From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #587 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, April 13 2015 Volume 2014 : Number 587 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Fountain of sorrow/Now Joni and Laura ["Gary Z." ] Re: Globe and mail [lcs4bike@yahoo.com] Re: Fountain of sorrow ["Mark Scott" ] Daisy & Joni's Hospital Stay ["Laura O." ] Re: Globe and Mail ["mep chorus.net" ] Fountain of Sorrow [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #1987 ["mep chorus.net" ] RE: Missing Joni [Barbara Sullivan ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 15:06:31 -0400 From: "Gary Z." Subject: Re: Fountain of sorrow/Now Joni and Laura From what I understand, I think that Laura Nyro's influence was responsible for Joni really getting into playing the piano again. I know that the only quote I recall was something to the effect of Joni saying "Laura Nyro you can lump me in with, I looked to her and took direction from her." (or something close to that). I also remember someone asking Joni about Laura and her only saying "Well, Laura was a strange girl...." but nothing more. I think Joni might or could have had a hard time relating to Laura's views of music, in terms of interpreting music in colors and textures; since Laura had been said to have synesthesia; Laura also had very strange idiosyncracies and child-like views of the world and Laura wasn't at all motivated by the music business as her career matured, nor did she really like it much (not liking the music biz WAS something she did have in common with Joni). She really didn't care if her albums were hits or not; played on the radio or not; she was only interested in doing her own thing, and creating music she loved and believed, and thought might touch others. Joni is and was very music business savvy and knew the channels that had to be followed to be successful even if she didn't like them. Example: Joni's smart handling of her publishing. I think David Geffen took a lot of the rights and monies from Laura's early, successful songs when he was her agent. He also wanted her to be the first artist he signed to his new Asylum label and even publicized it before he ever (never) got to actually sign her; and it broke his heart when he found out that Laura re-signed with Columbia and didn't even talk to him about it first. So, I don't think it was a personal problem that Joni had with Laura. Joni really liked Laura's music; it was Laura's odd way of relating to music and life, and just "being a strange girl" that I think Joni was a bit taken aback by. I don't think Joni was ever jealous of Laura. That's my off the top of my head take on Laura and Joni's relationship. If I'm ever so lucky before I go, I'd love to sit with Joni and really ask her about Laura; just because I love them both so much! Best regards, Gary Z. On 4/13/2015 11:27 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: And, quoting Joni: "I always thought the women of song don't get along, and I don't know why that is. I had a hard time with Laura Nyro also, and Joan Baez would have broken my leg if she could, or at least that's the way it felt as a person coming out [on to the music scene]. I never felt that same sense of competition from men." She added: "[Joplin] was very competitive with me, very insecure. She was the queen of rock'n'roll one year and then Rolling Stone made me the queen of rock'n'roll and she hated me after that." Maybe there's more, but this doesn't sound like people hating one another, as much as insecurity leading to envy/jealousy. Joni has also expressed admiration for Laura Nyro. When she says she "had a hard time with Laura," I read that not so much as actually giving each other a hard time but feeling insecure because, in a world dominated by male rock stars, there was a feeling that only a select few women could enter that club. You know how it is when you have a friend or relative whom you love dearly and yet you can still feel jealous of them sometimes for having something you don't have. http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/make-war-not-peace-mitchell-attacks-joan-break-your-legs-baez-770878.html Make war, not peace: ... Joni Mitchell and Joan Baez may have strummed their way through the golden age of the peaceniks, p... View on www.independen... Preview by Yahoo ________________________________ From: Marion Leffler To: Mark Scott Cc: Catherine McKay ; jmdl Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2015 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Fountain of sorrow Thanks Catherine and Mark for your responses. What I was really wondering was whether the said animosity between Joan B and Joni was actually a fact since on the same album Joan B recorded two Joni-related songs, one about her and one together with her. I totally agree with you that it does not matter who a song is about as long as it has some general emotion or experience that can be shared. Sorry for not having made myself quite clear. Hoping everybody is having a happy weekend, Marion 2015-04-12 2:18 GMT+02:00 Mark Scott : >> I may have heard Jackson's version of the song once or twice. It's the >> Joan Baez version that I also am familiar with. I think if Joan liked the >> song, it wouldn't matter to her who it was about or if it was about anybody >> in particular. The words take on whatever meaning you take away from them. >> I'm not a Jackson Browne fan but the song has some nice turns of phrase and >> I think most people who look back on certain relationships in their lives >> can relate to it. I also think I find more in it now than when I was a >> callow young man of 20 or so. 'Though the future's there for anyone to >> change, still you know it seems it would be easier sometimes to change the >> past'. >> >> Mark in Seattle >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay >> Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 4:36 AM >> To: Marion Leffler ; jmdl >> Subject: Re: Fountain of sorrow >> >> >> Hello, Marion! >> I had that same Joan Baez album, which is where I first heard the song >> "Fountain of Sorrow." I'm guessing that Joan B just liked the song without >> knowing who it was about or even if it was about a particular person. I'm >> quite sure Jackson Browne didn't reveal who it was about for a long time. >> Sometimes you just like a song for what it says to you without knowing if >> it's based in actual history or just resonates with you somehow. >> From: Marion Leffler >> To: jmdl >> Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 3:30 AM >> Subject: Fountain of sorrow >> >> >> I guess you all are aware of the cover Joan Baez did on her album Diamonds >> and Rust. If this song is about Joni, how come JB covered it? As I recall >> Joni and Joan are supposed to be anything but friends, according to this >> list. On the other hand, they did Dida together, very beautifully too. So I >> am left wondering... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 19:02:31 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Fountain of sorrow I agree Dave that this seems to be her way of operating. She is very successful and the obvious outpouring of love on twitter and facebook since her illness attest this. It's interesting though, that the Philly article said that even her most ardent fans would say that her greatest work was decades behind her. Yeah, she's 71 ... she's been making music for 50 years ... Why are these articles dissing her like this? What is she doing/not doing and does it matter? I want to bring up Dylan but I won't ... the female/male thing infuriates me. - -----Original Message----- From: Dave Blackburn [mailto:beatntrack@att.net] Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 2:10 PM To: Susan E. McNamara Cc: Anita G; Catherine McKay; Marion Leffler; Mark Scott; jmdl Subject: Re: Fountain of sorrow In my view, Joni made up her mind early on that she stood alone; it became her shield and her weapon throughout her life. This gave her a pre-made reason why she could not be understood by her peers or by critics, with the men baffled by the originality, and the women jealous of her skill and attractiveness. She drew strength and ultimately loneliness from this self-view and it stands strong as ever today. It may have felt this way to her, but in reality many people get her skill and brilliance, male and female, and she is not alone in having beauty and brains in this very large world. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 23:17:34 -0500 From: lcs4bike@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Globe and mail Anita wrote: I was so deeply moved that I cried after reading Mary's Christmas Tree post and now, after reading this article, I am off to vomit. What an up and down day. Pretty ordinary, really," Hi Anita, Yes, I agree, ordinary for all on this rotating planet where the weather is always changing! We each are unique environments packaged by the ever changing earth environment of which we are part. So ups and downs and all arounds are very ordinary. And considering that each of us is an environment, there could be all kinds of invaders from the outer space beyond out bodies. Parasites, aliens, or friendly symbionts, living or non-living, there are many more inhabitants of each of us than we can imagine. Joni is highly intelligent, honest, and human so whatever she says or thinks is interesting to me... and that includes about Morgellon's. I teach future physicians, and I hope coinciding with the vast amount of knowns I pass on to them they also learn to be good observers and thinkers in dealing with the as of yet unknowns. We are all just "particles of change... orbiting around the sun." Wow, Joni!!! Thank you for sharing your beautiful insights! You have given us so much! I hope you feel our love right now. That's my prayer. Love, Laura Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2015 17:18:46 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Fountain of sorrow I may have heard Jackson's version of the song once or twice. It's the Joan Baez version that I also am familiar with. I think if Joan liked the song, it wouldn't matter to her who it was about or if it was about anybody in particular. The words take on whatever meaning you take away from them. I'm not a Jackson Browne fan but the song has some nice turns of phrase and I think most people who look back on certain relationships in their lives can relate to it. I also think I find more in it now than when I was a callow young man of 20 or so. 'Though the future's there for anyone to change, still you know it seems it would be easier sometimes to change the past'. Mark in Seattle - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 4:36 AM To: Marion Leffler ; jmdl Subject: Re: Fountain of sorrow Hello, Marion! I had that same Joan Baez album, which is where I first heard the song "Fountain of Sorrow." I'm guessing that Joan B just liked the song without knowing who it was about or even if it was about a particular person. I'm quite sure Jackson Browne didn't reveal who it was about for a long time. Sometimes you just like a song for what it says to you without knowing if it's based in actual history or just resonates with you somehow. From: Marion Leffler To: jmdl Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 3:30 AM Subject: Fountain of sorrow I guess you all are aware of the cover Joan Baez did on her album Diamonds and Rust. If this song is about Joni, how come JB covered it? As I recall Joni and Joan are supposed to be anything but friends, according to this list. On the other hand, they did Dida together, very beautifully too. So I am left wondering... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 09:27:33 -0500 From: "Laura O." Subject: Daisy & Joni's Hospital Stay I'm so glad you re-posted this because if Kakki had posted this on the JMDL I missed it. And altho I can see alot on facebook NOT being a member, I couldn't access the link because of that reason. I've read some of Daisy's responses, sometimes heated & defensive, on YouTube pages so I know she's out there (whether people choose to believe she's Joni's grandchild or not) I was excited to hear what she had to say. Having worked in a hospital, altho not a nurse, but behind the scene of those hard-working professionals an older person can be put in the Intensive Care unit for even a small procedure that a younger person may go home that same day. A 71 year old woman, and taking into consideration present AND PAST health issues, would want to be given 24/7 observation which is done in ICU. Babies and senior citizens can get dehydrated and not recover, and be gone just-like-that! Also, being she smokes.... not being able to smoke for a given period of time due to an immediate health issue could cause her body to go thru serious withdrawels and that would also have to be dealt with and how that affects her heart and other organs and extending a hospital stay. ANY procedure where one has to go under anesthesia is ALWAYS risky (look at the forms you need to sign). So if it's serious or minor I'm glad she's being taken care of and watched. Altho, at this point she could have been in and out of instensive care within 24 hours and is being taken care of in a private room until the time the doctors feel it's safe she can go home. It's all speculation. But the sooner she can safely go home the better, because one can also pick-up deadly infections (Staff) in a hospital. Who was it that reminded us Joni doesn't like hospitals/doctors here? yeah good reminder, I had forgotten. But, hopefully, being surrounded by her friends/family, she's feeling the love and getting some well-deserved rest! But it's good to know that Daisy says she's progressing well. The fact she says it was a 'miracle' makes me believe something serious took place, or something serious somehow past over her and the doc's are making sure she's stable and were looking for something 'hidden'. There is a power to prayer, so the more of us praying for her, the better. I'm sure that some of those in her tight group of friends she has are doing so as well, if they are so inclined to pray. In the pictures of her appearances thru the years, I've observed many of her 'close friends' right next to her or in other photos of the events...so you know they are there with her even if they don't make her photo shots. This is a good article written by her make-up artist and close friend (altho now, sadly, deceased) Paul Starr. But the feeling from the writing is that Joni has quite the social life (hidden from the public) and likes the sense of 'community' where she lives. Even when seen, alone, in public eating in restaurants (as Kakki can confirm), she's not in a dark back corner with management keeping her hidden, but sitting in the open with her little dog, which of course grabs attention and invites conversation, and wouldn't one say Joni is an observer, people watcher? Perhaps she finds this relaxing as well as stimulating. I take comfort in knowing she's surrounded by trusted friends, younger ones and old ones. I think this is a great little interview, I not only get a peek into her make-up bag (I like knowing what skin care cream she uses HAHA) but I got a real sense of her private life and friendships. She may be reclusive from the press but she's no "I vant to be alone" Greta Garbo! I believe she needs and seeks stimulation from discussions and visiting with friends (and strangers) keeps her inspired. Read to the bottom... http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=1461&from=search Check out the article just posted in the LIBRARY. Reading it and all the links is an education about Morgellons. I think even if Joni's hospital stay has nothing to do with Morgellons she may be glad to hear it's stirring up interest and, even for a little while, would rather people become aware of it, discuss it and others speak out that they also have it, then what may truly be the cause of her hospitalization. http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2954 Laura **************************************** Fri, 10 Apr 2015 18:03:44 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Missing Joni Mary, It came to our attention earlier in the day, through our good friend Kakki, that Daisy, Joni's granddaughter, responded to a Facebook post on the Joni Mitchell FB page telling folks the following: Daisy Claire Gibb - for all that are worried, joni is recovering very well and is being considered a "miracle" i am a close relative of hers, and we are happy to say she is progressing well. 18 hrs * Unlike * 25 Daisy Claire Gibb illness has nothing to do with smoking 19 hrs * Unlike * 6 Daisy Claire Gibb i'm sure when she's out her statement will be said, at this time i can't tell anyone what she has. 19 hrs * Like * 6 Here's a link to the page, but you may not be able to see it if you are not a member of this FB group: http://tinyurl.com/o8pg33v ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 09:34:16 -0500 From: "mep chorus.net" Subject: Re: Globe and Mail Anne wrote: "One word - rubbish! What a dreadful piece of horrible writing. When I had endometriosis, nobody knew what it was and they thought it was "all in my head" - and it may well be with Morgellons. As for people avoiding artists and entertainers with undesirable tendencies, seriously? What century does this guy live in???" Anne, I couldn't agree more. Funny how most of these diseases deemed by medical experts to be "all in one's head" usually affect women! My mother, who was a nun for ten years as a very young woman, said that the graveyard at the convent was full of sisters who had died of imagination. I do agree that we, as a society, need to reduce the stigma often associated with psychiatric illnesses, big time. But I'm concerned with the tendency of medical science to simply write things off that it doesn't yet understand. I'm not convinced that Morgellon's is a psychiatric illness. More to the point, we have no idea whether Joni's hospitalization had anything at all to do with Morgellon's. Take care, Mary. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 21:56:09 -0400 From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Fountain of Sorrow I remember a friend in college who was from California telling me around 1975 or 1976 that Jackson and Joni made some kind of deal to each write a song about sorrow. Joni wrote Don't Interrupt the Sorrow, and Jackson came up with this one. Paul Ivice On Behalf Of Robert Sartorius Subject: RE: Fountain of Sorrow I emailed this a couple of weeks ago, but I have no indication that it went through. So, I am sending it again (with apologies if this is duplicative) I was travelling, travelling, travelling on a not-so-lonely road to Margaritaville with my daughter and 8-month old grandson last month, listening to some CD's on "shuffle", when I was struck by the lyrics to Jackson Browne's "Fountain of Sorrow". I had heard the song many times before, but for some reason this listening kindled in me an epiphany of sorts - that it "must" have been written about Joni. When I got home a few days later, I googled it on Wikipedia, which reported that it was, indeed, generally attributed to being about Browne's brief affair with Joni circa 1972. However, when I re-visited the "Songs About Joni" section in JoniMitchell.com, I did not see it listed there. I would welcome Simon Montgomery's insights about this song - and, of course, any comments from other listers as well. Bobsart Jackson Browne - Fountain Of Sorrow - 1974 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 17:19:43 -0500 From: "mep chorus.net" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #1987 Becky, That's what I had been thinking, too. But whatever the illness: Joni, get well soon! You don't owe us anything, but I'd much rather live in a world that has you in it. Mary. On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 4:26 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > JMDL Digest Friday, April 10 2015 Volume 2014 : Number 1987 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Joni [Rebecca Alexander < > becky_alexander@msn.com>] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 17:25:01 -0400 > From: Rebecca Alexander > Subject: Joni > > It is good news to hear Joni is doing well. I suspect I have wondered is > she had a stroke--Not uncommon for long term smokers. And many can recover > if caught quickly. > Becky > > > Sent via the Samsung Galaxy NoteB. 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2014 #1987 > ****************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 14:42:28 -0400 From: Barbara Sullivan Subject: RE: Missing Joni Thanks for sharing!!> From: sem8@cornell.edu > To: joni2city@hotmail.com; joni@smoe.org > Subject: RE: Missing Joni > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 18:03:44 +0000 > > Mary, > > It came to our attention earlier in the day, through our good friend Kakki, that Daisy, Joni's granddaughter, responded to a Facebook post on the Joni Mitchell FB page telling folks the following: > > Daisy Claire Gibb - for all that are worried, joni is recovering very well and is being considered a "miracle" i am a close relative of hers, and we are happy to say she is progressing well. > 18 hrs * Unlike * 25 > > Daisy Claire Gibb illness has nothing to do with smoking > 19 hrs * Unlike * 6 > > Daisy Claire Gibb i'm sure when she's out her statement will be said, at this time i can't tell anyone what she has. > 19 hrs * Like * 6 > > Here's a link to the page, but you may not be able to see it if you are not a member of this FB group: > > http://tinyurl.com/o8pg33v > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Mary > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2015 1:45 PM > To: JONIMITCHELL DISCUSSION LIST > Subject: Missing Joni > > I'm as upset and concerned as everyone. This long hospital stay has me thinking Joni is not feeling well at all. I have been wishing her a speedy recovery since I heard the news. > > GREETINGS FROM THE TRIPLE M Down a gravel road, where the barb wire > meets the sky. MARY M. MORRIS ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #587 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe