From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #424 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, December 13 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 424 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Said or sad? ["Susan E. McNamara" ] RE: Said or sad? ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Re: Said or sad? [Richard Flynn ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 19:19:38 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Said or sad? Thanks Catherine. If we ever get a straight answer from the horse's mouth, and its "said" I will not be "sad." :-) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 2:05 PM To: Susan E. McNamara; Jim L'Hommedieu Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Said or sad? I've obviously not paid a lot of attention to the words of this song because it all sounds brand new to me. This has never been my favourite Joni song. The girl does have a way with words, though, doesn't she? I'll have to have another look and listen to that song. I'd lean towards "so much said" (because that's how I hear it, and sometimes silence says a lot, and who truly listens? Most of us are just waiting for our chance to spew our own words!) but I agree that you can say "so much sad" and that it could very well be interpreted that way and make sense. Joni herself has said, "What does it mean to you?" I know for a fact that there are plenty of things I've heard in my own way (some would say "wrong") and I'm sometimes disappointed to find out that what I heard in my own way was actually said in a different way. In other words, don't expect this to be resolved. From: Susan E. McNamara To: Jim L'Hommedieu Cc: "joni@smoe.org" Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 10:20 AM Subject: RE: Said or sad? I was thinking of it in context of the whole song: Where do Songs To Aging Children Come from .... Some come dark and strange like dying [like from] crows and ravens whistling [like from] lines of weeping, strings of crying [like at a funeral] So much sad/said in listening [the feeling of sadness comes from listening to these songs/so much is said about these songs from listening] I've also thought about the Canadian dialect too because Joni's rhyming sequencing is not always usual: Strange Ravens Strings Said Come Crows Crying sad Hmmm ... I'm not convinced yet ... carry on.B :-) Susan Tierney McNamara email:B sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: Jim L'Hommedieu [mailto:jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 12:12 AM To: Susan E. McNamara Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Said or sad? Sue, I think she said, "said".B First, at the time, she had only been off the prairie a short time, eh? The prairie pronunciation of "about" is very different from the one heard in Ithaca too.B They do funny things with vowels up there.B I think the A sound in said comes out sounding like "egg" to my Ohioan ears. Secondly, I think that "sad" is overtly poetic, which would be a little unusual for Joni. (Although she was flowery in the early days, so who knows?) Lastly, Said/listening makes an interesting dichotomy and you know how she ***lives*** in duality. Interesting question though. Sometimes I like to ponder this stuff. For a long time, I thought she was deliberately ambiguous.B Now, I'm uncertain of the ambiguity.B (!) There are scores of things like that in her songs, unlike Steve Miller.B You know: > dance, dance, dance > let's make some ro- > nance Nothing unclear there.B I hope Malka has a comment. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 20:53:25 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Said or sad? Technically, yes. I'm willing to let it go now. :-) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: Richard Flynn [mailto:rflynn@frontiernet.net] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 3:49 PM To: Susan E. McNamara Cc: Catherine McKay; Jim L'Hommedieu; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Said or sad? The lyrics in the gatefold of Clouds says "said." Isn't that the horse's mouth? Richard Flynn Professor of Literature Georgia Southern University https://sites.google.com/a/georgiasouthern.edu/rflynn http://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RichardFlynn > On Dec 12, 2014, at 2:19 PM, Susan E. McNamara wrote: > > Thanks Catherine. If we ever get a straight answer from the horse's > mouth, and its "said" I will not be "sad." :-) > > Susan Tierney McNamara > email: sem8@cornell.edu > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of > Catherine McKay > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 2:05 PM > To: Susan E. McNamara; Jim L'Hommedieu > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Said or sad? > > I've obviously not paid a lot of attention to the words of this song because it all sounds brand new to me. This has never been my favourite Joni song. The girl does have a way with words, though, doesn't she? I'll have to have another look and listen to that song. > > I'd lean towards "so much said" (because that's how I hear it, and sometimes silence says a lot, and who truly listens? Most of us are just waiting for our chance to spew our own words!) but I agree that you can say "so much sad" and that it could very well be interpreted that way and make sense. Joni herself has said, "What does it mean to you?" I know for a fact that there are plenty of things I've heard in my own way (some would say "wrong") and I'm sometimes disappointed to find out that what I heard in my own way was actually said in a different way. > In other words, don't expect this to be resolved. > > From: Susan E. McNamara > To: Jim L'Hommedieu > Cc: "joni@smoe.org" > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 10:20 AM > Subject: RE: Said or sad? > > I was thinking of it in context of the whole song: > > Where do Songs To Aging Children Come from .... > > Some come dark and strange like dying > [like from] crows and ravens whistling [like from] lines of weeping, > strings of crying [like at a funeral] So much sad/said in listening > [the feeling of sadness comes from listening to these songs/so much is > said about these songs from listening] > > I've also thought about the Canadian dialect too because Joni's rhyming sequencing is not always usual: > > Strange > Ravens > Strings > Said > > Come > Crows > Crying > sad > > Hmmm ... I'm not convinced yet ... carry on.B :-) > > Susan Tierney McNamara > email:B sem8@cornell.edu > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim L'Hommedieu [mailto:jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 12:12 AM > To: Susan E. McNamara > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Said or sad? > > Sue, I think she said, "said".B First, at the time, she had only been off the prairie a short time, eh? > > The prairie pronunciation of "about" is very different from the one heard in Ithaca too.B They do funny things with vowels up there.B I think the A sound in said comes out sounding like "egg" to my Ohioan ears. > > Secondly, I think that "sad" is overtly poetic, which would be a > little unusual for Joni. (Although she was flowery in the early days, > so who knows?) > > Lastly, Said/listening makes an interesting dichotomy and you know how > she > ***lives*** in duality. > > Interesting question though. > > Sometimes I like to ponder this stuff. For a long time, I thought she > was deliberately ambiguous.B Now, I'm uncertain of the ambiguity.B > (!) > > There are scores of things like that in her songs, unlike Steve > Miller.B You > know: > >> dance, dance, dance >> let's make some ro- >> nance > > Nothing unclear there.B I hope Malka has a comment. > > Jim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 15:48:36 -0500 From: Richard Flynn Subject: Re: Said or sad? The lyrics in the gatefold of Clouds says "said." Isn't that the horse's mouth? Richard Flynn Professor of Literature Georgia Southern University https://sites.google.com/a/georgiasouthern.edu/rflynn http://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RichardFlynn > On Dec 12, 2014, at 2:19 PM, Susan E. McNamara wrote: > > Thanks Catherine. If we ever get a straight answer from the horse's mouth, and its "said" I will not be "sad." :-) > > Susan Tierney McNamara > email: sem8@cornell.edu > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 2:05 PM > To: Susan E. McNamara; Jim L'Hommedieu > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Said or sad? > > I've obviously not paid a lot of attention to the words of this song because it all sounds brand new to me. This has never been my favourite Joni song. The girl does have a way with words, though, doesn't she? I'll have to have another look and listen to that song. > > I'd lean towards "so much said" (because that's how I hear it, and sometimes silence says a lot, and who truly listens? Most of us are just waiting for our chance to spew our own words!) but I agree that you can say "so much sad" and that it could very well be interpreted that way and make sense. Joni herself has said, "What does it mean to you?" I know for a fact that there are plenty of things I've heard in my own way (some would say "wrong") and I'm sometimes disappointed to find out that what I heard in my own way was actually said in a different way. > In other words, don't expect this to be resolved. > > From: Susan E. McNamara > To: Jim L'Hommedieu > Cc: "joni@smoe.org" > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 10:20 AM > Subject: RE: Said or sad? > > I was thinking of it in context of the whole song: > > Where do Songs To Aging Children Come from .... > > Some come dark and strange like dying > [like from] crows and ravens whistling > [like from] lines of weeping, strings of crying [like at a funeral] So much sad/said in listening [the feeling of sadness comes from listening to these songs/so much is said about these songs from listening] > > I've also thought about the Canadian dialect too because Joni's rhyming sequencing is not always usual: > > Strange > Ravens > Strings > Said > > Come > Crows > Crying > sad > > Hmmm ... I'm not convinced yet ... carry on.B :-) > > Susan Tierney McNamara > email:B sem8@cornell.edu > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim L'Hommedieu [mailto:jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 12:12 AM > To: Susan E. McNamara > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Said or sad? > > Sue, I think she said, "said".B First, at the time, she had only been off the prairie a short time, eh? > > The prairie pronunciation of "about" is very different from the one heard in Ithaca too.B They do funny things with vowels up there.B I think the A sound in said comes out sounding like "egg" to my Ohioan ears. > > Secondly, I think that "sad" is overtly poetic, which would be a little unusual for Joni. (Although she was flowery in the early days, so who knows?) > > Lastly, Said/listening makes an interesting dichotomy and you know how she > ***lives*** in duality. > > Interesting question though. > > Sometimes I like to ponder this stuff. For a long time, I thought she was deliberately ambiguous.B Now, I'm uncertain of the ambiguity.B (!) > > There are scores of things like that in her songs, unlike Steve Miller.B You > know: > >> dance, dance, dance >> let's make some ro- >> nance > > Nothing unclear there.B I hope Malka has a comment. > > Jim ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #424 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe