From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #99 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, March 20 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 099 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Complete So Far [Vincenzo Mancini ] Re: Handwritten lyrics [Sally ] Re: Complete So Far [Bob Muller ] Re: Complete So Far [Dave Blackburn ] RE: JMDL Digest V2014 #432 [Jack Jaynes ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 20:00:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Vincenzo Mancini Subject: Complete So Far Mark,B As far as Night Ride Home and Passion Play are concerned, if you compare the Complete So Far with the original Night Ride Home songbook (which showed however open tuningsb&), you will have at least a partial answerb& Indeed, they amended correctly the tuning but simply copied the chords as originally reported thereinb& And, as you remarked, Passion Play in Complete So Far does not make sense at all while both the tuning and the chords were indeed correct in the original songbookb& (where the opening finger picking actually leaves your left hand free to prepare itself to make the harmonics ring at the 12th and the 5th frets, which not only makes sense but thoroughly fits with the "classic" JM shapesb&) Vincenzo Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 23:35:47 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Complete So Far Jonilistas, I've finally gotten a chance to look over the new songbook, and a lot of what I'll say won't be interesting to the non-musicians on the list, so feel free to skip past all this! While I appreciate the fact that the book has Joni's and Joel's input, and a nice photo section, it's kind of a letdown. I had high hopes for this book. When I was doing the transcriptions for JM.com, as dead certain as I was about a particular tuning or note or guitar shape, I couldn't be 100% positive that it was correct. It sounded correct to my ears, but unfortunately I didn't have Joni or Joel on speed dial to tell me if I was correct or not. But hearing about this book kind of got me excited. I felt that finally I didn't have to question my own transcriptions because we have the source's input. Joel has known Joni for years longer than I've been alive, and I know that he kept notes over the years of her tunings and chord shapes. And who better to have apart of this project than someone who's been there all along? But at some point with these transcriptions, there began a disconnect of sorts. Transcribers are a talented bunch. They love music so much that they want to learn how to play a particular song. Some are so talented at it that they go pro and do it for a living. I never considered myself talented enough to make a career out of it. But transcribers have this tendency to take a standard approach to a song. And that's fine because 9 songs out of 10 these days are written in standard tuning, and they're played in a standard way. But we all know that Joni's guitar style is definitely non-standard. And for an "end-all-be-all" guitar songbook to be released, the input of a non-standard transcriber is key. And that's where my main issue with this songbook lies. Sue, Marian, Howard and I all understand Joni's guitar style. We understand her tunings and we understand her chords. And from studying this book I notice this disconnect. There are tunings and chords in the book that are just simply wrong. For instance, this prevalent Open E tuning on songs like "Chelsea Morning." When Joni performed it on the Dick Cavett Show, she tuned to Open D and then used a capo on the 2nd fret. While the open chord is correct either way, it's not how she played it. Open E is kind of the bane of my guitar existence. It's a dangerous tuning not just for the strings but also the construction of the guitar. Likewise, the tuning for "In France They Kiss on Main Street" is EBF#ABE. It's going to take some balls to tune a guitar that high. Also, they say the opening chord for "Borderline" is an overhand barre. Again, if you're familiar with her guitar style, with the exception of two songs, that's not how she plays it. And input from someone familiar with her tunings would know this. And that is my main issue with the book. Before going to print it really needed someone (like me!) to go over everything to make sure these mistakes were corrected. Generally speaking, it's really nicely done. From what I've been studying, there's really very little to complain about. But I do want to mention that some songbooks in the past, notably the Mingus and Hits & Misses songbooks are exceptionally detailed (one of these days I'm going to learn how to read piano music and play "Sweet Sucker Dance"), and I was certainly hoping for the level of detail those books had in this book. I hope, eventually someday, there will be a complete book done with the tablature for both guitar and dulcimer as well as all of the piano songs. When that happens I'd be happy to give it my stamp of approval, but until then... I'm supporting the transcriptions that I and others have done that are posted on JM.com. While it is nice to have a hardbound book with a nice photo section and 90% correct tunings and chords, I can't say that I didn't learn anything new from the book that I didn't already learn from the posted transcriptions. A couple of other things though... A minor typo, but they have the header on "Blue Motel Room" as "Blue Hotel Room." The introduction tab for it looks like it got lost along the way a bit as several of those notes are wrong. The "middle 8" bit seems more like an interpretation than a transcription. I played along with it and again, it isn't correct. "Talk to Me": the tuning isn't right which leads to chord shapes that also aren't correct. There are also important considerations that aren't mentioned, like 12-string guitars, as I noticed in the Complete songbook that came out several years ago as well. Thankfully though, at least, they made mention (albeit, not exactly clear) of the Nashville guitar strings on "A Bird That Whistles." They say they're tuned an octave higher which is true but an unwound set from a 12-string package is necessary to get the octaves right. "Night Ride Home": tuning is correct but they have the chords wrong. "Passion Play" kind of hurts my brain because the tuning is wrong and to make up for it they have a single fretted note which gives it the right open chord (they have it in open D and then 002000, making it DAEF#AD, which is the right tuning). - - -Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:34:39 -0400 From: Sally Subject: Re: Handwritten lyrics Hello love! There are no coincidences. Maybe the lyrics were meant to go home with you! ;D And PS I found it riveting that -you're too raw/they think you're too raw- evolved from -it's the law-. That is major, right? Amazing. Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone > On Mar 20, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Anita G wrote: > > What's interesting for me is it seems as thought the auction place is in > Camberley, Surrey (up the road from where I was born) - does that mean the > lyrics are over here in the UK or what? If so, I wonder 'How DID they get > here?' (Queue David Byrne) > > But, yes, Sally, a great process to see the evolution of something > Anita > > >> On 20 March 2014 19:44, Sally wrote: >> >> Holy hell...I think I just creamed my jeans! Lord...who would put those >> up for auction. I wonder how they got hold of them in the first place! :0 >> As a writer it always fascinates me to see the evolution of something >> great. It just enhances what we know as the finished product. >> >>> On Mar 20, 2014, at 2:56 PM, Les Irvin wrote: >>> >>> Joni's handwritten lyrics for "Judgement of the Moon and Stars" up for >> auction. >> http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/25066737_joni-mitchell-rare-handwritten-lyrics ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:28:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Complete So Far ________________________________ I can sing One Week Last Summer perfectly. Would you care to do some acapella harmony?> And then we can work on a Tiger Bones duet! That's cool that you're tackling PP - good luck! Bob NP: The Hold Steady, "I Hope This Whole Thing Didn't Frighten You" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:14:12 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Complete So Far Betsy, Im glad the chart is getting used already. It was a biggie. Dave On Mar 20, 2014, at 10:10 AM, Betsy Blue wrote: > Bob, > > I can sing One Week Last Summer perfectly. Would you care to do some > acapella harmony? > > Seriously, I'm working on Paprika Plains on piano, which is literally the > only reason I came to this list. I haven't been this excited to get sheet > music since Rhapsody in Blue when I was about 12. > > Betsy > >>> Next up for me, Fiddle And The Drum, Coin In The Pocket and >> I's A >>> Muggin'. >>> >>> Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 12:58:27 -0700 From: Jack Jaynes Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2014 #432 Strange.. I can't seem to get the audio to play. Jack > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 14:25:01 -0400 > From: owner-joni-digest@smoe.org > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2014 #432 > > > JMDL Digest Monday, March 17 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 432 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #429 [lawntreader@googlemail.com] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:24:30 +0000 > From: lawntreader@googlemail.com > Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2014 #429 > > I am with you on that, Joe > Anita > > > On 17 Mar 2014, at 16:50, Joe Farrell wrote: > > > > More Tori Amos than Joni. That is how it sounds to me anyway. > > > > Regards, > > > > Joe. > > > > On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 12:41 PM, JMDL Digest wrote: > > > >> > >> JMDL Digest Monday, March 17 2014 Volume 2014 : Number > >> 429 > >> > >> > >> > >> ========== > >> > >> TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > >> -------- > >> Re: Joni parody on CBC [Catherine McKay < > >> anima_rising@yahoo.ca>] > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 05:39:28 -0700 (PDT) > >> From: Catherine McKay > >> Subject: Re: Joni parody on CBC > >> > >> Wow. She does have the Joni mannerisms down, even though she doesn't > >> particularly sound like her. And that is a very good description of Boxing > >> Day sales (and why I avoid that sh*t like the plague.) > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: Doug > >>> To: joni@smoe.org > >>> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 9:31:10 PM > >>> Subject: Joni parody on CBC > >>> > >>> > >>> Heard this on the radio yesterday I thought it was very well done. > >>> > >>> Doug > >>> > >>> http://www.cbc.ca/irrelevantshow/ > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> End of JMDL Digest V2014 #429 > >> ***************************** > >> > >> ------- > >> To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. > >> Unsubscribe by clicking here: > >> mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > >> ------- > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2014 #432 > ***************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #99 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe