From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #164 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, May 12 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 164 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- New Joni book in September [Les Irvin ] Re: CMIARS/Shine ["Mark" ] CMIARS and everything else [Rob Procyk ] Re: CMIARS and everything else [Shari ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 18:32:30 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: New Joni book in September http://jonimitchell.com/library/viewmedia.cfm?id=107 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 20:49:25 -0700 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: CMIARS/Shine I finally got caught up with all of the JMDL email today which I am delighted to see! It's so good to see old friends and new posting their thoughts here. I have missed the discussion on this listserv so much. This recent surge of activity and also the mention of Facebook not being as a good a forum as the JMDL is very heartening to me. In regard to 'Shine', I remember that it was made for the Starbucks label and I believe it was also made during a long period of severe illness for Joni. Maybe selecting and hiring musicians, going into a studio and sketching out arrangements was more than her energy level could handle at that time. She was also working on the ballet 'The Fiddle and the Drum' with the Alberta Ballet Company at about the same time. But apparently she felt she had something she wanted to say so she made the deal with Starbucks and produced 'Shine'. Maybe the way she recorded it was the best she could manage to do at the time. Plus I'm sure it was no small pleasure for her that she was the closest thing to being in complete control of what went on it as she could possibly be. I am perhaps a Joni Mitchell apologist. I personally don't think she has produced a truly bad album. There are some I like better than others. Many are old friends that I know by heart from beginning to end. I have to admit, neither 'Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm' nor 'Shine' are among those. But I will say that after listening to a couple of cuts from CMIARS recently on headphones, my ears perked up and I feel that it deserves some revisiting. I know many felt that the Geffen box set was a marketing ploy and something of a rip-off. But to my untrained ears, there seemed to be some major cleaning up of the sound, particularly on 'Dog Eat Dog' and 'CMIARS'. If you can get your hands on either one of these titles in their box set versions, I highly recommend you give them a listen. I hear things in the music on those re-releases I had never heard in the initial CD releases of these two albums. And to Lori Renee Fye I say: STIR IT UP, WOMAN! Although I see your Facebook posts and occasionally contribute a comment or two to some of the very interesting and sometimes highly entertaining discussions you generate, I have missed your input here. I am SO glad you put your question out there and welcome your distinctive voice back into the Joni Mitchell Discussion List. Mark in Seattle -----Original Message----- From: Betsy Blue Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 6:21 AM To: guitarzan05@gmail.com ; joni@smoe.org Subject: CMIARS/Shine Randy: "If you locked her in a garage with no producer, Shine is what she would come out with. Is it great? You tell me." I can never shake the feeling that she made Shine during a solo week in her BC place. It feels like a demo, a reaction to the previous two albums. That said, Night of the Iguana is fantastic, and I love the piano-based songs. If Joni released a whole album of just piano, I'd buy it. The title track rubs me the wrong way, but overall, this is a good album that I frequently enjoy listening to (most of). Betsy NP #selfie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 23:41:28 -0600 From: Rob Procyk Subject: CMIARS and everything else And the award for long rambling post written on an iPhone and hence littered with weird b's instead of punctuation or parentheses goes to... Ok, maybe this won't be as rambling as I think it is going to be. In defence of CMIARS, this was, I think, my second Joni album. I discovered Blue in Dec. 1987, and then bought CMIARS as it was current and the first two singles got a bit of AirPlay here, since it was Canadian Content. I still really like this album and never thought it was weak. While I am a child of the 80s and think that DED is in Joni's top 6, I think Joni was smart to try to adapt - synths, duets, mixing love and social issues... If she had proper promotion, it could have been very big. Indeed, I listen to CMIARS more than I do WTRF. Even though I love "Chinese Cafe" and "Solid Love" and I am not ashamed to say that "Underneath the Streetlights" makes me smile and makes me feel happy, to me, that album sounds more dated than her other 80s albums. And I think it is great that we debate her work, especially her later work. I, for one, was never gaga over TI. Yes, I get many here think it's a masterpiece. Yes, the writing is superb. But it just bums me out. My favorite track is "How Do You Stop", an AC song she didn't write. I love many songs on the album, I really do, but it doesn't hook me. Maybe I'm more a fan of personal Joni over political Joni. But that's why I love this place - we are comfortable enough to say what we like and "no blame for what we can or cannot feel." Joni isn't perfect - she has just as many foibles as I do, and some albums are stronger than others. I remember someone sending me an advance copy of TTT and I remember positively gushing my review. Is it among her best? No. In retrospect, does a song written for a cat seem like a lame motif? Possibly, if you aren't a cat person. But for whatever reason, I liked that album a lot at the time. Thus, you'd think Shine woulda did the same. Unfortunately, it doesn't. I just don't think you can compare Shine to, say, HOSL - I've been obsessing over "Sweet Bird" lately - that song, against anything on Shine, isn't comparable. I'm not ashamed to say that. Ever since Klein has been out of the picture, I'm not super excited. And isn't that ok? Why should we be made to feel guilty for not loving something Joni has done? Yes she's a genius, but she's also just like you and I, and I don't believe she farts rainbows. And that's why the JMDL is so cool - we have our opinions, and others have theirs, and sometimes we convince others to give something a second try. Lord knows, when I joined the JMDL in 98 (where all romantics met the same fate - I'm turning into Patti Parlette!), I wasn't hooked on FTR. However, as Kakki and Ashara, two of my favorite JMDLers, loved it, I gave it a few more chances, and, behold, it might be my #2 today. So that's why this space is so cool. But if I can't state that there are albums I don't like, or question things about Joni that piss me off (hasn't played Sask! atchewan ever but claims to know what it's like here now), etc., then what's the point of calling this a discussion list? Keep posting, people - loving the discussions! Rob Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 23:11:03 -0700 From: Shari Subject: Re: CMIARS and everything else For the record I wasn't at all offended by the conversations around her worst album or worst song And there is no need to feel guilty for having expressed such an opinion. Only saying that she is a human being just like the rest of us and Mark in Seattle expressed his understanding for her circumstance in the way I intended to bring to light. Speaking of her work in such a cold and distant way removes the soul behind it and focuses on the song or collection of songs almost as an object. That's the style you choose and it's perfectly fine. My style is a little different. I try to think of the circumstance, the story, the struggle bc I actually care about her. My original question was : could you do what she did? Expose yourself, work yourself hard enough to face your truth head on, live through the pain that she had to endure? The over sensitive, constantly analyzing hyper aware mind. The guilt of a lost child? The cold and hard Mother? The disease and heartache? Or are you happy to not be Joni? To simply have the fortune of enjoying what she's created? I feel a little spoiled by her & feel she had to suffer too much for it. That's all. Lots of Joni, Shari > On May 11, 2014, at 22:41, Rob Procyk wrote: > > And the award for long rambling post written on an iPhone and hence littered with weird b's instead of punctuation or parentheses goes to... > > Ok, maybe this won't be as rambling as I think it is going to be. In defence of CMIARS, this was, I think, my second Joni album. I discovered Blue in Dec. 1987, and then bought CMIARS as it was current and the first two singles got a bit of AirPlay here, since it was Canadian Content. I still really like this album and never thought it was weak. While I am a child of the 80s and think that DED is in Joni's top 6, I think Joni was smart to try to adapt - synths, duets, mixing love and social issues... If she had proper promotion, it could have been very big. Indeed, I listen to CMIARS more than I do WTRF. Even though I love "Chinese Cafe" and "Solid Love" and I am not ashamed to say that "Underneath the Streetlights" makes me smile and makes me feel happy, to me, that album sounds more dated than her other 80s albums. > And I think it is great that we debate her work, especially her later work. I, for one, was never gaga over TI. Yes, I get many here think it's a masterpiece. Yes, the writing is superb. But it just bums me out. My favorite track is "How Do You Stop", an AC song she didn't write. I love many songs on the album, I really do, but it doesn't hook me. Maybe I'm more a fan of personal Joni over political Joni. But that's why I love this place - we are comfortable enough to say what we like and "no blame for what we can or cannot feel." Joni isn't perfect - she has just as many foibles as I do, and some albums are stronger than others. I remember someone sending me an advance copy of TTT and I remember positively gushing my review. Is it among her best? No. In retrospect, does a song written for a cat seem like a lame motif? Possibly, if you aren't a cat person. But for whatever reason, I liked that album a lot at the time. Thus, you'd think Shine woulda did the same. Unfortunatel! > y, it doesn't. I just don't think you can compare Shine to, say, HOSL - I've been obsessing over "Sweet Bird" lately - that song, against anything on Shine, isn't comparable. I'm not ashamed to say that. Ever since Klein has been out of the picture, I'm not super excited. And isn't that ok? Why should we be made to feel guilty for not loving something Joni has done? Yes she's a genius, but she's also just like you and I, and I don't believe she farts rainbows. And that's why the JMDL is so cool - we have our opinions, and others have theirs, and sometimes we convince others to give something a second try. Lord knows, when I joined the JMDL in 98 (where all romantics met the same fate - I'm turning into Patti Parlette!), I wasn't hooked on FTR. However, as Kakki and Ashara, two of my favorite JMDLers, loved it, I gave it a few more chances, and, behold, it might be my #2 today. So that's why this space is so cool. But if I can't state that there are albums I don't like, or q! > uestion things about Joni that piss me off (hasn't played Sask! > atchewan > ever but claims to know what it's like here now), etc., then what's the point of calling this a discussion list? > Keep posting, people - loving the discussions! > > Rob > > Sent from my iPhone ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #164 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe