From: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org (oppositeview-digest) To: oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Subject: oppositeview-digest V2 #135 Reply-To: oppositeview@smoe.org Sender: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-oppositeview-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk oppositeview-digest Tuesday, October 17 2000 Volume 02 : Number 135 Today's Subjects: ----------------- OV: Re: oppositeview-digest V2 #134 [klaic@net2000.com.au] Fw: OV: Re: oppositeview-digest V2 #134 [Leah Schenkenberg ] OV: Cool bands don't sell records [Paul Houston ] OV: Cool Bands don't sell records [Leah Schenkenberg ] Re: OV: CD's you're listening to [Aleksandr Yap Subject: Fw: OV: Re: oppositeview-digest V2 #134 I know it does. The matchbox twenty concert I attended last week was in a college town, but the crowd was similar to that of the Basilica Block Party. I thought I was going to be pushing through lots of cutsie Abercrombie girls, but most of them were 30+. Maybe because it was in rural minnesota and there isn't that much else to do when you're 3 hours outside the cities, but it was a nice, calm, drunk crowd. The next day in class, some annoying guy proceeded to tell me that Matchbox twenty was the epitome of pop culture and he was all superior because he listened to real bands like Phish (ooooo). But I read the Spin article about matchbox twenty when their 2nd album was released this may, and they really are striving to be middle of the road. They don't want to be innovative, they don't want to be making music and starving for it. Their philosophy is 'Cool bands don't sell records'. Leah - --------- I believe that Matchbox 20 really have got the right idea and deserve all the success they're getting. Simple guitar pop songs but packaged in a way that is fresh and most importantly appealing to the kids. I don't know their exact target demographic but I wouldn't be surprised if it ranges from 15 to 50 year olds. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:36:48 -0400 From: "Chuck Simmons" Subject: OV: Breaking into the US market As someone who lives in the US and has traditionally had a bias towards British bands, I found that article pretty interesting. Radiohead's album is #1? Great. I have a couple of their albums, and I thought OK Computer was brilliant. When I went to a local Strawberries here in Bristol, CT to buy it the first day that it came out, the store was sold out, which surprised me a lot. When a salesman told me they didn't have any copies, he suggested that the album wasn't very good anyway. "There's just not much singing," quoth this musical critic, "You might want to listen to it before you buy it." My response was that OK Computer was good enough for me to buy at least their next three albums without questions. I have the album now, and think it's good, but no masterpiece. They appeared on Saturday Night Live two nights ago and were great, though their singer was really difficult to watch. I think that Radiohead's current success in the U.S. came mostly as a result of putting out a great, great album that people loved and talked up to their friends. Certainly, apart from college radio, they did not get much air time for OK Computer. I will admit that I rarely listen to the radio, and more rarely watch MTV, but I could not even tell you what their singles were from that album. How does this relate to Del Amitri? Certainly they've put out great albums. Has Radiohead's marketing been so much better? I don't know. I know Radiohead is huge in other countries as well, but that hasn't stopped the USA from ignoring big British acts before (The Jam, for example). I guess, to paraphrase Del Amitri, they just ARE where it's at. I wouldn't write off guitar music as dead in the USA, however. Yes, hip-hop is probably king, but I think that one reason many British acts don't penetrate this market is more a matter of tone than anything else. Many modestly-successful acts (aside from fluffy pop and pure hip-hop) now are fun-oriented, playful, bands with lighter content, like Smashmouth, Sugar Ray, and Beck, Bare Naked Ladies (for the record, I like all of those bands). These bands are quite different from a lot of the British acts that have not quite made it here, which seem very serious and dramatic - at least at first listen. Travis, Stereophonics, Doves, Supergrass, even Oasis, all have sort of a plodding, more serious, more atmospheric sound to them. Personally, I think that they all sound at least a little alike. For a few years, so many bands that you heard in the USA all sounded so alike that it was difficult to differentiate between them (tastes like chicken, sounds like Pearl Jam). It seems like that might be what is holding these British bands back. This is purely unscientific, of course, but those are my reasons. I own music by all of the above bands, but I don't love much of it. In general, I don't think that anyone making music with very serious themes is very successful these days. I don't think it's necessary for good music, but it would nice to see a few more bands take a shot at it, at least from time to time. Where are the new U2s? So with heavy-handed music on the outs, I don't think that bodes well for the new Del Amitri album, even if it is lightened a lot by the best ironic writing ever (apologies to Paul Westerberg). The youth of this country are extremely unlikely to latch on to it, and that means it will be a niche album, at best. That will have to be good enough. I, for one, can't wait. Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:38:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitch Subject: Re: OV: Breaking into the US market > As someone who lives in the US and has traditionally had a bias towards > British bands, I found that article pretty interesting. Radiohead's album > is #1? Great. I think Radiohead is a nice example -- they strike me as a band that produces honest music, as opposed to embracing the 'Cool bands don't sell records' philosophy. I was impressed at how different this new album is from the huge OK Computer -- took balls to change things up in the wake of great success. I saw Change Everything -> Twisted the same way. I don't want to be exploited by a band targeting my demographic. I have to hope del amitri are creating the album they want, commercially-viable or not. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:09:16 -0400 From: "Susan & C. Reid Gardner" Subject: Re: OV: dis "Cry to Be Found" Kristy McDonald wrote: > I dunno if Mitch dislikes CTBF or not, but a LOT of you do. Why? I think the > song is melodic, and the lyrics hold a lot of truth. Personally, it surprises me > that EVERY female Del fan out there doesn't lick their Justin posters every time > they hear it! I adore the song, and was smitten with it from the first listen simply because it reminds me of Motown/r&b songs I heard on the radio when I was a kid. I like it when the band tries something different... shows they're stretching their wings instead of sitting on their comfy haunches. > Seeing I am of the posterless variety of fan, I have to resort to > web site photos and the album covers. Kristy, go to www.pushposters.com and see what they have. I just got two posters recently, one really grand one of SOSP (Justin & Iain) that's so big I think I'm going to add a room onto my house just for it to be displayed in. (The other poster is Eric Clapton 'Live In Hyde Park' ~ Jane, if you don't have this one .....GET IT!!!) Push Posters has a marvelous selection and they sent my goodies to me quite quickly. Push Posters TTFN Susan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:19:25 -0400 From: "Susan & C. Reid Gardner" Subject: OV: Don't Come Home Hi ya'll, Well pigs must be flying somewhere because Saturday I actually found a copy of DA's cd single 'Don't Come Home Too Soon" at Media Play. This is the one with the flag-adorned happy face, and the yellow stripe down the left side. It also has 'Nothing Ever Happens' 'Kiss This Thing Goodbye' and 'Always The Last to Know' (single mix). I already have a copy but I bought it on the spot thinking some of you stateside cd single-starved DA obsessives might want it. It was in the "great buys" bin, which was 50% off the marked price, so I got it for the itty bitty sum of $5! If you're interested, email me at creidg@bellsouth.net and I'll let you have it for the same amount. TTFN Susan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:03:42 +0100 From: Paul Houston Subject: OV: Cool bands don't sell records At 9:21 am -0500 16/10/00, Leah Schenkenberg wrote: >Cool bands don't sell records ... and they don't sell their souls for the lure of the $$$$$ either. >matchbox twenty are striving to be middle of the road. They don't >want to be innovative, they don't want to be making music and starving >for it. Their philosophy is 'Cool bands don't sell records'. What a sad future for music if this is what bands are now striving for. What happened to 'Art'. To M20 'Art' is short for Arthur. >the crowd was similar to that of the Basilica Block >Party. I thought I was going to be pushing through lots of cutsie >Abercrombie girls, but most of them were 30+. Maybe, hopefully, most of them were there to see the Jayhawks ph ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:41:27 -0500 From: "Phil Denson" Subject: OV: CDs your listening to All this talk of music twang my ear. What is everyone currently listening to? My six track has the following in it... Queens Of The Stone Age - Restricted Sum 41 - Half Hour Of Power Dexter Freebish - A life Of Saturdays Marvelous 3 - ReadySexGo The Nixons - Latest Thing The Apples In Stereo - The Discovery Of A World Inside The Moon I believe age does have alot to do with the state of radio/music today. I'm 35 and buy tons of music but most of the 30-40 crowd that I know does not. The stuff above is all very different but very good (IMHO). Most adults or teenagers for that matter do not want to spend the time searching for great new music...older people tend not to have the time, younger people are breast fed radio junkies that haven't figured out that they are being brainwashed (most of us were at one time). I think Matchbox 20 gets a bad rap...their first album is extremely good but with success comes the naysayers..."they sold out", "they are playing for the money" and my favorite "it's formulated". If you've only made one album, how can you sell out? It is a known fact that the record label told MB20 that their music was "bland and would not appeal to radio audiences". Art is great but believe me you...they are all playing for some money. Formulated...all music is formulated...it's called personal taste. Paul Houston wrote: Maybe, hopefully, most of them were there to see the Jayhawks Another great band...their new album Smile is very cool but I'd like to think they were there to see BOTH of them... Phil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:11:05 -0500 From: Leah Schenkenberg Subject: OV: Cool Bands don't sell records I don't think Rob Thomas is really selling out at all...I think he enjoys the music he writes for mb20 (or else he fakes it very well) and it just-so-happens to fall into that pop market that sells very well. He's a songwriter first; that's what he wants to be (I heard that on Tim McGraws next album there will possibly be a song that he wrote). mb20 never started out to make money because every critic told them that they wouldn't. My favorite quote of theirs is after reading a bad review, one of the members said "Oh my god! I think I'll commit suicide! Maybe I'll jump off my wallet!" Rob said on stage that he grew up with Elton John and Billy Joel, so the favorite part of his concert is playing piano (he plays very beautifully) on his slower songs. Kyle Cook is amazing on guitar for only being 24...I think that they aren't sacrificing anything by being this popular because they're still doing what they love (it just happens to pay them that well). And if you look at his lyrics, they sell to the same market (and nearly as well) as Britney, but actually have some beauty and intelligence. I can't see how that would be selling out to anyone. Kristi, do go to PushPosters. The Cry to be Found poster is perfection. Leah ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:34:08 -0700 From: Darren Holmquist Subject: OV: CD's you're listening to Right now... this very instant, the 5 (sorry, only a 5 disc changer) Shy Dog - Kurt Neumann Cowboy Mouth - Easy Chistine Lakeland - Fireworks Michael Nesmith - Live At The Palais Beatles - Anthology 3 (bought the book, had to have background music) > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Denson > > Queens Of The Stone Age - Restricted > Sum 41 - Half Hour Of Power > Dexter Freebish - A life Of Saturdays > Marvelous 3 - ReadySexGo > The Nixons - Latest Thing > The Apples In Stereo - The Discovery Of A World Inside The Moon I know one OV'er who's impressed! N.T.! > Most adults or > teenagers for that matter do not want to spend the time > searching for great > new music...older people tend not to have the time, younger people are > breast fed radio junkies that haven't figured out that they are being > brainwashed (most of us were at one time). This is basically true. Most people I know wouldn't have a clue as to what to buy if there wasn't a "Top 10" sellers list in front of them. I do have the luxury of being able to check out discs very cheaply, but if they're good, I'll buy them and pass them on. Several people on this list have been on the receiving end of that. To many many people, music is just background. Words don't mean a thing... That's a computer? Oh well. I just need something to vacuum to. A woman I work with knows alot about music. But, what's in her car? Kid Rock. Kid Rock has it's place (strip clubs) but it's... I was going to say it doesn't make you think about things differently, but just THINKING that as a possibility is stupid. > I think Matchbox 20 gets a bad rap...their first album is > extremely good but > with success comes the naysayers..."they sold out" , "they are > playing for > the money" and my favorite "it's formulated". If you've only made one > album, how can you sell out? It is a known fact that the > record label told > MB20 that their music was "bland and would not appeal to > radio audiences". > Art is great but believe me you...they are all playing for some money. > Formulated...all music is formulated...it's called personal taste. Phil Phil Phil, haven't you heard? We're not supposed to have personal taste. Brittney Aguiriels;poijoijr3oirkjf;alkjllllla, and that 8 year old kid made up to look like Frank Sinatra... THAT'S the stuff we like. That's what they keep telling us, anyway. Backstreet Boyszone to Men is deep, where it's AT music. It's hip; it's now; it's what the public is yelling for. Too bad the Majors can't hear clearly... we're yelling NO MORE, but they just hear MORE MORE. One of my joys is to go into a used records shop and see piles and piles of Brittney, all the boy bands, the spice girls, all that stuff. While there's nothing in (for instance) the Dels bin. Except maybe a record club version of Twisted. > Paul Houston wrote: > Maybe, hopefully, most of them were there to see the Jayhawks > > Another great band...their new album Smile is very cool but > I'd like to think they were there to see BOTH of them... I just hope that someone in the audience went... "Oh, yeah. THIS is what real music sounds like!" Also overheard at the concert: "And, what are those things in the back that that guy is banging on? Drums??? People actually play those things for an entire song?? Wow. I'm impressed." "How can you hear the bass drum over those loud guitars??" "Where are the back up dancers??" "WAAASSSSSUUUUPPPPP" "Do you think Christina will make a guest appearance??? What do ya mean it's an over-21 show??" Okay, my lame attempt at humor is over. Sorry if you read this far. Peace, Darren ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:27:05 +1100 (EST) From: Aleksandr Yap Subject: Re: OV: CD's you're listening to in my carry case. Kasey Chambers - The Captain (Aus) Paddy Casey - Amen So Be It Steve Poltz - One Left Shoe Things of Stone and Wood - the Yearning (Aus) Weddings Parties Anything - Greatest (Aus) b52s - Cosmic Thing The Poor - Who Cares (Aus) B*Witched - B*Witched The Whitlams - Love this City (Aus) Cheers, AL - - "Oh yea watch out for AL - he could kill you and ten paces with *that* Cd Collection ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:07:33 -0500 From: Leah Schenkenberg Subject: Re: OV: CD's you're listening to Um, the five I listened to on the drive home: ABBA Gold 15 years: the best of peter, paul and mary Carly Simon: Film Noir matchbox twenty: mad season The very best of Sting and The Police Have I failed you all? > younger > people are > > breast fed radio junkies that haven't figured out that they are > being > > brainwashed Certainly not my generation! Leah On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:34:08 -0700 Darren Holmquist writes: > Right now... this very instant, the 5 (sorry, only a 5 disc changer) > > Shy Dog - Kurt Neumann > Cowboy Mouth - Easy > Chistine Lakeland - Fireworks > Michael Nesmith - Live At The Palais > Beatles - Anthology 3 (bought the book, had to have background > music) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Phil Denson > > > > Queens Of The Stone Age - Restricted > > Sum 41 - Half Hour Of Power > > Dexter Freebish - A life Of Saturdays > > Marvelous 3 - ReadySexGo > > The Nixons - Latest Thing > > The Apples In Stereo - The Discovery Of A World Inside The Moon > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:07:33 -0500 From: Leah Schenkenberg Subject: Re: OV: CD's you're listening to Um, the five I listened to on the drive home: ABBA Gold 15 years: the best of peter, paul and mary Carly Simon: Film Noir matchbox twenty: mad season The very best of Sting and The Police Have I failed you all? > younger > people are > > breast fed radio junkies that haven't figured out that they are > being > > brainwashed Certainly not my generation! Leah On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:34:08 -0700 Darren Holmquist writes: > Right now... this very instant, the 5 (sorry, only a 5 disc changer) > > Shy Dog - Kurt Neumann > Cowboy Mouth - Easy > Chistine Lakeland - Fireworks > Michael Nesmith - Live At The Palais > Beatles - Anthology 3 (bought the book, had to have background > music) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Phil Denson > > > > Queens Of The Stone Age - Restricted > > Sum 41 - Half Hour Of Power > > Dexter Freebish - A life Of Saturdays > > Marvelous 3 - ReadySexGo > > The Nixons - Latest Thing > > The Apples In Stereo - The Discovery Of A World Inside The Moon > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:07:33 -0500 From: Leah Schenkenberg Subject: Re: OV: CD's you're listening to Um, the five I listened to on the drive home: ABBA Gold 15 years: the best of peter, paul and mary Carly Simon: Film Noir matchbox twenty: mad season The very best of Sting and The Police Have I failed you all? > younger > people are > > breast fed radio junkies that haven't figured out that they are > being > > brainwashed Certainly not my generation! Leah On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:34:08 -0700 Darren Holmquist writes: > Right now... this very instant, the 5 (sorry, only a 5 disc changer) > > Shy Dog - Kurt Neumann > Cowboy Mouth - Easy > Chistine Lakeland - Fireworks > Michael Nesmith - Live At The Palais > Beatles - Anthology 3 (bought the book, had to have background > music) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Phil Denson > > > > Queens Of The Stone Age - Restricted > > Sum 41 - Half Hour Of Power > > Dexter Freebish - A life Of Saturdays > > Marvelous 3 - ReadySexGo > > The Nixons - Latest Thing > > The Apples In Stereo - The Discovery Of A World Inside The Moon > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:54:35 -0500 From: "barbaralafferty" Subject: Re: OV: CD's you're listening to Hall & Oates.....Marigold Skies Sheryl Crow's latest.... Todd Snider Jimmy Buffett's ...Tues, Thurs, Saturdays Paul Simon's... greatest hits - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leah Schenkenberg" To: Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 10:07 PM Subject: Re: OV: CD's you're listening to > Um, the five I listened to on the drive home: > > ABBA Gold > 15 years: the best of peter, paul and mary > Carly Simon: Film Noir > matchbox twenty: mad season > The very best of Sting and The Police > > Have I failed you all? > > > younger > > people are > > > breast fed radio junkies that haven't figured out that they are > > being > > > brainwashed > > Certainly not my generation! > > Leah > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:34:08 -0700 Darren Holmquist > writes: > > Right now... this very instant, the 5 (sorry, only a 5 disc changer) > > > > Shy Dog - Kurt Neumann > > Cowboy Mouth - Easy > > Chistine Lakeland - Fireworks > > Michael Nesmith - Live At The Palais > > Beatles - Anthology 3 (bought the book, had to have background > > music) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Phil Denson > > > > > > Queens Of The Stone Age - Restricted > > > Sum 41 - Half Hour Of Power > > > Dexter Freebish - A life Of Saturdays > > > Marvelous 3 - ReadySexGo > > > The Nixons - Latest Thing > > > The Apples In Stereo - The Discovery Of A World Inside The Moon > > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:36:06 EDT From: GDCarranza@aol.com Subject: Re: OV: CDs your listening to In a message dated 10/16/00 4:56:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, thedensons@ldd.net writes: << I believe age does have alot to do with the state of radio/music today. I'm 35 and buy tons of music but most of the 30-40 crowd that I know does not. >> I'd be happy with a decent radio station. I buy good music, but there is not a lot of it being played on the airwaves in LA. I can't buy it if I don't know about it. The only decent station that I could "get in" in my car went off the air a couple of months ago. on the other note...what have I been listening to lately? I've been listening to Fiona Apple's latest again. It's just that kind of month. ~gina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:33:33 +0100 From: "Kevin Cawthorne - www.delamitri.co.uk" Subject: RE: OV: CDs your listening to Richard Ashcroft, sweeeeeeeeet.. And why can't I get a car CD player that holds more than 10 discs, don't ask me to make that sort of limited decision!!! Kevin Cawthorne www.delamitri.co.uk - -----Original Message----- From: owner-oppositeview@smoe.org [mailto:owner-oppositeview@smoe.org]On Behalf Of GDCarranza@aol.com Sent: 17 October 2000 05:36 To: thedensons@ldd.net; oppositeview@smoe.org Subject: Re: OV: CDs your listening to In a message dated 10/16/00 4:56:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, thedensons@ldd.net writes: << I believe age does have alot to do with the state of radio/music today. I'm 35 and buy tons of music but most of the 30-40 crowd that I know does not. >> I'd be happy with a decent radio station. I buy good music, but there is not a lot of it being played on the airwaves in LA. I can't buy it if I don't know about it. The only decent station that I could "get in" in my car went off the air a couple of months ago. on the other note...what have I been listening to lately? I've been listening to Fiona Apple's latest again. It's just that kind of month. ~gina ------------------------------ End of oppositeview-digest V2 #135 **********************************