From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #742 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, August 3 2015 Volume 2014 : Number 742 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2015 #383 [Steve Danielson ] Re: Sweet Bird and Aging and whatever else [lawntreader@googlemail.com] RE: Sweet Bird and Aging and whatever else ["Susan E. McNamara" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2015 #383 Good list, especially "Circle Game", what a great song! Here's a great quote for this subject: bGetting old is not for sissies.b -Bette Davis - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 07:02:56 -0500 From: lcs4bike@yahoo.com Subject: Aging songs Hi Old Friends, I was puzzled by 45 seeming old. I got 11 on that and it sounds so young!! But wait...isn't 60 the new 30?! So the song tally so far that I can see is: Sweet Bird Facelift Song to Aging Children Circle Game How about adding Chinese Cafe to the list?B The lines, "we look like our mother's did back when we were those kids age... nothing lasts for long" have always struck me to the core. Joni is so introspective and extrospective at the same time.B (Okay so I made up a word) I was listening to and singing Sweet Bird in my living room last night after all this talk about it, and my sweet Parrotlette birdy started singing!!!B I think she heard the word "bird" and recognized it because even though her name is Little Green, I call her birdy every day when I talk with her.B I said to my husband, "listen she's singing the song!!"B He didn't buy it, but he doesn't know her as well as I do. ;)))) At least he gets Joni and gets me getting Joni! I love the song Sweet Bird! A very young Kevin from New Jersey turned me on to the album THOSL and told me I'd love Sweet Bird and he was right!!!B Hey Kevin...you out there lurking?B Hellllloooooo? I miss you bud!B Woo pigs souie!!!B Wish you'd come to the SC Jonifest!! I can hardly wait!! Love, Laura Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 23:21:12 +0100 From: lawntreader@googlemail.com Subject: Re: Sweet Bird and Aging and whatever else A friend of mine said that she had always dreaded getting crow's feet around her eyes, then one day she "looked into the mirror and saw the entire crow" staring back. Not sure if that's a sweet bird! Anita > On 31 Jul 2015, at 18:30, David J. Phillips wrote: > > The line that keeps coming to me is "all these vain promises on beauty jars." I'm sixty now, and youth, just plain old youth, has never been so attractive to me. It takes my breath away to see a man in his twenties, or thirties. And I look at myself here - unguents and personal trainers and facials. (There's a New Yorker cartoon of three gay men of a certain age. One is saying "It's not the senior moments that get to me, It's the Death in Venice moments.") > > And honestly, my life at sixty is about the best it has ever been. But on bad days I look at calendars circled with compromise, or missed opportunities, or just plain erroneous (though well-considered) decisions. > > Ah well. I smile at the sweet bird, up on its feathers laughing. > > djp > >> On 31/07/15 11:3705, Susan E. McNamara wrote: >> I hear you Rob. I have 12 years on you, and it's really been hitting >> home. Yesterday I had to buy two pairs of eye glasses to cover four >> levels of seeing - reading/computer and reading/driving ... not only >> did I wake up vanishing but my retirement nest egg is vanishing too >> ... ch-ching. Plus someone is going to reach planet earth in the >> next calendar year who will eventually start calling me the G-word. >> Actually, can't wait for that one!!! >> >> -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org >> [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Rob Procyk Sent: Friday, >> July 31, 2015 3:32 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Sweet Bird and Aging >> and whatever else >> >> I'm reading posts completely out of order due to my wonky email and >> our temperamental Smoe, so I am sorry if this is part of a "me too" >> chorus. My dear friend Mark, "Sweet Bird" has become so special to me >> the past few years. Indeed, it may almost be my fave Joni song now, >> just for the line you mentioned. Lately, the dragging my feet to slow >> the circles down thing is so very real. I mean, I've always felt the >> sadness of aging as the years have gone by, but right now, it's all >> too real. When I think back to how quickly the past 25 years have >> gone, I'm rattled. I've always looked young and acted younger. Now >> I'm 45, and while I may not look it, I finally feel it. My standing >> joke has been "I can't be in my 40s - I still eat candy and watch >> Scooby Doo reruns!" But it's true - I'm not 6 anymore. I've been >> married 17 years, I've been orphaned by both parents during the last >> 7 years, I've had 4 kids and have become the father to teenagers, >> I've fallen into a complex job... My ma! ntras are a mixture of the >> Talking Heads "Once in a Lifetime"and FM's "Landslide" and "Sweet >> Bird" and "Nothing Can Be Done." I'm not really liking this stage - I >> know it's just holding pattern until the next age shift brings about >> a whole new set of intricate issues. However, all that being said, I >> choose to cling to the idea that happiness is the best facelift. So >> while I come to terms with the fact that it will never be 1979 again >> and I'll never be listening to Boz Scaggs' "We're All Alone" through >> big-ass headphones in our rumpus room, I'm still comforted that I'm >> not the only one who has realized that they have woke up vanishing. >> And, sometimes, we all have to get out of our heads, so I'm sending >> awesome vibes for all y'all who get to go to SC Jonifest. TGIF, Rob >> >> Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 15:37:05 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Sweet Bird and Aging and whatever else I hear you Rob. I have 12 years on you, and it's really been hitting home. Yesterday I had to buy two pairs of eye glasses to cover four levels of seeing - reading/computer and reading/driving ... not only did I wake up vanishing but my retirement nest egg is vanishing too ... ch-ching. Plus someone is going to reach planet earth in the next calendar year who will eventually start calling me the G-word. Actually, can't wait for that one!!! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Rob Procyk Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 3:32 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Sweet Bird and Aging and whatever else I'm reading posts completely out of order due to my wonky email and our temperamental Smoe, so I am sorry if this is part of a "me too" chorus. My dear friend Mark, "Sweet Bird" has become so special to me the past few years. Indeed, it may almost be my fave Joni song now, just for the line you mentioned. Lately, the dragging my feet to slow the circles down thing is so very real. I mean, I've always felt the sadness of aging as the years have gone by, but right now, it's all too real. When I think back to how quickly the past 25 years have gone, I'm rattled. I've always looked young and acted younger. Now I'm 45, and while I may not look it, I finally feel it. My standing joke has been "I can't be in my 40s - I still eat candy and watch Scooby Doo reruns!" But it's true - I'm not 6 anymore. I've been married 17 years, I've been orphaned by both parents during the last 7 years, I've had 4 kids and have become the father to teenagers, I've fallen into a complex job... My ma! ntras are a mixture of the Talking Heads "Once in a Lifetime"and FM's "Landslide" and "Sweet Bird" and "Nothing Can Be Done." I'm not really liking this stage - I know it's just holding pattern until the next age shift brings about a whole new set of intricate issues. However, all that being said, I choose to cling to the idea that happiness is the best facelift. So while I come to terms with the fact that it will never be 1979 again and I'll never be listening to Boz Scaggs' "We're All Alone" through big-ass headphones in our rumpus room, I'm still comforted that I'm not the only one who has realized that they have woke up vanishing. And, sometimes, we all have to get out of our heads, so I'm sending awesome vibes for all y'all who get to go to SC Jonifest. TGIF, Rob Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:46:07 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Noisey.vice.com: Both Sides, Now and Then: What Joni Mitchell's Songs can teach us about the art of aging ... I hear ya Bob. I get cranky at our tributes when 4 or 5 people do incredible deep tracks and then a phenomenal artist that I've been waiting to hear from does BYT. Waaaahhh! I know they can do better, but hey it's a crowd pleaser, and if you have a packed house they are going to be disappointed if they don't hear their favorite song!!! :) From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com [mailto:Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 1:28 PM To: Susan E. McNamara Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Noisey.vice.com: Both Sides, Now and Then: What Joni Mitchell's Songs can teach us about the art of aging ... I agree with you that it made me smile when he referenced his Mother in terms of being turned on to Joni. Good on ya, Ma! And of course, millenials' relationship to music is different from ours. The whole "buying physical music - - reading album covers and innersleeves - artwork - listening to music as an act unto itself" has morphed into digital apps and software of streaming instantly available and instantly disposable (and forgettable) music. While folks in their 30's and up may still buy CD's and even vinyl, the milennials have no intention of owning product, at least not in the numbers that were once commonplace. As for BYT, I agree with you and no one has heard as many versions of BYT as many times as me. Luckily it's really faded as a go-to cover; so far this year there have only been 3-4 BYT covers whereas last year brought us around 20. At least with BYT they're spread out through the year - with River they start popping out like Duggars from mid November to mid-January. Every once in a while someone does a different thing with it but not often. I hear that piano Jingle Bells riff and just heave a big sigh. Bob NP: Bright Eyes, "Four Winds" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any and all computers and other devices. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 14:28:03 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Noisey.vice.com: Both Sides, Now and Then: What Joni Mitchell's Songs can teach us about the art of aging ... Hi Mark, I related so much to what you said about your feelings on attending your first Jonifest. My first Jonifest, I think, was at the Full Moon in 2003 or 2004 and I didn't know what to expect. I had been on the list from the beginning and of course there was all the guitar stuff, so people were immediately on me (in a nice way) but this sad introvert was kind of taken aback (they think they know you, they don't know you!) I had such stage fright playing, too! But once I started to relax I realized that these were the same wonderful people I had been talking to for years and I started to calm down. The subsequent Jonifests were a lot more fun after the ice was broken. I do my best not to miss one now (wallet permitting!!!) Love, Sue - -----Original Message----- From: Mark Scott [mailto:mark.travis@frontier.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 9:51 PM To: Susan E. McNamara ; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Noisey.vice.com: Both Sides, Now and Then: What Joni Mitchell's Songs can teach us about the art of aging ... Agreed, about 'Sweet Bird', Sue. That last quote in the article is practically lifted from that song. What gets me is that Joni was in her early *30s* when she wrote 'Sweet Bird'! At 61 those words 'Out on some borderline, some mark of in-between, I lay down golden in time and woke up vanishing' have gained so much meaning for me. It seems like nothing more than a short nap in the sun since I was in my 20s and the earth spins and the sky rushes faster and faster all the time. To give this post a bit of lightness, I want to say that I certainly never meant to censor anybody's fond memories of Jonifests or any camaraderie that has developed on the JMDL over the years. Someone posted a picture from the one bona fide Jonifest I attended at Ashara's in 1999 and it made me nostalgic. I know how much joy it has brought to many of your lives to be able to gather with like-minded souls in that way. Apart from other practical concerns, I'm afraid 'I'm just living on nerves and feelings with a weak and a lazy mind' in too many ways. I could have been more forthcoming that weekend in Topsfield in 1999 but, mostly because I longed in my heart to be able to get up on stage and perform and because I don't play an instrument I couldn't, I'm afraid I distanced myself. So much for hindsight. Confession time is over. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Susan E. McNamara Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 1:12 PM To: 'joni@smoe.org' Subject: Noisey.vice.com: Both Sides, Now and Then: What Joni Mitchell's Songs can teach us about the art of aging ... Good article, especially since it looks like he did some research on JM.com (especially the covers page). I think the best lesson in aging is Sweet Bird (although BSN is good, too!) http://tinyurl.com/pkfg6tz Sue Tierney McNamara Email: sem8@cornell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 19:00:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Clint Norwood Subject: Re: Noisey.vice.com: Both Sides, Now and Then: What Joni Mitchell's Songs can teach us about the art of aging ... I understand about today's "new" music. I do of course hear new stuff I like, its just not the stuff that is most popular. Many popular songs these days are so dumb lyrically (Im calling out Beyonce, Nikki Minaj) that it is hard to judge them without laughing out loud or crying depending on the mood. Many lyrics repeated over and over "She a hoe, she a hoe" etc. The thing I notice about some less than impressive millennials is that they treat music like it is something they wear or a "style." It really reminds me a lot of the "controversy" we had there when Katy Perry suggested in her older years she'd just pick up a guitar and be like a Joni Mitchell. As if it (the art) is just a new sweater she can throw on. I think music meant more to me when I was growing up but there are so many things youngsters are brain-controlled on I cannot honestly compare my youth to theirs at all. On Thursday, July 30, 2015 12:50 PM, Susan E. McNamara wrote: My daughter has Blue in her iphone but her main gal is Brittany Howard of Alabama Shakes!!! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 12:20 PM To: Susan E. McNamara ; Bob.Muller@fluor.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Noisey.vice.com: Both Sides, Now and Then: What Joni Mitchell's Songs can teach us about the art of aging ... I'm not sure, in general, if music means to the younger generations what it meant to us who were kids in the 60s and 70s, even 80s, I guess. There has for a long time been a certain exploitation of youth and their tastes but moreso these days. So many songs sound alike and it's not just because my brain won't accept it. There have been many articles on this: nothing succeeds like success, or maybe nothing succeeds like excess. And everyone/everything has a brand and they even offer courses on the consumer society. If people will stand in line overnight to buy a pair of running shoes for $200, then I think we're doomed. Right now my son is out in Victoria BC and he feels a bit lonely now and then. He's close to the ocean and he likes to go down and watch the waves. I decided to send him some Joni-in-BC type songs to suit that mood. He told me he had wanted to get into listening to her stuff but that he had been so turned off by a music teacher they had back in middle school who kept playing "Big Yellow Taxi" over and over again (I don't know if it was Joni's version, or the Counting Crows one, or if the teacher played it himself on guitar). That is pretty much Joni's only song many of them have ever heard. But then, he went on to say how much he liked Glen Hansard's version of "Coyote", which made him interested in Joni's stuff. I sent him some of the FTR stuff (the title track, "Banquet", "Lesson in survival","Let the wind carry me") as well as some of the "Shine" stuff (once again, the title track, "One week last summer" and "This place.") Any more would be overkill. I'll wait to see if h! e asks for more. Feel free to rant any time. Someone has to! - ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan E. McNamara To: "Bob.Muller@fluor.com" Cc: "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 11:46 AM Subject: RE: Noisey.vice.com: Both Sides, Now and Then: What JoniB Mitchell's Songs can teach us about the art of aging ... Yeah, there were a couple of flubs but whenever someone says bmy mom likes Joni Mitchellb I know they are probably millennials with no clue what music during the 70s meant to people.B Do you think music means the same thing to people today or are my brain cells different because of the lifestyle I was imbedded in at the time?B Anyway, the only thing that really bothers me about how millennials talk about Joni Mitchell today is when the only song they ever mention is Big Yellow Taxi.B I am really getting sick of Big Yellow Taxi.B I think it should be banned, kind of like how the music store banned Stairway to Heaven on Waynebs World.B Clearly itbs a great song, but why donbt we try getting sick of hearing Hejira or Night Ride Home. Sue ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 19:11:00 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Noisey.vice.com: Both Sides, Now and Then: What Joni Mitchell's Songs can teach us about the art of aging ... I agree Clint ... every dog has its day, and who is to say ours is better than theirs. I'm all for them getting the chance to change the world for the better, whatever music they listen to. :-) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Clint Norwood Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 3:01 PM To: Susan E. McNamara ; Catherine McKay ; Bob.Muller@fluor.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Noisey.vice.com: Both Sides, Now and Then: What Joni Mitchell's Songs can teach us about the art of aging ... I understand about today's "new" music. I do of course hear new stuff I like, its just not the stuff that is most popular. Many popular songs these days are so dumb lyrically (Im calling out Beyonce, Nikki Minaj) that it is hard to judge them without laughing out loud or crying depending on the mood. Many lyrics repeated over and over "She a hoe, she a hoe" etc. The thing I notice about some less than impressive millennials is that they treat music like it is something they wear or a "style." It really reminds me a lot of the "controversy" we had there when Katy Perry suggested in her older years she'd just pick up a guitar and be like a Joni Mitchell. As if it (the art) is just a new sweater she can throw on. I think music meant more to me when I was growing up but there are so many things youngsters are brain-controlled on I cannot honestly compare my youth to theirs at all. On Thursday, July 30, 2015 12:50 PM, Susan E. McNamara wrote: My daughter has Blue in her iphone but her main gal is Brittany Howard of Alabama Shakes!!! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 12:20 PM To: Susan E. McNamara ; Bob.Muller@fluor.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Noisey.vice.com: Both Sides, Now and Then: What Joni Mitchell's Songs can teach us about the art of aging ... I'm not sure, in general, if music means to the younger generations what it meant to us who were kids in the 60s and 70s, even 80s, I guess. There has for a long time been a certain exploitation of youth and their tastes but moreso these days. So many songs sound alike and it's not just because my brain won't accept it. There have been many articles on this: nothing succeeds like success, or maybe nothing succeeds like excess. And everyone/everything has a brand and they even offer courses on the consumer society. If people will stand in line overnight to buy a pair of running shoes for $200, then I think we're doomed. Right now my son is out in Victoria BC and he feels a bit lonely now and then. He's close to the ocean and he likes to go down and watch the waves. I decided to send him some Joni-in-BC type songs to suit that mood. He told me he had wanted to get into listening to her stuff but that he had been so turned off by a music teacher they had back in middle school who kept playing "Big Yellow Taxi" over and over again (I don't know if it was Joni's version, or the Counting Crows one, or if the teacher played it himself on guitar). That is pretty much Joni's only song many of them have ever heard. But then, he went on to say how much he liked Glen Hansard's version of "Coyote", which made him interested in Joni's stuff. I sent him some of the FTR stuff (the title track, "Banquet", "Lesson in survival","Let the wind carry me") as well as some of the "Shine" stuff (once again, the title track, "One week last summer" and "This place.") Any more would be overkill. I'll wait to see if h! e asks for more. Feel free to rant any time. Someone has to! - ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan E. McNamara To: "Bob.Muller@fluor.com" Cc: "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 11:46 AM Subject: RE: Noisey.vice.com: Both Sides, Now and Then: What JoniB Mitchell's Songs can teach us about the art of aging ... Yeah, there were a couple of flubs but whenever someone says bmy mom likes Joni Mitchellb I know they are probably millennials with no clue what music during the 70s meant to people.B Do you think music means the same thing to people today or are my brain cells different because of the lifestyle I was imbedded in at the time?B Anyway, the only thing that really bothers me about how millennials talk about Joni Mitchell today is when the only song they ever mention is Big Yellow Taxi.B I am really getting sick of Big Yellow Taxi.B I think it should be banned, kind of like how the music store banned Stairway to Heaven on Waynebs World.B Clearly itbs a great song, but why donbt we try getting sick of hearing Hejira or Night Ride Home. Sue ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 15:46:35 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Noisey.vice.com: Both Sides, Now and Then: What Joni Mitchell's Songs can teach us about the art of aging ... Yeah, there were a couple of flubs but whenever someone says bmy mom likes Joni Mitchellb I know they are probably millennials with no clue what music during the 70s meant to people. Do you think music means the same thing to people today or are my brain cells different because of the lifestyle I was imbedded in at the time? Anyway, the only thing that really bothers me about how millennials talk about Joni Mitchell today is when the only song they ever mention is Big Yellow Taxi. I am really getting sick of Big Yellow Taxi. I think it should be banned, kind of like how the music store banned Stairway to Heaven on Waynebs World. Clearly itbs a great song, but why donbt we try getting sick of hearing Hejira or Night Ride Home. Sue From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com [mailto:Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 10:15 AM To: Susan E. McNamara Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Noisey.vice.com: Both Sides, Now and Then: What Joni Mitchell's Songs can teach us about the art of aging ... Well silly me...I seem to remember an album after Clouds and before Blue...yeah it was the one with Big Yellow Taxi on it which you just mentioned! I won't even mention his calling her first album "Joni Mitchell" although I suppose I just did. It was kind of cool to see that the writer utilized my Undercover site, have to say. Bob NP: Moby Grape, "Never Again (Sweet Ride)" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any and all computers and other devices. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #742 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe