From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #162 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, May 11 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 162 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Pedestal [Laura Stanley ] Re: Compiling the most Joni-like non-Joni album [Betsy Blue Subject: Re: Pedestal High Victor, Yes she is high up on a pedestal in my opinion. She's absolutely incredible! And she's also very human and has endured more criticism than probably most of us. I'm glad somebody stepped up and asked that it be pushed back here. I love the people on this list and don't mean to hurt feelings so if I have, I'm sorry. I'm a joker and don't take things too seriously. I've been struggling with too much responsibility of late so I'm easily disturbed. And when I'm disturbed, there is something wrong with me and I'm less tolerant. I'm a work in progress and not perfect. Love, Laura Sent from my iPhone > On May 11, 2014, at 11:58 AM, owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) wrote: > > > JMDL Digest Sunday, May 11 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 683 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > =?utf-8?Q?Re:_Would_you=E2=80=A6_?= [Victor ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 12:58:20 -0400 > From: Victor > Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_Would_you=E2=80=A6_?= > > What's disturbing is this perpetuated belief that if anyone "doesn't like" a particular song, album, or they don't like the production, or some other aspect, that they're somehow being "mean" to Joni? Really? Does she sit high up on a pedestal, where she is beyond any criticism of anything ever? > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 11, 2014, at 9:20 AM, LC Stanley wrote: >> >> Thank you Shari for asking the list to "push back being so critical" of Joni. >> B It gags me personally to see a bunch of relative amateurs compared to Joni >> being so critical. Nobody on this list comes close to the expertise and talent >> of Joni, and until somebody does it is musical masturbating (the real word!!) >> of egos.B >> >> >> Okay, steam's off now and on to the real meat of the listb& >> Thank you Garret and Jamie for your very touching posts!!! Your posts were a >> great way to start mother's day. B Happy Mother's Day Jonib& you are my >> musical mother in a very real sense, and I love you!!! >> >> Love,B >> Laura >> >> Garret >> wrote: >> >> My first Joni album was Hits which I got a couple of years after it >> was >> released. I loved it by the end of the first track.B I had known Chelsea >> Morning for years as my dad had had it on a tape he had made from his >> brother's records.B He had mislabelled the singer as Janis Joplin. In >> searching out Chelsea Morning I became a Janis fan. My dad's tape had long >> been lost so I became convinced that my memory of the song was inaccurate. >> Me: Great story Garret!! B Janisb& that's funny!!! >> >> A friend I had not seem >> for years sent me a gift voucher for a music shop >> unexpectedly.B I was >> browsing and liked the cover of Hits. Just like you >> said Jamie,B discovering >> Joni really set a high standard in what I >> considered to be great music.B A >> lot of the music I had listened to as a >> teenager suddenly seemed less >> powerful,B less genuine,B and less >> interesting. >> >> Me: My sentiments and >> experience too! B And it still holds. >> >> As far as I can recall I then started >> buying other Joni albums that were >> represented on Hits. I joined JMDL in 1999 >> I think.B BSN was on the >> horizon.B I got caught up in the excitement here.B >> I was still discovering >> Joni albums and beginning to get my head around her >> progression as an >> artist. I had just gone to university and my friends thought >> my new >> infatuation was mad. >> I really like Night Of The Iguana and really like >> your comments about it. >> Garret >> >> Me: B There are so many incredible songs on >> Shine, and I agree with Joni that it is her best album so far. B It is higher >> innocence in the Blake sense. >> >> >> On 9 May 2014 12:41, "Jamie Zubairi Home" >> wrote: >> >>> I'm loving this discussion! For me CMIARS >> was the first new album I came in >>> on in 1988 having only just fell in love >> with LOTC and I kinda thought 'Oh >>> WOW, I guess she's gone the way of >> Marianne Faithful, vocally' so it took >>> some time to really get used to, >> having really loved the helium soprano >>> that got me hooked, it was a complete >> turnaround to getting used to a new >>> artist. I had it on tape and it was one >> to really immerse myself in once I >>> had bought a better sound system. I loved >> the production of it, especially >>> the haunting piano on My Secret Place and >> the layering of instruments. >>> Someone said it was a choral album, with guest >> vocalists, which I'd never >>> thought of as that before, more a dutes album >> but, yes, it does fell like >>> more of a choric album. >> >> Me: Brilliant!!! B I >> love it!! >> >>> I guess I don't buy that much new music, or listen to new >> musicians, having >>> being spoilt by the high standards that I hold Joni in and >> people always >>> try and recommend me so-and-so "because she's just like Joni". >> (Really? I >>> can't hear it - or yeah, she's too like Joni, where is SHE in >> it?) but now >>> I've got into other artists who come from a folk root, but >> mainly bands >>> (Anathallo, Beirut, Fanfarlo etc etc) who don't bear any >> resemblance to >>> Joni's music but they tend to have a horn section, multiple >> voices and good >>> arrangements... so she's given me that at least). >> >> Me: >> B Lourde, Haim. B I like these. B They are young and will be interesting to >> follow, but nobody will ever come close to Joni for me. >> >>> >>> My favourite >> thing about Shine is that 'Night of The Iguana' DOESN'T have >>> any castanets >> in it, real, or synthesised, just where you're expecting to >>> hear them in the >> arrangement just after she says "Can you hear the >>> castanets?" (No). >>> I do >> like Shine for all the crochety grandma-ness of it. I can't wait to >>> hear a >> sung version (if ever there will be) of 'This Rain'... will love to >>> hear >> what she'll do with the limited range. >>> >>> Anyway, welcome to the fold >> Jamie Zubairi > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2014 #683 > ***************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 03:58:03 -0700 From: Betsy Blue Subject: Re: Compiling the most Joni-like non-Joni album Anne, I'm not familiar with your suggestions, so I'll have to check them out. As to my own collection, some artists are too conscious about her influence (Jewel) and I find it offputting. The Joni-influenced artists I enjoy most sound nothing like her (Prince, Tori Amos, Ellie Goulding, Seal, Maynard James Keenan). I can't think of anyone who randomly sounds like Joni. She doesn't even sound like herself from year to year. When Hancock's River came out, a lot of reviewers said Luciana Souza sounded like a young Joni, which struck me as insensitive considering the personal and professional circumstances, but also lazy. I sought out some of her originals and couldn't figure out whether it was a genuine similarity or the Klein influence. Betsy >>Last night I started thinking of songs/artists who sound the most like Joni and thought it would be interesting to try to compile a Joni-like album of non-Joni songs. I came up with four 'must-haves' for the CD. Then, I thought it would be fun to have everyone else chime in. So, to kick this off, my suggestions are: "Hollow" by Brian Kennedy"Gabriel" by Ronee Blakely"Nothing to Do" by Karen Farr"Flicker and Fail" by Laura Marling What else comes to mind? Do you think these are Joni-like? lots of love,Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 06:20:46 -0700 (PDT) From: LC Stanley Subject: =?utf-8?B?V291bGQgeW914oCmIFlFUyEhISAgSGFwcHkgTW90aGVyJ3MgRGF5I Epvbmkh?= =?utf-8?B?ISE=?= Thank you Shari for asking the list to "push back being so critical" of Joni. B It gags me personally to see a bunch of relative amateurs compared to Joni being so critical. Nobody on this list comes close to the expertise and talent of Joni, and until somebody does it is musical masturbating (the real word!!) of egos.B Okay, steam's off now and on to the real meat of the listb& Thank you Garret and Jamie for your very touching posts!!! Your posts were a great way to start mother's day. B Happy Mother's Day Jonib& you are my musical mother in a very real sense, and I love you!!! Love,B Laura Garret wrote: My first Joni album was Hits which I got a couple of years after it was released. I loved it by the end of the first track.B I had known Chelsea Morning for years as my dad had had it on a tape he had made from his brother's records.B He had mislabelled the singer as Janis Joplin. In searching out Chelsea Morning I became a Janis fan. My dad's tape had long been lost so I became convinced that my memory of the song was inaccurate. Me: Great story Garret!! B Janisb& that's funny!!! A friend I had not seem for years sent me a gift voucher for a music shop unexpectedly.B I was browsing and liked the cover of Hits. Just like you said Jamie,B discovering Joni really set a high standard in what I considered to be great music.B A lot of the music I had listened to as a teenager suddenly seemed less powerful,B less genuine,B and less interesting. Me: My sentiments and experience too! B And it still holds. As far as I can recall I then started buying other Joni albums that were represented on Hits. I joined JMDL in 1999 I think.B BSN was on the horizon.B I got caught up in the excitement here.B I was still discovering Joni albums and beginning to get my head around her progression as an artist. I had just gone to university and my friends thought my new infatuation was mad. I really like Night Of The Iguana and really like your comments about it. Garret Me: B There are so many incredible songs on Shine, and I agree with Joni that it is her best album so far. B It is higher innocence in the