From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #163 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, May 11 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 163 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #688 [SusanBTaylorBand ] Re: Would you [Anne Sandstrom ] Masterworks [Paul Ivice ] RE: CMIARS/Shine ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Re: CMIARS/Shine [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: CMIARS/Shine [Garret ] Re: BBC Radio 2 [lawntreader@googlemail.com] Winter in Florida [Paul Ivice ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 16:41:36 -0500 From: SusanBTaylorBand Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #688 Not everyone likes every song that Joni Mitchell has written, arranged, produced and performed, that is impossible! However like my mother taught me well, "If you can't say something nice about someone, you shouldn't say anything at all." I must have missed the critical comments. I am somewhat of a seasoned singer-songwriter with limited success - because I wasn't creative enough or spiritual enough to "write" messages that humanity can learn from and grow, nor could did I have the talent to open other people's minds like she does. I will repost what I wrote a few weeks ago: I believe Joni Mitchell is an Avatar and has extended great messages to humanity, men and women alike, throughout her career. Susan Sent from my iPad > On May 11, 2014, at 3:27 PM, owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) wrote: > > > JMDL Digest Sunday, May 11 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 688 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: Pedestal [Laura Stanley ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 15:26:47 -0500 > From: Laura Stanley > Subject: Re: Pedestal > > High Victor, > > Yes she is high up on a pedestal in my opinion. She's absolutely incredible! And she's also very human and has endured more criticism than probably most of us. I'm glad somebody stepped up and asked that it be pushed back here. I love the people on this list and don't mean to hurt feelings so if I have, I'm sorry. I'm a joker and don't take things too seriously. I've been struggling with too much responsibility of late so I'm easily disturbed. And when I'm disturbed, there is something wrong with me and I'm less tolerant. I'm a work in progress and not perfect. > > Love, > Laura > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 11, 2014, at 11:58 AM, owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) wrote: >> >> >> JMDL Digest Sunday, May 11 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 683 >> >> >> >> ========== >> >> TOPICS and authors in this Digest: >> -------- >> =?utf-8?Q?Re:_Would_you=E2=80=A6_?= [Victor ] >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 12:58:20 -0400 >> From: Victor >> Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_Would_you=E2=80=A6_?= >> >> What's disturbing is this perpetuated belief that if anyone "doesn't like" a particular song, album, or they don't like the production, or some other aspect, that they're somehow being "mean" to Joni? Really? Does she sit high up on a pedestal, where she is beyond any criticism of anything ever? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 11, 2014, at 9:20 AM, LC Stanley wrote: >>> >>> Thank you Shari for asking the list to "push back being so critical" of Joni. >>> B It gags me personally to see a bunch of relative amateurs compared to Joni >>> being so critical. Nobody on this list comes close to the expertise and talent >>> of Joni, and until somebody does it is musical masturbating (the real word!!) >>> of egos.B >>> >>> >>> Okay, steam's off now and on to the real meat of the listb& >>> Thank you Garret and Jamie for your very touching posts!!! Your posts were a >>> great way to start mother's day. B Happy Mother's Day Jonib& you are my >>> musical mother in a very real sense, and I love you!!! >>> >>> Love,B >>> Laura >>> >>> Garret >>> wrote: >>> >>> My first Joni album was Hits which I got a couple of years after it >>> was >>> released. I loved it by the end of the first track.B I had known Chelsea >>> Morning for years as my dad had had it on a tape he had made from his >>> brother's records.B He had mislabelled the singer as Janis Joplin. In >>> searching out Chelsea Morning I became a Janis fan. My dad's tape had long >>> been lost so I became convinced that my memory of the song was inaccurate. >>> Me: Great story Garret!! B Janisb& that's funny!!! >>> >>> A friend I had not seem >>> for years sent me a gift voucher for a music shop >>> unexpectedly.B I was >>> browsing and liked the cover of Hits. Just like you >>> said Jamie,B discovering >>> Joni really set a high standard in what I >>> considered to be great music.B A >>> lot of the music I had listened to as a >>> teenager suddenly seemed less >>> powerful,B less genuine,B and less >>> interesting. >>> >>> Me: My sentiments and >>> experience too! B And it still holds. >>> >>> As far as I can recall I then started >>> buying other Joni albums that were >>> represented on Hits. I joined JMDL in 1999 >>> I think.B BSN was on the >>> horizon.B I got caught up in the excitement here.B >>> I was still discovering >>> Joni albums and beginning to get my head around her >>> progression as an >>> artist. I had just gone to university and my friends thought >>> my new >>> infatuation was mad. >>> I really like Night Of The Iguana and really like >>> your comments about it. >>> Garret >>> >>> Me: B There are so many incredible songs on >>> Shine, and I agree with Joni that it is her best album so far. B It is higher >>> innocence in the Blake sense. >>> >>> >>> On 9 May 2014 12:41, "Jamie Zubairi Home" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm loving this discussion! For me CMIARS >>> was the first new album I came in >>>> on in 1988 having only just fell in love >>> with LOTC and I kinda thought 'Oh >>>> WOW, I guess she's gone the way of >>> Marianne Faithful, vocally' so it took >>>> some time to really get used to, >>> having really loved the helium soprano >>>> that got me hooked, it was a complete >>> turnaround to getting used to a new >>>> artist. I had it on tape and it was one >>> to really immerse myself in once I >>>> had bought a better sound system. I loved >>> the production of it, especially >>>> the haunting piano on My Secret Place and >>> the layering of instruments. >>>> Someone said it was a choral album, with guest >>> vocalists, which I'd never >>>> thought of as that before, more a dutes album >>> but, yes, it does fell like >>>> more of a choric album. >>> >>> Me: Brilliant!!! B I >>> love it!! >>> >>>> I guess I don't buy that much new music, or listen to new >>> musicians, having >>>> being spoilt by the high standards that I hold Joni in and >>> people always >>>> try and recommend me so-and-so "because she's just like Joni". >>> (Really? I >>>> can't hear it - or yeah, she's too like Joni, where is SHE in >>> it?) but now >>>> I've got into other artists who come from a folk root, but >>> mainly bands >>>> (Anathallo, Beirut, Fanfarlo etc etc) who don't bear any >>> resemblance to >>>> Joni's music but they tend to have a horn section, multiple >>> voices and good >>>> arrangements... so she's given me that at least). >>> >>> Me: >>> B Lourde, Haim. B I like these. B They are young and will be interesting to >>> follow, but nobody will ever come close to Joni for me. >>> >>>> >>>> My favourite >>> thing about Shine is that 'Night of The Iguana' DOESN'T have >>>> any castanets >>> in it, real, or synthesised, just where you're expecting to >>>> hear them in the >>> arrangement just after she says "Can you hear the >>>> castanets?" (No). >>>> I do >>> like Shine for all the crochety grandma-ness of it. I can't wait to >>>> hear a >>> sung version (if ever there will be) of 'This Rain'... will love to >>>> hear >>> what she'll do with the limited range. >>>> >>>> Anyway, welcome to the fold >>> Jamie Zubairi >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of JMDL Digest V2014 #683 >> ***************************** >> >> ------- >> To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. >> Unsubscribe by clicking here: >> mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe >> ------- > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2014 #688 > ***************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 12:58:20 -0400 From: Victor Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_Would_you=E2=80=A6_?= What's disturbing is this perpetuated belief that if anyone "doesn't like" a particular song, album, or they don't like the production, or some other aspect, that they're somehow being "mean" to Joni? Really? Does she sit high up on a pedestal, where she is beyond any criticism of anything ever? Sent from my iPhone > On May 11, 2014, at 9:20 AM, LC Stanley wrote: > > Thank you Shari for asking the list to "push back being so critical" of Joni. > B It gags me personally to see a bunch of relative amateurs compared to Joni > being so critical. Nobody on this list comes close to the expertise and talent > of Joni, and until somebody does it is musical masturbating (the real word!!) > of egos.B > > > Okay, steam's off now and on to the real meat of the listb& > Thank you Garret and Jamie for your very touching posts!!! Your posts were a > great way to start mother's day. B Happy Mother's Day Jonib& you are my > musical mother in a very real sense, and I love you!!! > > Love,B > Laura > > Garret > wrote: > > My first Joni album was Hits which I got a couple of years after it > was > released. I loved it by the end of the first track.B I had known Chelsea > Morning for years as my dad had had it on a tape he had made from his > brother's records.B He had mislabelled the singer as Janis Joplin. In > searching out Chelsea Morning I became a Janis fan. My dad's tape had long > been lost so I became convinced that my memory of the song was inaccurate. > Me: Great story Garret!! B Janisb& that's funny!!! > > A friend I had not seem > for years sent me a gift voucher for a music shop > unexpectedly.B I was > browsing and liked the cover of Hits. Just like you > said Jamie,B discovering > Joni really set a high standard in what I > considered to be great music.B A > lot of the music I had listened to as a > teenager suddenly seemed less > powerful,B less genuine,B and less > interesting. > > Me: My sentiments and > experience too! B And it still holds. > > As far as I can recall I then started > buying other Joni albums that were > represented on Hits. I joined JMDL in 1999 > I think.B BSN was on the > horizon.B I got caught up in the excitement here.B > I was still discovering > Joni albums and beginning to get my head around her > progression as an > artist. I had just gone to university and my friends thought > my new > infatuation was mad. > I really like Night Of The Iguana and really like > your comments about it. > Garret > > Me: B There are so many incredible songs on > Shine, and I agree with Joni that it is her best album so far. B It is higher > innocence in the Blake sense. > > > On 9 May 2014 12:41, "Jamie Zubairi Home" > wrote: > >> I'm loving this discussion! For me CMIARS > was the first new album I came in >> on in 1988 having only just fell in love > with LOTC and I kinda thought 'Oh >> WOW, I guess she's gone the way of > Marianne Faithful, vocally' so it took >> some time to really get used to, > having really loved the helium soprano >> that got me hooked, it was a complete > turnaround to getting used to a new >> artist. I had it on tape and it was one > to really immerse myself in once I >> had bought a better sound system. I loved > the production of it, especially >> the haunting piano on My Secret Place and > the layering of instruments. >> Someone said it was a choral album, with guest > vocalists, which I'd never >> thought of as that before, more a dutes album > but, yes, it does fell like >> more of a choric album. > > Me: Brilliant!!! B I > love it!! > >> I guess I don't buy that much new music, or listen to new > musicians, having >> being spoilt by the high standards that I hold Joni in and > people always >> try and recommend me so-and-so "because she's just like Joni". > (Really? I >> can't hear it - or yeah, she's too like Joni, where is SHE in > it?) but now >> I've got into other artists who come from a folk root, but > mainly bands >> (Anathallo, Beirut, Fanfarlo etc etc) who don't bear any > resemblance to >> Joni's music but they tend to have a horn section, multiple > voices and good >> arrangements... so she's given me that at least). > > Me: > B Lourde, Haim. B I like these. B They are young and will be interesting to > follow, but nobody will ever come close to Joni for me. > >> >> My favourite > thing about Shine is that 'Night of The Iguana' DOESN'T have >> any castanets > in it, real, or synthesised, just where you're expecting to >> hear them in the > arrangement just after she says "Can you hear the >> castanets?" (No). >> I do > like Shine for all the crochety grandma-ness of it. I can't wait to >> hear a > sung version (if ever there will be) of 'This Rain'... will love to >> hear > what she'll do with the limited range. >> >> Anyway, welcome to the fold > Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 00:57:51 +0000 (UTC) From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Re: Would you Very interesing question. In my case, Joni's life still looks pretty good. Then again, I've dealt with all kinds of medical issues from the time I was born. It might sound pompous to say, but I think the physical pain I've lived with for much of my life (including almost 4 years of treatment for a deadly form of cancer and the aftermath of that) gives me insight into what Joni has lived with. Like Joni, I'm driven to write and play music. Unlike her, I wasn't able to follow that path to its conclusion in large part because of the physical issues. Some of the same people who were instrumental in launching Shawn Colvin's career were promoting me. But I had to cancel some really important dates because I was in too much pain to get out of bed, much less perform. I guess what I'm saying is that I've come to realize how much I've gone through in my life. (My closest friend always says "None of us want to live your life, but we all want to hear about it.") And what feeds interesting and thought provoking art is often pain. So, would I want my life to have been easier? Oddly enough, no. Frankly, I hear some of the drivel that happy people who lead normal lives come up with. I've got some great stories, precious insights, and some halfway decent songs. I suspect Joni would value honest reactions to her work. And I can guarantee that she doesn't see it as all being equal. No artist does. I do wonder what she would consider her masterwork. lots of love,Anne(sorry for rambling so...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 14:30:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Ivice Subject: Masterworks From: ingrid lochrenberg Subject: CMIARS Something can be regarded by a person as a masterwork based solely on its impact....with no criteria or intellectualization in-mind. Even if this were a true statement, and I do not concede that it is, it STILL does not support the description of CMIARS as a masterwork. Under the earlier definition given (sorry, I forget who posted the definition of masterwork as a breakthrough accomplishment that positioned the artist a no longer an apprentice), STAS and C&S were mentioned, but I suggest it was really Blue. Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 17:24:49 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: CMIARS/Shine I also see this song as an update to Shadows and Light in a way. The contrasts between kids playing and bombs exploding a half a mile away ... the churches and the prisons they own ... plus this phrase is how I feel right now Shine on the pioneers Those seekers of mental health Craving simplicity They travel inward Past themselves ... may all their little lights shine Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu From: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 1:16 PM To: Susan E. McNamara; Betsy Blue; guitarzan05@gmail.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: CMIARS/Shine I love a good grouchy song, being a grouch myself. I find that, as I age, I get more tolerant of some things and less tolerant of others. I do understand the sentiment behind bitching about "asshole[s] passing on the right" and "Red-light runners... on their cellphones" often has the same importance as more global issues like "lousy leadership" and "mass destruction." They are all symbols of people's selfishness and thoughtlessness, but on a very different scale. Lord knows, I'm constantly bitching about "assholes blocking the intersection" and "dumbasses texting while they walk and walking right into me," so I get the curmudgeonliness of it. And I like the music for "Shine" for the most part, but I also find the song goes on too long. And, oh, you kids, get offa my lawn! ________________________________ From: Susan E. McNamara > To: Betsy Blue >; "guitarzan05@gmail.com" >; "joni@smoe.org" > Sent: Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:56:54 AM Subject: RE: CMIARS/Shine I really love Shine too but mostly for the message ... I'm usually not a big fan of her cranky songs, but Shine has a meditative quality to it that sends me places. Bob, I had to laugh at your description, Andy Rooney put to music. Haha! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 14:38:38 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: CMIARS/Shine Garret, what a fine fine post. So I'm curious...what tracks would your "1 good album" from the 80's be? As to this statement: Depends on how you define it, but generally speaking I'd MUCH rather listen to a strong album by anyone over a weak album of Joni's. There are moments of pleasure in all of her weaker albums but I'd always prefer something I totally dig as opposed to something where I have to tolerate the majority of it. Jack White producing Joni...what a fantasy. His work with Loretta Lynn was stellar. I still say that Daniel Lanois could make a good record with Joni. I've listened a LOT to Croz, the 2014 release from David Crosby. This record SOUNDS great, the production is really segmented and clear. I can't say why like Dave can, all I can say is that compared to Shine this record sounds spectacular. Perhaps not a masterwork by Crosby but the production goes such a long way to making something I want to hear as opposed something to avoid. Bob NP: Loreena McKennitt, "The Mummers Dance" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 20:05:14 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: CMIARS/Shine Bob, it would be something like this: Chinese Cafe Moon at the Window Be Cool You're so Square Good Friends Three Great Stimulants Dog Eat Dog Beat of Black Wings Bird that Whistles Not the most even playlist, but they're the highlights for me I think. I might make that playlist and see how it appeals to me;) For the record, I agree completely about listening to an album I dig over a Joni-dud. I think I'll have to listen to Croz now! Garret NP - Joni, Chinese Cafe On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 7:38 PM, wrote: > Garret, what a fine fine post. > > So I'm curious...what tracks would your "1 good album" from the 80's be? > > As to this statement: better than most artist's > albums. What do people think?> > > Depends on how you define it, but generally speaking I'd MUCH rather > listen to a strong album by anyone over a weak album of Joni's. There are > moments of pleasure in all of her weaker albums but I'd always prefer > something I totally dig as opposed to something where I have to tolerate > the majority of it. > > Jack White producing Joni...what a fantasy. His work with Loretta Lynn was > stellar. I still say that Daniel Lanois could make a good record with > Joni. I've listened a LOT to Croz, the 2014 release from David Crosby. > This record SOUNDS great, the production is really segmented and clear. I > can't say why like Dave can, all I can say is that compared to Shine this > record sounds spectacular. Perhaps not a masterwork by Crosby but the > production goes such a long way to making something I want to hear as > opposed something to avoid. > > Bob > > NP: Loreena McKennitt, "The Mummers Dance" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 22:39:47 +0100 From: lawntreader@googlemail.com Subject: Re: BBC Radio 2 Well, they played "Help Me", "Coyote" and "A Case of You" with some old Joni chat about painting with words that we have all heard before, but an unexpected Joni treat on my big day. Of course the biggest birthday treat around this time for me has been to experience all the energy around here once again. Lori, you should leave more often if this is what happens when you come back :-)) I have been so touched by so many of the beautiful posts about this place and the people here. It's another day when I have felt so blessed, and part of those blessings is being in this space with you, Love Anita (SLS, Birthday Princess for one hour twenty minutes more) > > > Yayyyyy it is my birthday and I am now 60! Can you believe that I have BBC Radio 2 on, sitting with a glass of New Zealand Blanc and they have just announced they are going to explore the lyrical content of the music of Joni Mitchell. Fancy that on my birthday! > Anita ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 13:51:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Paul Ivice Subject: Winter in Florida Kate Johnson wrote: they reported an unusually cold winter down in Florida, too. It's a lie; absolutely not true. We've had a warm and wonderful, if slightly more rainy than usual, winter and spring in Florida. Expect a fourth consecutive year of record-breaking numbers of tourists. The extra rain, though, is good for the citrus and other crops. My girlfriend came in February from Chicago, the first time we had seen each other since 1981 (when she told me she was going to marry someone else) to spend a week in Florida as we get to know each other again (after two divorces apiece and being out of touch with each other for 30 years) and help each other heal from some difficult times we've experienced in the past 18 months). While she was here we had the chamber of commerce weather I promised her for her visit. Paul Ivice ;>) ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #163 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe