From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #96 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Website:http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe:mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, March 20 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 096 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- New Library item: Biggest no-nuke rally rocks Washington [TheStaff@JoniMi] Recurring hi rez thread [jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com] Tori Anos [Paul ] Re: Tori Amos, not Anos [Catherine McKay ] RE: Joni Mitchell Complete So Far ["Susan E. McNamara" ] Re: Tori Amos, not Anos [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Tori Anos [Sally ] Re: Recurring hi rez thread [Richard Flynn ] Complete So Far [Mark Domyancich ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 10:40:05 -0600 (MDT) From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Subject: New Library item: Biggest no-nuke rally rocks Washington Title: Biggest no-nuke rally rocks Washington Publication: Circus Weekly Date: 1979.05.06 http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2766 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 22:24:47 -0400 From: jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com Subject: Recurring hi rez thread Mini review of Hejira in 96/24: it is worth the money. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 03:49:48 -0400 From: Paul Subject: Tori Anos Joe wrote that the satire piece sounded more like Tori Amos than Joni, but if it's more Tori than Joni, it is really more Laura Nyro than Joni. Laura Nyro had more success as a songwriter for other singers than did Joni, who had more success than Laura as a performer. However, it may be a tossup as to which of them has a longer or more successful line of female singers songwriters they influenced. Laura's line includes Amos, Fiona Apple, Rickie Lee Jones and, according to some reports, Nora Jones among others. Other than Madonna, who else would be in Joni's line? Paul Ivice Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:32:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Tori Amos, not Anos Next thing you know, we'll be calling her Tori Anus! Let's see if Muller's work email allows this one through. As far as influences, I think it's all part of that chick-with-guitar vs chick-with-piano thing. If you're a woman and you play guitar, you're "another Joni Mitchell" and, as we all know, Joni is possibly another Kitty Wells. I've heard Tori Amos compared to Kate Bush as well. I've also read that Madonna is a Joni fan. As far as who influenced whom, it's hard not to be influenced by someone, but hard to be as good as some of them. Joni is both a guitarist and a pianist. I've never seen Madonna play an instrument, but then, I'm not a big fan of hers and have never seen her live. I don't even know if she writes her own songs but I suppose she must. >________________________________ > From: Paul >To: Sally ; joni@smoe.org >Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 6:52:30 AM >Subject: Re: Tori Anos > > >I was going by what Madonna herself said, that she wore out Court&Spark playing it in high school, and though it is true Tori has covered Joni, several published sources and my own ear say she owes more to Laura Nyro for her style than she does to Joni. >Paul Ivice ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 21:12:14 +0000 From: "Susan E. McNamara" Subject: RE: Joni Mitchell Complete So Far Yes, now that she's cancelled the ballet, she should have some time on her hands for something new!!! :-) Susan Tierney McNamara email: sem8@cornell.edu - -----Original Message----- From: Laura Stanley [mailto:sillyseabird7@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 4:09 PM To: joni@smoe.org Cc: Susan E. McNamara Subject: Joni Mitchell Complete So Far Hi Sue, I've been playing the songs on flute. Grateful for the hard back nature of the book that stays on the stand so nicely. On guitar, Cactus Tree yesterday and Harry's House today. For The Roses several days ago. Finger picking is fun on these. I envy my son who is a freshman in college and has a copy. I wish I'd had a copy back then. Of course it wouldn't have been as complete. I like it that she says "so far" in the title. Awesome to have her album Shine in this book! She's got 2007 under Big Yellow Taxi. I had to stop and think... has it really been 7 years since her album Shine was release. Sure enough, September 24, 2007. Wonder what Joni has in the oven now? We are old on this list because young kids would never have let. 7 years go by without asking and asking for MORE. "Please sir, I want more." It would be nice. Love, Laura Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 17, 2014, at 11:12 AM, owner-joni-digest@smoe.org (JMDL Digest) wrote: > > > JMDL Digest Monday, March 17 2014 Volume 2014 : Number 430 > > > > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Joni Mitchell Complete So Far ["Susan E. McNamara" ] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 16:11:53 +0000 > From: "Susan E. McNamara" > Subject: Joni Mitchell Complete So Far > > I have to say that I am enjoying going through the new Complete So Far > tab book by Joel Bernstein. I think for anyone who is a student of > Joni's alternate tuning method, this is a good companion to the many > EXCELLENT tabs at the Joni Mitchell guitar and piano site. I decided > I would learn a couple of songs that I hadn't played before, including > Nathan LaFraneer and the Circle Game (can you believe it!). Although > there were a couple of chord shapes here and there I didn't agree > with, overall I feel that by learning the songs off these sheets, I was able to play the songs the way Joni wrote them. > Really fun songs to play too. The lyrics in Nathan LaFraneer are > really thrilling me ... through the tunnel tiled and turning ... into > daylight ... I am escaping ... love it!! > > Also, the tuning list that he has at the beginning of the book is > arranged by the tuning key, which is fine, but I much prefer the > databases choice of "family of tunings" as Joni calls them, or generic > tuning, which eliminated the lowest string and is based in Joni's number system. > > Well, I'm hoping that after some more in depth perusing I'll be able > to write a more comprehensive review, but if others are using the > book, I'd love to hear what you think of it. > > Sue > > Susan Tierney McNamara > Prospect Research Officer > Office of Prospect Development > Alumni Affairs and Development > Cornell University > 349L, 130 Seneca Place > Ithaca, NY 14850 > phone: 607-255-3871 > fax: 607-254-7166 > email: sem8@cornell.edu > > ------------------------------ > > End of JMDL Digest V2014 #430 > ***************************** > > ------- > To post messages to the list,sendtojoni@smoe.org. > Unsubscribe by clicking here: > mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe > ------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 12:53:30 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Tori Amos, not Anos It passed right through the sphincter of our servers, Catherine. As far as comparing these artists, or saying who influenced who, unless you are existing in a vaccuum, you're going to be influenced by everything, either in a good way (Ooh, I wanna sound like that) or not (yuck, I never want to sound like that). Just to expand on a previous comment, Tori has released her covers of ACOY and Circle Game, and referenced BSN in concert as an intro to other tunes. Nearly every singer-songwriter of any genre is aware of Joni's work, even Taylor Swift (the threadstarter!) I always found it easier to compare Rickie Lee with Laura, but not in a copycat way. I've heard bits and pieces of other artists that sound Joni-like, but not one who makes me feel that consistently. Bob NP: Against Me!, "Unconditional Love" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 04:08:49 -0400 From: Sally Subject: Re: Tori Anos Madonna??? :0 I'm not seeing that. As far as who Joni has directly influenced, it might be a better idea to consider who she 'stimulated' and in that regard, the list is endless. Tori covers Joni regularly. I've read countless women who mention her as an influence, Stevie Nicks comes to mind immediately. I think it's vast. I have always imagined all of the artists that we think of as brilliant, spinning the latest Joni release and being blown away by it. It's like Dylan...frankly who has his music not touched and changed. I think Joni is the same...pivotal, essential, definitive. Sent from Confunction Junction on my iPhone > On Mar 18, 2014, at 3:49 AM, Paul wrote: > > Joe wrote that the satire piece sounded more like Tori Amos than Joni, but if it's more Tori than Joni, it is really more Laura Nyro than Joni. > Laura Nyro had more success as a songwriter for other singers than did Joni, who had more success than Laura as a performer. > However, it may be a tossup as to which of them has a longer or more successful line of female singers songwriters they influenced. > Laura's line includes Amos, Fiona Apple, Rickie Lee Jones and, according to some reports, Nora Jones among others. > Other than Madonna, who else would be in Joni's line? > > Paul Ivice > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 22:32:35 -0400 From: Richard Flynn Subject: Re: Recurring hi rez thread At HD tracks? Richard Flynn Professor of Literature Georgia Southern University https://sites.google.com/a/georgiasouthern.edu/rflynn http://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RichardFlynn > On Mar 19, 2014, at 10:24 PM, jlhommedieu@insight.rr.com wrote: > > Mini review of Hejira in 96/24: it is worth the money. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 23:35:47 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Complete So Far Jonilistas, I've finally gotten a chance to look over the new songbook, and a lot of what I'll say won't be interesting to the non-musicians on the list, so feel free to skip past all this! While I appreciate the fact that the book has Joni's and Joel's input, and a nice photo section, it's kind of a letdown. I had high hopes for this book. When I was doing the transcriptions for JM.com, as dead certain as I was about a particular tuning or note or guitar shape, I couldn't be 100% positive that it was correct. It sounded correct to my ears, but unfortunately I didn't have Joni or Joel on speed dial to tell me if I was correct or not. But hearing about this book kind of got me excited. I felt that finally I didn't have to question my own transcriptions because we have the source's input. Joel has known Joni for years longer than I've been alive, and I know that he kept notes over the years of her tunings and chord shapes. And who better to have apart of this project than someone who's been there all along? But at some point with these transcriptions, there began a disconnect of sorts. Transcribers are a talented bunch. They love music so much that they want to learn how to play a particular song. Some are so talented at it that they go pro and do it for a living. I never considered myself talented enough to make a career out of it. But transcribers have this tendency to take a standard approach to a song. And that's fine because 9 songs out of 10 these days are written in standard tuning, and they're played in a standard way. But we all know that Joni's guitar style is definitely non-standard. And for an "end-all-be-all" guitar songbook to be released, the input of a non-standard transcriber is key. And that's where my main issue with this songbook lies. Sue, Marian, Howard and I all understand Joni's guitar style. We understand her tunings and we understand her chords. And from studying this book I notice this disconnect. There are tunings and chords in the book that are just simply wrong. For instance, this prevalent Open E tuning on songs like "Chelsea Morning." When Joni performed it on the Dick Cavett Show, she tuned to Open D and then used a capo on the 2nd fret. While the open chord is correct either way, it's not how she played it. Open E is kind of the bane of my guitar existence. It's a dangerous tuning not just for the strings but also the construction of the guitar. Likewise, the tuning for "In France They Kiss on Main Street" is EBF#ABE. It's going to take some balls to tune a guitar that high. Also, they say the opening chord for "Borderline" is an overhand barre. Again, if you're familiar with her guitar style, with the exception of two songs, that's not how she plays it. And input from someone familiar with her tunings would know this. And that is my main issue with the book. Before going to print it really needed someone (like me!) to go over everything to make sure these mistakes were corrected. Generally speaking, it's really nicely done. From what I've been studying, there's really very little to complain about. But I do want to mention that some songbooks in the past, notably the Mingus and Hits & Misses songbooks are exceptionally detailed (one of these days I'm going to learn how to read piano music and play "Sweet Sucker Dance"), and I was certainly hoping for the level of detail those books had in this book. I hope, eventually someday, there will be a complete book done with the tablature for both guitar and dulcimer as well as all of the piano songs. When that happens I'd be happy to give it my stamp of approval, but until then... I'm supporting the transcriptions that I and others have done that are posted on JM.com. While it is nice to have a hardbound book with a nice photo section and 90% correct tunings and chords, I can't say that I didn't learn anything new from the book that I didn't already learn from the posted transcriptions. A couple of other things though... A minor typo, but they have the header on "Blue Motel Room" as "Blue Hotel Room." The introduction tab for it looks like it got lost along the way a bit as several of those notes are wrong. The "middle 8" bit seems more like an interpretation than a transcription. I played along with it and again, it isn't correct. "Talk to Me": the tuning isn't right which leads to chord shapes that also aren't correct. There are also important considerations that aren't mentioned, like 12-string guitars, as I noticed in the Complete songbook that came out several years ago as well. Thankfully though, at least, they made mention (albeit, not exactly clear) of the Nashville guitar strings on "A Bird That Whistles." They say they're tuned an octave higher which is true but an unwound set from a 12-string package is necessary to get the octaves right. "Night Ride Home": tuning is correct but they have the chords wrong. "Passion Play" kind of hurts my brain because the tuning is wrong and to make up for it they have a single fretted note which gives it the right open chord (they have it in open D and then 002000, making it DAEF#AD, which is the right tuning). - -Mark ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2014 #96 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here:mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe