From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #98 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, March 20 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 098 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Handwritten lyrics [Anita G ] Re: Handwritten lyrics [Sally ] Re: Handwritten lyrics [Anita G ] Handwritten lyrics [Betsy Blue ] Complete So Far [Vincenzo Mancini ] RE: Handwritten lyrics ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Re: Fwd: Handwritten lyrics [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Handwritten lyrics [Sally ] Re: Handwritten lyrics [Anita G ] RE: Complete So Far ["Susan E. McNamara" ] RE: Complete So Far ["Susan E. McNamara" ] RE: Complete So Far ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Re: Complete So Far ["Marian" ] Fwd: Handwritten lyrics [Anita G ] Re: Complete So Far [lawntreader@googlemail.com] Musical Legacies [Betsy Blue ] Re: Tori Anos [Paul ] Re: Tori Amos, not Anos [Anita G ] Joni Mitchell Complete So Far [Laura Stanley ] Re: Handwritten lyrics [Shadows and light ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 19:32:08 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Handwritten lyrics Oh, if only I were less materialistic :~))) Chant once for me...... Anita x On 20 March 2014 19:25, Shadows and light wrote: > man, i am chanting the object is NOT important, The Object is not > important. the object IS not important. tjis song is one of my favorites. > > > > On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Anita G wrote: > >> That looks definitely like Joni's hand writing. But over five hundred quid >> for it? Is it worth it? I just can't tell - but what a little piece of >> history. >> Anita >> >> >> On 20 March 2014 18:56, Les Irvin wrote: >> >> > Joni's handwritten lyrics for "Judgement of the Moon and Stars" up for >> > auction. http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/25066737_joni- >> > mitchell-rare-handwritten-lyrics ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 15:44:28 -0400 From: Sally Subject: Re: Handwritten lyrics Holy hell...I think I just creamed my jeans! Lord...who would put those up for auction. I wonder how they got hold of them in the first place! :0 As a writer it always fascinates me to see the evolution of something great. It just enhances what we know as the finished product. > On Mar 20, 2014, at 2:56 PM, Les Irvin wrote: > > Joni's handwritten lyrics for "Judgement of the Moon and Stars" up for auction. http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/25066737_joni-mitchell-rare-handwritten-lyrics ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 19:54:40 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Handwritten lyrics What's interesting for me is it seems as thought the auction place is in Camberley, Surrey (up the road from where I was born) - does that mean the lyrics are over here in the UK or what? If so, I wonder 'How DID they get here?' (Queue David Byrne) But, yes, Sally, a great process to see the evolution of something Anita On 20 March 2014 19:44, Sally wrote: > Holy hell...I think I just creamed my jeans! Lord...who would put those > up for auction. I wonder how they got hold of them in the first place! :0 > As a writer it always fascinates me to see the evolution of something > great. It just enhances what we know as the finished product. > > > On Mar 20, 2014, at 2:56 PM, Les Irvin wrote: > > > > Joni's handwritten lyrics for "Judgement of the Moon and Stars" up for > auction. > http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/25066737_joni-mitchell-rare-handwritten-lyrics ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 12:40:08 -0700 From: Betsy Blue Subject: Handwritten lyrics This is quite different from the final recording, and you can see which ideas were scrapped and which were refined. I'm glad this exists, but I don't have any desire to possess it. Plate number and make are on the motel receipt. Is it Bluebird, the blue Mercedes she bought with her first royalty check and kept until it was stolen in the late 80s? I've never seen a picture of that car, or a full description. Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 20:00:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Vincenzo Mancini Subject: Complete So Far Mark,B As far as Night Ride Home and Passion Play are concerned, if you compare the Complete So Far with the original Night Ride Home songbook (which showed however open tuningsb&), you will have at least a partial answerb& Indeed, they amended correctly the tuning but simply copied the chords as originally reported thereinb& And, as you remarked, Passion Play in Complete So Far does not make sense at all while both the tuning and the chords were indeed correct in the original songbookb& (where the opening finger picking actually leaves your left hand free to prepare itself to make the harmonics ring at the 12th and the 5th frets, which not only makes sense but thoroughly fits with the "classic" JM shapesb&) Vincenzo Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 23:35:47 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Complete So Far Jonilistas, I've finally gotten a chance to look over the new songbook, and a lot of what I'll say won't be interesting to the non-musicians on the list, so feel free to skip past all this! While I appreciate the fact that the book has Joni's and Joel's input, and a nice photo section, it's kind of a letdown. I had high hopes for this book. When I was doing the transcriptions for JM.com, as dead certain as I was about a particular tuning or note or guitar shape, I couldn't be 100% positive that it was correct. It sounded correct to my ears, but unfortunately I didn't have Joni or Joel on speed dial to tell me if I was correct or not. But hearing about this book kind of got me excited. I felt that finally I didn't have to question my own transcriptions because we have the source's input. Joel has known Joni for years longer than I've been alive, and I know that he kept notes over the years of her tunings and chord shapes. And who better to have apart of this project than someone who's been there all along? But at some point with these transcriptions, there began a disconnect of sorts. Transcribers are a talented bunch. They love music so much that they want to learn how to play a particular song. Some are so talented at it that they go pro and do it for a living. I never considered myself talented enough to make a career out of it. But transcribers have this tendency to take a standard approach to a song. And that's fine because 9 songs out of 10 these days are written in standard tuning, and they're played in a standard way. But we all know that Joni's guitar style is definitely non-standard. And for an "end-all-be-all" guitar songbook to be released, the input of a non-standard transcriber is key. And that's where my main issue with this songbook lies. Sue, Marian, Howard and I all understand Joni's guitar style. We understand her tunings and we understand her chords. And from studying this book I notice this disconnect. There are tunings and chords in the book that are just simply wrong. For instance, this prevalent Open E tuning on songs like "Chelsea Morning." When Joni performed it on the Dick Cavett Show, she tuned to Open D and then used a capo on the 2nd fret. While the open chord is correct either way, it's not how she played it. Open E is kind of the bane of my guitar existence. It's a dangerous tuning not just for the strings but also the construction of the guitar. Likewise, the tuning for "In France They Kiss on Main Street" is EBF#ABE. It's going to take some balls to tune a guitar that high. Also, they say the opening chord for "Borderline" is an overhand barre. Again, if you're familiar with her guitar style, with the exception of two songs, that's not how she plays it. And input from someone familiar with her tunings would know this. And that is my main issue with the book. Before going to print it really needed someone (like me!) to go over everything to make sure these mistakes were corrected. Generally speaking, it's really nicely done. From what I've been studying, there's really very little to complain about. But I do want to mention that some songbooks in the past, notably the Mingus and Hits & Misses songbooks are exceptionally detailed (one of these days I'm going to learn how to read piano music and play "Sweet Sucker Dance"), and I was certainly hoping for the level of detail those books had in this book. I hope, eventually someday, there will be a complete book done with the tablature for both guitar and dulcimer as well as all of the piano songs. When that happens I'd be happy to give it my stamp of approval, but until then... I'm supporting the transcriptions that I and others have done that are posted on JM.com. While it is nice to have a hardbound book with a nice photo section and 90% correct tunings and chords, I can't say that I didn't learn anything new from the book that I didn't already learn from the posted transcriptions. A couple of other things though... A minor typo, but they have the header on "Blue Motel Room" as "Blue Hotel Room." The introduction tab for it looks like it got lost along the way a bit as several of those notes are wrong. The "middle 8" bit seems more like an interpretation than a transcription. I played along with it and again, it isn't correct. "Talk to Me": the tuning isn't right which leads to chord shapes that also aren't correct. There are also important considerations that aren't mentioned, like 12-string guitars, as I noticed in the Complete songbook that came out several years ago as well. Thankfully though, at least, they made mention (albeit, not exactly clear) of the Nashville guitar strings on "A Bird That Whistles." They say they're tuned an octave higher which is true but an unwound set from a 12-string package is necessary to get the octaves right. "Night Ride Home": tuning is correct but they have the chords wrong. "Passion Play" kind of hurts my brain because the tuning is wrong and to make up for it they have a single fretted note which gives it the right open chord (they have it in open D and then 002000, making it DAEF#AD, which is the right tuning). - - -Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 19:29:44 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Handwritten lyrics I like this line: Condemned to wires and hammers ... strike at every human chord ... that shards of elephants and bludgeoned trees conceal ... But I like the final version better. :-) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Anita G Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 3:17 PM To: jonipeople LIST Subject: Fwd: Handwritten lyrics That looks definitely like Joni's hand writing. But over five hundred quid for it? Is it worth it? I just can't tell - but what a little piece of history. Anita On 20 March 2014 18:56, Les Irvin wrote: > Joni's handwritten lyrics for "Judgement of the Moon and Stars" up for > auction. http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/25066737_joni- > mitchell-rare-handwritten-lyrics ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 15:29:46 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Handwritten lyrics A VERY cool document to be sure...this looks to be a first draft with lots of changes, in playing the song in my head much of this is markedly different from what she eventually put down, right? A testament to her pursuit for the words to be perfect, and for this song they pretty much are. Thanks for sharing the link, Les. Paz should buy it (he's loaded as we all know) and give it to his friend Kakki as a gift. She's a big fan of the tune if I remember correctly. Bob NP: Steven Wilson, "Insurgentes" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 15:47:16 -0400 From: Sally Subject: Re: Handwritten lyrics Hahahaha! Step away from the crack pipe! The price seems relatively cheap to me. It's rather stunning that those are circulating actually. How on earth is that possible. Joni would strike me as the sort who would guard that stuff in a big way. Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone > On Mar 20, 2014, at 3:25 PM, Shadows and light wrote: > > man, i am chanting the object is NOT important, The Object is not > important. the object IS not important. tjis song is one of my favorites. > > > > On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Anita G wrote: > >> That looks definitely like Joni's hand writing. But over five hundred quid >> for it? Is it worth it? I just can't tell - but what a little piece of >> history. >> Anita >> >> >>> On 20 March 2014 18:56, Les Irvin wrote: >>> >>> Joni's handwritten lyrics for "Judgement of the Moon and Stars" up for >>> auction. http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/25066737_joni- >>> mitchell-rare-handwritten-lyrics ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 19:35:23 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Handwritten lyrics 'Shards of elephants' - that girls clearly couldn't let go of those pachyderms, even back then. Yes, it's interesting to see how the song developed, for sure, Anita On 20 March 2014 19:29, Susan E. McNamara wrote: > I like this line: > > Condemned to wires and hammers ... strike at every human chord ... that > shards of elephants and bludgeoned trees conceal ... > > But I like the final version better. :-) > > Susan Tierney McNamara > email: sem8@cornell.edu > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Anita > G > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 3:17 PM > To: jonipeople LIST > Subject: Fwd: Handwritten lyrics > > That looks definitely like Joni's hand writing. But over five hundred quid > for it? Is it worth it? I just can't tell - but what a little piece of > history. > Anita > > > On 20 March 2014 18:56, Les Irvin wrote: > > > Joni's handwritten lyrics for "Judgement of the Moon and Stars" up for > > auction. http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/25066737_joni- > > mitchell-rare-handwritten-lyrics ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 15:10:24 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Complete So Far So is it right or not, Boob, I mean Bob!! <3 :) <3 Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com [mailto:Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 11:08 AM To: Susan E. McNamara Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Complete So Far Hey, I have been working on the guitar part on "Tenth World" - hooray for me! Bob NP: Apocalyptica, "Ruska" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 14:24:33 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Complete So Far Thanks so much Mark, you have done a lot more work on this book than I have so far, so I really appreciate your feedback. The songs I have tried so far are Trouble Child, Nathan LaFraneer, Circle Game, and Sweet Bird, mostly because I've been in open G for the last three months practicing for the Joni Tribute. I do this sometimes ... I just play in a variation of the same tuning for a really long time until I have all of the songs down. My initial bias is that although I didn't see too much wrong about the way these songs were tabbed, there were slight differences from the tabs at the website where I said to myself (as you mention too) Joni wouldn't do that. I guess in my arrogance (for myself anyway), I like this book as a "companion" to the database. I'm sure as I work through more of the songs, and I hope others do this too, we can alert each other where we think the book misses the mark. I only say this because my mission statement has always been How Is Joni Playing It. As you say about transcribers, they may be very fluent in the language of written music, but Joni is the composer, and it's her sound and craftsmanship that we are focused on. That's how I operate, anyway. THANK YOU MARK!! Love, Sue Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Mark Domyancich Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 12:36 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Complete So Far Jonilistas, I've finally gotten a chance to look over the new songbook, and a lot of what I'll say won't be interesting to the non-musicians on the list, so feel free to skip past all this! While I appreciate the fact that the book has Joni's and Joel's input, and a nice photo section, it's kind of a letdown. I had high hopes for this book. When I was doing the transcriptions for JM.com, as dead certain as I was about a particular tuning or note or guitar shape, I couldn't be 100% positive that it was correct. It sounded correct to my ears, but unfortunately I didn't have Joni or Joel on speed dial to tell me if I was correct or not. But hearing about this book kind of got me excited. I felt that finally I didn't have to question my own transcriptions because we have the source's input. Joel has known Joni for years longer than I've been alive, and I know that he kept notes over the years of her tunings and chord shapes. And who better to have apart of this project than someone who's been there all along? But at some point with these transcriptions, there began a disconnect of sorts. Transcribers are a talented bunch. They love music so much that they want to learn how to play a particular song. Some are so talented at it that they go pro and do it for a living. I never considered myself talented enough to make a career out of it. But transcribers have this tendency to take a standard approach to a song. And that's fine because 9 songs out of 10 these days are written in standard tuning, and they're played in a standard way. But we all know that Joni's guitar style is definitely non-standard. And for an "end-all-be-all" guitar songbook to be released, the input of a non-standard transcriber is key. And that's where my main issue with this songbook lies. Sue, Marian, Howard and I all understand Joni's guitar style. We understand her tunings and we understand her chords. And from studying this book I notice this disconnect. There are tunings and chords in the book that are just simply wrong. For instance, this prevalent Open E tuning on songs like "Chelsea Morning." When Joni performed it on the Dick Cavett Show, she tuned to Open D and then used a capo on the 2nd fret. While the open chord is correct either way, it's not how she played it. Open E is kind of the bane of my guitar existence. It's a dangerous tuning not just for the strings but also the construction of the guitar. Likewise, the tuning for "In France They Kiss on Main Street" is EBF#ABE. It's going to take some balls to tune a guitar that high. Also, they say the opening chord for "Borderline" is an overhand barre. Again, if you're familiar with her guitar style, with the exception of two songs, that's not how she plays it. And input from someone familiar with her tunings would know this. And that is my main issue with the book. Before going to print it really needed someone (like me!) to go over everything to make sure these mistakes were corrected. Generally speaking, it's really nicely done. From what I've been studying, there's really very little to complain about. But I do want to mention that some songbooks in the past, notably the Mingus and Hits & Misses songbooks are exceptionally detailed (one of these days I'm going to learn how to read piano music and play "Sweet Sucker Dance"), and I was certainly hoping for the level of detail those books had in this book. I hope, eventually someday, there will be a complete book done with the tablature for both guitar and dulcimer as well as all of the piano songs. When that happens I'd be happy to give it my stamp of approval, but until then... I'm supporting the transcriptions that I and others have done tha! t are po sted on JM.com. While it is nice to have a hardbound book with a nice photo section and 90% correct tunings and chords, I can't say that I didn't learn anything new from the book that I didn't already learn from the posted transcriptions. A couple of other things though... A minor typo, but they have the header on "Blue Motel Room" as "Blue Hotel Room." The introduction tab for it looks like it got lost along the way a bit as several of those notes are wrong. The "middle 8" bit seems more like an interpretation than a transcription. I played along with it and again, it isn't correct. "Talk to Me": the tuning isn't right which leads to chord shapes that also aren't correct. There are also important considerations that aren't mentioned, like 12-string guitars, as I noticed in the Complete songbook that came out several years ago as well. Thankfully though, at least, they made mention (albeit, not exactly clear) of the Nashville guitar strings on "A Bird That Whistles." They say they're tuned an octave higher which is true but an unwound set from a 12-string package is necessary to get the octaves right. "Night Ride Home": tuning is correct but they have the chords wrong. "Passion Play" kind of hurts my brain because the tuning is wrong and to make up for it they have a single fretted note which gives it the right open chord (they have it in open D and then 002000, making it DAEF#AD, which is the right tuning). - -Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 15:27:10 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Complete So Far One of many words that always make kids laugh!!! :) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com [mailto:Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 11:18 AM To: Susan E. McNamara Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Complete So Far So is it right or not, Boob, I mean Bob!! <3 :) <3> Boob? Ahhh, that takes me back to playground days...and yes, it sounds just like Joni. Next up for me, Fiddle And The Drum, Coin In The Pocket and I's A Muggin'. Bob NP: Archive, "Kings Of Speed" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 19:42:01 +0100 From: "Marian" Subject: Re: Complete So Far Hi, Mark! I really appreciate your detailed comments about the new book. I haven't had a chance to really look at it, yet, but I can't say that I'm very surprised to hear about the points you mention. The tuning EBF#ABE is especially unfortunate! I was glad to see that there is a section where the songs are organized into tuning families, and hopefully most people will realize what will happen if they tune up to EBF#ABE and will tune down and use a capo instead. I also think it's a shame that there are no piano transcriptions in the book. I suppose it is useful for guitarists to have lead sheets now for the piano songs, but it would have been wonderful if authentic piano transcriptions could have been included. I hope that people who buy the book will eventually happen upon the guitar/piano section of jm.com for other ideas. The book is a nice keepsake and has beautiful photos, but jm.com is definitely more "Complete, So Far". Marian - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 23:35:47 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Complete So Far Jonilistas, I've finally gotten a chance to look over the new songbook, and a lot of what I'll say won't be interesting to the non-musicians on the list, so feel free to skip past all this! While I appreciate the fact that the book has Joni's and Joel's input, and a nice photo section, it's kind of a letdown. I had high hopes for this book. When I was doing the transcriptions for JM.com, as dead certain as I was about a particular tuning or note or guitar shape, I couldn't be 100% positive that it was correct. It sounded correct to my ears, but unfortunately I didn't have Joni or Joel on speed dial to tell me if I was correct or not. But hearing about this book kind of got me excited. I felt that finally I didn't have to question my own transcriptions because we have the source's input. Joel has known Joni for years longer than I've been alive, and I know that he kept notes over the years of her tunings and chord shapes. And who better to have apart of this project than someone who's been there all along? But at some point with these transcriptions, there began a disconnect of sorts. Transcribers are a talented bunch. They love music so much that they want to learn how to play a particular song. Some are so talented at it that they go pro and do it for a living. I never considered myself talented enough to make a career out of it. But transcribers have this tendency to take a standard approach to a song. And that's fine because 9 songs out of 10 these days are written in standard tuning, and they're played in a standard way. But we all know that Joni's guitar style is definitely non-standard. And for an "end-all-be-all" guitar songbook to be released, the input of a non-standard transcriber is key. And that's where my main issue with this songbook lies. Sue, Marian, Howard and I all understand Joni's guitar style. We understand her tunings and we understand her chords. And from studying this book I notice this disconnect. There are tunings and chords in the book that are just simply wrong. For instance, this prevalent Open E tuning on songs like "Chelsea Morning." When Joni performed it on the Dick Cavett Show, she tuned to Open D and then used a capo on the 2nd fret. While the open chord is correct either way, it's not how she played it. Open E is kind of the bane of my guitar existence. It's a dangerous tuning not just for the strings but also the construction of the guitar. Likewise, the tuning for "In France They Kiss on Main Street" is EBF#ABE. It's going to take some balls to tune a guitar that high. Also, they say the opening chord for "Borderline" is an overhand barre. Again, if you're familiar with her guitar style, with the exception of two songs, that's not how she plays it. And input from someone familiar with her tunings would know this. And that is my main issue with the book. Before going to print it really needed someone (like me!) to go over everything to make sure these mistakes were corrected. Generally speaking, it's really nicely done. From what I've been studying, there's really very little to complain about. But I do want to mention that some songbooks in the past, notably the Mingus and Hits & Misses songbooks are exceptionally detailed (one of these days I'm going to learn how to read piano music and play "Sweet Sucker Dance"), and I was certainly hoping for the level of detail those books had in this book. I hope, eventually someday, there will be a complete book done with the tablature for both guitar and dulcimer as well as all of the piano songs. When that happens I'd be happy to give it my stamp of approval, but until then... I'm supporting the transcriptions that I and others have done that are posted on JM.com. While it is nice to have a hardbound book with a nice photo section and 90% correct tunings and chords, I can't say that I didn't learn anything new from the book that I didn't already learn from the posted transcriptions. A couple of other things though... A minor typo, but they have the header on "Blue Motel Room" as "Blue Hotel Room." The introduction tab for it looks like it got lost along the way a bit as several of those notes are wrong. The "middle 8" bit seems more like an interpretation than a transcription. I played along with it and again, it isn't correct. "Talk to Me": the tuning isn't right which leads to chord shapes that also aren't correct. There are also important considerations that aren't mentioned, like 12-string guitars, as I noticed in the Complete songbook that came out several years ago as well. Thankfully though, at least, they made mention (albeit, not exactly clear) of the Nashville guitar strings on "A Bird That Whistles." They say they're tuned an octave higher which is true but an unwound set from a 12-string package is necessary to get the octaves right. "Night Ride Home": tuning is correct but they have the chords wrong. "Passion Play" kind of hurts my brain because the tuning is wrong and to make up for it they have a single fretted note which gives it the right open chord (they have it in open D and then 002000, making it DAEF#AD, which is the right tuning). - - -Mark - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 19:16:54 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Fwd: Handwritten lyrics That looks definitely like Joni's hand writing. But over five hundred quid for it? Is it worth it? I just can't tell - but what a little piece of history. Anita On 20 March 2014 18:56, Les Irvin wrote: > Joni's handwritten lyrics for "Judgement of the Moon and Stars" up for > auction. http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/25066737_joni- > mitchell-rare-handwritten-lyrics ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:43:26 +0000 From: lawntreader@googlemail.com Subject: Re: Complete So Far Bob, you working up to 'Smokin'? Fit guy like you, I'm sure the transcription will be brilliant! Anita Sent from my new iPad which, with its HD camera, makes every wrinkle look like an abyss. > On 20 Mar 2014, at 15:27, "Susan E. McNamara" > like Joni. Next up for me, Fiddle And The Drum, Coin In The Pocket and I's A > Muggin'. > > Bob > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 09:14:33 -0700 From: Betsy Blue Subject: Musical Legacies Prince was influenced by Joni. I think a lot of male guitarists are, but that isn't called out by the press. The problem with Joni's descendants is that the more they are influenced by her, the less they seem to resemble her. Just like people point to Joan Baez and Bob Dylan more than Miles Davis and Edith Piaf when noting Joni's predecessors. Chaka Khan, Ellis Goulding, Janet Jackson, Elvis Costello, Cassandra Wilson, Cyndi Lauper...none of them are blondes with acoustic guitars. Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 06:52:30 -0400 From: Paul Subject: Re: Tori Anos I was going by what Madonna herself said, that she wore out Court&Spark playing it in high school, and though it is true Tori has covered Joni, several published sources and my own ear say she owes more to Laura Nyro for her style than she does to Joni. Paul Ivice Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID Sally wrote: >Madonna??? :0 I'm not seeing that. As far as who Joni has directly influenced, it might be a better idea to consider who she 'stimulated' and in that regard, the list is endless. Tori covers Joni regularly. I've read countless women who mention her as an influence, Stevie Nicks comes to mind immediately. I think it's vast. I have always imagined all of the artists that we think of as brilliant, spinning the latest Joni release and being blown away by it. It's like Dylan...frankly who has his music not touched and changed. I think Joni is the same...pivotal, essential, definitive. > >Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone > >> On Mar 18, 2014, at 3:49 AM, Paul wrote: >> >> Joe wrote that the satire piece sounded more like Tori Amos than Joni, but if it's more Tori than Joni, it is really more Laura Nyro than Joni. >> Laura Nyro had more success as a songwriter for other singers than did Joni, who had more success than Laura as a performer. >> However, it may be a tossup as to which of them has a longer or more successful line of female singers songwriters they influenced. >> Laura's line includes Amos, Fiona Apple, Rickie Lee Jones and, according to some reports, Nora Jones among others. >> Other than Madonna, who else would be in Joni's line? >> >> Paul Ivice >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 19:45:48 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: Tori Amos, not Anos Over Christmas we went to London to see Tori Amos' musical theatre piece 'The Light Princess' which was quite enjoyable and worked on several levels - - especially about not being grounded when we grieve (an adult theme amongst the Princess fairy tale). I sat next to a couple of very handsome young gay men who, like me, wanted more of the furry bunny that also featured in the musical. As for artists influenced by Joni - anyone with a sense of style and depth would have to be influenced by her, I imagine, Anita x On 18 March 2014 16:53, wrote: > Muller's > work email allows this one through.> > > It passed right through the sphincter of our servers, Catherine. As far as > comparing these artists, or saying who influenced who, unless you are > existing in a vaccuum, you're going to be influenced by everything, either > in a good way (Ooh, I wanna sound like that) or not (yuck, I never want to > sound like that). Just to expand on a previous comment, Tori has released > her covers of ACOY and Circle Game, and referenced BSN in concert as an > intro to other tunes. Nearly every singer-songwriter of any genre is aware > of Joni's work, even Taylor Swift (the threadstarter!) > > I always found it easier to compare Rickie Lee with Laura, but not in a > copycat way. I've heard bits and pieces of other artists that sound > Joni-like, but not one who makes me feel that consistently. > > Bob > > NP: Against Me!, "Unconditional Love" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 15:08:59 -0500 From: Laura Stanley Subject: Joni Mitchell Complete So Far Hi Sue, I've been playing the songs on flute. Grateful for the hard back nature of the book that stays on the stand so nicely. On guitar, Cactus Tree yesterday and Harry's House today. For The Roses several days ago. Finger picking is fun on these. I envy my son who is a freshman in college and has a copy. I wish I'd had a copy back then. Of course it wouldn't have been as complete. I like it that she says "so far" in the title. Awesome to have her album Shine in this book! She's got 2007 under Big Yellow Taxi. I had to stop and think... has it really been 7 years since her album Shine was release. Sure enough, September 24, 2007. Wonder what Joni has in the oven now? We are old on this list because young kids would never have let. 7 years go by without asking and asking for MORE. "Please sir, I want more." It would be nice. Love, Laura Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 17, 2014, at 11:12 AM, owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) wrote: > > > JMDL Digest Monday, March 17 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 430 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Joni Mitchell Complete So Far ["Susan E. McNamara" ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 16:11:53 +0000 > From: "Susan E. McNamara" > Subject: Joni Mitchell Complete So Far > > I have to say that I am enjoying going through the new Complete So Far tab > book by Joel Bernstein. I think for anyone who is a student of Joni's > alternate tuning method, this is a good companion to the many EXCELLENT tabs > at the Joni Mitchell guitar and piano site. I decided I would learn a couple > of songs that I hadn't played before, including Nathan LaFraneer and the > Circle Game (can you believe it!). Although there were a couple of chord > shapes here and there I didn't agree with, overall I feel that by learning the > songs off these sheets, I was able to play the songs the way Joni wrote them. > Really fun songs to play too. The lyrics in Nathan LaFraneer are really > thrilling me ... through the tunnel tiled and turning ... into daylight ... I > am escaping ... love it!! > > Also, the tuning list that he has at the beginning of the book is arranged by > the tuning key, which is fine, but I much prefer the databases choice of > "family of tunings" as Joni calls them, or generic tuning, which eliminated > the lowest string and is based in Joni's number system. > > Well, I'm hoping that after some more in depth perusing I'll be able to write > a more comprehensive review, but if others are using the book, I'd love to > hear what you think of it. > > Sue > > Susan Tierney McNamara > Prospect Research Officer > Office of Prospect Development > Alumni Affairs and Development > Cornell University > 349L, 130 Seneca Place > Ithaca, NY 14850 > phone: 607-255-3871 > fax: 607-254-7166 > email: sem8@cornell.edu > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2014 #430 > ***************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 12:25:46 -0700 From: Shadows and light Subject: Re: Handwritten lyrics man, i am chanting the object is NOT important, The Object is not important. the object IS not important. tjis song is one of my favorites. On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Anita G wrote: > That looks definitely like Joni's hand writing. But over five hundred quid > for it? Is it worth it? I just can't tell - but what a little piece of > history. > Anita > > > On 20 March 2014 18:56, Les Irvin wrote: > > > Joni's handwritten lyrics for "Judgement of the Moon and Stars" up for > > auction. http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/25066737_joni- > > mitchell-rare-handwritten-lyrics ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #98 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe