Steals the Afternoon 2. Miles Hunt - Life's Great 3. Legendary Crystal Chandelier - Love or the Decimal Equivalent Have a great day! debbie "If those who only see the bad things don't even try to lift their feet out of the muck & mire, they'll never make it to the fields of flowers, dancing or not." - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leah Schenkenberg" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:02 PM Subject: Re: OV: CDs you're listening to > > Go for the CDs. The investment lasts longer. > > I personally think that Ebay is the only way to go...or else, if you can > wait 6 months, join BMG or something. In the last 3 years, other than > buying mb20 and Sting on the day of release, I've never spent more than > $8 for a CD, and I've never had a scratched or damaged one. > > Leah > > On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:03:27 EDT GDCarranza@aol.com writes: > Still have to > > justify it, > > though...new CD or gas? > > > > ~gina > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:05:32 -0500 From: "debbie" Subject: Re: OV: CDs you're listening to - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kristy McDonald" To: ; "OV" Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 10:15 PM Subject: Re: OV: CDs you're listening to > > > << (US$23) is a lot to invest in a CD when you aren't sure whether > you'll like > > it. And the older you get the less risks you take ;o) >> > > Tish p'shaw. I got the import Hatful with the Abby Road CD at Virgin here in > Vancouver and the smegger cost me - take a deep breath - $50!! That's a lot of > money, no matter WHO it is! > > Now, Canadians unite, 'cause you might recognize this name. An 80's > goddess named > Luba released a CD two months ago, and I paid $26. I must be a fan. > > Kristy in Canada > > Ok, now, I'm not gonna comment on your compelation disc...LOL, but I'm surprised you didn't list Spirit of the West, what with you being Canadian and all. I have yet to buy any of their CDs (they're on my wish list, though :-), but when I think of great Canadian bands, they're the first one that springs to mind....oh, and they're guitar oriented, so I must be old. LOL Have a wonderful day, debbie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:42:51 -0700 From: Kristy McDonald Subject: Re: OV: CDs you're listening to > I'm surprised you didn't list Spirit of the West, what with you being Canadian > and all. I have yet to buy any of their CDs (they're on my wish list, though > :-), but when I think of great Canadian bands, they're the first one that > springs to mind....oh, and they're guitar oriented, so I must be old. LOL Hullo - were you reading my mind?? I love Sprit - I've seen them live 4 times, and they are jut the BEST - okay, 5th best, maybe 7th. But they are great. I have a few of their CD's, and they never disappoint. Stuff like "Save this house" and "Political" are my favourites, although "If Venice is Sinking" makes me belly laugh every time I hear it. Hell, the Pope thought he had a problem with Madonna! Needless to say, as a proud Canadian, eh?, I love Rush because they're Rush - let's face it, Geddy Lee is nothing to look at. I think SCTV is genius, and yes Virginia, I have gotten up close and personal with a moose. I AM Canadian! Well, maybe not totally. I don't drink beer. Kristy in Canada, eh? P.S. - I guess Debbie and I will meet soon in a retirement home. Miami or Victoria - your choice! ------------------------------ End of oppositeview-digest V2 #136 **********************************