Blake sense. On 9 May 2014 12:41, "Jamie Zubairi Home" wrote: > I'm loving this discussion! For me CMIARS was the first new album I came in > on in 1988 having only just fell in love with LOTC and I kinda thought 'Oh > WOW, I guess she's gone the way of Marianne Faithful, vocally' so it took > some time to really get used to, having really loved the helium soprano > that got me hooked, it was a complete turnaround to getting used to a new > artist. I had it on tape and it was one to really immerse myself in once I > had bought a better sound system. I loved the production of it, especially > the haunting piano on My Secret Place and the layering of instruments. > Someone said it was a choral album, with guest vocalists, which I'd never > thought of as that before, more a dutes album but, yes, it does fell like > more of a choric album. > Me: Brilliant!!! B I love it!! > I guess I don't buy that much new music, or listen to new musicians, having > being spoilt by the high standards that I hold Joni in and people always > try and recommend me so-and-so "because she's just like Joni". (Really? I > can't hear it - or yeah, she's too like Joni, where is SHE in it?) but now > I've got into other artists who come from a folk root, but mainly bands > (Anathallo, Beirut, Fanfarlo etc etc) who don't bear any resemblance to > Joni's music but they tend to have a horn section, multiple voices and good > arrangements... so she's given me that at least). Me: B Lourde, Haim. B I like these. B They are young and will be interesting to follow, but nobody will ever come close to Joni for me. > > My favourite thing about Shine is that 'Night of The Iguana' DOESN'T have > any castanets in it, real, or synthesised, just where you're expecting to > hear them in the arrangement just after she says "Can you hear the > castanets?" (No). > I do like Shine for all the crochety grandma-ness of it. I can't wait to > hear a sung version (if ever there will be) of 'This Rain'... will love to > hear what she'll do with the limited range. > > Anyway, welcome to the fold > > Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 13:05:34 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: comparison of a case of you and tear in your hand hello all - over the years there have been a number of discussions comparing tori amos to joni. i've been looking for years for this post about them, written 16 years ago. found it this morning! slightly edited, as is my prerogative... ============= to simon's near-to-joni lists i add (not for the first time) - a song not written about joni - a song that doesn't mention joni - but - a verse from a song that pays subtle homage to a verse from a joni song. - ---- all the world just stopped now so you say you don't wanna stay together, anymore let me take a deep breath, babe if you need me, me and neil'll be hangin' out with the dream king (tori amos, tear in your hand, 1993) - ---- just before our love got lost, you said "i am as constant as a northern star" and i said, "constantly in the darkness,where's that at? if you want me i'll be in the bar" (joni mitchell, a case of you, 1974) joni is not asking where a northern star is. she's thinking 'he's promising to be some distant light in the sky while i'm down here in the dark; what's this shit about?'. 'where's that at' in this context is just idiom, communicating the same message as rolling one's eyes. nor has tori suddenly become asthmatic; she's obviously known this was coming. she takes a breath and metaphorically rolls her eyes. and for a verse she and joni find an identical coolness: the emotional content of these initial verses is so similiar... joni's verse 1: 1) ironic line suggesting why singer is distanced from... 2) pompous proclamation by soon-to-be-ex 3) more distance 4) if you want me, i'll be in the bar tori's verse 1: 1) ironic line suggesting that singer is distanced from... 2) pompous proclamation by soon-to-be-ex 3) more distance 4) if you want me, i'll be in the bar (with your friend) but neither of them is able to maintain this distance for a song. both songs painfully fail the irony of the first verses, by design they fail. after being told, "be prepared to bleed" joni is able to gasp out 'you are in my blood like holy wine', and tori cannot deny that 'all the world is dangling dangling dangling for you darling'. they are caught, as deeply as each of us is caught, once or twice in a life, and they make something beautiful of it, allowing us to accept. look at the last line of the chorus lyrics in each of these songs, similar acknowledgements of the inescapable influence of the heartbreaker/assholes in question: joni) i could drink a case of you, and still be on my feet tori) you don't know the power you have, with that tear in your hand no more to say. patrick np - donnacha dennehy, that the night come (dawn upshaw, soprano) - this is the most spectacular piece of new music i've acquired in a while!! ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #162 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe