From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #404 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, December 1 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 404 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Bidini "letter" [kbhla@fastmail.fm] Dave Bidini's open letter [Paul Ivice ] Joni, the archetype, and being there [jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] I'm thrilled [Laurie Antonioli ] Re: I'm thrilled [Gerald Kent ] Joni in Vulture [Paul Ivice ] Bidini open letter ["David J. Phillips" ] facebook joni [Jeff Clark ] Re: That Joni Mitchell group on Facebook [Victor Johnson ] RE: New letter to joni Mitchell, Bidini [ingrid lochrenberg ] Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #1500 [malka marom ] Woops left out Taylor [Laura Stanley ] Re: New letter to joni Mitchell, Bidini [Anita Gabrielle ] Re: New Library item: An open letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:40:29 -0800 From: kbhla@fastmail.fm Subject: Bidini "letter" I thought Bidini's "letter" was especially disgusting because he consciously misquoted, misstated and took out of context Joni's words from recent interviews. If one is going to have a good rant, at least base it on something that was actually said, with no doubt of context. It is a pet peeve of mine whether the person being misquoted is Joni Mitchell or anyone else. If he really cares about her so much and felt so concerned about her attitude, why not send her a private, rather than attention seeking public, heartfelt letter? I presume he is bright enough to understand the nuances of context, so his actions seems deliberate here. Then, since it is so over the top, I considered the possibility that this might be some kind of bad parody that didn't give us enough "tells" to recognize the satire. It definitely should be included in the Joni database of articles. That way, if he reconsiders his rant someday when he is older and wiser and wishes he could erase it, it will remain there for all to see in "posterity." Haha! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 22:54:46 -0500 From: Paul Ivice Subject: Dave Bidini's open letter On 29 Nov 2014, at 21:53, TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com wrote: > Title: An open letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini > Publication: National Post > Date: 2014.11.28 written, but > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2874 It's a little more strongly worded than I would have sic, but for the most part it captures my sentiments. I still love Joni's music, but I am liking her less and less and she pursues the accolades and credit she thinks she deserves by denigrating contemporaries and alienating friends. One of the reasons I don't like Dog Eat Dog and most of her music that followed is that when I sensed that Joni's her preachiness and apparent She is not helping herself or her image with her recent interviews. There is a group of her fans that think she can do no wrong and will support their idol regardless, but that group is shrinking, not growing. Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 22:31:16 -0500 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: Joni, the archetype, and being there Yeah, and I'd take that an (obvious) step further. In the pbs film, someone said that the rock mythology had already exalted the California flower child/ beauty with long blonde hair. To people like me, Joni (unwittingly) fit the mold. He said something like "The fact that Joni was both the beauty AND the songwriter was a very powerful myth for people." Jim Mark in Seattle (another talented writer on the JMDL) said in part, > > I can see the parallel. Joni came along when cultural shifts had created an environment that was ready to embrace her persona and music. She had put in all of that time playing the coffee houses and working those circuits to practice her art so that by the time she recorded 'Song To a Seagull' she already had a considerable catalog of songs and had become an accomplished guitarist and singer.> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:42:13 -0500 From: Laurie Antonioli Subject: I'm thrilled that we've seen so much of Joni lately, that everyone is talking about her - - good, bad or strange - whatever - there's heaps of people who never "got" Joni and there's many others whose lives have been deeply impacted by her. I'm happy she's out and about. I'm glad she's speaking her mind. And...I think that complex people are complex. There's no black and white here and the subtle shades are what she captures as an artist. The "art" and the "artist" are not always "the same." Artists are humans that are flawed, like everyone else. Not gods or goddesses for goodness sake. So. She's been controversial all her career and that will continue. I think everyone should be more worried if she became docile. That would be a bad sign. Laurie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:55:56 -0500 From: Gerald Kent Subject: Re: I'm thrilled Absolutely Laurie. Maybe someday she will get the attention she deserves (although she may not want it!). Sent from my iPad > On Nov 30, 2014, at 3:42 PM, Laurie Antonioli wrote: > > that we've seen so much of Joni lately, that everyone is talking about her > - good, bad or strange - whatever - there's heaps of people who never "got" > Joni and there's many others whose lives have been deeply impacted by her. > > I'm happy she's out and about. I'm glad she's speaking her mind. And...I > think that complex people are complex. There's no black and white here and > the subtle shades are what she captures as an artist. The "art" and the > "artist" are not always "the same." Artists are humans that are flawed, > like everyone else. Not gods or goddesses for goodness sake. > > So. She's been controversial all her career and that will continue. I > think everyone should be more worried if she became docile. That would be > a bad sign. > > Laurie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 23:05:45 -0500 From: Paul Ivice Subject: Joni in Vulture From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Joni in Vulture I didn't see the particular comment so I am just making inferences here from what Mary wrote.B I have been reading a book called 'Outliers' by Malcolm Gladwell.B It is all about how extraordinarily successful people have usually been given more than genius or exceptional ability of some kind to get to where they are.B At one point he says that Bill Gates was born at the right time in history to be able to utilize his genius for computer programming and technology to get to where he is now.B The advances in computer technology were ripe for the development of the personal computer, the internet and all the rest when Gates began to put his ability to work. He was also born into a family that had the means to send him to Seattle's prestigious Lakeside School and connections with the University of Washington gave him and Paul Allen access to a computer that had the ability to share programming time.B So they were able to practice their programming skills, spending hours at the UW, totally immersed in their obsession. I can see the parallel.B Joni came along when cultural shifts had created an environment that was ready to embrace her persona and music.B She had put in all of that time playing the coffee houses and working those circuits to practice her art so that by the time she recorded 'Song To a Seagull' she already had a considerable catalog of songs and had become an accomplished guitarist and singer.B She landed in Laurel Canyon with a record contract. Later, Russ Kunkel suggested she should use jazz musicians to play her unconventional music.B Someone told her about the L.A. Express.B When she was looking for a bass player to give her the sounds she wanted, someone told her about Jaco.B She was in the right place to interact with people who would point her toward the musical elements she needed.B She had the genius, but had she been born ten years earlier, or never had the chance to develop it, and if events had not lined up in a certain way, that genius might never have blossomed or have been discovered. Mark in Seattle Mark, It's an interesting point of view, but I think in reality it is exactly the opposite. Gladwell is wrong. When researching a paper I wrote a long time ago on "The Eureka Effect" about how genius rises to the surface, the preponderance of the evidence and opinion I collected from case histories and experts was not that geniuses took advantages of unique opportunities, or cracks in their ecosystem, but that in most cases genius will out, regardless of circumstance or opportunity. These people have the innate ability and drive to overcome obstacles and figure out their path to success in spite of, not because of, special circumstances that Gladwell describes. Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:23:16 -0500 From: "David J. Phillips" Subject: Bidini open letter On 30/11/14 11:4555, malka marom wrote: > I found Dave Bidnibs letter disgusting, disgraceful way to to get attention to himself. and On 30/11/14 12:0036, Jamie Zubairi home wrote: > Yes, exactly who is he? > First: Malka, thank you from the bottom of my heart for your book, and for joining us here. Second, a response to Jamie's question. He is "a Canadian musician and writer. Originally from Etobicoke, Ontario, he was a founding member of the rock band Rheostatics, and currently performs with Bidiniband. In addition, he has published several books about music, travel and sports, and has written feature journalism pieces and columns for numerous Canadian magazines and newspapers." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Bidini Finally, I have to say I find that the letter pretty succinctly (even elegantly) describes much of Joni's recent efforts to "get attention to [her]self." "Haughty exceptionalism" is smack on the money. I find myself veering wildly between gaga adoration and deep concern for her well-being. I honor her; I am humble before her. Her circumstances - her genius, her vision, her stardom, her place in a specific historical moment - have clearly been almost incomparably difficult to negotiate. To have negotiated all of those things and forged them into great art is just... I am beyond words. She is a great great artist. But, wow. She actually seems delusional to me sometimes - when she speaks of being the only one paying attention to environmentalism in the early 70's, when she says that a male musician would never turn the volume down, when she talk about Western music as monolithic, when she obsessively turns the conversation to what others have said of her. Where is the heart, the humor, the humility in these recent interviews? I don't think it's absence is solely the work of malicious editors. There's only glimmers of it even in the clearly kind, intelligent, even reverent interviews. That reverence is not misplaced. She is unique; she is a genius - a disciplined and driven artist. But she also been showered with hard-earned praise and money. That she apparently can't accept that gracefully, indeed that she seems driven to cut and defend - it's like watching a loved one hurt themselves uncontrollably. djp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:28:16 +0000 (UTC) From: Jeff Clark Subject: facebook joni Victor wrote, <>B I understand Victor. I feel bad for saying Joni was "crabby", who isn't crabby sometimes? I was thinking of an episode of The Golden Girls where they start an Elvis Presley fan club. At a get together, they pass around a half-eaten pork chop in a little glass case, purportedly eaten by "the King" and Dorothy says, "this can't possibly be real. Elvis never would have left this much meat on a pork chop." And she is immediately expelled from the club. No disparaging remarks are to be tolerated, B the meeting ends, etc. I'm thinking of getting out some paint brushes and canvases, cranking up the Debussey and being Joni for a day.Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 05:17:46 -0800 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: That Joni Mitchell group on Facebook Simon and Catherine, The one I am referring to is just called Joni Mitchell, run by who knows who. Just recently, you would have thought the world was coming to an end because there was a discussion about Joni's smoking and it turned into this vicious battle about whether it's even right to "question" the merits of smoking, and how dare you "criticize" Joni Mitchell and it's none of your business, and yada yada yada... Just like those sections for comments you see after news stories that quickly deteriorate into complete chaos and oh, the humanity... On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 3:50 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: > Which one of the facebook groups? There are a few of them. The > jonimitchell.com one run by Les, or the "Joni Mitchell fans" one, run by who > knows who? I've learned to be very careful of both of them, to be honest, > since there are a lot of people on there who just seem to be adoring fans > and I think we're past that, where we can criticize and even be pissed off > at Joni and most people understand. I'm likewise grateful for this > community, where we have had our spats and, mostly years ago, flame wars but > where people are fine with saying whatever and usually no one gets angry > about it (unless someone forgets the njc on the No Joni Content posts.) We > seem to be able to understand others' points of view (most of the time). I'm > not sure what bothers me more about FB groups: the people who constantly say > things like, "I love you, Jonie" (I spelled that wrong on purpose) or the > ones who join a group (this goes for any group) for the sole purpose of > dissing whatever the page is about, or spamming it. The only thing I look at > on the FB pages is photos and links to articles, and I don't read all of > them either. > > > ________________________________ > From: Victor Johnson > To: Joni > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 2:39 AM > Subject: That Joni Mitchell group on Facebook > > I left that group today...I just couldn't take it anymore. Every > thread turning into heated diatribe back and forth over what we > "should" or "shouldn't" discuss and God forbid we say anything that > might be construed as criticism because that wouldn't be "nice" and on > and on and on... > > It is so refreshing to know that the JMDL is here. > > Thankful for this community. > > Victor in Bend > > NP: the faint sound of a train in the distance, the hear kicking on, > and a clock ticking somewhere ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 12:26:45 -0500 From: Mitch Rustad Subject: Re: New letter to joni Mitchell, Bidini this is all so so interesting and I must admit, I've caught myself silently asking some of the same things at times, and would LOVE to hear Joni's retort to this letter, I also love to hear her speak, and muse about how absurd most of pop culture/music is today, etc., just as Annie Lennox, Sinead o Connor and Better Midler have also done recently, but anyone as wise, intellectual, and brilliant as joni would relish the opportunity to examine these ideas and respond truthfully to this kind of observation Mitch in nyc On Nov 30, 2014, at 10:02 AM, Marianne Rizzo wrote: > Hi. Joni sweet people, > I just read this here letter. When you read it perhaps you will have the same > visceral feeling. . . I don't know. > > He ended the letter with " let the art speak for itself, because when you > speak I want to turn the sound off." So do that. Goodbye. > > He says to joni, "You make it seem like success in life is a miserable life, > which it is not. . . Shouldn't you feel lucky or blessed. . ." > > You may want to read this if you have not already. I think it is good for us > to read . . . but I ask, why would it appear on the joni Mitchell website? > Would these words have the value to be left there? > > For those who appreciate joni, we don't want to turn the sound off. She is > JONI who, at times, sees through a glass darkly. . . She has been in search > of truth and beauty and she speaks it. > She lives her duality and she expresses it in the most beautiful ways. She > decides "truth over fiction." She sees betrayal: > "greed it's the unraveling." She experiences and she expresses it. > > And why, what gets her there? She CARES. She cares about the > "woe -begotten -daughters; for the Japanese. > Let her speak, let her spit out her bitterness; "do you have eyes?" > "What have I done to you? " and you were not to blame" > And "the strong doing what they can and the weak suffering what they must." > > Joni doesn't "hate everything." She "sees like a child sees." She sees > truth. She IS truth. > (Okay. . . so she is/was in a bit of denial about her smoking) > > She sees all the beauty AND the greed and the pain; the gas leaks, the oil > spills. ("Enter the multitudes"). "Some get the gristle, some get the marrow > bone, some get nothing." Speaking truth, she has conviction. Thank you > joni. > > She's looked at clouds from both sides now. > Stardust golden. > Shake your fists like lightening," joni, "roar like a forest fire." > She plants her garden in the spring, she is Lakota. > I love you joni, > Marianne > > On 29 Nov 2014, at 21:53, TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com wrote: >> >> Title: An open letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini >> Publication: National Post >> Date: 2014.11.28 >> >> http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2874 Mitch Rustad www.mitchrustad.com 646-319-4282 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:22:56 -0500 From: "=?utf-8?B?Z3BrbTYyMDhAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ=?=" Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IE5ldyBMaWJyYXJ5IGl0ZW06IEFuIG9wZW4gbGV0dGVyIHRvI EpvbmkgTWl0?= =?utf-8?B?Y2hlbGwsIGZyb20gRGF2ZSBCaWRpbmk=?= It sort of hits home. Sent from my HTC - ----- Reply message ----- From: "Anita Gabrielle" To: "Gerald Kent" Cc: "JMDL JMDL" Subject: New Library item: An open letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini Date: Sun, Nov 30, 2014 1:15 PM But what? Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying Anita > On 30 Nov 2014, at 01:27, Gerald Kent wrote: > > Anita, painful but............ > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Nov 29, 2014, at 5:35 PM, Anita Gabrielle wrote: >> >> Holy Moly - this guy nails a lot of feelings folk have......a painful read. >> Anita >> >> >> >>> On 29 Nov 2014, at 21:53, TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com wrote: >>> >>> Title: An open letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini >>> Publication: National Post >>> Date: 2014.11.28 >>> >>> http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2874 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:40:40 -0500 From: anima_rising Subject: Re: New letter to joni Mitchell, Bidini Nicely said, Marianne. B Maybe I've grown thick-skinned, but I am not particularly bothered by the article. B He says a few things others, including some of us, have said before. Joni can come across as cranky sometimes, but so what? B Context is everything and some reporters or their editors like to go for the juicy stuff, B stir up the shite a bit.B He also says some positive things, and I choose to keep those in mind. Sent from Samsung Mobile
-------- Original message --------
From: Marianne Rizzo
Date:11-30-2014 10:02 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: joni list
Subject: New letter to joni Mitchell, Bidini
Hi. Joni sweet people, I just read this here letter. When you read it perhaps you will have the same visceral feeling. . . I don't know. He ended the letter with " let the art speak for itself, because when you speak I want to turn the sound off." So do that. Goodbye. He says to joni, "You make it seem like success in life is a miserable life, which it is not. . . Shouldn't you feel lucky or blessed. . ." You may want to read this if you have not already. I think it is good for us to read . . . but I ask, why would it appear on the joni Mitchell website? Would these words have the value to be left there? For those who appreciate joni, we don't want to turn the sound off. She is JONI who, at times, sees through a glass darkly. . . She has been in search of truth and beauty and she speaks it. She lives her duality and she expresses it in the most beautiful ways. She decides "truth over fiction." She sees betrayal: "greed it's the unraveling." She experiences and she expresses it. And why, what gets her there? She CARES. She cares about the "woe -begotten -daughters; for the Japanese. Let her speak, let her spit out her bitterness; "do you have eyes?" "What have I done to you? " and you were not to blame" And "the strong doing what they can and the weak suffering what they must." Joni doesn't "hate everything." She "sees like a child sees." She sees truth. She IS truth. (Okay. . . so she is/was in a bit of denial about her smoking) She sees all the beauty AND the greed and the pain; the gas leaks, the oil spills. ("Enter the multitudes"). "Some get the gristle, some get the marrow bone, some get nothing." Speaking truth, she has conviction. Thank you joni. She's looked at clouds from both sides now. Stardust golden. Shake your fists like lightening," joni, "roar like a forest fire." She plants her garden in the spring, she is Lakota. I love you joni, Marianne On 29 Nov 2014, at 21:53, TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com wrote: > > Title: An open letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini > Publication: National Post > Date: 2014.11.28 > > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2874 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 14:19:19 -0500 From: Gerald Kent Subject: Re: New letter to joni Mitchell, Bidini Agree Anita. I think many of us cringe at some of the things Joni says but we tend to understand it in a different context. Anyway, I have belonged to this list for like forever and am quite grateful to have it. Sent from my iPad > On Nov 30, 2014, at 1:47 PM, Anita Gabrielle wrote: > > Marianne, I'm with Ingrid on this. Your response is beautifully written and > your response really comes from your heart and also from the bottom of your > boots. Thank you for it. > > You do ask one question: >> "but I ask, why would it appear on the joni Mitchell website?" > > For good or bad, it is about Joni, or at least, addressed to her, so, in my > view, has its place on the web site Much as I find it a painful read, I really > am against censorship, only because it leads us down the road towards book > burning and silencing those with whom we don't agree. > > We've had our problems here from time to time, only this week can we talk > about Ferguson or (how do we talk about Ferguson) and Victor is telling us of > the FB difficulties. The strength of a community is always tested through the > difficult times. Who stays? Who goes? Who says what is unsayable? When the > unsayable is said, how do we manage? How do we meet each other when things > are painful and people are angry? > > I don't have the answers, but these are the questions I ask myself at times > like this. Marianne, your response is brilliant and, in my view, the perfect > repost to Mr Bidini, > Anita > > >> On 30 Nov 2014, at 15:02, Marianne Rizzo wrote: >> >> Hi. Joni sweet people, >> I just read this here letter. When you read it perhaps you will have the > same >> visceral feeling. . . I don't know. >> >> He ended the letter with " let the art speak for itself, because when you >> speak I want to turn the sound off." So do that. Goodbye. >> >> He says to joni, "You make it seem like success in life is a miserable > life, >> which it is not. . . Shouldn't you feel lucky or blessed. . ." >> >> You may want to read this if you have not already. I think it is good for > us >> to read . . . but I ask, why would it appear on the joni Mitchell website? >> Would these words have the value to be left there? >> >> For those who appreciate joni, we don't want to turn the sound off. She is >> JONI who, at times, sees through a glass darkly. . . She has been in > search >> of truth and beauty and she speaks it. >> She lives her duality and she expresses it in the most beautiful ways. She >> decides "truth over fiction." She sees betrayal: >> "greed it's the unraveling." She experiences and she expresses it. >> >> And why, what gets her there? She CARES. She cares about the >> "woe -begotten -daughters; for the Japanese. >> Let her speak, let her spit out her bitterness; "do you have eyes?" >> "What have I done to you? " and you were not to blame" >> And "the strong doing what they can and the weak suffering what they must." >> >> Joni doesn't "hate everything." She "sees like a child sees." She sees >> truth. She IS truth. >> (Okay. . . so she is/was in a bit of denial about her smoking) >> >> She sees all the beauty AND the greed and the pain; the gas leaks, the oil >> spills. ("Enter the multitudes"). "Some get the gristle, some get the > marrow >> bone, some get nothing." Speaking truth, she has conviction. Thank you >> joni. >> >> She's looked at clouds from both sides now. >> Stardust golden. >> Shake your fists like lightening," joni, "roar like a forest fire." >> She plants her garden in the spring, she is Lakota. >> I love you joni, >> Marianne >> >>> On 29 Nov 2014, at 21:53, TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com wrote: >>> >>> Title: An open letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini >>> Publication: National Post >>> Date: 2014.11.28 >>> >>> http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2874 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:38:39 +0000 From: c Karma Subject: re: Taylor Swift, Girls, squelching, etc. I still haven't seen any comment from Joni regarding any project that can legitimately be interpreted as her "dissing" Taylor Swift. Her comments regarding any film project seem to criticize the material presented within the script. I have the sense that she views the depiction of her story as being simplistically rendered, missing detail which better explains not only her motivation but others as well. I interpret her comments thus far as (paraphrasing here), "If you don't have a script, you really don't have anything except a cast." Does it really surprise anyone that the content of any project would be her main focus? Let's not forget that squelching is not the same as extinguishing. Squelching reduces background noise so that what you want to hear is filtered to cut through more clearly. With regard to Ms. Swift portraying Ms. Mitchell, I'll say this. They both do their research on topics that interest themselves, and generally come prepared. I think they have more in common than just high cheekbones. CC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 17:08:46 +0200 From: ingrid lochrenberg Subject: RE: New letter to joni Mitchell, Bidini You've said this superbly Marianne!! ... With your heart and your mind you have done her such justice. Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Marianne Rizzo Sent: b2014-b11-b30 05:04 PM To: ingrid lochrenberg Subject: Fwd: New letter to joni Mitchell, Bidini I just posted this to the list. Read the letter ( link) at the bottom then read my post. Then lets talk. Begin forwarded message: > From: Marianne Rizzo > Date: November 30, 2014 at 10:02:54 AM EST > To: joni list > Subject: New letter to joni Mitchell, Bidini > > Hi. Joni sweet people, > I just read this here letter. When you read it perhaps you will have the same visceral feeling. . . I don't know. > > He ended the letter with " let the art speak for itself, because when you speak I want to turn the sound off." So do that. Goodbye. > > He says to joni, "You make it seem like success in life is a miserable life, which it is not. . . Shouldn't you feel lucky or blessed. . ." > > You may want to read this if you have not already. I think it is good for us to read . . . but I ask, why would it appear on the joni Mitchell website? Would these words have the value to be left there? > > For those who appreciate joni, we don't want to turn the sound off. She is JONI who, at times, sees through a glass darkly. . . She has been in search of truth and beauty and she speaks it. > She lives her duality and she expresses it in the most beautiful ways. She decides "truth over fiction." She sees betrayal: > "greed it's the unraveling." She experiences and she expresses it. > > And why, what gets her there? She CARES. She cares about the > "woe -begotten -daughters; for the Japanese. > Let her speak, let her spit out her bitterness; "do you have eyes?" > "What have I done to you? " and you were not to blame" > And "the strong doing what they can and the weak suffering what they must." > > Joni doesn't "hate everything." She "sees like a child sees." She sees truth. She IS truth. > (Okay. . . so she is/was in a bit of denial about her smoking) > > She sees all the beauty AND the greed and the pain; the gas leaks, the oil spills. ("Enter the multitudes"). "Some get the gristle, some get the marrow bone, some get nothing." Speaking truth, she has conviction. Thank you joni. > > She's looked at clouds from both sides now. > Stardust golden. > Shake your fists like lightening," joni, "roar like a forest fire." > She plants her garden in the spring, she is Lakota. > I love you joni, > Marianne > >> On 29 Nov 2014, at 21:53, TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com wrote: >> >> >> Title: An open letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini >> Publication: National Post >> Date: 2014.11.28 >> >> http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2874 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 08:18:48 -0500 From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: That Joni Mitchell group on Facebook Wictor (as Madeline Kahn) would say. I left the Facebook group this summer. Best thing I ever did. How many pics of Joni that I've seen several times before were posted. Gag me! LOL xoxo Jimmy In a message dated 11/30/2014 2:40:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, waytobluemusic@gmail.com writes: > I left that group today...I just couldn't take it anymore. Every > thread turning into heated diatribe back and forth over what we > "should" or "shouldn't" discuss and God forbid we say anything that > might be construed as criticism because that wouldn't be "nice" and on > and on and on... > > It is so refreshing to know that the JMDL is here. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 11:28:03 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Which Joni song Kakki, As usual, you have written with heart, grace, and intelligence. It's great to see you're "home" (the JMDL), if only for the Holidays. >It was like Joni was singing everything I was going through that no one else seemed to understand. And then the final song Judgement of the Moon and Stars was the perfect resolution to it all. It gave me encouragement to stand up and fight back the darkness and believe in myself. That album was a true lifeline and still leaves me in awe at the power of music to transform and heal.> Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 11:45:55 -0500 From: malka marom Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #1500 I found Dave Bidnibs letter disgusting, disgraceful way to to get attention to himself. > On Nov 29, 2014, at 8:50 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > > JMDL Digest Saturday, November 29 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 1500 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #1490 [malka marom ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 20:50:24 -0500 > From: malka marom > Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #1490 > >> On Nov 29, 2014, at 4:54 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: >> >> >> JMDL Digest Saturday, November 29 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 1490 >> >> >> >> ========== >> >> TOPICS and authors in this Digest: >> -------- >> New Library item: An open letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini [TheS] >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 14:53:36 -0700 (MST) >> From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com >> Subject: New Library item: An open letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini >> >> Title: An open letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini >> Publication: National Post >> Date: 2014.11.28 >> >> http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2874 >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of JMDL Digest V2014 #1490 >> ****************************** >> >> ------- >> To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. >> Unsubscribe by clicking here: >> mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe >> ------- > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2014 #1500 > ****************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:27:48 -0600 From: Laura Stanley Subject: Woops left out Taylor My take after reading more of what Joni said is the movie would be like portraying VanGogh's paintings in a comic strip. Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 18:47:28 +0000 From: Anita Gabrielle Subject: Re: New letter to joni Mitchell, Bidini Marianne, I'm with Ingrid on this. Your response is beautifully written and your response really comes from your heart and also from the bottom of your boots. Thank you for it. You do ask one question: > "but I ask, why would it appear on the joni Mitchell website?" For good or bad, it is about Joni, or at least, addressed to her, so, in my view, has its place on the web site Much as I find it a painful read, I really am against censorship, only because it leads us down the road towards book burning and silencing those with whom we don't agree. We've had our problems here from time to time, only this week can we talk about Ferguson or (how do we talk about Ferguson) and Victor is telling us of the FB difficulties. The strength of a community is always tested through the difficult times. Who stays? Who goes? Who says what is unsayable? When the unsayable is said, how do we manage? How do we meet each other when things are painful and people are angry? I don't have the answers, but these are the questions I ask myself at times like this. Marianne, your response is brilliant and, in my view, the perfect repost to Mr Bidini, Anita > On 30 Nov 2014, at 15:02, Marianne Rizzo wrote: > > Hi. Joni sweet people, > I just read this here letter. When you read it perhaps you will have the same > visceral feeling. . . I don't know. > > He ended the letter with " let the art speak for itself, because when you > speak I want to turn the sound off." So do that. Goodbye. > > He says to joni, "You make it seem like success in life is a miserable life, > which it is not. . . Shouldn't you feel lucky or blessed. . ." > > You may want to read this if you have not already. I think it is good for us > to read . . . but I ask, why would it appear on the joni Mitchell website? > Would these words have the value to be left there? > > For those who appreciate joni, we don't want to turn the sound off. She is > JONI who, at times, sees through a glass darkly. . . She has been in search > of truth and beauty and she speaks it. > She lives her duality and she expresses it in the most beautiful ways. She > decides "truth over fiction." She sees betrayal: > "greed it's the unraveling." She experiences and she expresses it. > > And why, what gets her there? She CARES. She cares about the > "woe -begotten -daughters; for the Japanese. > Let her speak, let her spit out her bitterness; "do you have eyes?" > "What have I done to you? " and you were not to blame" > And "the strong doing what they can and the weak suffering what they must." > > Joni doesn't "hate everything." She "sees like a child sees." She sees > truth. She IS truth. > (Okay. . . so she is/was in a bit of denial about her smoking) > > She sees all the beauty AND the greed and the pain; the gas leaks, the oil > spills. ("Enter the multitudes"). "Some get the gristle, some get the marrow > bone, some get nothing." Speaking truth, she has conviction. Thank you > joni. > > She's looked at clouds from both sides now. > Stardust golden. > Shake your fists like lightening," joni, "roar like a forest fire." > She plants her garden in the spring, she is Lakota. > I love you joni, > Marianne > >> On 29 Nov 2014, at 21:53, TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com wrote: >> >> Title: An open letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini >> Publication: National Post >> Date: 2014.11.28 >> >> http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2874 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 19:16:43 +0000 From: Anita Gabrielle Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #1500 On 30 Nov 2014, at 17:09, Les Irvin wrote: > > "Musician, author and filmmaker Dave Bidini is one of the founding members of Canadian rock group the Rheostatics and currently performs with Bidiniband Not much ego there, then, Anita >> On 11/30/2014 10:00 AM, Jamie Zubairi home wrote: >> Yes, exactly who is he? >> >> Jamie Zubairi >> Actor, Artist, Voiceover, Photographer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 22:35:23 +0000 From: Anita Gabrielle Subject: Re: New Library item: An open letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini Holy Moly - this guy nails a lot of feelings folk have......a painful read. Anita > On 29 Nov 2014, at 21:53, TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com wrote: > > Title: An open letter to Joni Mitchell, from Dave Bidini > Publication: National Post > Date: 2014.11.28 > > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2874 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #404 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe